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Association of Muslim Professionals finally wake up and take their PAP partner.

Muthukali

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Hey piece of shit look at your nick. Who's the leader of the PAP? So are you going to get all your m&d bros to vote for PAP? :rolleyes:


Wow looks like you want to betray your master. Damn didn't know a running dog like you would also turn traitor.


they sledom use their brain.
 
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Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Looks like you have not read their media release carefully. They are not denying the "hard truth" but pointing out that it should not be in print. They also highlighted that Chinese went down their merry way with speak mandarin/SAP schools and then expect the Malays to be compliant. They have mentioned and others have mentioned in parliament about school segregation and the same prick is scolding the malays about integration.

It like a pedophile giving a lesson on schoolyard bullies. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Since this govt took and introduced racial quotas, SAP schools, speak Mandarin campaigns, all the races have stopped integrating. When was the last time we heard out kids visiting a schoolfriend of Indian or Malay race at his home or going down for deepavalli.

I remember clearly my school days when we dying for deepavali, hari raya and christmas. There was an aunty that made the best vadai in our neighbourhood. Today most kids have never tasted vadai.

It about time the old man learnt some hard truths himself.

This is true, I can safely say that singapore was much more racially integrated in the 60s and 70s. I hung out with many malay friends, and even dated a maly girl for a while. The football team was a real unifying force. All races going to national stadium for the games. Now, I go to Bedok interchange hawker centre Malay section for lunch, and I am the only chinese there, and even the malays are a little confused as to why I am there. I enjoy malay food unabashedly, and I don't find anything strange about that. The races have diverged for sure, and this can be laid squarely on the head of asshole old goat.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
LKY is stuck in an era where his brand of govt worked. That era is long gone but he still acts as though the same rules continue to apply. That is why PAP is now having the "bull in a china shop" syndrome. This will be their undoing.

Yes, that era ended 20 years ago.
 

Debonerman

Alfrescian
Loyal
I find myself in unfamiliar territory. The Old Hakka Fart may have his own agenda but then...........................Who forced him to import in all the Nehs and Tiongs. Who were trying to breed themselves into power?



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scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Firstly welcome back. You are needed here more than many of us. Secondly good points, arguments and well rounded views. Always enjoyed a good debate.
I read this thread with interest & enjoyed a few chuckles.

But oh, how I respected AMPs balanced & well-crafted response, totally credible, cogent & unhysterical.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Politically incisive points and on the spot. The media release by AMP clearly has challenged the cabinet and the ruling establishment to come out and make their stand clear. They don't want a situation where everyone including cabinet blaming the old man for senility and avoiding the issue.

I have no doubt that Tony Tan is going to have chat with Han about this. When old man published his first memoirs, the draft was sent to Malay MPs and Yatiman Yusoff to remove insensitive remarks.


AMP is smart. With this statement, they are forcing the current govt. to either come to the rescue of Old Goat or to disavow him. They will have no choice but to defend Old Goat's statement in a very public debate. AMP has fired the initial salvo already. Look for the PAP to respond either thru the PAP controlled MUIS, or one of the malay ministers. They will not send a chinese minister to counter the AMP allegations. AMP has to expect a protracted debate on this, and they need to start researching all the prior PAP comments on the malay race. I recall in the 80s when Gay Loong was the minister of defence he said words to the effect that you cannot trust malays in the army during times of conflicts. AMP should use these examples and prove that this issue of MM looking down at the malaysis endemic and ingrained into the PAP. Also, the release of a book insulting malays on the eve of CNY is really a slap in the face of the malays and smacks of chinese chauvinism.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Bro you bring back good memories. It was a wonderful time. At that time the usual stereotypes such as the drunk and tongue twisting Indian, the lazy malay, the cut-throat chinese etc. But they were very distant and for some amazing reason did not include all our malay and indian friends and those that we saw and met in our daily lives. Those stereotypes to many of us were ironically exception and we did not allow it to smear the rest of mankind.

It is such a shame that the younger generation did not have the opportunity to have similar opportunity to feel being a "Singaporean" Today a Chinese Singaporean is completely different to a Indian Singaporean or a Malay Singaporean. You can see in the office and foodcourts.

I also noticed that the local Indians have been less cosmpolitan than they used to be.

It we are looking at hard truths, then it is certainly a segregated country and who is to be blamed for the policies that led to this mess. The older generation knows what good looks like because they lived it. We had our fun with the Minahs, the Ranis, the Lay Hoons and not mention Nancy from the Eurasian lot. And it was a wonderful time. We went to school with Raja, Mohd, Kuan Yew and Arthur and we broke bread with the Salim, Sivalingam, Tan and de Souza families every now and then.

Now our kids have no clue if Rani is a girl or boy.

Damn, I going to have my Mee Rebus at Geylang and late night supper at Apollo.


This is true, I can safely say that singapore was much more racially integrated in the 60s and 70s. I hung out with many malay friends, and even dated a maly girl for a while. The football team was a real unifying force. All races going to national stadium for the games. Now, I go to Bedok interchange hawker centre Malay section for lunch, and I am the only chinese there, and even the malays are a little confused as to why I am there. I enjoy malay food unabashedly, and I don't find anything strange about that. The races have diverged for sure, and this can be laid squarely on the head of asshole old goat.
 

Debonerman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Since this govt took and introduced racial quotas, SAP schools, speak Mandarin campaigns, all the races have stopped integrating. When was the last time we heard out kids visiting a schoolfriend of Indian or Malay race at his home or going down for deepavalli.

What racial quotas?

Where is the finger pointing exactly as to the reason why the young of the different races are not integrating?

It's not common but the young do cross the racial divide to visit each other during festive holidays. Don't put it as if the time bomb is going to explode imminently.
 

Debonerman

Alfrescian
Loyal
The Malays had been checked by the PAP through the opening of the floodgates to immigrants and the high cost of living. Live among them in the heartlands, use keen obsevation to come up with a fair perspective as to what is really going on. The Malays forced the hand of the regime.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Firstly thanks to all. It was good to have this discussion and debate. You all were right in different ways. The "hard truth" is that our Malay brothers have not progressed, and Islam has been a factor somewhat.

My sense is that this Govt laid the policies that clearly marginalised the minorities. If you were in the shoe of a Malay, you would be beside yourself if you were put togeter with other Malays and asked to do NS in construction brigade and the Police. Those policies scars anyone for the rest of their natural life. The Govt does not trust them yet expects them to trust the govt in return. Personally I wondered why the Malays ever supported the PAP. I am fully aware of national security issues and they forming of a potential fifth column but was it worth it. Should more creativity be involved in getting them into SAF. It seems that the policies has actually created a fifth column.

This old man has had control of this govt for 51 years. Seems to me an ample opportunity to get the equation right. He is now leaving this world with a divided nation. The irony is that both his wife and him are fluent Malay speakers and it was the spoken language at home when they grew up.

The Singapore Chinese did not realise how the minorities felt until the FTs began arriving in numbers. The Indian FT had masters and lot cheaper than an NUS chap. The Indian chap at Sentosa Cove with his own berth and high end car has now touched the soft belly of a Singaporean who voted for the PAP and now wondering if his job will last as he reaches 40. Now the Ah Tiongs have come and situation is more dire. They are on scholarship. The smarter ones skip the bonds and less smart ones compete ruthlessly.

I can go on and on. But it does sound like a fractured society governed and assessed by the quarterly GDP figures.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
If you look at demographics around the world, it shows that except for catholic countries, the general trend does indicate that number of children closely correlates to low education and a factor of marginalisation.

This govt is one built on financial economics. The easiest way to increase GDP is to open up and increase the number of consumers. If the Malays had low birth rate, I can guarantee you more Indonesians would be brought in and the policy will be skewed to ensure that it will be a docile lot.

Looks absolutely strange to me that an Ah Tiong is here because Rahman has an aggressive libido.

The Malays had been checked by the PAP through the opening of the floodgates to immigrants and the high cost of living. Live among them in the heartlands, use keen obsevation to come up with a fair perspective as to what is really going on. The Malays forced the hand of the regime.
 

Malays Must Vote PAP!

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hey piece of shit look at your nick. Who's the leader of the PAP? So are you going to get all your m&d bros to vote for PAP? :rolleyes:

Wow looks like you want to betray your master. Damn didn't know a running dog like you would also turn traitor.

It is easier to deal with the slit and slant eyed chinks - note: I have not used "slit and slant eyed chinks" until you reintroduced "m&d" into this thread - when they can be clearly identified and dealt with under one entity than dealing with a disparate groups of slit eyes under numerous slitty-eyed chink clans.

That Chinaman thought he was being brilliant in unifying all the slit eyes into one homogenous Mandarin speaking group so that there would a solid numbers of chinks to do his bidding in usurping our land.

In fact, what he has actually done is to make it easier for us to reclaim our usurped land from the slit eyes.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
It is unusual for MM to conclude that Muslims have not integrated based on his sporadic observations of eating practices of Muslims. Many Muslims have no qualms sharing tables with their non-Muslim friends and colleagues. Muslims are obliged to observe certain dietary restrictions, inasmuch as people subscribing to other religions (e.g. Buddhists or Hindus who do not consume certain types of foods) or others having dietary restrictions (vegetarians, vegans). It is a stretch and disingenuous to suggest that Muslims are against or less likely to integrate primarily on account of our dietary restrictions or eating habits.

On this point of Halal food and Halal certified food establishments, I would disagree with the view of the AMP.

Let me recount a personal experience that I had.

When my daughter was aged 18 months, we celebrated a family member's birthday dinner at a Swensen's restaurant. As we normally would, we packed some home cooked porridge for my daughter. It was cooked with carrots and chicken.

As we were having our dinner, the manager of the restaurant came forward and advised us not to feed our daughter the porridge as it was deemed "outside food". We explained to the manager that there was nothing on the Swensen's menu that is suitable as a meal for an 18 month old child. His reply was that there was a complaint from a Muslim family sitting at another table who had observed the consumption of "outside food" in the restaurant (the chicken porridge we were feeding our daughter) and they threatened to complain to MUIS. Swensen's was a Halal certified food establishment. The manager said that there was "nothing he could do" and requested that we feed our daughter outside the restaurant. We thus had to comply and take our daughter out of the restaurant and feed her.

Personally I can understand the sensitivities involved. However it is not a case where we were deliberately flouting the rules to spite any religion or anyone. And there was no offensive food types in our daughter's meal.

It is one thing to have firm religious beliefs and practices, but to impose them upon others of different faiths is another matter altogether.

Since many food establishments have become "Halal certified" we have seen our choices of food types on the menu of these restaurants restricted by the Muslim community. Shouldn't it be enough that the Muslims choose on their own not to take certain food types and allow other people to do so all under the same roof? As it is, where does the definition of "roof" end? The same room? The same building? The same country?

We are not even talking about sharing the same table and utensils. Even on separate tables, just the sight of an 18 month old baby taking "outside food" can elicit unhappiness in a Muslim. To me it is going a bit too far.

It is interesting that in the AMP's statement they phrased it carefully "Many Muslims have no qualms sharing tables with their non-Muslim friends and colleagues."

Note that it is "many" and not "all" or even "almost all".

In a country where food and meals form an important focus for Singaporeans, I find it difficult to accept the rules that Halal certified food establishments impose on all their patrons regardless of their religion or beliefs. A bacon sandwich is a bacon sandwich. Making it into a Turkey bacon sandwich that everyone has to consume because of one religion is an example of this.

This goes beyond being distinct as a community. It also shows how the aggressively the community asserts itself.

It is clearly not a case of one community trying to integrate itself into the broader community but rather coercing (albeit subtly) the broader community to conform to the said community's practices and beliefs.

As far as I know, no other community has such practices in Singapore.
 
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Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The old man is dead on with his observations.

Other ethnic groups may view them with suspicions and why not? In the past was racial riots and now it was indiscriminate bombings. The so called peaceful Singaporeans sit on the fence. The irritating signs are there that they would have nothing to do with their neighbors. Go to coffeeshops opposite their mosques and you will find yourselves ignored by the waiters. Suddenly the most reviled animals are dogs in a pets loving nation. The young malays hardly mixed, further reinforcing stereotypes of themselves.

I wonder when the tudung craze going to stop. Even toddlers are wearing it. Some go the extra mile with Osama's style turban and veils. How many buddhist, christian, or hindu parent would send their children to full time religious school. A good muslim listens to his teacher but what if the teacher believe in heaven with virgins and the quickest way to go there?


Oh crap!!!

You're now a racist.


You should know that in sg when you state unflattering truths about them, that's it you're a racist.


It's always the chinese fault. Just ask our resident expert and all round genius scroobal also affectionately known as screwball.

The poor malays are minorities here okay being bullied by the chinese. How? you might ask. Well they are a minority here so they are bullied by the evil chinese. :rolleyes:

Pls malays don't want to integrate with the other races? It's due to chinese racism. It's always the chinese fault. Just ask screwball again. :rolleyes: All chinese must bend over backwards and get called racist names to accomdate the malays, after all they stole the land from the malays.

Pls take note it's only okay to stereotype malays if it's a good stereotype.

Hence all malays are good footballers and good singers. :rolleyes:

They are also peaceful loving and those that have joined gangs especially chinese gangs have been brainwashed by the evil and morally corrupt chinese.

Malays don't do well in studies and are generally in the lower income group cos they love to smell the roses and enjoy life and not because they are lazy (you're a racist if you say that)
:rolleyes:

It's okay for muslim or malay shops to ignore non malays especially chinese ones but it's racist if the opposite occurs.

Lastly remember what i have written above it's the exact opposite thing in regards to the chinese. Just ask ramseth and screwball.

Damn i have finally written a post that screwball wholeheartedly agrees with.
 

Malays Must Vote PAP!

Alfrescian
Loyal
This is true, I can safely say that singapore was much more racially integrated in the 60s and 70s. I hung out with many malay friends, and even dated a maly girl for a while. The football team was a real unifying force. All races going to national stadium for the games. Now, I go to Bedok interchange hawker centre Malay section for lunch, and I am the only chinese there, and even the malays are a little confused as to why I am there. I enjoy malay food unabashedly, and I don't find anything strange about that. The races have diverged for sure, and this can be laid squarely on the head of asshole old goat.

The good old days are over my (ex) brother. As I said earlier in another thread, we Malays willingly accepted you Chinese as our brothers and sisters and as our equals in the ownership of our ancestral land.

This lead to Singapore chugging along nicely until the early 80s when this old dummy thought that he had successfully used us and no longer required us and released his pent up tribalism and freely showed up his hateful racism against the Malays.

He single handedly embarked on a disastrous move to sinicise our land. It led to a surge in Chinese chauvinism and the Chinese started to move away from inclusiveness to exclusivity, speaking their Mandarin languages, sticking to their own kind and insensitively excluding the Malays and even the Indians.

We started hitting back.

My community's madrasahs is the response to the Chinese SAP schools.

My community undeclared Speak Malay campaign is in response to the Chinese openly declared "Hua Ren, Huayi, Chang Huayi" campaigns.

My community's has largely stop interacting with the Chang Huayi speaking Chinese who used to speak in English, thus facilitating communication with my people and the Chinese. We now largely interact amongst ourselves. You speak your Chinese language. We will speak our Malay language.

My community's view of the Chinese now is that they have grown too big for their heads. We no longer see them as equal owners of our land but that of usurpers of our land.

My community's identification with the global Muslim ummah instead of the Chinese living on our land is in response to the Chinese identification with the global Chinese community where Chinese tribalism takes precedence over nationalism. This can be clearly seen when Chinese from all over the world are invited to be citizens just to keep our Malay numbers down.

Our community has finally seen though the Chinese. We realise that our culture of embracing the Chinese as our brothers and sister in our land when they were fleeing the hardships in China has not been reciprocated in kind. Worse, they are now trying to usurp our land. Even worse, they think they have succeeded in usurping our land.

Now that the Chinese have made this clear, we will also make it clear to the Chinese that no matter how long it takes, we will regain our land eventually from the Chinese usurpers. It is now a fight to regain ownership of our ancestral land from the Chinese chauvinists and Mandarin speaking ultras.

The good old days are over my (ex) brother. Where there was once friendship amongst us, there is now enmity. Where there was once friendship and cordiality, there is is now hate and bitterness. Thanks for the memories.

It is now time for the Chinese to be see the hard truth, that is, that they do not own this land.
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
.............



As far as I know, no other community has such practices in Singapore.



Here's what i have to say. It's clearly your fault. It's ok for more restaurants to become halal certified cos hey who cares about discriminating non muslims especially chinese non muslims.

You're also a racist for writing this, oh yes i can see you were very specific in pointing out "MANY muslims" in the article as you didn't want to give the impression that most malay muslims were like this hence making you seem like an even BIGGER racist.

Now i have to find an example of a chinese family complaining to the restaurant manager to kick out a poor malay family cos you know there are many many bad chinese ppl around. Don't have any examples cos i have never ever seen that. Never mind i'll just make up a story cos there definitely are more bad chinese ppl that inconvinence the poor malays. :rolleyes:
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
It is easier to deal with the slit and slant eyed chinks - note: I have not used "slit and slant eyed chinks" until you reintroduced "m&d" into this thread - when they can be clearly identified and dealt with under one entity than dealing with a disparate groups of slit eyes under numerous slitty-eyed chink clans.

That Chinaman thought he was being brilliant in unifying all the slit eyes into one homogenous Mandarin speaking group so that there would a solid numbers of chinks to do his bidding in usurping our land.

In fact, what he has actually done is to make it easier for us to reclaim our usurped land from the slit eyes.


hey mat yoyo you didn't answer my question. LKY is leader of the pap so must malays vote pap now? Seems like you need a new nick.
 

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Scroobal

Firstly for all of MM's flaws and faults, he is pointing out a trend which if it goes in a certain direction will result in a weakening of integration, he might have grasped the wrong end of the stake and used the wrong example but there is a worry there which is not without substance

At the end of the day the AMP answers whilst correct also do not or seek to avoid addressing the issues which MM has raised with his incorrect examples.

So point by point, Islam in itself is no barrier to integration, the details however do matter as to how Islam is practiced and which form of Islam takes root in Singapore and in SEA.

http://malaysia-today.net/archives/...elebrating-religious-festivals-of-non-muslims

Just read for example the officials Islamic guidelines as issued by the Malaysian Islamic Affairs department up North. That is a recipe for zero integration, inter faith dialogue, or any form of Malays attending an office xmas party or going to visit a colleague wishing him happy CNY.

Suffice it to say that I would argue that even without SAP schools , speak mandarin campaigns or any of the perceived issues raised by AMP as a counter, all it takes is for a more austere or more conservative form of Islam to take root and we will still end up with intolerance between the communities.



Locke
 
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