Apuneh PhD Dr. based in D.C. write shit about SAF Hunter AFV

[mudhatter]

it's a broadcast satellite, thus likely geosynchronous and single. other way is to detonate near the ground stations. not surprising that prc, usa, and russia are already developing tactical e-bombs and can be launched by artillery units. a barrage or a single salvo of these shells can easily take out an armored formation 69% reliant on c4 "networking" bs.

Not developed yet?

It's the Yankees which believe in this C4ISR bs.

Without comms and electronic circuitry, most warfighting concepts will be rendered invalid.

How do you communicate beyond line of sight if all electronic circuitry in your vicinity has been fried?

How can a fighter jet target enemies if all its electronics have been fried?

 

[mudhatter]

Keling kia just like chinks possess no creativity or originality.

Copy paste that's the best they could do.

Another distinctly ah pu neh neh characteristic - leaching on to other societies founded by more successful races for their livelihoods.

 

[Papsmearer]

haha. the commercial cellular network is still da best when it cums to coverage. i stumbled near no-man's land in the 90s when ecuador was fighting a border dispute with peru deep in the west amazon jungle and lo and behold, there was this ecuadorian commander talking on his analog cellphone in his hummer in a valley. cell signal was (not surprisingly) better than military radio in those deep holes. i was with a team of surveyors and we were allowed to venture up to a peak where a brigade size signal rebro site was set up. there were about 6.9 battalion signal platoons snoozing off while their radios were chattering. problem for the military is that they tend to pick a very high site with commanding view of the area and blast and rebroadcast their radios with high power all over the terrain like a "boomer" site. the signal reaches peaks and sides of mountains and hills but not ravines and valleys. the cellular network is more down to the ground and towers are interspersed on smaller hills and knolls in order to reach roads, towns, valleys, rivers (where villagers and visitors tend to go to). but i was surprised to see the brigade commander talking on his cellphone deep in a ravine. when i checked my map marked with telco assets, there was a tower nearby.

for this so called "networking" to work, the afv still needs a radio network, whether it's wi-fi, cellular/mobile, satellite or military radio network. it's not like you can suka suka transmit tcp/ip and udp bits wirelessly on the go without radio signals. it has to be a private, unique, encrypted radio network with wide spectrum for broadband in order to counter jamming, interference, and hacking. and either a bunch of rebro, repeater, or base station sites needs to be set up at strategic points or every vehicle acts like a node in a radio mesh network. very easy peesy to knock this out with an emp blast in the area.

There are many issues associated with the SAF's "integrated network" system that DSTA, MINDEATH and SAF will not tell you.

1) The network is dependent on sensor inputs from UAV, air assets, ground, etc. to paint a battlefield picture on the screen. But its also dependent on some human input from scouts, units already in contact with enemy, etc. In a battle hardened army like the US Army, such human input is considered to be reliable. However, in a paper army like ours, with scholar generals, and conscript soldiers, any input from them has to be taken with a grain a salt. eg. a lone enemy sniper putting out a good volume of accurate fire on an SAF convoy could be construed to be a whole battalion of Spetsnaz attacking them. hence, what the gabra officer/trooper puts into the system is what will come out of it. garbage in, garbage out.

2) Hacking of the technocentric battlefield network system is a real possibility, given the PLA probably have already stripped down everything useful from the Terrex they borrowed in HKG a couple of years back. Fighting against a large and relatively sophisticated army like the PLA, I predict that there will be some serious attempts on hacking the system, which will blind the SAF in combat or even worse lead units into ambush.

3) Armies that have adopted this technology extensively are armies like the IDF, whose primary enemies are terrorists, and PLO oppositions. Non of which have the ability to detonate or use a EMP weapon in the future. I would think any future EMP devices deployed by an enemy of the SAF will render all of their network useless.

4) the Information in the network is good up till the engagement. In the end, its still the soldier in his AFV against the other guy. This is where it will come down to a bad day for the SAF.

 

[Papsmearer]

Not developed yet?

It's the Yankees which believe in this C4ISR bs.

Without comms and electronic circuitry, most warfighting concepts will be rendered invalid.

How do you communicate beyond line of sight if all electronic circuitry in your vicinity has been fried?

How can a fighter jet target enemies if all its electronics have been fried?

The US Army believes in this because the 90% of the engagement they have fought in the last 40 years have been against low tech or no tech opponents. eg, Grenada, Panama, Kosovo, Astan, etc. Perhaps the only semi sophisticated enemy they have really fought has been Iraq. Non of which have the ability remotely close to it to use EMP or other devices against them.

 

[eatshitndie]

Not developed yet?

It's the Yankees which believe in this C4ISR bs.

Without comms and electronic circuitry, most warfighting concepts will be rendered invalid.

How do you communicate beyond line of sight if all electronic circuitry in your vicinity has been fried?

How can a fighter jet target enemies if all its electronics have been fried?

of course developed liao. otherwise how to test and deploy? it's the enhanced tactical version that is being developed whereby it can be delivered by drone. yankees started and relied on c4 concepts decades ago and it is still being used today, but there's a more robust, more geo-redundant, more fail-proof cloud-based concept with embedded independent ai and self-initiated power and boot-up firmware in each weapon system being developed. if comms is lost, they are packed with default ai (and alternate chips on cold standby) that each weapon system can function on its own until they are sync'ed with the cloud (hopefully after 6.9 hours). of course, most systems will be stunned and knocked out immediately, but these (new) systems will wake up after 6.9 minutes and reboot itself with an analog clock and counter that still keeps ticking. very soon and most likely today, chicoms can outsmart and render c4 useless, thus the need to counter their counter with c6.9.

c6.9 (clock or cosmograph 6.9)

 

[eatshitndie]

There are many issues associated with the SAF's "integrated network" system that DSTA, MINDEATH and SAF will not tell you.

1) The network is dependent on sensor inputs from UAV, air assets, ground, etc. to paint a battlefield picture on the screen. But its also dependent on some human input from scouts, units already in contact with enemy, etc. In a battle hardened army like the US Army, such human input is considered to be reliable. However, in a paper army like ours, with scholar generals, and conscript soldiers, any input from them has to be taken with a grain a salt. eg. a lone enemy sniper putting out a good volume of accurate fire on an SAF convoy could be construed to be a whole battalion of Spetsnaz attacking them. hence, what the gabra officer/trooper puts into the system is what will come out of it. garbage in, garbage out.

2) Hacking of the technocentric battlefield network system is a real possibility, given the PLA probably have already stripped down everything useful from the Terrex they borrowed in HKG a couple of years back. Fighting against a large and relatively sophisticated army like the PLA, I predict that there will be some serious attempts on hacking the system, which will blind the SAF in combat or even worse lead units into ambush.

3) Armies that have adopted this technology extensively are armies like the IDF, whose primary enemies are terrorists, and PLO oppositions. Non of which have the ability to detonate or use a EMP weapon in the future. I would think any future EMP devices deployed by an enemy of the SAF will render all of their network useless.

4) the Information in the network is good up till the engagement. In the end, its still the soldier in his AFV against the other guy. This is where it will come down to a bad day for the SAF.

all great points. even the mighty and most advanced u.s. army plus marines could not handle asymmetric warfare (epitomized by cheap homemade ied's) for 6.9 years in iraq and 16.9 years in afghanistan. they were using c4 in their field ops and command post, but c4 could not figure out where the ied's are.

 

[Papsmearer]

all great points. even the mighty and most advanced u.s. army plus marines could not handle asymmetric warfare (epitomized by cheap homemade ied's) for 6.9 years in iraq and 16.9 years in afghanistan. they were using c4 in their field ops and command post, but c4 could not figure out where the ied's are.

Yup. A USD$300 used AK-47 will kill you as dead as a $8000 M110 SASS Rifle. Makes no difference, u are dead. In the list of all probable or potential enemies in SE Asia, the SAF is more likely to encounter insurgent warfare, epitomized by urban ambushes, IEDs, and other low tech fighting techniques, rather then an enemy using the same level of networking ability. This piece of crap called Hunter is a flaming wreck if an enemy pops up from the roof of a 3 storey shop house and fires a $50 RPG round into the top of the vehicle. Its about the actual commanders, how they integrate the infantry into the setting, over watch by snipers and drones, etc. This is sophisticated stuff, and we will never have the same level of expertise as a professional army like the US Army. We are only an army of conscripts and reservist, who use the equipment once a year. Coupled with senior commanders who are not professional soldiers, but politicians in waiting, you just have expensive targets driving around the battle area.

 

[mudhatter]

of course developed liao. otherwise how to test and deploy? it's the enhanced tactical version that is being developed whereby it can be delivered by drone. yankees started and relied on c4 concepts decades ago and it is still being used today, but there's a more robust, more geo-redundant, more fail-proof cloud-based concept with embedded independent ai and self-initiated power and boot-up firmware in each weapon system being developed. if comms is lost, they are packed with default ai (and alternate chips on cold standby) that each weapon system can function on its own until they are sync'ed with the cloud (hopefully after 6.9 hours). of course, most systems will be stunned and knocked out immediately, but these (new) systems will wake up after 6.9 minutes and reboot itself with an analog clock and counter that still keeps ticking. very soon and most likely today, chicoms can outsmart and render c4 useless, thus the need to counter their counter with c6.9.

c6.9 (clock or cosmograph 6.9)
View attachment 63239

AI can replace comms and networking ?

AI is just gimmick for algorithm that feeds on data provided to itself.

If all electronics is fried, where does that leave your standby chips?

If all electronics is fried, then closed hatch ops are impossible, beyond line of sight ops impossible, comms cut off, will electric vehicle start at all?

Better idea is to make vehicles EMP-resistant like how watches are water resistant.

 

[eatshitndie]

AI can replace comms and networking ?

AI is just gimmick for algorithm that feeds on data provided to itself.

If all electronics is fried, where does that leave your standby chips?

If all electronics is fried, then closed hatch ops are impossible, beyond line of sight ops impossible, comms cut off, will electric vehicle start at all?

Better idea is to make vehicles EMP-resistant like how watches are water resistant.

where did i say ai replaces comms and networking. you bodoh lah. ai allows independent courses of action without comms and networking. i said when comms are down ai embedded in backup system takes over and run independently. backup system can be hardened and shielded from emp, but it has to be on cold standby with own (passive) battery power and without connection to an active power source as power cables to an active source will render it vulnerable to emp. but it has to “wake up” and bootstrap to working status. wake up mechanism can be mechanical like an analog watch or clock which is triggered by an emp pulse. or if vehicle is manned personnel can activate shielded backup system. manned vehicle can hardly be completely shielded as you need holes and or seams for vision and venting.

 

[mudhatter]

Yup. A USD$300 used AK-47 will kill you as dead as a $8000 M110 SASS Rifle. Makes no difference, u are dead. In the list of all probable or potential enemies in SE Asia, the SAF is more likely to encounter insurgent warfare, epitomized by urban ambushes, IEDs, and other low tech fighting techniques, rather then an enemy using the same level of networking ability. This piece of crap called Hunter is a flaming wreck if an enemy pops up from the roof of a 3 storey shop house and fires a $50 RPG round into the top of the vehicle. Its about the actual commanders, how they integrate the infantry into the setting, over watch by snipers and drones, etc. This is sophisticated stuff, and we will never have the same level of expertise as a professional army like the US Army. We are only an army of conscripts and reservist, who use the equipment once a year. Coupled with senior commanders who are not professional soldiers, but politicians in waiting, you just have expensive targets driving around the battle area.

American troops died by the boatloads everywhere from Afghanistan to Iraq to Vietnam to elsewhere.

After retreat from Vietnam, they figured they should learn to hide casualties and control the flow of information to media so that public protests don't break out the way they did during Viet Nam war.

I thought there's sth called APS? Shouldn't take care of simple RPGs?

Here's how thick Hunter's armor is....more thick than any other AFV in the market I reckon.

Any RPG that can penetrate that thiccccccck booooty (or is it body?) gotta enjoy it the best. Shiok!

 

[mudhatter]

where did i say ai can replace comms and networking. you bodoh lah. ai allows independent courses of action without comms and networking.

Difference?

If AI allows independent course of action, it can replace AI & comms already?

 

[eatshitndie]

Difference?

If AI allows independent course of action, it can replace AI & comms already?

are you a kid still going to school?

 

[mudhatter]

where did i say ai replaces comms and networking. you bodoh lah. ai allows independent courses of action without comms and networking. i said when comms are down ai embedded in backup system takes over and run independently. backup system can be hardened and shielded from emp, but it has to be on cold standby with own (passive) battery power and without connection to an active power source as power cables to an active source will render it vulnerable to emp. but it has to “wake up” and bootstrap to working status. wake up mechanism can be mechanical like an analog watch or clock which is triggered by an emp pulse. or if vehicle is manned personnel can activate shielded backup system. manned vehicle can hardly be completely shielded as you need holes and or seams for vision and venting.

Faraday cages got holes

AI can't do shit without sensors to feed it info. If sensors don't work and comms don't work, AI is just a gimmick.

 

[Kee Chew]

The Moral of All Stories


Profits and More Profits... Period. !

 

[mudhatter]

are you a kid still going to school?

No.

How does AI negate the absence of sensors and comms?

 

[eatshitndie]

Faraday cages got holes

AI can't do shit without sensors to feed it info. If sensors don't work and comms don't work, AI is just a gimmick.

totally hardened shield is not the same as faraday cage lah. it is completely isolated from the main system. even in a totally enclosed faraday hut for cellphone testing you still need cables running to an active power source. ai can still work with old school optics, rangefinders, mechanical cams, or any mechanical systems with contact closures lah. ai is just a human brain replacement in unmanned vehicle, and doesn’t need to have limbs, lampar and lanjiao ok. in manned vehicle if operator survives can still use mechanical systems, but in this afv which is over-reliant on electronics the operator is blind and will gabra inside without opening the hatch to see what’s going on outside.

 

[eatshitndie]

No.

How does AI negate the absence of sensors and comms?

how does a mechanical computer in ww2 help break the enigma code? why must ai be totally dependent on modern sensors and comms?

 

[Papsmearer]

American troops died by the boatloads everywhere from Afghanistan to Iraq to Vietnam to elsewhere.

After retreat from Vietnam, they figured they should learn to hide casualties and control the flow of information to media so that public protests don't break out the way they did during Viet Nam war.

I thought there's sth called APS? Shouldn't take care of simple RPGs?

Here's how thick Hunter's armor is....more thick than any other AFV in the market I reckon.

Any RPG that can penetrate that thiccccccck booooty (or is it body?) gotta enjoy it the best. Shiok!

The thickness has hardly anything to do with the protection of the vehicle. Nowadays, no one uses straight hardened steel as armour, or RHA. Its all composite armour now. You can see the spaces in the engine cover, there are probably MEXAS or some other composite ceramic type armour concocted by IBD Deisenroth. A thick hull of RHA probably offers less protection these days then a thinner layer of a composite like Chobham or some other combination.

The APS for this vehicle is not confirmed. Likely it will be installed into the Son Of David turret because anything the Jews want to sell, the SAF will buy. But APS is a double edged sword. Against RPGs, the APS has an optimal detection range and deployment range, and guess what, it ain't in an urban or jungle environment. i.e. you can pop your head behind a HDB block and fire a RPG from 200m away, versus standing in an open environment and firing it from 600m, the performance of the APS is much better in the latter case. Also, if you have troopers or civilians in close proximity to the HUnter AFV and the APS goes off against an incoming RPG, you will kill them too.

 

[mudhatter]

The US Army believes in this because the 90% of the engagement they have fought in the last 40 years have been against low tech or no tech opponents. eg, Grenada, Panama, Kosovo, Astan, etc. Perhaps the only semi sophisticated enemy they have really fought has been Iraq. Non of which have the ability remotely close to it to use EMP or other devices against them.

Yet, the Tiongs don't dare to take the fight to the Tiongs and all advanced Yankee vassal states like Japs or Gooks believe in the same C4ISR.

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

That is the most asinine post I have seen. Defence contractors lose money all the time on arms deal. And its impossible for most weapons sales to be secret. You want to know why? If a post on twitter, FB, any social or traditional media shows a Hunter driving around the Myanmar countryside, then guess what? We sold it to them, even though it was never announced. Years ago during the war between Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia, I saw on the news the Serbs were using our Ultimax 100. Was it a secret that we sold it to them? Of course, they were under arms sanctions at that time. But guess what? The whole world knows we sold it them. There is no secret once the weapon system is used in combat or used in a parade.

Bill Sullivan wud be proud