Aware Ambushed & they had no clue

[bellepepper02]

The old guard was just too complacent...look at Connie turning up late for the AGM and wondering who were all the new members...I mean what kind of a 'ship' was she running?...Not surprised as I have seen this sort of show at my own parish...old priest with his gang in cahoots and control of the parish for donkey years...then old priest becomes ill and incapacitated new young priest takes control along with his new gang who oust the old complacent gang...they did not know what hit them before it was too late:p

This is not the same sort of situation. AWARE leadership has been continuously changing over the years. Constance may not be young but she hadn't been in the AWARE exco for more than a decade since she was first its president. She took over for two years recently only because it is difficult for AWARE to find leaders who can spare the time because of work commitments. This takeover happened because a group from the outside without any feminist interests (in fact, anti-feminist interests) wanted to take over a feminist organization. They succeeded because as an NGO, AWARE has always been an open and inclusive organization.

Let's not find fault with and belittle people who are sincerely trying their best. And ignore the obnoxious ethics of what has just taken place and excuse the crooks.

AWARE people may not turn up by the 100s for AGMs, and they certainly aren't the type who look over their shoulder at who's gunning for them. Maybe they don't run a "tight ship". But how is it that these women, strapped with such meagre resources, have had such huge successes in doing advocacy work for women? They're the most active civil society organization around. They have hundreds of volunteers providing counselling services, (wo)manning helplines, generally assisting women in trouble, and providing sex education to schools.

 

[bellepepper02]

Saw this in AWARE Facebook Group:

Inspired by the 1984 seminar “Women’s Choices, Women’s Lives” where a panel of women spoke to an audience of about fifty people, a few good women got together and started AWARE. Thanks to the solid, consistent pursuit of AWARE’s vision for gender equality and to the unswerving dedication of its members and volunteers, the organisation is recognized as a significant contributor to the Singaporean community on gender issues.

Over the years AWARE has focused on research & advocacy aimed at identifying and researching areas for improvement in gender equality. AWARE has released over twenty research publications, including most recently The Research Study on Workplace Sexual Harassment (2008), United Nations CEDAW Shadow Report (2007), Small Steps, Giant Leaps (2007), Foreign Bride Report: Beyond Happily Ever After (2006), Beyond Borders: Sex with Children (2006), Beyond Babies: National Duty or Personal Choice? (2004), Beyond Youth: Women Growing Older and Poorer (2004), Remaking Singapore: Views of Half the Nation (2002), Rape: Weapon of Terror (2000), as well as the annual Awareness Journal: Collection of Essays, Poetry and Interviews. The AWARE office also features a comprehensive library of resources dealing with women’s issues which is open to members and researchers by appointment.

In addition, AWARE is committed to public education. Through the AWARE Training Institute, campaigns, and seminars and forums, AWARE aims to support women to reach their highest potential. Topics of focus have consisted of body image, gender stereotypes, and violence against women. Recent programmes include Comprehensive Sexuality Education, Financial Intelligence Training, the White Ribbon Campaign, as well as ongoing lectures at educational institutions.

AWARE has also consistently offered direct services to Singaporean women in need, which include the Helpline, Befrienders Programme, Legal Clinic, and Counselling Services. AWARE has helped an average of two-hundred women per month with these services.

AWARE’s valuable work over the past two decades has contributed to the

* 2007 revisions to the penal code, including issues of marital rape
* 2007 United Nations recognition of how Singapore can become more compliant with the Convention to Eliminate all forms of Discrimination Against Women
* 2006 development of legal reforms that addressed gaps in Singapore’s legislation on trafficking (in collaboration with NUS Pro Bono Law Society)
* 2005 equalisation of benefits in the current medical scheme in the Civil Service for male and female officers
* 2004 constitutional amendment to accord the same citizenship rights to the children of Singaporean women as for Singaporean men
* 2004 government acknowledgement that men and women play equal roles as joint “heads of household”
* 2004 nomination of Braema Mathiaparanam as Nominated Member of Parliament (appointed)
* 2003 policy change lifting the quota restricting female intake in the Medical Faculty at NUS
* 1999 policy to allow women to sponsor their foreign spouses for citizenship or PR status
* 1996 revisions to the Women’s Charter to provide more protection for victims of domestic violence
* 1994 MOE decision to offer “Life Skills for Boys and Girls” instead of the previous arrangement which required girls to take home economics and boys to take technical studies
* 1994 change to the way police handle rape cases as a result of the Rape Study Committee’s “Proposal for standardising and enhancing police procedures in rape management”
* 1989 decision of the Advertising Standards Authority of Singapore (ASAS) to develop new guidelines to curb discrimination in advertisements

AWARE has a proven twenty-two year track record as an advocate of women’s rights dedicated to promoting gender equality and inspiring every woman to reach her full potential.

 

[myfoot123]

Ignoring questions, shying away from media and dissappearing themselves from public scrutiny show they have a lot to hide?

 

[scroobal]

Things like this are never reported in the local media. They are more interested in writing things about people's personal attributes including culinary favourites, hobbies etc.

Really substantial stuff. Good work.

Saw this in AWARE Facebook Group:

Inspired by the 1984 seminar “Women’s Choices, Women’s Lives” where a panel of women spoke to an audience of about fifty people, a few good women got together and started AWARE. Thanks to the solid, consistent pursuit of AWARE’s vision for gender equality and to the unswerving dedication of its members and volunteers, the organisation is recognized as a significant contributor to the Singaporean community on gender issues.

Over the years AWARE has focused on research & advocacy aimed at identifying and researching areas for improvement in gender equality. AWARE has released over twenty research publications, including most recently The Research Study on Workplace Sexual Harassment (2008), United Nations CEDAW Shadow Report (2007), Small Steps, Giant Leaps (2007), Foreign Bride Report: Beyond Happily Ever After (2006), Beyond Borders: Sex with Children (2006), Beyond Babies: National Duty or Personal Choice? (2004), Beyond Youth: Women Growing Older and Poorer (2004), Remaking Singapore: Views of Half the Nation (2002), Rape: Weapon of Terror (2000), as well as the annual Awareness Journal: Collection of Essays, Poetry and Interviews. The AWARE office also features a comprehensive library of resources dealing with women’s issues which is open to members and researchers by appointment.

In addition, AWARE is committed to public education. Through the AWARE Training Institute, campaigns, and seminars and forums, AWARE aims to support women to reach their highest potential. Topics of focus have consisted of body image, gender stereotypes, and violence against women. Recent programmes include Comprehensive Sexuality Education, Financial Intelligence Training, the White Ribbon Campaign, as well as ongoing lectures at educational institutions.

AWARE has also consistently offered direct services to Singaporean women in need, which include the Helpline, Befrienders Programme, Legal Clinic, and Counselling Services. AWARE has helped an average of two-hundred women per month with these services.

AWARE’s valuable work over the past two decades has contributed to the

* 2007 revisions to the penal code, including issues of marital rape
* 2007 United Nations recognition of how Singapore can become more compliant with the Convention to Eliminate all forms of Discrimination Against Women
* 2006 development of legal reforms that addressed gaps in Singapore’s legislation on trafficking (in collaboration with NUS Pro Bono Law Society)
* 2005 equalisation of benefits in the current medical scheme in the Civil Service for male and female officers
* 2004 constitutional amendment to accord the same citizenship rights to the children of Singaporean women as for Singaporean men
* 2004 government acknowledgement that men and women play equal roles as joint “heads of household”
* 2004 nomination of Braema Mathiaparanam as Nominated Member of Parliament (appointed)
* 2003 policy change lifting the quota restricting female intake in the Medical Faculty at NUS
* 1999 policy to allow women to sponsor their foreign spouses for citizenship or PR status
* 1996 revisions to the Women’s Charter to provide more protection for victims of domestic violence
* 1994 MOE decision to offer “Life Skills for Boys and Girls” instead of the previous arrangement which required girls to take home economics and boys to take technical studies
* 1994 change to the way police handle rape cases as a result of the Rape Study Committee’s “Proposal for standardising and enhancing police procedures in rape management”
* 1989 decision of the Advertising Standards Authority of Singapore (ASAS) to develop new guidelines to curb discrimination in advertisements

AWARE has a proven twenty-two year track record as an advocate of women’s rights dedicated to promoting gender equality and inspiring every woman to reach her full potential.

 

[shOUTloud]

You underestimate the power of the growing Singgie x'tian right at your own peril

I would propose the following change to your statement.

"You underestimate the growing power of Singgie x'tian at your own peril". I am quite convinced that the growth in Christians in Singapore ranged from slowing down to actually declining. This is a natural progress when the other groups (ie Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Muslims etc) are getting organised as well.

The growing power of the x'tians derive from their growth in the past 2-3 decades and these professionals are in their economic prime at the moment. The moment will pass.

 

[SneeringTree]

I guess AWARE will now hold their Exco meetings on Sunday at their church in Queenstown...luckily it is not too far from their Dover Road premise.

 

[scroobal]

I would propose the following change to your statement.

"You underestimate the growing power of Singgie x'tian at your own peril". I am quite convinced that the growth in Christians in Singapore ranged from slowing down to actually declining. This is a natural progress when the other groups (ie Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Muslims etc) are getting organised as well.

The growing power of the x'tians derive from their growth in the past 2-3 decades and these professionals are in their economic prime at the moment. The moment will pass.

I don't think you realise the importance of this religious shift. Its more politically advantageous to the current regime. It not all of christianity. They catholics, Anglicans, Methodists are out of the equation as they tend to be rather independent in thought. Its the neo presbyterians such as CHC and Rock that is encouraged. This is the lot that have penetrated the higher levels of Admin service with one PM notable very active in it.

This not related to Tay Eng Soon and Augustine Tan era whose term in political office was met with less than keen interest for their biblical ways. Augustine Tan was actually sent packing, back to academia for his christian zeal.

The principles are akin to the bible belt, where the democrats and the republicans lobby the pastors rather than the sheep. The shepherd is the key and it does not matter what he preaches just that he does not report to a superior outside these shores.

No socological studies are encouraged along these lines. The obvious results are the Chinese moving away from the traditonal clans. The Clans know this and the Hougang temple incident with Ho Peng Kee is because of his asscoiation with these churches.

When Rock went into a corporate venture with Capitalands, its was not a surprise to observers. Do expect CHC to do something similar.

The moment will not pass.

 

[shOUTloud]

Todayonline - 18 April 2009

Job safe, but future of Aware chief will be known on May 2

Alicia Wong and Loh Chee Kong

[email protected]


MS JOSIE Lau’s fate as a vice-president at DBS Bank appears settled for now, after a lengthy meeting with her employer on Friday night — but the future of the Association of Women for Action and Research’s (Aware) new president, and her executive committee, will yet be determined on May 2.

The date for an extraordinary general meeting of the women’s advocacy group has finally been set to address the rift between the old guard and the new leadership.

This came even as Ms Lau and her employer were locked in a meeting on Friday from 5pm to past 9pm, to settle their own differences after DBS had publicly rebuked her for going against its wishes to take up the top Aware post.

As of press time, both parties were tight-lipped on the discussions — but Aware vice-president Charlotte Lim told Today that Ms Lau,who heads DBS’ consumer banking group cards and unsecured loans division, had said the situation with her employers was “business as usual”.

The pair met up with some exco members for last-minute drinks at about 10pm, and those present said Ms Lau was “cheerful and relieved” after her meeting.

She was also touched by the “outpouring of support and the well-wishes from colleagues and members of the public”, said Ms Lim.“People were giving her the thumbs-up all the time. So that encouraged her a lot.”

While Ms Lau and DBS appear to have come to an understanding for now, this was far from the case with the opposing groups in Aware, who locked horns in a strong exchange of words on Friday.

It started with a press statement fromMs Lau on behalf of the exco at 1.30pm, asking “why have some people cast aspersions on our good intentions?” Turning the tables on Aware’s long-time members, she asked if “the old guard harbour an alternative agenda”.

“If so, they should disclose their motives and objectives fully and honestly,” she said, noting that 120 of the 160 signatories to a requisition for an EGM seemed to have been recruited very recently “to swell support for the requisition”.

The new exco itself had been the target of similar allegations, after nine new faces were voted to the 12-member committee at the March 28 annual general meeting.

In a retort sent to the media at about 7.40pm, the old guard said they were “astonished”. “Our motives and objectives have been fully visible for nearly 25 years in (Aware’s) policies and programmes,” they said in the statement. “What do you (the new exco) want to do in Aware that is fundamentally different from what was already being done? ... Why the need to muscle your way into the exco? Such tactics suggest a hidden agenda that may be contrary to the stance and ethos of Aware.”

In her statement, Ms Lau sought to clarify events during the controversial March 28 election. Since the AGM, a point of distress among the older members has been that nine of the exco positions were filled by new faces.
But Ms Lau noted that Ms Claire Nazar, who had been nominated by outgoing president Constance Singam as her successor, had in turn nominated — with the old guard’s support — six of the 11 members who now make up the exco. When contacted, Ms Nazar told Today the six included two older members and Ms Lau.

The new team’s two-week silence on their intentions also worried the old guard.

Ms Lau explained, “the new exco members were eager to start work” but Mrs Nazar “kept re-scheduling” their first meeting. Then, one day after they finally met on April 7, Ms Nazar “abruptly and unilaterally resigned by email”.
Since Aware’s constitution required seven days’ notice to call exco meetings, the committee met on April 15 and issued a statement straight after, said Ms Lau, who was disappointed that the call for the EGM was issued a day earlier.
The old guard, however, have their own beef with recent events. For instance, past Aware president Braema Mathi had her term ended as chair of the subcommittee on the Convention for the Elimination of all forms of Discrimination Against Women. She told Today she was “unceremoniously dumped” without reason given.

In the statement, the older members also “noted with alarm” how Ms Lau had disregarded the DBS staff code twice, and drew attention to reports that her division was reportedly in charge of recommending a charity for DBS to support late last year — which was the “evangelical Christian organisation Focus on the Family”.

 

[shOUTloud]

The moment will not pass.

I would beg to differ but we would really know in 10-20 years' time.

 

[scroobal]

I would beg to differ but we would really know in 10-20 years' time.

Agree.....

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Perhaps another fair reasonable objective take on this AWARE saga? Btw I am keen to hear from Dr Kanwaljit Soin and Claire Chiang on this matter as both were former AWARE presidents

THE BUZZ
Aware: Too much shrieking, too little explaining
By Tan Mae Lynn

April 20, 2009


I AM woman, hear my sisters shriek. Apologies to Helen Reddy, who in the '70s, sang the inspirational and empowering line: 'I am woman, hear me roar.'


TNP FILE PICTURE
Sadly, what has been happening at the Association of Women for Action and Research (Aware) has been neither inspirational nor empowering.

It has been loud, yes, and shrill rather than resounding - with all the dignity and decorum of a cat fight.

Ladies, I am embarrassed.

And I say this of the actions of both the incoming team as well as the old guard.

It is doubtful if the events of the past couple of weeks, following the association's elections, reflect its founding goals of achieving social equality.

Both the power-grabbers and the old guard are to blame for how ugly things have become, and the less than glowing coverage Aware has attracted in the media.

First, how could the old guard not have suspected anything when their membership numbers spiked over the last few months?

Indeed, it appeared that they had not found anything amiss until one of their own was badly defeated in the election for vice-president.

It was only then that they checked and realised that an overwhelming majority of those who had turned up to vote were new members.

The old guard should reflect on whether they have been receptive to fresh ideas and open to thoughts of rejuvenating the organisation - and whether they were even (pardon the pun) aware of what was going on around them.

One cannot help but suspect they may have operated like an elitist 'old girls' club.

On the other side is a group that appears like a bunch of bullies in its bid for power.

Did they think they could grab power without having to deal with public scrutiny?

They certainly have some explaining to do, after having made such a move at a well-known, well-established organisation.

But they have said little. They haven't really opened up to queries and their two statements have not exactly cleared the air.

What they stand for

Surely, if they choose to take over such a high-profile organisation in such a dramatic fashion, they must be prepared to talk about who they are, what they stand for and how they plan to implement change.

As educated women, they should know that in any election regardless of scale, the candidates should make their views and commitment known.

In Aware's latest statement, its new president, Ms Josie Lau, asked: 'Why have some people cast aspersions on our good intentions?... Does the old guard harbour an alternative agenda? If so, they should disclose their motives and objectives fully and honestly.'

How ironic.

She and her team have not answered those questions themselves. The public have been kept in the dark about these 'good intentions'.

It would be naive to expect people to grant them full confidence without being fully informed.

I'm not a member of Aware and after this, I doubt I'll ever be one

This is not the same sort of situation. AWARE leadership has been continuously changing over the years. Constance may not be young but she hadn't been in the AWARE exco for more than a decade since she was first its president. She took over for two years recently only because it is difficult for AWARE to find leaders who can spare the time because of work commitments. This takeover happened because a group from the outside without any feminist interests (in fact, anti-feminist interests) wanted to take over a feminist organization. They succeeded because as an NGO, AWARE has always been an open and inclusive organization.

Let's not find fault with and belittle people who are sincerely trying their best. And ignore the obnoxious ethics of what has just taken place and excuse the crooks.

AWARE people may not turn up by the 100s for AGMs, and they certainly aren't the type who look over their shoulder at who's gunning for them. Maybe they don't run a "tight ship". But how is it that these women, strapped with such meagre resources, have had such huge successes in doing advocacy work for women? They're the most active civil society organization around. They have hundreds of volunteers providing counselling services, (wo)manning helplines, generally assisting women in trouble, and providing sex education to schools.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Look at generations y, z and beyond...

I would propose the following change to your statement.

"You underestimate the growing power of Singgie x'tian at your own peril". I am quite convinced that the growth in Christians in Singapore ranged from slowing down to actually declining. This is a natural progress when the other groups (ie Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Muslims etc) are getting organised as well.

The growing power of the x'tians derive from their growth in the past 2-3 decades and these professionals are in their economic prime at the moment. The moment will pass.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Yes and it maybe closer to the Leegime than some may like to think...much closer

I. Its the neo presbyterians such as CHC and Rock that is encouraged. This is the lot that have penetrated the higher levels of Admin service with one PM notable very active in it.

This not related to Tay Eng Soon and Augustine Tan era whose term in political office was met with less than keen interest for their biblical ways. Augustine Tan was actually sent packing, back to academia for his christian zeal.

The principles are akin to the bible belt, where the democrats and the republicans lobby the pastors rather than the sheep. The shepherd is the key and it does not matter what he preaches just that he does not report to a superior outside these shores.


When Rock went into a corporate venture with Capitalands, its was not a surprise to observers. Do expect CHC to do something similar.

The moment will not pass.

 

[halsey02]

Don't know what the heck is the bitching about AWARE, the old wives club?. Do we have an association that protect the rights of the men? in SINgapore from the women? Should name it ARISE!!!

 

[maja06]

Saw this in AWARE Facebook Group:

[snip]

Over the years AWARE has focused on research & advocacy aimed at
AWARE’s valuable work over the past two decades has contributed to the

* 2007 revisions to the penal code, including issues of marital rape
* 2007 United Nations recognition of how Singapore can become more compliant with the Convention to Eliminate all forms of Discrimination Against Women
* 2006 development of legal reforms that addressed gaps in Singapore’s legislation on trafficking (in collaboration with NUS Pro Bono Law Society)
* 2005 equalisation of benefits in the current medical scheme in the Civil Service for male and female officers
* 2004 constitutional amendment to accord the same citizenship rights to the children of Singaporean women as for Singaporean men
* 2004 government acknowledgement that men and women play equal roles as joint “heads of household”
* 2004 nomination of Braema Mathiaparanam as Nominated Member of Parliament (appointed)
* 2003 policy change lifting the quota restricting female intake in the Medical Faculty at NUS
* 1999 policy to allow women to sponsor their foreign spouses for citizenship or PR status
* 1996 revisions to the Women’s Charter to provide more protection for victims of domestic violence
* 1994 MOE decision to offer “Life Skills for Boys and Girls” instead of the previous arrangement which required girls to take home economics and boys to take technical studies
* 1994 change to the way police handle rape cases as a result of the Rape Study Committee’s “Proposal for standardising and enhancing police procedures in rape management”
* 1989 decision of the Advertising Standards Authority of Singapore (ASAS) to develop new guidelines to curb discrimination in advertisements

AWARE has a proven twenty-two year track record as an advocate of women’s rights dedicated to promoting gender equality and inspiring every woman to reach her full potential.

Thanks bellepepper for the info. It appears to be that homosexuality is only part of the conversation here; possibly the broader agenda is that of securing a(nother) sanctioned channel into policymaking.

Which is, of course, disturbing.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

From Wayang Party's Comments

Oh Tham Eng on Mon, 20th Apr 2009 10:06 am

WHAT AWARE SHOULD BE ALL ABOUT

Thanks, Alvin, for your post and question.

Read the report on page 6 of today’s TODAY tabloid. You can get a lot of good answers to your question. It is a report of her interview by CNA on Saturday and broadcast last night at 10:10PM. I had watched it.

I will be writing an open letter to the past president of AWARE Mdm Singam, to be cc to PM Lee Hsien Loong and his cabinet. Then you and concerned members of the public can be very clear about the real issues, the wimpishness and the shenanigans of the Old Guards and their supporters. Mdm Singam and her sore losers will then have a lot of explanation to do in their coming EOGM and to the media—for their obfuscation, the distortion and the opportunism to slant the issues for some cheap political gains. It looked like they are also very prone to diarrhoea (of the literary kind). Very sorry to say that.

They tried to play the gay/lesbian card (through the media) against Christians, and it back-fired.

They tried playing the secularist card (through the media) against Christians. And it back-FIRED!

And the opportunist Old Guards and supporters also tried their attempt (through the media again) to stoke the DBS and roil the uninformed and misinformed members of the public to have DBS Management sacked the courageous, visionary and caring Ms Josie Lau. And it BACKFIRED TERRIBLY ALSO!

Obviously, DBS Management people have been following very closely what the informed members of the public had to say, and we have clearly succeeded to clarify for DBS Management what the real issues are that the Old Guards and their legions of phallic-obsessed supporters from the gay and lesbian community (as well as their lobbyists) were up to—obfuscating, slanting, distorting and even fabricating blatant lies for some cheap political gains..

It is clear to concerned members of the public how brazenly, shamelessly and low the Old Guards’ supporters are prepared to debase themselves to—with cues from their political masters and manipulators—to obfuscate, distort and even to fabricate blatant lies in the public domain to foment religious hatred, etc, etc—JUST FOR SOME CHEAP POLITICAL GAINS.

So buddy, AWARE is not about Christian fundamentalism trying to supplant other beliefs. It should never be about helping gay/lesbianS in their phallic thrusts (with the real or the ersatz); or about secularism versus Christianity; or about Christians feeling duty-bound to bash Islam, etc, etc.

And most important of all, AWARE is NEVER, NEVER about a trouble-making Ms Josie Lau deliberately trying to create trouble to bring disrepute to the great bank of DBS.

Work in AWARE is all about taking seriously the sacred responsibility of working hard—with renewed vision, vigour, courage and great creativity—for the welfare of the needy and vulnerable girls and women in Singapore, in order to help PM Lee Hsien Loong build for us a more/most loving, caring and sharing Singapore that all of us can thank God for.

After all, it was the late Chairman Mao Zedong who said that women held up half of heaven Even though I am a man, I think it should be more correct to say “more than half of humanity”, compared to their somewhat laid-back male counterparts. (So sorry, gals!)

So the only sensible and honorable option left to Mdm Singam and her gang is to heed their new president’s sincere and humble call for reconciliation and unity of purpose for their common goal and challenges. That was why Josie Lau has been very gracious to have given Ms Singam this accolade: “Constance has a wealth of ideas and perspective, and her resignation will be such a loss to AWARE and women in Singapore.” Very True!! But it is good if Mdm Singam can scale down her hubris—that she has the monopoly on wisdom and ideas in AWARE.

If Mdm Singam is still finding great difficulty proferring an accepting hand for reconciliation, I kindly and earnestly urge her to try joining me to say this great prayer of Prophet Suleiman for its enabling power, as their spiritual preparation before they proceed for their coming EOGM:

“Inspire me, Lord, to be thankful to Thee for Thy favours to me and my parents to do good deeds which will please Thee. Admit me, through Thy mercy, to be among Thy righteous.” An-Na ml 27:19. “For the noblest in God’s sight is he/she who is the most righteous.” Al-Hujurut 49:13.

God bless us all! Majulah Singapura!!

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

Modern Charismatic churches like CHC and NCC do not normally publicly lobby on Evangelical American Christian Right Issues. They are not involved in the political process to the extent that it is done in the US, some Evangelical Bug bears for example like less than positive commentary about Muslims and the Prophet have never taken hold in the local church because of obvious sensitivities.

They may preach to the congregation christian values, would lobby the government privately but have never done what I believe that the Church of Savior has done which includes as far as I gather calls for the congregation to undertake lobbying and pressure campaigns on "moral values" from "internet liberalization" to "casinos" to
"section 377a". You will find that all roads esp in terms of the aware leadership lead to rome or to the Church of Savior and its organized coup. Organized lobbying to Organized Coup of an avowedly secular organization is something I can imangine



Locke

 

[leetahbar]

<a href="http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g306/leetahsar/?action=view&current=goalofbitch.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g306/leetahsar/goalofbitch.jpg" border="0" alt="goal of a bitch"></a>

correction: COOS - church of our saviour.

 

[TheBonerman]

3Whitetiger, shut your cheebye mouth lah!

 

[leetahbar]

Dear Scroobal

Modern Charismatic churches like CHC and NCC do not normally publicly lobby on Evangelical American Christian Right Issues. They are not involved in the political process to the extent that it is done in the US, some Evangelical Bug bears for example like less than positive commentary about Muslims and the Prophet have never taken hold in the local church because of obvious sensitivities.

They may preach to the congregation christian values, would lobby the government privately but have never done what I believe that the Church of Savior has done which includes as far as I gather calls for the congregation to undertake lobbying and pressure campaigns on "moral values" from "internet liberalization" to "casinos" to
"section 377a". You will find that all roads esp in terms of the aware leadership lead to rome or to the Church of Savior and its organized coup. Organized lobbying to Organized Coup of an avowedly secular organization is something I can imangine



Locke

churches are sales agent for a place in HEAVEN. they preach the most and yes sadly practise the least. doesn't this sound familiar? chee soon juan goes to church too.:p