Nicole Seah's faux pas

[Perspective]

I'm beginning to see some less positive responses, ie from Liangshan, CannonFairy, @rmadill0 etc. That is why I thought aloud how much the NS brand name could weather future storms. Unlike the seasoned WP, Nicole Seah is a single person "fresh from the oven".

Brocoli seems to think that NS is aiming for WP. I can't say for sure though it is unlikely to happen but while there are downsides, there are upsides. You tend to be vulnerable in a party where its potential candidates are fluid-behaving and last-minute, which unsurprisingly has always been typical of NSP and the opposition until LTK moved WP to consistency. Barisan started as an intact movement so it is different. NS is doing something in Macpherson, but she cannot ensure that 4 other good people will be given to her for Marine Parade.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

which role did GMS play during PE2011 then?

GMS and Ramseth played the role of Agent provocateur during PE2011.

But Ramseth felt it was morally repugnant and quit halfway. Kudos to him.

(Ok, I was kidding. Ramseth knew TKL would lose very badly, and so abandoned the project to save himself FACE. GMS stayed on and lost face. Kudos to GMS!!!!)

(OK, I am being sarcastic)

 

[zhihau]

don't be surprised that wp may lose this time.

试试看就知道 :d:d:d

 

[Perspective]

The chap seems to think that WP and everyone else are worried about:
1) 3CF
2) losing Hougang

No one has ever indicated such thing. It's the same syndrome as the chap who thinks everyone is preventing him from criticising WP.

NPD perhaps.

 

[zhihau]

No one has ever indicated such thing.

bro
truth to be told, me do favor a 3CF now purely for this reason. just to see how well every party scores :p:p:p

 

[Kinana]

Alamak, you can't see the intellect? This time I teach you for free. Next time you pay ok?

Even my insult is predicated on a logic. I'm asserting that you're stupid. I asked for your school, because I don't want to send my son there. But I'm not being fair to your school, because you stupidity could be hereditary and not necessary a failure of your school (or schools) to educate you. For all I know, we could be from the same school (or schools). Since there's no direct evidence that your stupidity is attributable to your school (or schools), my insinuation that your school (or schools) is fucked up, is baseless. I must therefore withdraw that comment and apologise to you. Sorry for that intellectual lapse on my part.

But my assertion that you're an idiot still stands. Of course, I welcome your rebuttal and proving me wrong, that you're not an intellectual bankrupt.

You see, you can only focus on insults when you lost the debate.

 

[Ramseth]

GMS and Ramseth played the role of Agent provocateur during PE2011.

But Ramseth felt it was morally repugnant and quit halfway. Kudos to him.

(Ok, I was kidding. Ramseth knew TKL would lose very badly, and so abandoned the project to save himself FACE. GMS stayed on and lost face. Kudos to GMS!!!!)

(OK, I am being sarcastic)

Summary of the whole story. At a time when PE looked like going to be a walkover, I introduced GMS and Locke to approach TKL to stand. Winning wasn't expected but just adverting another walkover with a good margin to send PAP a good message. TKL as an actuary, harbored no unrealistic expectation too. Of course, that was actuarial calculation behind the scene but in electoral politics, we all had to put a front as contesting to win to get as high a margin as possible.

Then in came TCB who announced that he wanted to stand too. Locke went over to the TCB camp. That was still alright, as a margin of 20 to 30% for TKL was still there since the bulk of the votes TCB was going to split away would be from TT. In fact, there was a high probability that TCB would win leaving TKL a good margin and a good pieces of cream pies on the faces TT and PAP. The whole scenario was disrupted when TJS was unexpectedly given a PE COE too.

The basic hard core no-need-campaigning 20% opposition votes would be split by TJS who had stood under SDP in GE. That's why he said TJS contesting was the "lowest point" in his life. I withdrew from a futile and meaningless campaign by then. GMS carried on with him. TKL as actuary knew that well in his heart. But he's also human and have feelings. He felt he was already in too deep to withdraw. The objective then became to score higher than TJS. He lost, and lost badly.

 

[Zombie]

The chap seems to think that WP and everyone else are worried about:
1) 3CF
2) losing Hougang
No one has ever indicated such thing.

frankly, i prefer to see both 1 and 2 happen...
nobody can then argue they chope the place first and wp can think about bigger places like tampines and MP..

 

[scroobal]

The summary is not right. Lets all bear in mind that he lost his deposit. Here are my views why he lost.

1) He does not know the meaning of "independent" when was a founding cadre member of the PAP, held the position for over 30 years and well past his retirement.
2) His statements, comments, views etc expressed in public painted him as an imbecile
3) His time in NTUC, the captive market provided for him, the swimming pool on top of the roof etc
4) He exceptionally poor spoken English despite holding a CEO post of a National entity, his poor articulation skills did not lend itself to the office of President
5) Asking for citizens to petition him to stand for PE suggest illusion of grandeur
6) there are probably many more things.

The issue is not TJS, TCB etc, the guy just did not have the gravitas to run a bubble tea shop. Despite being an actuary, if NTUC did not have him I don't think he would have made it. The fact that he attempted to sell batteries online suggest that he does not know what he is doing.

Nothing to do with the cut and thrust of politics, outfoxed or outgunned etc. The guy cannot make it. He was believing in his own bullshit. If you recall his online polls that he conducted where the results showed that he was beating TCB and others hands down. Explain to me how did a trained actuary fail to even secure his deposit?

Summary of the whole story. At a time when PE looked like going to be a walkover, I introduced GMS and Locke to approach TKL to stand. Winning wasn't expected but just adverting another walkover with a good margin to send PAP a good message. TKL as an actuary, harbored no unrealistic expectation too. Of course, that was actuarial calculation behind the scene but in electoral politics, we all had to put a front as contesting to win to get as high a margin as possible.

Then in came TCB who announced that he wanted to stand too. Locke went over to the TCB camp. That was still alright, as a margin of 20 to 30% for TKL was still there since the bulk of the votes TCB was going to split away would be from TT. In fact, there was a high probability that TCB would win leaving TKL a good margin and a good pieces of cream pies on the faces TT and PAP. The whole scenario was disrupted when TJS was unexpectedly given a PE COE too.

The basic hard core no-need-campaigning 20% opposition votes would be split by TJS who had stood under SDP in GE. That's why he said TJS contesting was the "lowest point" in his life. I withdrew from a futile and meaningless campaign by then. GMS carried on with him. TKL as actuary knew that well in his heart. But he's also human and have feelings. He felt he was already in too deep to withdraw. The objective then became to score higher than TJS. He lost, and lost badly.

 

[scroobal]

I don't think NS is aiming for WP. WP brand of politics would not appeal to her generation and that is why despite her uncle knowing LTK etc she went to RP. In fact there is a void for this sort of appeal now that KJ is self destructed. I suspect that she is waiting for another political party that fits that profile to appear. I won't be surprised if she, Jeanette and other like minded people are heading to form such a party. They however need a really strong anchor, who has appropriate standing and it cannot be TJS.

I'm beginning to see some less positive responses, ie from Liangshan, CannonFairy, @rmadill0 etc. That is why I thought aloud how much the NS brand name could weather future storms. Unlike the seasoned WP, Nicole Seah is a single person "fresh from the oven".

Brocoli seems to think that NS is aiming for WP. I can't say for sure though it is unlikely to happen but while there are downsides, there are upsides. You tend to be vulnerable in a party where its potential candidates are fluid-behaving and last-minute, which unsurprisingly has always been typical of NSP and the opposition until LTK moved WP to consistency. Barisan started as an intact movement so it is different. NS is doing something in Macpherson, but she cannot ensure that 4 other good people will be given to her for Marine Parade.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, Glenda Han and NS are poles are apart. I don't think anyone ever considered GH to be a political starship. She stood out as a chiobu and did not fit the profile of the usual opposition candidate. Thus she was conversation piece. If you notice her comments, his rally speeches and her general demeanour, she so far away from politics 101 that it is not funny. I don't think she is an asset to any team. Sorry to be frank but after all these years, nothing substantial surfaced and I don't it is going to surface either.

NS from her very first comments gave a very strong signal. This girl can play politics big time. Use of race, playing with passion, crying etc reminds me of old man in some ways. Note her latest comment and the double barrel shot at one pull. You are looking at a powder keg. What she needs is a strong party. And that party might surface in 2016.

TPL and GH came across as young females first and wannabe politicians second. Its the other way around with NSand it was wannabe either. This is despite the fact that she is the youngest.

More or less, I concur with everyone points that it is perhaps not a faux pas for her. Many seem to point to the signs that it is more a faux pas for NSP and others - simply because Nicole's political star shines brighter.

Which leads me to another observation. The whole thread discussions seems to lead to one thing - that "Nicole Seah" is an entity in its own right. A "starship" or brand name by itself. (And perhaps Nicole herself sees in this way as well.) Nicole is acting as a "personal organisation" in her own right and direction.

But there is a risk. We don't know what kind of "starship" is that - it certainly cannot be compared to the WP "starship" which is an organisation and a 50-year-old organisation that people recognise. Or how long this starship can fly.

In 2006, "Glenda Han" was somewhat a "starship" by itself, as much as it is a different league from NS. Still, the GH starship went to around 2008 - 2009 before out of fuel. Today, no one remembers GH in the same level and context as NS. What will happen to "the NS" 5 years later.

Secondly, these aren't likely to be team players, no matter how high their acumens are.

 

[wikiphile]

Bro, Glenda Han and NS are poles are apart. I don't think anyone ever considered GH to be a political starship. She stood out as a chiobu and did not fit the profile of the usual opposition candidate. Thus she was conversation piece. If you notice her comments, his rally speeches and her general demeanour, she so far away from politics 101 that it is not funny. I don't think she is an asset to any team. Sorry to be frank but after all these years, nothing substantial surfaced and I don't it is going to surface either.

NS from her very first comments gave a very strong signal. This girl can play politics big time. Use of race, playing with passion, crying etc reminds me of old man in some ways. Note her latest comment and the double barrel shot at one pull. You are looking at a powder keg. What she needs is a strong party. And that party might surface in 2016.

TPL and GH came across as young females first and wannabe politicians second. Its the other way around with NSand it was wannabe either. This is despite the fact that she is the youngest.

While both ladies have their own issues, NS has a bigger liability than GH at the moment - Belmont Lay

 

[Perspective]

I don't think NS is aiming for WP.

Same here.

But I think given Singapore's culture where everyone sides with the winner and the small population to add, I do think she will be a well-known individual name at most at least for the next 30 years, which by the time both her edge and looks will be gone. Hence unless she moves, she is as finished as she started, except for a burst of familiarity in some years of her life.

What I mean by that is, when PAP became dominant, the opposition could not even find a decent chap. Imagine that a population of 3 million isn't small either - no one came. Given that a small group of decent chaps finally came under WP, the rest of the opposition difficulties remain. People here are either PAP or WP. Here, I am not talking about degrees when referring to decent. TJS, Hazel, GMS, TKL are all degree holders, with one scholar. The scholar didn't even know the implications of her actions despite being the daughter of a Barisan senior member and grassroots hand.

Hence, such a strong anchor will not emerge for NS to flock too, as much as I don't like to say this, this kind of anchor will appear only in WP or if under any other party, will subsequently reveal that he/she isn't any strong anchor. This is dynamics. The contrasting paths and later-revealed characters between CSM and TJS is clear case. Reason is simple - a person who makes a choice between a party that appeals to himself/herself or a party that can actually be the best vehicle to serve the people shows where your loyalty lies - yourself of the people. Hence, NS is stuck with NSP or JSNP because no such anchor will emerge.

 

[Kinana]

The summary is not right. Lets all bear in mind that he lost his deposit. Here are my views why he lost.

1) He does not know the meaning of "independent" when was a founding cadre member of the PAP, held the position for over 30 years and well past his retirement.
2) His statements, comments, views etc expressed in public painted him as an imbecile
3) His time in NTUC, the captive market provided for him, the swimming pool on top of the roof etc
4) He exceptionally poor spoken English despite holding a CEO post of a National entity, his poor articulation skills did not lend itself to the office of President
5) Asking for citizens to petition him to stand for PE suggest illusion of grandeur
6) there are probably many more things.

The issue is not TJS, TCB etc, the guy just did not have the gravitas to run a bubble tea shop. Despite being an actuary, if NTUC did not have him I don't think he would have made it. The fact that he attempted to sell batteries online suggest that he does not know what he is doing.

Nothing to do with the cut and thrust of politics, outfoxed or outgunned etc. The guy cannot make it. He was believing in his own bullshit. If you recall his online polls that he conducted where the results showed that he was beating TCB and others hands down. Explain to me how did a trained actuary fail to even secure his deposit?

TKL does have an over inflated ego and it clearly showed during the PE.
I know of only two friends who voted for him but both told me they voted out of sympathy. I think KL should just shut up and disappear and enjoy his retirement. Better still, donate his wealth to the poor. don't talk about giving away money that he doesn't have yet.

 

[Ramseth]

The summary is not right. Lets all bear in mind that he lost his deposit. Here are my views why he lost.

1) He does not know the meaning of "independent" when was a founding cadre member of the PAP, held the position for over 30 years and well past his retirement.
2) His statements, comments, views etc expressed in public painted him as an imbecile
3) His time in NTUC, the captive market provided for him, the swimming pool on top of the roof etc
4) He exceptionally poor spoken English despite holding a CEO post of a National entity, his poor articulation skills did not lend itself to the office of President
5) Asking for citizens to petition him to stand for PE suggest illusion of grandeur
6) there are probably many more things.

You missed the tangent. My point is not going into details why he lost his deposit but rather, relating a summary of how he came into the fray. Anyway, to your points, you're mostly right or at least on grounds of contention. One thing, the roof-top swimming pool was for executives of all ranks to use. I and many former colleagues had swam there too, no problem. One thing I strongly agree with you and was the 100,000-signature petition campaign. I stayed out of that too.

 

[Perspective]

Bro, Glenda Han and NS are poles are apart. I don't think anyone ever considered GH to be a political starship. She stood out as a chiobu and did not fit the profile of the usual opposition candidate. Thus she was conversation piece. If you notice her comments, his rally speeches and her general demeanour, she so far away from politics 101 that it is not funny. I don't think she is an asset to any team. Sorry to be frank but after all these years, nothing substantial surfaced and I don't it is going to surface either.

As much as the two aren't the same in many ways and the conditions were different as to their emergence, I don't see them as "poles apart" in the "popularity puzzle" - just NS 5 years later in a "time machine".

 

[Kinana]

Bro, Glenda Han and NS are poles are apart. I don't think anyone ever considered GH to be a political starship. She stood out as a chiobu and did not fit the profile of the usual opposition candidate. Thus she was conversation piece. If you notice her comments, his rally speeches and her general demeanour, she so far away from politics 101 that it is not funny. I don't think she is an asset to any team. Sorry to be frank but after all these years, nothing substantial surfaced and I don't it is going to surface either.

NS from her very first comments gave a very strong signal. This girl can play politics big time. Use of race, playing with passion, crying etc reminds me of old man in some ways. Note her latest comment and the double barrel shot at one pull. You are looking at a powder keg. What she needs is a strong party. And that party might surface in 2016.

TPL and GH came across as young females first and wannabe politicians second. Its the other way around with NSand it was wannabe either. This is despite the fact that she is the youngest.

NS is too brash for her own good. She shld not have offended NSP leaders and TJS for nuts.
All parties will know now that this horse cannot be tamed and she will never be first choice working partner with any of the opposition party from now on. No boss will want to work with a kid like that.

 

[deepblue0911]

NS is too brash for her own good. She shld not have offended NSP leaders and TJS for nuts.
All parties will know now that this horse cannot be tamed and she will never be first choice working partner with any of the opposition party from now on. No boss will want to work with a kid like that.

But you still want to campaign for her in Hougang, no? So fast forget liao?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal,

The sad fact for the WP is that for it to make any headway an alliance of sorts has to be made between the Chinese Educated and the Liberal English Educated wings. Voters are both aspirational, " voting for people who they aspire to be", inspirational " voting for people who inspire them and "relational" voting for people who are one us.

Moulmein Kallang was not the Jalan Besar of old but took into it swathes of old money and yuppified Newton and Balestier. The same applies to East Coast and its yuppified electorate. Skoppogol hit it on the nail with his tale about the mistrust of the English educated based on the Nantah issue. NS appeals in every single way with this crowd, her touch with speeches, sincerity , and English background shines through.

What form that alliance takes, the manner the relationship works has to be worked out internally much as how the PAP has worked it out with its Chinese educated base. WP in a similar form has to come to terms with that alliance.


Locke

I don't think NS is aiming for WP. WP brand of politics would not appeal to her generation and that is why despite her uncle knowing LTK etc she went to RP. In fact there is a void for this sort of appeal now that KJ is self destructed. I suspect that she is waiting for another political party that fits that profile to appear. I won't be surprised if she, Jeanette and other like minded people are heading to form such a party. They however need a really strong anchor, who has appropriate standing and it cannot be TJS.

 

[Kinana]

But you still want to campaign for her in Hougang, no? So fast forget liao?

If she choses to I will. Her mouth is better than WP mouths in parliament