Aloysius Pang accident: Howitzer design is inherently dangerous. Do not let SAF explain their way out of this.

[Leckmichamarsch]

Me not arty so don't know the stuff. However look at the Paladin system. There is space. So how come the Singkie system is soo expose that the barrel moves within the turret. The Yankee system seems different. The barrel is not expose.

This toy designed, developed by Dr Richard Kwok, VP of ST Kinetics....

 

[FuckOttoke]

cheaper
better
faster

sinkie ns slaves don't complain , you voted for ns .

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

the primus has an extended loading cradle at the bottom of the barrel thus less room in turret when gun is lowered. shells are right behind in paladin thus american crew can work on shell selection, range cap adjustments, loading and unloading of shells by hand. don’t know why the shell feed cradle of the primus is so long, and i assume that’s the part that crushed pang. anybody in st kinetics knows? sinkie arties too small, skinny, and weak to carry and load shells at full salvo? thus require a long cradle for holding and feeding shells? anyway, recoil of barrel in paladin can also hurt, if not kill, if crew is not careful.

In process of designing, were comptomises made or change done w.out fully understanding its consequences?

 

[rushifa666]

ST kinectics shit is just that, shit. Cheaper, better, faster to your graves

 

[rushifa666]

In process of designing, were comptomises made or change done w.out fully understanding its consequences?

You mean copying right? Even copy they can fuvk up. Uniquely sink8eland

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

I stopped reading at the sentence: "that space should be blocked off and only to be accessed (if ever) during repairs." He must be damned ignorant if he still doesn't know that Aloysius was there for the repair. How to believe this kind of nerd?

ST kinectics shit is just that, shit. Cheaper, better, faster to your graves

Many got promotions n became multi millionaires....now retired or parked in golden carparks

 

[rushifa666]

If you can sleep as your tech kills people, sure, why not?

 

[hofmann]

Military weaponry has never been designed with safety as a primary concern. Armaments are killing machines. On a battlefield the primary function of a weapon is to kill the enemy.

Operator safety is secondary to factors such as reliability, ease of maintenance, quick deployment and so on.

That's probably how the communist countries design their weapon systems where life is cheap.

The Americans take a whole different approach to ensure operator survivability. AH-64, A-10, M1 tank just to name a few.

 

[steffychun]

The Paladin is bigger, wider and heavier.

The decision to develop the Primus was made after a market survey in 1995 and 1996 of some of the world's best self-propelled guns from the United States (M109 Paladin), United Kingdom (AS90 Braveheart), Japan (Type 75) and Russia (2S3M1) found them either too heavy or too wide for local terrain. They were known to have a lot of firepower, were highly mobile and very survivable but they were also very heavy, mostly in the range of 50 tons, and the SAF needed something lighter. The SAF needed the Primus to weigh less than 30 tons and be no wider than 3 metres, for it to move across bridges and through the local vegetation. Hence the decision was made to develop a completely new self-propelled howitzer.[citation needed]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSPH_Primus

Bullshit. Paladin is widely used in all terrain and performs well, heavy or wide or whatever.

 

[KuanTi01]

I appreciate this Raymond Ng chap for sticking his neck out to sound out the public and SAF.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156369689818655&id=698343654

He is very brave and conscientious as well. But he may be hunted down for spilling the beans on ST Kinetics and SAF and making them blameworthy and cringe-worthy.

 

[rushifa666]

The post is removed already the bastards. Anyone saved it?

 

[batman1]

That's MINDEF BS. Make the deceased responsible so that MINDEF can pay pittance as compensation. I hope the family of the deceased will not let MINDEF get away with that. Seek at least $10 million or have the issue publicized through a lawsuit.

Section 14 of the Government Proceeding Acts grants immunity to MINDEF or any of the SAF commanders or officers who may be involved
with any deaths or injuries of NSmen and NSFs against any civil suits.

 

[rushifa666]

He is very brave and conscientious as well. But he may be hunted down for spilling the beans on ST Kinetics and SAF and making them blameworthy and cringe-worthy.

The funny thing is i saw at least 3 posts by professionals in different places fucking them. Obviously they slammed the one less credible.

 

[garlic]

.....Now I am serving as a Practising Management Consultant certified by a Board closely related to the government. My job concerns the design of management and operations systems for companies. The principles of business management & designing operating procedures for these tanks are the same.


More at https://tinyurI.com/y9egzhqt

I stopped reading after this sentence... he sounds like a smart Aleck. Don't get me wrong, i welcome qualified persons to poke holes at SAF's hocus pocus... but certainly not from this quack.

 

[a_korusawa]

there is basic, mandatory fundamentals for tag-in/tag-out safety rules when working in any confined space!
before entrance, all operational impacts would be tagged i.e. no 3rd party interventions totally at all!
and only be operational when the concerned approve and tag-out is performed.
but why this is NOT presence in SAF !!!
recent fatalities are all fallen mostly on lower other ranks instead of the commanders! Why?
worst, the commanders are mostly present at site in most of these mishaps!
why NOT the commanders up lorry instead? aren't they supposed to look after their men or die before them???
all above simply concludes that SAF Commanding attitude is the main culprit i.e. yaya papaya attitude who only knows how to NATO.....

what's the point of setting up committees after committees and investigations after investigations on the bloody systems when SAF remains to be immunity from their yayapapaya attitudes as status quo! that son-of-bitch who gave commands for operational without getting consensus/approvals on this topic - he should be hanged!
nowadays, these commanders behave as if they own the world during reservist, just becoz they had few more papers than others during the NS days.
or they take ICTs as their 'ventilation' holiday camps for they had been cooked-up by their bosses in their real world.

its the bloody attitude of these commanders that MUST be annihilated!
to do that, all commanders must be re-commissioned periodically!
else, it will soon become another Self-Audit-Force .....

 

[rushifa666]

I stopped reading after this sentence... he sounds like a smart Aleck. Don't get me wrong, i welcome qualified persons to poke holes at SAF's hocus pocus... but certainly not from this quack.

Blame the poster for choosing the most useless one. TOC has a good one. Go read it

 

[IndoMee]

Section 14 of the Government Proceeding Acts grants immunity to MINDEF or any of the SAF commanders or officers who may be involved
with any deaths or injuries of NSmen and NSFs against any civil suits.

CCB !

 

[LaoTze]

The post is removed already the bastards. Anyone saved it?

Raymond Ng
When I was serving the country as a soldier, I served in Control of Personnel Centre. During my stint, I received awards for productivity and process improvements signed by the then Chief of Army and also Dr Yeo Ning Hong.
Now I am serving as a Practising Management Consultant certified by a Board closely related to the government. My job concerns the design of management and operations systems for companies. The principles of business management & designing operating procedures for these tanks are the same.
When I am looking at the design of the Self-Propelled Howitzer, it is my opinion that the design is inherently dangerous and no amount of SOP design / redesign is going to change the fact that this is a dangerous vehicle.
1) In the press conference, one officer mentioned that CFC Pang could not get away in time. That is nonsense, that space should not be occupied at any point of time. Given that all the potential movement of the turret would crush anyone who is there, that space should be blocked off and only to be accessed (if ever) during repairs.
2) I remember some officer mentioned that "usually most people would not have problem". That is one sure way of pointing the blame at CFC Pang. That is nonsense.
I was not trained to be operating the Howitzer gun, so let me just exercise my commonsense a bit. Did the tank even take into account of the recoil effect when the turret is firing? To take into account of the recoil effect all the space behind the turret cannot be used at all and access blocked off saved for maintenance purposes.
3) One officer even mentioned that there is a procedure to sound an alarm or informing when the turret is moving. This is again nonsense, if CFC Pang is repairing the turret, he must be the one who can decide when the machine can be used.
A few of my peers who are in workplace safety has mentioned this practice known as LOTO (Lock out tag out) system, in which no officer of any rank should be able to override to operate the machine when there is a soldier repairing the machine.
The design of the turret is from ground up, wrong in my opinion, and let's not mince words. When the design of the system is wrong, no amount of SOP nonsense would be able to compensate for an inherently dangerous design.
All management consultants would be schooled in Deming Principle - when there is an operational problem, 94% of the time you can find fault with the systems and only 6% of the time the error is human.
Just basing on prima facie analysis of the design of the system, I am sorry the fault is with the design, so the fault is with the designer of the system and if the system is not locally designed the fault is with the person approving the purchase of this system.
Do not let SAF explain their way out of this. I am very infuriated by the press conference they have conducted. While they expressed their condolences, they did not take full responsibility for this.
All the other accidents I can explain away with logic and probability (like allergy to smoke bombs and stuff). This is totally avoidable and I want to see Singapore Armed Forces take full responsibility in this.
There is no way I can logically explain this away.