[GPGT] GOH MENG SENG criticise Chen Show Mao speech + responses from netizens

[Goh Meng Seng]

I don't have such information on what happened after debate but I feel that the WP MPs will have to attend debating classes to up their skills.

Gerald Giam's personal failure aside, the whole WP has failed to capitalize on this parliamentary debate. The worst thing is that WP has been painted as "having same idea as PAP", "not so different from PAP" and most important of all, has been cornered totally and it would be totally impossible for them to cry father cry mother about the million dollar pay for ministers again because they themselves have shown to propose similar formula which end up with million dollar pay ministers as well. This is politically disastrous.

Most intriguing is that both LTK and Sylvia Lim have stayed TOTALLY silent and WP MPs have not been giving each other support fire during the debates. This lack of team spirit and team coordination underlie a more worrying signs of WP as an effective opposition in parliament.

In short PAP 1 WP 0

Goh Meng Seng

you know .... as much as i hate to admit ....

you are right....

the massacre actually did not stop there ....@ what you see on TV... off screen after that in parliament

he was actually reprimanded like a school boy by BG tan .... and Heng Chee How join in , although Heng Chee How was like a kind principal compare to the tough macho guy BG Tan who like a sibei siao on guardman....

 

[brocoli]

I don't have such information on what happened after debate but I feel that the WP MPs will have to attend debating classes to up their skills.

Gerald Giam's personal failure aside, the whole WP has failed to capitalize on this parliamentary debate. The worst thing is that WP has been painted as "having same idea as PAP", "not so different from PAP" and most important of all, has been cornered totally and it would be totally impossible for them to cry father cry mother about the million dollar pay for ministers again because they themselves have shown to propose similar formula which end up with million dollar pay ministers as well. This is politically disastrous.

Most intriguing is that both LTK and Sylvia Lim have stayed TOTALLY silent and WP MPs have not been giving each other support fire during the debates. This lack of team spirit and team coordination underlie a more worrying signs of WP as an effective opposition in parliament.

Goh Meng Seng

I was there so I am telling you.... but it was not after the debate .... but really the 2nd part of the debate which they did not show on tv... maybe you can find it on CNA website

but it is not politically disastrous unbless they wan to be opp forever.... obviously they are already thinking of being ministers themselves and if they suggest drastic cut now.... they will be slapping themselves in the future

like what ah gong did here.....

 

[sleaguepunter]

For WP to claim that they also believe in "competitive wage" is already a step towards self destruction because not many Singaporeans earn $11K per month! And in order to have "competitive wages", you will have to "price" your salary competitively to the market... those who is earning $11k as well! And $11k is DEFINITELY NOT a common man's salary scale!

As the Hokkien saying goes, kiang jiu hor, mai kei kiang!

Goh Meng Seng

while i admit $10k per month is not a "common" man salary but there are many ppl (sporeans, PRs, FTs) earning this income. it at least a couple hundred thousand of the population earning that figure, is that many enough for u?

u can kpkb about WP MPs preformance but no need to talk big about what u will do if u in their position because the majority of the voters rejected u. if u r good, it would have be u in parliment on national tv showing the bird to the pap but instead of doing a "horse behind the canon" after watching the debate on tv.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Well, the problem WP is facing totally different from Ah Gong. Ah Gong didn't trip himself while proposing something he could not do. But WP has triple tripped themselves all over the place before they could convince anyone about them being DIFFERENT and CAPABLE of putting up sound policies.

Goh Meng Seng

I was there so I am telling you....

but it is not politically disastrous unbless they wan to be opp forever.... obviously they are already thinking of being ministers themselves and if they suggest drastic cut now.... they will be slapping themselves in the future

like what ah gong did here.....

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Well, only time will tell. The only thing could stay permanently true is constant change. Taking voters' support for granted is the worst attitude which PAP has entrenched themselves. Hope that WP is not that "similar" to PAP in this context as well.

The cup is either half full or half empty when you are talking about support. 57% didn't support me but 43% has supported me as well. Of course, not enough to get into parliament but that doesn't mean "rejection". Never mind, this is not the point. It doesn't wash away the fact that the poor performance of WP team is so much glaring.

Goh Meng Seng

while i admit $10k per month is not a "common" man salary but there are many ppl (sporeans, PRs, FTs) earning this income. it at least a couple hundred thousand of the population earning that figure, is that many enough for u?

u can kpkb about WP MPs preformance but no need to talk big about what u will do if u in their position because the majority of the voters rejected u. if u r good, it would have be u in parliment on national tv showing the bird to the pap but instead of doing a "horse behind the canon" after watching the debate on tv.

 

[brocoli]

Well, only time will tell. The only thing could stay permanently true is constant change. Taking voters' support for granted is the worst attitude which PAP has entrenched themselves. Hope that WP is not that "similar" to PAP in this context as well.

The cup is either half full or half empty when you are talking about support. 57% didn't support me but 43% has supported me as well. Of course, not enough to get into parliament but that doesn't mean "rejection". Never mind, this is not the point. It doesn't wash away the fact that the poor performance of WP team is so much glaring.

Goh Meng Seng

you are right .... but a week is eternity in politics..... we were just raving bout show mao 2 days back and now this.... so GMS, dun be too heypi to draw conclusion yet

 

[Fook Seng]

It doesn't matter to me if I know MX9 or not but I do know super scale civil servant pay is pegged to the top income earners, not the "general public salary scale".
Goh Meng Seng

Although I do agree with you that the benchmark should not be a salary that can be easily manipulated and anything that can be decisively fixed by the ruling party should be avoided, however I find it hard to believe that the super scale civil servant's pay is fixed in a strict way to the top income earners. What is the formula used? I would imagine the level of pay for a position like this would have been subjectively set to a ballpark figure that is viewed as OK with respect to the general perception of what a good salary is.

I also came across some instances, at one time, that the pay packages in the stat boards (i.e. public service?) were higher than the top pay in the civil service.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Well, I didn't really cry hysterically like someone did when I heard CSM's speech. Cut off the political rhetoric, what he has suggested didn't really match the much hype rhetoric he has been drumming.

I hate to say this, DPM Teo is right. What WP has proposed is in principle, UNWITTINGLY, almost 100% the same as the review committee. There are just a few minor differences like number of months of bonuses but in a macro perspective, the quantum of salary is still in the very high side. i.e. even the entry level ministerial pay proposed by WP is still WORLD TOP, more than the second highest leader, HK Chief Executive.

What PAP didn't attack is the possibility of abuse or conflict of interests when such peg is done at the civil servant pay scale. PAP is actually holding back fire in this aspect but yet, it has trashed WP totally. PAP is clever to use the softer approach to corner WP into the mind frame that "you are same as us" to disarm them from future attacks on their high ministerial salaries!

WP has lost quite badly in this battle, really.

Goh Meng Seng

you are right .... but a week is eternity in politics..... we were just raving bout show mao 2 days back and now this.... so GMS, dun be too heypi to draw conclusion yet

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Actually, it doesn't matter if it is pegged to the top 1000 earners or not; the most important thing is that the group which the senior civil servant pay is pegged, do they have SIMILAR characteristic like the group of top 1000 earners? i.e. do their salaries grow as fast as the top 1000 which is very much FASTER than the normal man on the street? That's the crux of the matter.

Goh Meng Seng

Although I do agree with you that the benchmark should not be a salary that can be easily manipulated and anything that can be decisively fixed by the ruling party should be avoided, however I find it hard to believe that the super scale civil servant's pay is fixed in a strict way to the top income earners. What is the formula used? I would imagine the level of pay for a position like this would have been subjectively set to a ballpark figure that is viewed as OK with respect to the general perception of what a good salary is.

I also came across some instances, at one time, that the pay packages in the stat boards (i.e. public service?) were higher than the top pay in the civil service.

 

[brocoli]

Well, I didn't really cry hysterically like someone did when I heard CSM's speech. Cut off the political rhetoric, what he has suggested didn't really match the much hype rhetoric he has been drumming.

Goh Meng Seng

when said we were just raving bout ... i obviously didnt include you in the "we"....

anyway what make you different from nice-gook and other forumers... stop being a alan shearer... any1 can be a pundit, when you are returning to the dugout....???

 

[brocoli]

Actually, it doesn't matter if it is peg to the top 1000 earners or not; the most important thing is that the group which the senior civil servant pay is pegged, do they have SIMILAR characteristic like the group of top 1000 earners? i.e. do their salaries grow as fast as the top 1000 which is very much FASTER than the normal man on the street? That's the crux of the matter.

Goh Meng Seng

srsly i really dun wan to minister to be "normal man on the street"

chiam see tong proposal is still the best ..... after all these year ... landed , 2 cars, a maid... and so on and so for...

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

BTW, there isn't any "horse behind the canon" thing here. Right from the first day of debate, I have already pointed out the flaws in WP's proposal and the potential attacks PAP may launch against its proposal with respect to these flaws. The most glaring one is of course, your proposal is the same as mine. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Goh Meng Seng

u can kpkb about WP MPs preformance but no need to talk big about what u will do if u in their position because the majority of the voters rejected u. if u r good, it would have be u in parliment on national tv showing the bird to the pap but instead of doing a "horse behind the canon" after watching the debate on tv.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

DPM Teo has cleverly used a diversion skill in debate by shifting focus to his opponent's weakness. Gerald Giam has unwittingly fallen to that trick. Gerald has asked a good question but he didn't put it across in the wise way. He should ask, according to past data (10 or 20 years), is the growth rate of MX9 salary higher than the general public salary?

DPM Teo cannot shy away from this question by acting ignorant because he should have the past datas. From there, Gerald could attack either ways....if it is higher, then just say if WP is the ruling party, this will not be so and the formula to determine the MX9 salary would be reviewed as well. If it is lower, then ask DPM Teo, as compared to the Top 1000, this is totally different! But this is a missed opportunity

 

[brocoli]

DPM Teo has cleverly used a diversion skill in debate by shifting focus to his opponent's weakness. Gerald Giam has unwittingly fallen to that trick. Gerald has asked a good question but he didn't put it across in the wise way. He should ask, according to past data (10 or 20 years), is the growth rate of MX9 salary higher than the general public salary?

DPM Teo cannot shy away from this question by acting ignorant because he should have the past datas. From there, Gerald could attack either ways....if it is higher, then just say if WP is the ruling party, this will not be so and the formula to determine the MX9 salary would be reviewed as well. If it is lower, then ask DPM Teo, as compared to the Top 1000, this is totally different! But this is a missed opportunity

dun be a pundit... get into the dugout and show us what you got...

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I am now just a "political observer". Relax lah!

Goh Meng Seng

dun be a pundit... get into the dugout and show us what you got...

 

[brocoli]

I am now just a "political observer". Relax lah!

Goh Meng Seng

you wan to share what you see that make you make the disunity comment ??????

I am no mindless insect....

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

That is not within my interest to comment about that. That is for those inside to experience and be enlightened themselves.

Goh Meng Seng

you wan to share what you see that make you make the disunity comment ??????

I am no mindless insect....

 

[brocoli]

That is not within my interest to comment about that. That is for those inside to experience and be enlightened themselves.

Goh Meng Seng

cannot PM me meh ... you dun have to be too specific ???

so I need to join the WP just to satisfy my curiousity????

but my goal ish really to tranformed the socialist front from within....

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Just too bad, you will have to join to see for yourself.

Goh Meng Seng

cannot PM me meh ... you dun have to be too specific ???

so I need to join the WP just to satisfy my curiousity????

but my goal ish really to tranformed the socialist front from within....

 

[Fook Seng]

Nowhere did I say that the whole freakin' Island had no electricity.

If you're going to start putting words in my mouth, civilized debate is not possible.

I think both parties have lost sight of the fact that there is indeed agreement that there was a change when Singapore changed from a colony to an independent nation.

While a colony, Singapore was treated somewhat worse than how Hongkong was treated. In fact, even Yangon, under the British administration in India, was more developed than Singapore. All you need to do is to go to Yangon today and look at all the colonial buildings still standing that have been left over by the British.

So although much of the credit for the change rested with the young government fronted by the PAP, the British should share part of the credit for their earlier neglect. I don't see much argument on that.

More relevant is what is PAP's performance after that, in particularly, in the last 10 to 15 years.