CPF minimum sum to be revised upwards to S$131,000

[dankos]

I travel all the freaking time, U are assuming I am now in the same time zone as U are and what makes you think I'm not on leave right now. In any case, go ahead, I am VERY curious to see which MD you will be sending the email to since there isn't 1 in my company. BTW I am in IT Department, what makes you think the email will get through me in the first place

Ironically your actions proves that
1)You're nothing but a hypocrite who doesn't believe in free speech.
2)PAP was right, pple on the internet are assholes and should be control, restricted and censored

fat ass

looks like i m freaking u out now. u try to blk my email to your bosses? never mind. can always sent it by the good old mail. to top it, i will sent it to all your regional offices as well. make it big ok.

of cos whatever pap says is right to u. u r a pap dog remember? u need to suck pap balls on a daily basis to live. :oIo::oIo:

 

[Char_Azn]

So in your opinion you would rather say "Yes its depleted lets increase further the minimum sum"

The whole reason for the minimum sum to be in place is to ensure that we have enough money for the monthly pay out after retirement. Right now the projected figure is a pay out of 1.1K if a minimum sum of 131K is reached. 1.1K is not a lot but it is enough. There is little to no point of having a CPF scheme, at all, if we are unable to get enough money for the pay out required. I stated was that the minimum sum needs to be adjusted for inflation. If the minimum sum e.g. stays at 1987 level of 30K, when we retire really need to jiak sai liao.

And thanks for pointing out the link, the revision for the payout is to push the minimum sum equivalent to 120K back in 2003(adjusting for inflation) by 2013. That would put the amount to around the region of 150K by 2013 assuming 3% annual inflation. By which time the % of pple able to hit the minimum sum will go up again

Something I didn't realize this before, and again thanks for pointing it out. Minimum sum can use property to cover up to 50% meaning the money you spend buying your house using CPF money. Which basically puts just about everyone able to meet the minimum sum by the time they retire. My previous calculation only took into account cash and not property

 

[dankos]

fat ass,

all your fucking calculations cannot be believe. cpf ms rose from 80k in 2003 to 131k in 2011. and yet your cheebye calculator and lancheow mind work out this increase to be only a total 6.1% over 8 years. this shows how fucking stupid u r.:oIo::oIo::oIo: how can any1 believe what u a pui cheeebye retard says.:oIo:

stop trying to impress here with your excel speadsheet and long winded replies. btw, u say u overseas? but your receptionist say u r in leh

 

[dankos]

They rise it by a grand total of 6.1 percent in 8 years!!!! Wow that's SOOOOOoooooooo high. Assuming it somehow manage to reach 250K by the time U and I retire, that's a whopping $275 in your special account every month.

which dumbfuck genius said this?

oh that pui cheebye fat ass charlatan dog

 

[Char_Azn]

btw, u say u overseas? but your receptionist say u r in leh

I never knew my office had a receptionist. U sure U got the right office?

 

[dankos]

I never knew my office had a receptionist. U sure U got the right office?

fat ass,

dunno right or not. perhaps other forummers can try the number in my signature. just ask for fat ass aka eric lum.

 

[Silencer]

Char_Azn

Right now the projected figure is a pay out of 1.1K if a minimum sum of 131K is reached. 1.1K is not a lot but it is enough. There is little to no point of having a CPF scheme, at al

Right but have you asked why $131K yield only $1.1K/mth only to be drawn at age 65 !

Basically, the state is pushing away it's liability and responsibilities out to citizens to fend for themselves.
What happen if one is in a dire strait from age 55 to 65, what is he going to rely on ?

There must be a compromise between the state and the people.
Why calculate the payment right up to age 85 and more when Singapore life expectancy is on 80.1 years old and
lesser still for the male at 77 years old.

As said those that are able to live to that ripe old age will most likely be blessed with supportive family members and/or has the resources to meet his aging and health needs.

Those that live beyond 77 years old and will fall through the cracks will not be many.
As in our PA scheme, there are only about 3,000 + aged and the infirm that rely on "state assist welfare:.
We have a population of over 5 over millions now and a very BIG nest egg.
Am not advocating wasting it, but the interest of the interest would most likely sustain those above that age and need
help.

So why is the state pushing back draw down age and increasing the minimum sum ?
There lies the question.

 

[tonychat]

CPF minimum sum to be revised upwards to S$131,000

Sinkies totally deserve it for being a ball-less freaking shit. Wahahhahaha, i think $131,000 is too little how about making it $331,000 since sinkies are addicted to ass-screwing.

 

[SIFU]

Sinkies totally deserve it for being a ball-less freaking shit. Wahahhahaha, i think $131,000 is too little how about making it $331,000 since sinkies are addicted to ass-screwing.

CB kia tonychat,

thaksin's sister is going to be the next pm of thailand and there is nothing u can do about it.

too bad i cannot see your cock face when the results are being announced. after that yellow's turn to protest. after that red again. good to see thailand in eternal turmoil.

 

[Char_Azn]

Char_Azn



Right but have you asked why $131K yield only $1.1K/mth only to be drawn at age 65 !

Basically, the state is pushing away it's liability and responsibilities out to citizens to fend for themselves.
What happen if one is in a dire strait from age 55 to 65, what is he going to rely on ?

There must be a compromise between the state and the people.
Why calculate the payment right up to age 85 and more when Singapore life expectancy is on 80.1 years old and
lesser still for the male at 77 years old.

As said those that are able to live to that ripe old age will most likely be blessed with supportive family members and/or has the resources to meet his aging and health needs.

Those that live beyond 77 years old and will fall through the cracks will not be many.
As in our PA scheme, there are only about 3,000 + aged and the infirm that rely on "state assist welfare:.
We have a population of over 5 over millions now and a very BIG nest egg.
Am not advocating wasting it, but the interest of the interest would most likely sustain those above that age and need
help.

So why is the state pushing back draw down age and increasing the minimum sum ?
There lies the question.

I already stated I agree flexibility on age of withdrawal is needed so I won't bother discussing that too in depth. just to reiterate my stand on this. The withdrawal should set a target for when the last withdrawal age is which at this point is 85. Someone who has reach 55 or at any point until retirement age of 65 should be allowed to choose to start getting their pay out assuming the amt in his account can sustain the targeted payout till the age of 85.

As for pple struggling and need to withdraw at the age of 55 - 65, again, back to the topic of why the scheme is there in the first place, to ensure a steady income for pple who have retire. Allowing everyone to have the option to take out the money for emergencies will defeat the purpose. There will always be pple who are in need of money, be it at 40/50/60, should we then allow this group to also withdraw the money? At the risk of sounding heartless, the CPF is not a bank, it is a retirement fund. Their job is to make sure you have enough money after retirement to see to your needs, not to be there for you to withdraw money if need be. Yes, ultimately it is our money but it is their job to safe guard it and ensure we do not fall to temptation of withdrawing the money and find it lacking in the future

On another note, by the time someone reach the age of 55, it is more then likely they have fully paid or nearly paid their house in full. There is always the option to downgrade to a cheaper apartment/sell the apartment and leave with the kids and use the proceeds to tide them over which is the whole idea of HDB asset enhancement in the first place.

 

[Silencer]

Char_Azn

You still did not get the gist of what I mean.

1. The Singapore life expectancy if 80.1 years old, Male is 77 years old.

Why fixed at 85 ?
Safety precaution for the state ?
We have boasted our Foreign reserves to be at US$225 Billions as at 2010.
You good are maths, do the interest at 2% and take that interest interest and
see how much it is.
We are presently spending only S$14.4 million on the PA scheme !

2. Currently if you are able to meet your MS, you will get $1,170.00.

Whose comfort figure is that when;
a. When the Public Assistance allowance is only $400.00 ?
b. When our office holders get their pension at age 50 when still serving and at age 55 if they leave the service. Aren't they in a better position to receive later ?
c. With pension who care about their CPFs but then why is their Special account contribution lesser than the common folks with the bulk of it into their Ordinary account and why their CPF wage ceiling at $6,666.67 when ours is at $5,000.00 come 1st September.

It is well known that Singapore has the most millionaires but most do not know that most if not all is tied up in assets.

You encourage selling and downgrading, how you downgrade from a 2 or 3 room.
If you have not dependant then how and what makes you think all children will accommodate their parents - if that is the case do one still need the high minimum sum ?

Now as it is the minimum sum is an alarming amount what is there to stop them from increasing the drawn down age from 65 to 75 or 85 and the MS from $150K to $500K ?

There must be a clear transparency and a median and amicable solution for all to meet instead of enslaving the nation of which many would not live to see let alone feel it in their bones.

Talking when one is able is easy.

 

[Char_Azn]

Char_Azn

You still did not get the gist of what I mean.

1. The Singapore life expectancy if 80.1 years old, Male is 77 years old.

Why fixed at 85 ?
Safety precaution for the state ?
We have boasted our Foreign reserves to be at US$225 Billions as at 2010.
You good are maths, do the interest at 2% and take that interest interest and
see how much it is.
We are presently spending only S$14.4 million on the PA scheme !

2. Currently if you are able to meet your MS, you will get $1,170.00.

Whose comfort figure is that when;
a. When the Public Assistance allowance is only $400.00 ?
b. When our office holders get their pension at age 50 when still serving and at age 55 if they leave the service. Aren't they in a better position to receive later ?
c. With pension who care about their CPFs but then why is their Special account contribution lesser than the common folks with the bulk of it into their Ordinary account and why their CPF wage ceiling at $6,666.67 when ours is at $5,000.00 come 1st September.

It is well known that Singapore has the most millionaires but most do not know that most if not all is tied up in assets.

You encourage selling and downgrading, how you downgrade from a 2 or 3 room.
If you have not dependant then how and what makes you think all children will accommodate their parents - if that is the case do one still need the high minimum sum ?

Now as it is the minimum sum is an alarming amount what is there to stop them from increasing the drawn down age from 65 to 75 or 85 and the MS from $150K to $500K ?

There must be a clear transparency and a median and amicable solution for all to meet instead of enslaving the nation of which many would not live to see let alone feel it in their bones.

Talking when one is able is easy.

First off, the life expectancy for males is 79.3 and female is 84.1. Your stats are outdated
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/keyind.html

The reserves I will not discuss here too much. Just some quick comments on this. Unlike countries the EU nations where the EU will bail them out and HK who needed China to bail them out more then once. We are surrounded by neighbors who can't even save themselves in times of trouble. All we have are our own reserves. Just look at the US to see how much their debt has increase since the 08 crisis to get an idea of how much money we may potentially need to dig ourselves out should we fall. The world will not allow the US to fail as the global economy depends on it, but would anyone even bat an eyelid if something were to happen to us? Are U willing to take that chance? 2% interest of $225 Billion, yeah that's a lot, but like everything else, the reserves is still subjected to inflation. Without that 2-3% increase every year, very soon it will become worthless.

2ndly, a)the region of $1000 is a fair amt for most pple. The difference between someone living on the PA scheme and the average joe like U and I is that whatever they are using is highly subsidized. Is $400 enough? Maybe but Probably not. I am not going to debate on it, that's totally off topic. The fact of the matter is, most of the stuff that we have to pay, utility bills etc, are highly subsidized for that particular group. They do not need to pay utility bills upwards of $200, I do. They do not need to pay conservancy fees. I do. Taking into account, my monthly bills, food and higher medical bills by the time I get to that age, yes $1000 in today's money sounds right. I don't know who or how they do the math, it is however not that far off.
b and c)Is it fair and are they in a better position to get it later, no and yes. Do I care, Hell No. Why? Coz I have no f**king pension, I care about my CPF

I do not encourage selling or downgrading, it's an option for desperate pple. For someone who does not have a dependent and live in a 3 rm flat hence have no option to downgrade, here's a thought, rent out the empty rm. They live alone or with his/her spouse with no dependent, that means they have an empty room.

Finally I already stated my stand on the age. It needs to be flexible. Not going to repeat what I already said multiple times

 

[Silencer]

Char_Azn

1. The Reserves, you got it wrong again.
Am leaving it all intact even the 2% interest.
Only taking the 2% Interest's interest at 2% again to fund PA needs.

USD225B approx = SGD281B @ 2%pa = SGD5.6B
2% interest of SGD5.6B = SGD112.5M
Say at $500 (current is $400) can help 18,750 person yearly.
(Currently around 3,000 plus)

2. You again assumed your lifestyle needs against the general populace.
One can't expect everyone to own a car although majority has one.
Some rich children would asked - why can't they afford ?
There lies the problem !

Refer you to the CPF Life

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/F540570D-A107-488F-A295-67E128643210/0/CPFLIFE_FAQ.pdf

It claimed that in 2007 at age 65 some 66% would live to age 80.
Out of that 66%, 48% would live to 85 years old or more.

It is blatant misrepresentation !

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/demo.html
(click the excel spreadsheet on the right, goto table 1.6 & see year 2007)

DOS shows in 2007 figures as such;

Age 65-69 = 113,800
Age 70-74 = 78,600
Age 75-79 = 56,700
Age 80-84 = 31,500
Age 85 up = 24,900

At age range 65-69 (which is a wide band) there is 113,800.
66% would be 75,108 to be at age 80.
We got at age 80-84 only 31,500 living which is only about 28% !

48% of the initial 66% to live beyond age 85 would be 36,051.
We got only 24,900 for that range which just a little above 33% !

So the whole Singapore population is cast into a system to make the 24,900 people self reliance and self provision !
That is less than 0.7% of 2010 population making 99.3% being needless locked in for a policy for the micro minority !

They say using the reserves is not sustainable, Yes for the whole lot.
But as shown from the above the interest from interest alone can sustain more than 64% (18,750 @ $500/month) for year 2010 age 85 and above which is 29,200.

As said, those who live to that ripe old age would either be blessed with supportive family members and/or have sufficient wealth to see them through.
Hence, believe the percentage that need monetary assistance at that age 85 and above would likely be much lesser.

Furthermore, earlier as highlighted only 40.7% are able to meet the full MS.
So what happen to the rest of the 60% - do they go a begging ?

NO !

 

[Einfield]

Like HDB, CPF is also someting ment to benifit Citizen, somewhere along the way, Greed creeps in and it turn into a ponzi Scheme and the benifactor switch from the citizen to you know who.

Cone 2016, vote opposition, there's no other way out.

another proof, CPF is but a ponzi game.................can't pay out so play delaying game

 

[Char_Azn]

1)Already stated I'm not going to address PA or reserve issue in here since it's off topic

2)Is $1100 really too much?

Here's a list of what the most pple are probably paying on a monthly basis.
Conservancy Fees:50
Utility Bills: $200
Food: 3 meals * $4 * 30 days = $360
Transportation: $50
Phone + HP + Internet bill: $80
Cable TV: $40

That's already close to $800. Doesn't seem like I can fit a car in there. Are you going to stop watching TV, stop using the internet or stop using your HP just because you retire? Yeah I didn't think so. Factor in the higher cost of medical bills when U grow older and yes +/-$1000 is not that ridiculous to ask for. You should not be comparing the average person with someone getting PA, Besides having highly subsidized everything, unless U wanna assume everyone is planning to live from hand to mouth, most of us would want to retain a lifestyle close to what we are currently enjoying.

The thing about Life expectancy, it goes up every year. On the average, 0.2 yr per annum. Even if I use the figure of 0.1, by the time U and I retire in another 20-30 years, that will go up again. However I do agree with the age factor, which is why I said it for the third time now replying to your post, AGE SHOULD BE FLEXIBLE!!!! I don't know if you choose to ignore the statement regarding age or that which I stated I agreed with U. In any case, I AGREE WITH U IN THAT ASPECT!!!!

 

[Silencer]

Char_Azn

You are truly fixated on the monthly drawn sum that the CPF would bring without thinking of how it is being
formulated and what system it is being derived.

Without argument as long as it is passable, you would just accept so long as you
are in a position meet the 40.7 percentile. Good for you !

That's already close to $800. Doesn't seem like I can fit a car in there. Are you going to stop watching TV, stop using the internet or stop using your HP just because you retire? Yeah I didn't think so. Factor in the higher cost of medical bills when U grow older and yes +/-$1000 is not that ridiculous to ask for. You should not be comparing the average person with someone getting PA, Besides having highly subsidized everything, unless U wanna assume everyone is planning to live from hand to mouth, most of us would want to retain a lifestyle close to what we are currently enjoying.

Do you think the balance of the 60% who did not meet the Minimum Sum balance do not have your lifestyle or own a car ?
Do you seriously think they without the $1,170 do not have a TV etc ... so ?

Your assumption of that, totally without the monthly payment from CPF all will go
to PA or the state for hand out is a farce from the start and a bogey man.

What am trying to emphasize is that we should re-look at;

1. The retirement age and bring the AWHL inline with it accordingly.
2. Lessen the end 85 age projection to 80 but 78 would be better.
(with that we lessen the holding amount - annuities is up to the insurances to
negotiate rather then state collaboration)
3. Need be, increase Minimum Sum age target from 55 to 60.
4. Medisave make more accessible the fund for old age heath screening,
medical/hospitalization co-payment insurances and dental care.

By lessening the top and bringing up the bottom it gives the people more time
to pay up their housing loan and letting more people meet the lessen minimum sum target.
And, maybe we could achieved 60% people meeting it instead of 40.7%.

What is so wrong with the state assuring the citizens that it would take care of
them if they fell through the cracks after the age of 80 without any dependent
or asset.

As shown earlier the number of people making it to 80 and well above 85 if few and far about 0.7% of the population
and if they need to source for funding look not further from the Foreign Reserve interest's interest.
Btw, there is another S$186 billion in national reserves with Temasek that is not taken into account.

It makes good politic rather then brew hatred to go on the notion of letting the people be self-reliance
or self-provision which are in a better term - you die your problem.

 

[Bigfuck]

Char_Azn

You are truly fixated on the monthly drawn sum that the CPF would bring without thinking of how it is being
formulated and what system it is being derived.

Without argument as long as it is passable, you would just accept so long as you
are in a position meet the 40.7 percentile. Good for you !



Do you think the balance of the 60% who did not meet the Minimum Sum balance do not have your lifestyle or own a car ?
Do you seriously think they without the $1,170 do not have a TV etc ... so ?

Your assumption of that, totally without the monthly payment from CPF all will go
to PA or the state for hand out is a farce from the start and a bogey man.

What am trying to emphasize is that we should re-look at;

1. The retirement age and bring the AWHL inline with it accordingly.
2. Lessen the end 85 age projection to 80 but 78 would be better.
(with that we lessen the holding amount - annuities is up to the insurances to
negotiate rather then state collaboration)
3. Need be, increase Minimum Sum age target from 55 to 60.
4. Medisave make more accessible the fund for old age heath screening,
medical/hospitalization co-payment insurances and dental care.

By lessening the top and bringing up the bottom it gives the people more time
to pay up their housing loan and letting more people meet the lessen minimum sum target.
And, maybe we could achieved 60% people meeting it instead of 40.7%.

What is so wrong with the state assuring the citizens that it would take care of
them if they fell through the cracks after the age of 80 without any dependent
or asset.

As shown earlier the number of people making it to 80 and well above 85 if few and far about 0.7% of the population
and if they need to source for funding look not further from the Foreign Reserve interest's interest.
Btw, there is another S$186 billion in national reserves with Temasek that is not taken into account.

It makes good politic rather then brew hatred to go on the notion of letting the people be self-reliance
or self-provision which are in a better term - you die your problem.

He is not very bright and argumentative. Historical fact has indicated that the MS has been adjusted at 6.36% annually and he is counting 2% adjustment. There was some mention of 3-4% inflation by someone but if you sit down and do simple math compounding, you will know that Market analyst put Singapore inflation at 4 to 6%. Since MS takes into consideration of so called "inflation adjustment", how come now raises the question of inflation adjustment for you retirement monthly payout?

 

[karmabear]

CharAzn is simply not honest in his analysis. That's all. He talks about HDB asset enhancement where you can sell your house and live with your kids... What the fuck? Even if property prices are 50% of current levels, you also can sell your house and live with your kids. What kind of fucked up logic is that? Asset enhancement is simply another word for decimating the purchasing power of the population. Totally dishonest.

Fucked piece of shit. What working for mining company? Imerys process diatomaceous earth... Fossilised Plankton. It's used as pesticide. Mining shit. Don't yaya papaya online.

 

[Char_Azn]

Char_Azn

You are truly fixated on the monthly drawn sum that the CPF would bring without thinking of how it is being
formulated and what system it is being derived.

Pray tell what is the formula for the monthly pay out I too would like to know. You can talk about the formula and the system all you like but tell me is $1100 too much? Is $1100 ENOUGH for the average person? As my example have shown, for the average person on the street who isn't under the PA scheme and doesn't pay subsidized rates for anything, it is. What is the formula, is it that important. At the end of the day the formula is NOTHING if the monthly payout you are getting is not even for you to even pay your utility bills. Would U be happy if you end up getting $500(today's money) a month and end up NOT being able to even pay your freaking monthly bills. But it doesn't matter U can meet the minimum sum!!!!

And how many freaking DONKEY TIMES DO I NEED TO TELL U THAT I AGREE WITH U ON THE FUCKING AGE PART. WILL YOU FUCKING STOP THROWING THAT AT ME AS IF I DISAGREE WITH U. Yes 85 years old is too high. I only pointed out the life expectancy to U coz your data was OUTDATED. I stated in every single post since the first one that I AGREED WITH U. SHEESH!!!! I only use the age of 85 to illustrate my point of how I want the starting withdawal age to be flexible because it is the age right now. I already stated before that I AGREED WITH U!!!!

And finally for the minimum sum age target, the minimum sum FROM YOUR OWN LINKS points out that can be covered by pledging 50% of it with your HDB flats. Please point out to me which flats do U actually have to live in to NOT be able to pledge 65K with your HDB flat assuming U buy one. ANY 3 rm flat would have a value far higher then $130K assuming there is a need to use the HDB flat to cover the minimum sum.

He is not very bright and argumentative. Historical fact has indicated that the MS has been adjusted at 6.36% annually and he is counting 2% adjustment. There was some mention of 3-4% inflation by someone but if you sit down and do simple math compounding, you will know that Market analyst put Singapore inflation at 4 to 6%. Since MS takes into consideration of so called "inflation adjustment", how come now raises the question of inflation adjustment for you retirement monthly payout?

Yes o mighty expert, I'm an idiot. Please point me to the expert analyst who stated that SG inflation was 6%. And BTW I used a 2% increment rate on wages NOT inflation. As a worst case scenario of whether someone who gets low increment can make the minimum sum. It has NOTHING to do with inflation.

CharAzn is simply not honest in his analysis. That's all. He talks about HDB asset enhancement where you can sell your house and live with your kids... What the fuck? Even if property prices are 50% of current levels, you also can sell your house and live with your kids. What kind of fucked up logic is that? Asset enhancement is simply another word for decimating the purchasing power of the population. Totally dishonest.

Fucked piece of shit. What working for mining company? Imerys process diatomaceous earth... Fossilised Plankton. It's used as pesticide. Mining shit. Don't yaya papaya online.

U fucking moron. I said selling the house to live with the kids WAS AN OPTION IF THE GUY WAS DESPERATE. I DIDN'T encourage everyone to sell their house and live with their kids!!!!

 

[Char_Azn]

He is not very bright and argumentative. Historical fact has indicated that the MS has been adjusted at 6.36% annually and he is counting 2% adjustment. There was some mention of 3-4% inflation by someone but if you sit down and do simple math compounding, you will know that Market analyst put Singapore inflation at 4 to 6%. Since MS takes into consideration of so called "inflation adjustment", how come now raises the question of inflation adjustment for you retirement monthly payout?

BTW

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/economy/hist/cpi.html