Aware Civil Suit - an opportunity to clear the air.

[SIFU]

So you are an authority on anal sex I presume?

Originally Posted by Boliao
Why? I know 90% of the girls finds anal sex painful and only sick guys with twisted mind will want to hurt the woman they love.


He qualifies maybe becos he is both the arseR and arseE

 

[Harry Lee]

Scroobal....have you gone over to the dark gay side?
You forgot who is the most powerful gay of this land?

 

[annexa]

My stand is clear. I don't care whether a person is homo or not. As long as this person respect my sexual orientation and not attempt to influence me.

I cannot tolerate religious fundies who try to force THEIR religion and values down my throat even when I very much leave them alone and not question their faith after they do so much damage slandering mine.

In the war of fundies against homos, I stand against idiots trying to make the world HOMOgenous by saying they are right.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Food for thought perhaps?

67) an observer on TOC April 27th, 2009 12.16 pm I’m not a learned constitutional lawyer like Thio Li Ann, but here’s some food for thought. The Christian lawyers among you can feel free to rebut where necessary, but do mind this is a forum for public consumption.

In Singapore, we do protect the right to profess, practice and propagate your religion. This is under Art 15(1) of the Singapore Constitution. But this right is heavily qualified in Art 15(3): this right does NOT authorise any act contrary to any law on public order (among others). Which means religious activities in Singapore are constrained by law, so as to maintain public order. This can be through the Sedition Act, the Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act (MRHA) and the Societies Act (among others).

How have the courts interpreted the right to religion? Ex-Chief Justice Yong ruled, in a landmark 1994 case, that “the sovereignty, integrity and unity of Singapore are undoubtedly the paramount mandate of the Constitution. Anything, including religious beliefs and practices, which tend to run counter to these objectives must be restrained” .
This was re the deregistration of Jehovahs Witnesses, as well as the blanket ban on their publications (much like the recent banning of seditious Chick tracts).

The Hon CJ’ s ruling must be right. Singapore is multi racial and multi religious. We have balanced these competing tensions for so long in a spirit of tolerance and live-and-let-live. If COOS irresponsibly urges its supporters to reshape public policy or the civil law, which affects all Singaporeans, into the image of its holy texts and world view, then naturally, won’t all other religions be provoked and feel disaffected? Not to mention the non-religious who don’t believe in the bible?

Here are some nuggets from the Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act:

s8.(1) and (2): The Minister may make a restraining order against any priest, monk, pastor, imam, elder, office-bearer or any other person of authority in any religious group or institution or any member thereof , if the Minister is satisfied that that person has committed or is attempting to commit any of the following acts. These include:
(a) causing feelings of enmity, hatred, ill-will or hostility between different religious groups;
(b) carrying out activities to promote a political cause, or a cause of any political party while, or under the guise of, propagating or practising any religious belief;
(c) carrying out subversive activities under the guise of propagating or practising any religious belief; or
(d) exciting disaffection against the President or the Government while, or under the guise of, propagating or practising any religious belief.

As well as the Sedition Act, s3(1):

A seditious tendency is a tendency:
(b) to excite the citizens of Singapore or the residents in Singapore to attempt to procure in Singapore, the alteration, otherwise than by lawful means, of any matter as by law established;
(d) to raise discontent or disaffection amongst the citizens of Singapore or the residents in Singapore;
(e) to promote feelings of ill-will and hostility between different races or classes of the population of Singapore.

I kind of agree with this as I m sure Thio would have prepared for that and as a senior lawyer, she is not easy to deal with, whether in or outside the courtroom.

I rather Thio not given the pleasure of winning a courtroom battle that would give her inflated ego even more boast.

If she could organised such a takeover, i m sure she is ready for any aftermath battles.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

More food for thought perhaps?

164) gemami on TOC April 28th, 2009 3.16 pm I learnt one valuable lesson during my time here in TOC. That sometimes when you think you doing someone a favor by speaking up for him, you are actually doing him more harm than good. I learnt this from the liaison officer.

I think the biggest flaw in the argument for the old guards is the reference to the new exco as the Christians that they are. This is made worse by the connection made between their Christian background and the subject on homosexuality. And the new exco will happily engage this end because the majority is more straight, in physical attributes and thinking, than anyone care to admit.

The pro-Old Guards camp would have presented a stronger case if it is able to strip away these allegations, no matter how true they may be, and focus on the action of the individuals that make up the exco, and the manner of their takeover.

Consider this, if this new exco are not Christians and are acceptable of homosexuals for who they are, and they are agreeable to the need to be inclusively inclusive, then what can the old guards fault them with?

One thing is most certain. Even if we decide to be nice and not call them liars, we cannot, by any account, deny the fact that they have not been truthful, all the same.

Josie could be telling the truth when she said that it was not a planned takeover. She wasn’t the planner and this could be true. Maybe it is also true that she was the eleventh hour replacement, as dictated by the puppet master Thio, because I believe they did not expect Claire Nazar to walk out suddenly. It could also be true that Josie did not knew Maureen before the AGM election but she did not say if she knew the other 7 elected into the new exco. There were nine of them including herself.

So you see, she could be telling the truth all along. Unfortunately, she is also hiding the other truths which when come into the light will shame her and her team for who they actually are. The other truths like what the grand old Puppet Master are spewing.

Where and what am I driving at, you ask?

It’s plain and simple isn’t it? Can we continue to believe and support anyone who is untrue to herself? Never mind what they stand for or hope to stand for. Can we entrust our welfare into their hands? These people may not be lying, as presented above, but can the same be said that they are telling the truth? Anyone who hides the truth has a hidden agenda which needs jealous protection until the right time to reveal it.

Over to you Puppet Master Thio. You seem to hold all the answers

I kind of agree with this as I m sure Thio would have prepared for that and as a senior lawyer, she is not easy to deal with, whether in or outside the courtroom.

I rather Thio not given the pleasure of winning a courtroom battle that would give her inflated ego even more boast.

If she could organised such a takeover, i m sure she is ready for any aftermath battles.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

And for the piece de resistance how about this one?... tinker tailor soldier spy anyone?:D

183) Orchid on TOC April 28th, 2009 4.59 pm #163 Wow, Gemami, you can almost speak my mind now.

“The pro-Old Guards camp would have presented a stronger case if it is able to strip away these allegations, no matter how true they may be, and focus on the action of the individuals that make up the exco, and the manner of their takeover.”

I agree fully. That’s why I refrain from making comments on those two topics which were used by the mastermind to incite emotions.

The only thing I think differently from you is that the Puppet Master or mastermind is not Thio. She’s too childish in the speech she gave at the press conference - like a ‘lau huan tong’. Which lawyer, in the right mind would say that being touted as the organiser of an orchestrated, planned takeover is flattering.

Examine the following excerpt from their speech, and you’ll realise that she really felt so flattered that she contradicted Josie’s denial, thus fully smashing Josie’s credibility.

“Q: But (was the leadership takeover) orchestrated, planned beforehand? Was she the organiser?
Aware president Josie Lau: I will place on record, no.
Dr Thio: No, no, it depends on what you mean by organiser.
Actually it’s kind of flattering, in a way… ”

So who is the real mastermind (if only one)?
- What do you think of this email:
“The number of members registered on Tuesday night is 13 out of 40 who turned up…”
Who was the sender reporting to?

Why is TSM pushed out to take the rap (although to her it’s an honour)?
I think part of the reason may be that her name appeared in the disclosed emails and also she enjoyed being in the limelight.
But the real reason -
Now, tell me, what do you think all educated women’s reaction would be if proven that a guy is behind all these to control women and a women’s association?

Yes, I’m beginning to pity Josie and Maureen at the way they were being made use of. But it’s their choice, isn’t it?

I kind of agree with this as I m sure Thio would have prepared for that and as a senior lawyer, she is not easy to deal with, whether in or outside the courtroom.

I rather Thio not given the pleasure of winning a courtroom battle that would give her inflated ego even more boast.

If she could organised such a takeover, i m sure she is ready for any aftermath battles.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Not really Bro...I can understand your appeal to the legalistic nail down the lie approach...however this matter appears to go beyond the rational black and white approach...perhaps a fine balance approach of keeping to one's core principles (inclusiveness and anti-discrimination) and yet assuaging the majority public's conservatism is key and in this regard Connie appears to have fired the right salvo...

April 28, 2009
AWARE SAGA
Restore reason, civility to debate

IN A climate of debate that has seen fear mongering, character assassination, heads of sub-committees sacked, employees fired, police called, votes of no confidence, churches weighing in and threats of violence, it is necessary to remind ourselves what being part of a civil society means.
A civil society is one where every citizen has an option to make her own life in a safe public sphere and where no one should be discriminated against or excluded because of her religion, class, race, sexuality, lifestyle, ideology or gender.

Given the political dominance of one party and Singapore's multicultural and multi-religious nature, groups like the Association of Women for Action and Research (Aware) are important for providing the expression of alternative views and hence for good governance.

The totality of Aware's work and the make-up of every executive committee (exco) since its formation are representative of a 'rainbow coalition'. However, and somewhat unfortunately, the current exco does not represent Singapore's racial and religious diversity. In that sense, one wonders to what degree it best represents civil society.

The second question is what are the tones and sensibilities of civil society? This is a far harder question to answer. But we have had clear, if unspoken, codes of conduct at Aware for many years. These codes have been replaced by mistrust, betrayal, misinformation and silence.

In this regard, character assassination of individuals shows the extent to which people will descend to sell their point of view. Misinformation about me is being circulated by text messages and the Internet that I have a homosexual brother and am working to turn Aware into a gay/lesbian organisation.

My maiden name is D'Cruz and my full married name is Thurairasingam and so Clarence Singam cannot be my brother (see http://sg.christianpost.com/dbase/society/1548/122336/3.htm ) .

I have emphasised that Aware will not be used as a platform for lesbian issues. I have stated categorically that Aware speaks for all women and we address issues of discrimination against all women. These are facts that can easily be verified. But facts are a casualty in this whole sad episode.

We must restore a sense of reason, civility and respect to a debate that is increasingly unproductive. This will surely be good, not just for Aware but for all women, families and Singaporeans.

In that sense, I am grateful for the statement by Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports, in yesterday's report, 'Keep religion above 'petty politics', says Vivian'.


Constance Singam (Mrs)

Probably right. One of my many whimsical moments.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Now compare Connie's letter above to Josie's disingenuous attempt at PR below - only Christian Right, Mary Whitehouse gang and gullible twits shall be fooled, hopefully

What being inclusive means

I REFER to yesterday's article, 'Keep religion above 'petty politics', says Vivian'.
The Association of Women for Action and Research (Aware) fully supports Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports Vivian Balakrishnan's advice that our internal disputes should be settled among members. We agree it is important to hear a diversity of views and to discuss these views in a civil manner.

Aware is a secular organisation and we welcome women of all races and religions to be members. Our members' beliefs and the recent high-profile disputes should not be exploited in the public arena to serve controversial agendas.

The extraordinary general meeting on May 2 is a forum for genuinely interested parties to address issues relating to Aware, its contribution to matters relating to all women and how this affects society in general.

Aware's principle of inclusiveness is framed by reference to the purposes and objectives of this women's organisation. For example, Aware is not directly concerned with the rights of consumers, investors or the environment.

What about the interests of lesbians or what some call 'sexual orientation' or 'sexuality' rights? It depends on what interest is at stake. For example, we do not think lesbians should be discriminated against in the workplace, either in terms of promotion or pay; like every woman, they deserve equality of opportunity. The only relevant consideration is merit.

There is a world of difference between fair employment rights and claims to 'same-sex marriage'.

As an advocacy group, Aware seeks to maintain its relevance by allocating its limited resources to tackling the most pressing issues of the day impacting our women across the spectrum of society.

It is not helpful to use slogans like 'inclusive' to force acceptance of controversial claims on all Aware members, as if that belief were a prerequisite for membership; it is not.

Aware would like to contribute to pluralistic Singapore by providing a forum to address issues specifically so we can understand exactly what issues are at stake in order for dialogue to be meaningful. Aware is tolerant and inclusive enough to allow its members to hold their views on matters of controversy.

Josie Lau (Ms)
President of Aware

Probably right. One of my many whimsical moments.

 

[Lee Hsien Tau]

Whatever is was, it is now Association of Women Against Rectal Entry. The Thiolibans have made sure of that.

 

[myfoot123]

In view of Thio Su Mien's rather startling revelation about the conduct of the sexual education program and the subsequent denial by the old guards at their press conference, there needs to be some clarity for the sake of the general public.

Thios's allegation on the old guard's sexuality programmes has finally faced its attack by MOE that the programmes are in line with MOE guidlines. Thus the allegations made by Thio Su Mien is not factual and deemed a lie since MOE said she did not get her fact right and tried to sensationalise the whole saga to garner for support. Thio, Josie & gang is likely to be defeated and face their doom in the coming EOGM. By voting Thio, Josie & gang out will ensure Singapore and its citizen achieve peace and harmony for our nation.

 

[londontrader]

Now compare Connie's letter above to Josie's disingenuous attempt at PR below - only Christian Right, Mary Whitehouse gang and gullible twits shall be fooled, hopefully

Is that the best Josie can come up with?
I think the consumer banking chaps at OCBC, UOB etc... will be very pleased if DBS continues her employment

 

[scroobal]

Many moons ago, someone told me (here comes the heresay bit that I infamous for) that Connie has sharp mind but was not ambitious. I heard that she was courted for political office but to found to be too rightetous. When asked if she was politically not astute. I was told that actually she was much more astute politically then many in public office. I can see that now clearly. Very good article and I noticed that she had latched on to the rainbow as well as taking the position that Viv B is in her court. If Viv B does not correct the position as some people felt that it meant differently on some issues, then she has made his position absolutely clear.

Josie in her last statement, is continuing on the path of dishonesty. She is now giving the impression that AWARE is going down the path of supporting mix marriages. She must think we are all dumb. The Government has not even endorsed gay rights let alone even contemplating same sex marriages. This is pretty shocking.

In AWARE press release on the dismissal of the AWARE the language used was pretty much incorrect.

It is an on-going saga of lies, falsehoods, ommisions and charcter assasination. The email clearly shows a planned takeover, its progress reported in other emails, the deception was clear when individuals intending to join AWARE was advised not to put the name of the person sending the email as an introducer. There was on other email to advise discretion when circulating emails of this nature.

Not really Bro...I can understand your appeal to the legalistic nail down the lie approach...however this matter appears to go beyond the rational black and white approach...perhaps a fine balance approach of keeping to one's core principles (inclusiveness and anti-discrimination) and yet assuaging the majority public's conservatism is key and in this regard Connie appears to have fired the right salvo...

April 28, 2009
AWARE SAGA
Restore reason, civility to debate

IN A climate of debate that has seen fear mongering, character assassination, heads of sub-committees sacked, employees fired, police called, votes of no confidence, churches weighing in and threats of violence, it is necessary to remind ourselves what being part of a civil society means.
A civil society is one where every citizen has an option to make her own life in a safe public sphere and where no one should be discriminated against or excluded because of her religion, class, race, sexuality, lifestyle, ideology or gender.

Given the political dominance of one party and Singapore's multicultural and multi-religious nature, groups like the Association of Women for Action and Research (Aware) are important for providing the expression of alternative views and hence for good governance.

The totality of Aware's work and the make-up of every executive committee (exco) since its formation are representative of a 'rainbow coalition'. However, and somewhat unfortunately, the current exco does not represent Singapore's racial and religious diversity. In that sense, one wonders to what degree it best represents civil society.

The second question is what are the tones and sensibilities of civil society? This is a far harder question to answer. But we have had clear, if unspoken, codes of conduct at Aware for many years. These codes have been replaced by mistrust, betrayal, misinformation and silence.

In this regard, character assassination of individuals shows the extent to which people will descend to sell their point of view. Misinformation about me is being circulated by text messages and the Internet that I have a homosexual brother and am working to turn Aware into a gay/lesbian organisation.

My maiden name is D'Cruz and my full married name is Thurairasingam and so Clarence Singam cannot be my brother (see http://sg.christianpost.com/dbase/society/1548/122336/3.htm ) .

I have emphasised that Aware will not be used as a platform for lesbian issues. I have stated categorically that Aware speaks for all women and we address issues of discrimination against all women. These are facts that can easily be verified. But facts are a casualty in this whole sad episode.

We must restore a sense of reason, civility and respect to a debate that is increasingly unproductive. This will surely be good, not just for Aware but for all women, families and Singaporeans.

In that sense, I am grateful for the statement by Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports, in yesterday's report, 'Keep religion above 'petty politics', says Vivian'.


Constance Singam (Mrs)

 

[scroobal]

When you mix with a select group and follow a particular dogma, you become blind to the world. She was adjusticator for the World Bank and what is she doing now. She was once the Dean of the Law Faculty and now look what is she resorting to.

Religion sets values that are important to man. But sometimes it does things to people that one can never comprehend. I asked a forummer here why he thought that AWARE was a gay front and he chose the words "gay front". He could not answer. This forummer is pretty much decent and fair generally but his religious belief did not stop him smearing people wrongly. Even Thio and Josie did not label AWARE a "gay front".

AWARE is basically against gender discrimination. The operating word is "discrimination" but the mission is to safeguard women and ensure equality. Their premise for existence will be compromisedfall, if they show signs of discriminating others not directly related to their cause and that includes lesbians. It does not mean that they are bastions for gay rights and post for gay agenda. I even heard comments that the number of single women associated with AWARE is a dead giveaway. I wonder how is one to place Thio junior who is 40 and remains single.

Thios's allegation on the old guard's sexuality programmes has finally faced its attack by MOE that the programmes are in line with MOE guidlines. Thus the allegations made by Thio Su Mien is not factual and deemed a lie since MOE said she did not get her fact right and tried to sensationalise the whole saga to garner for support. Thio, Josie & gang is likely to be defeated and face their doom in the coming EOGM. By voting Thio, Josie & gang out will ensure Singapore and its citizen achieve peace and harmony for our nation.

 

[londontrader]

I had the same experience with usually sensible Singaporeans who panic at the mere mention of the word "homo". My concern is that Josie & Co have plugged into that fear by reaching out through the network of churches. You seem very well informed (hearsay or otherwise) about the situation. Any inkling of whether Conny Singam has the tide in her favour?

Religion sets values that are important to man. But sometimes it does things to people that one can never comprehend. I asked a forummer here why he thought that AWARE was a gay front and he chose the words "gay front". He could not answer. This forummer is pretty much decent and fair generally but his religious belief did not stop him smearing people wrongly.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

It appears to be getting worse by the day...

45) cat's poop on TOC April 29th, 2009 12.56 pm “43) JL on April 29th, 2009 12.46 pm

i have just learnt that the new exco has the AWARE EGM venue moved to EXPO. incidentally, next to “Transformation Conference 2009″ co-organized by COOS and 40 other Churches.

it makes me really very very sad. so much for AWARE belongs to you.

there is a chinese saying - 贏了還慘過輸，meaning it’s worse off by winning.

if the new exco really wins in the coming EGM, i cannot imagine the damage to the Christian faith.”

no wonder someone said there’ll be bus transportation provided by COOS. 1 stone 2 birds!

It is an on-going saga of lies, falsehoods, ommisions and charcter assasination. The email clearly shows a planned takeover, its progress reported in other emails, the deception was clear when individuals intending to join AWARE was advised not to put the name of the person sending the email as an introducer. There was on other email to advise discretion when circulating emails of this nature.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I wonder whether Li-Ann shall throw her hat in for another NMP term after this saga, btw I thought she was quite a cutie when she was at Oxford, but that was many moons ago?:p

48) mice is nice on TOC April 29th, 2009 2.55 am Dr Thio was acting like CSJ? lol.

ah, now we all know where her “buttons” are (LBGT issues)? o.O

i think Dr Thio need to keep her paranoia in check, just like people with an irrational fear of darkness, clowns, etc. some fears do have overwhelming influence, that some cannot control.

a visit to IMH maybe? -.-”

well educated not = clever, rich not always = well educated

*no one’s perfect.

When you mix with a select group and follow a particular dogma, you become blind to the world. She was adjusticator for the World Bank and what is she doing now. She was once the Dean of the Law Faculty and now look what is she resorting to.

Religion sets values that are important to man. But sometimes it does things to people that one can never comprehend. I wonder how is one to place Thio junior who is 40 and remains single.