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2 X Bradley IFV vs T-90, lessons for the SAF

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
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So recently, there has been a video circulating of an armour engagement in Adiivka, Northeast Ukraine. In this video, a lone Russian T-90 ventures down a dirt road, and 2 M2 Bradleys out of sight in the video, opens up on it with their 25mm Bushmaster M242 auto-cannons. Looking at this from the viewpoint of a former tankee, who has never been to war, and many moons removed from his tank, several things can be noted. The T-90 is one of the newer Russian derivative of their venerable T-72 tank, with upgrades and one of the better Main Battle Tank out there.

The M242 cannon on the Bradleys can use 2 types of armour piercing ammo, namely the older M791 round, which is an APDS round, or the newer M919 which is an APFSDS round. Without knowing what type was used, it appears the high rate and accuracy of the Bradley fire panicked the crew of the T-90. I am sure some of the rounds, while not actually penetrating the tank armour, might have created a spalling effect inside the tank. This is where flakes of metal gets knocked off the inside of the tank due to the kinetic impact of the APFSDS 25mm round and start ricocheting inside the turret and crew compartment. This can injure or kill the crew. The T-90 is very well armoured and hence cannot be killed outright by a 25mm round. However, the rounds do strip away the Kontakt 5 ERA armour, and the high rate of fire could put several rounds into a part of the T-90 no longer protected by its ERA.

I also noted that at least one Bradley was shooting at the T-90 over its frontal arc, which is typically the most protected part of the tank. A Bradley shooting from the side or rear might have well achieved an actual kill. In any case, the T-90 crew reverse the tank to get out of the ambush area, and were either too disoriented or panicked, that they ran the tank into a tree and stalled it. It was later destroyed by a drone. In effect, the Bradley's had disabled the T-90 via a mobility kill. The Ukrainian Bradleys did all this with just their 25mm Bushmaster and did not use their TOW missiles.

What are the lessons for the SAF? The Bionix original used the same 25mm Bushmaster, and the later Bionix 2 uses the 30mm Bushmaster. At a range of 3000m, this gun can engage enemy armour at almost the same range as a T-90 or T-72 main gun. If the 25mm can disabled a relatively modern T-90, a 30mm Bushmaster using APFSDS ammo would be more effective. In particular against T-72 versions like the PT-91 Twardy. This gives AI battalions a larger measure of ability to engage enemy heavy armour without the need to call in a Leo 2. Given this example in Ukraine, the Bionix 2 alone should be able to defeat all known regional armour out there, including older versions of the Leo 2 like the A4. Survivability is another issue altogether. We know the Bradley is good in that, but we don't know what the Bionix 2 can do.
 
believe SAF doctrine is to kill muttland tank with apache. dominate the sky and set loose the apaches.
 
believe SAF doctrine is to kill muttland tank with apache. dominate the sky and set loose the apaches.
tiagong apache electro-optical target sensor (m-dsa) not effective in tropics and jungle environment. must upgrade to new m-dsa (modernized day sensor assembly). will provide near-infrared and color capability for better video resolution. match medium to narrow field of view of video from flir sensors (forward looking infrared nighttime vision) for better transition from day to night. will have picture-in-picture (available on latest mobile phones today). better stability for long range viewing. laser pointer mounted on gimbal. eye-safe lasing capability for urban environments.
 
tiagong apache electro-optical target sensor (m-dsa) not effective in tropics and jungle environment. must upgrade to new m-dsa (modernized day sensor assembly). will provide near-infrared and color capability for better video resolution. match medium to narrow field of view of video from flir sensors (forward looking infrared nighttime vision) for better transition from day to night. will have picture-in-picture (available on latest mobile phones today). better stability for long range viewing. laser pointer mounted on gimbal. eye-safe lasing capability for urban environments.
talk cock lah. how u know it's not effective in tropics. Apaches have been used in just about every environment out there.
 
talk cock lah. how u know it's not effective in tropics. Apaches have been used in just about every environment out there.
there was a technical report of sensor problem before 2016 when first tested in south east asian environment. the original m-dsa was first used in 1984, almost 40 years old. the older m-tads was even older, designed in the 70s.
 
there was a technical report of sensor problem before 2016 when first tested in south east asian environment. the original m-dsa was first used in 1984, almost 40 years old.
Oh please lah. Apaches have been operated and deploy to so many tropical countries like Guam, Japan, Taiwan, etc. I think they have been thru numerous live firing at ranges in these respective countries. They should have worked out all the kinks by now.
 
Oh please lah. Apaches have been operated and deploy to so many tropical countries like Guam, Japan, Taiwan, etc. I think they have been thru numerous live firing at ranges in these respective countries. They should have worked out all the kinks by now.
there are other more pressing issues on the apache not fully resolved yet. securing rotor blades with mega-nut (marines called it the jesus nut) on strap pack.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/armys-apache-helicopters-have-big-problem-52887
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-apache-helicopter-jesus-nut/
also, the goa report in 1991 on several issues including decline in reliability of “target acquisition and designation sight”, thus the redesign of the m-tads system to m-dsa.
https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-92-19.pdf
 
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Or just stop spending so much on useless military toys, you're not impressing anyone. For example, buying submarines for patrolling the shallow waters here. :rolleyes:
 
there are other more pressing issues on the apache not fully resolved yet. securing rotor blades with mega-nut (marines called it the jesus nut) on strap pack.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/armys-apache-helicopters-have-big-problem-52887
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-apache-helicopter-jesus-nut/
also, the goa report in 1991 on several issues including decline in reliability of “target acquisition and designation sight”, thus the redesign of the m-tads system to m-dsa.
https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-92-19.pdf
Wah, ok, why don't u call the RSAF and ask them to ground all their Apache helos. be sure to quote them all this crap
 
Or just stop spending so much on useless military toys, you're not impressing anyone. For example, buying submarines for patrolling the shallow waters here. :rolleyes:
The intend is not to impress anyone. The intend is to create new positions for scholar genitals so that in the future, the PAP can use these scholar genitals to place in positions of power and control the country. Plus the arms business is one of the most corrupt in the world. How much kickbacks has SAF personnel received?
 
Wah, ok, why don't u call the RSAF and ask them to ground all their Apache helos. be sure to quote them all this crap
saf doesn’t have same operational requirements like unker sam, which mean always deployed in forward bases in hostile territories and fighting terrorists and insurgents on several fronts. sexpensive toys are for ndp and display.
 
Stupid and useless SAF is only for NDP. Please do not put any pressure on them to do anything more.
 
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