CPF minimum sum to be revised upwards to S$131,000

[Char_Azn]

The guy cannot count. You factor in the MA, OA and house, you get negative.
Sure, I can do a more thorough one, but it will not change the negative outcome and it is very very negative.

U then cannot count.

Formula for OA is 23% of wages until U reach 35, then 21 until 45 and 19 till 50, 13 till 55

Formula for SA is 6, 7 8 respectively. All information available from CPF website. My formula is simple. Example, for SA I took annual wage * 6% to get SA then * 4% annual interest from 25 till the age of 34

I also already factor in housing, see explanation above. Instead of talking cock I'll like to see how U count

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Gen-Info/Con-Rates/ContriRa.htm

 

[karmabear]

Yawnz... Take a look around your office and tell me how many above 45 are working? You are doing a straight line appreciation. Did you factor in retrenchment? Did you factor in salary adjustments downwards? Is the uncle at the petrol kiosk earning $40K a year? Have you seen guys in their 30s drive taxi? What about time spent in between jobs? Again, another "modeller" that does analysis with his ass.

 

[Silencer]

Char_Azn

Read my post again, I factor in housing already. I took the estimates from HDB website. For a 4 rm house in Yishun monthly payment over 30 years was 900, I put it at 1000 split into 2(500 * 12 months) so the ordinary account for the 1st 30 years the amt -$6000. That's why the ordinary account amt is so pathetic.

Note if at age 25 you immediately deduct $1,000 per month as housing loan then
you are presuming even before the lad start work he has THE 15% in his CPF to pay off the booking deposit.

Then again you will argue they would receive the AHG but what happen to those
who is not eligible or get lesser due to PR spouse etc.

Frankly some in the lower strata could not find the $2,000 cash for the initial booking let alone the 5% cash to meet and make the 20% deposit.

Your assumption of $2,500 is coming from a diploma or tertiary education graduate - what happen to those less educated of the population ?

Those in clerical, junior technician and even low management staff are paid less than $1,500 when they start.

 

[Char_Azn]

Yawnz... Take a look around your office and tell me how many above 45 are working? You are doing a straight line appreciation. Did you factor in retrenchment? Did you factor in salary adjustments downwards? Is the uncle at the petrol kiosk earning $40K a year? Have you seen guys in their 30s drive taxi? What about time spent in between jobs? Again, another "modeller" that does analysis with his ass.

1)My office have about 30 staff, MORE THEN HALF are >40 yrs old

2)Read my post again I've said this many times already. I never factor in bonus that means 30 years WITHOUT ANY BONUS. Assuming only AWS which means 30 months pay = 2.5 yrs of NOT WORKING. If we add another month bonus on top of that(2 months bonus is VERY COMMON), thats 5 YRS OF NOT WORKING!!!!! U seriously think pple will have more then 2.5 - 5 yrs of 0 income????!!!!

3)Look at my final pay, adjusted till at age of 60, the scenario is the guy(whom in this case is a uni grad which is why start work at 25) is only earning about $3500. $3500 for a uni grad today is very easy to get let alone adjusted for inflation in 30 yrs time!!!! If you average it out he is only earning about $3000 a year. For a Uni grad, earning $3000 across his life time even if he gets stuck driving taxi for the last 10-15 yrs of his life earning 2K+ a month is still VERY EASY TO GET. And yes I've talked with enough Taxi drivers to know they usually earn >$2K!!!!

Those factors were already taken into consideration which is why the increment a year was at a ridiculous rate of only 1% as well as 0 bonus for 30 years factored into my calculations. I have stated this in my post already

 

[karmabear]

You got aunties and uncles right? Above 50, see how many of them are working... bear in mind, they were at a period where employment was secure. Your office more than 50% above 40... makes it hard for me to believe. Particularly in IT. All management hah?

Taxi drivers get CPF meh? That $2k is gross earnings hor... accident, sick, holidays = no income. You are also assuming worst case scenario is taxi driver. If so easy, why got tissue sellers, toilet cleaners, mcdonalds worker etc...

May I assume you are under 30? You will see different milestones at 35, 40, 45. I do not know anyone working in finance at 50 years old, unless at very senior levels. The IT service guys I speak to are 40 at most... usually in their 20s. I understand the problem is the same with the engineering profession.

 

[Char_Azn]

Char_Azn



Note if at age 25 you immediately deduct $1,000 per month as housing loan then
you are presuming even before the lad start work he has THE 15% in his CPF to pay off the booking deposit.

Then again you will argue they would receive the AHG but what happen to those
who is not eligible or get lesser due to PR spouse etc.

Frankly some in the lower strata could not find the $2,000 cash for the initial booking let alone the 5% cash to meet and make the 20% deposit.

Your assumption of $2,500 is coming from a diploma or tertiary education graduate - what happen to those less educated of the population ?

Those in clerical, junior technician and even low management staff are paid less than $1,500 when they start.

First to address the housing issue and deposit. The entire cost of the house is calculated over 30 yrs without factoring the deposit. If I factor in the deposit, the loan will be less and the interest cheaper

And like I said, it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to address every single scenario out there. It's easy enough for me to adjust my figures for your scenario. The reason why I used my scenario to begin with is simply coz the majority of the population are inside that category and as I stated the minimum sum even if increased by another 40-50% over the next 20-30 years is still easily reachable. As for the lower end of the scale for the lesser educated, I have adjusted my calculations

Obviously since they are on the lower end of the skill they will find it harder to reach that amount. I started this from age 21 since lower education, I assume start work early. I will use 1500 starting pay. I will not go lower then this since things Workfare or other schemes will kick in and I have no idea how to calculate that

Also note, none of the CPF top up schemes were factored in, if we factor in those, your CPF amount will also be a lot higher

My model is very close to a WORST CASE SCENARIO. Unless the bugger is jobless for upwards of more then 5yrs, he probably won't end up as bad as my model

BTW the model use a 3 rm flat instead of 4 rm

 

[Bigfuck]

Char_Azn



Note if at age 25 you immediately deduct $1,000 per month as housing loan then
you are presuming even before the lad start work he has THE 15% in his CPF to pay off the booking deposit.

Then again you will argue they would receive the AHG but what happen to those
who is not eligible or get lesser due to PR spouse etc.

Frankly some in the lower strata could not find the $2,000 cash for the initial booking let alone the 5% cash to meet and make the 20% deposit.

Your assumption of $2,500 is coming from a diploma or tertiary education graduate - what happen to those less educated of the population ?

Those in clerical, junior technician and even low management staff are paid less than $1,500 when they start.

You are not wrong.

I looked at the sheet again and laughed. We know that the Minimum sums for retirement and medical have been going up by 3-4%. This time it is the largest jump to date.
If we factor in 4% without compounding it is already bad enough, because in 25 years your minimum sums will be twice what it is and it is looking that way. But it would foolish to expect the median wages of 2.4K to grow to 4.8K by that. There are tonnes of unemployed in the world who still grovel for 1.2K 30 years from now.
Since we are talking about median earners, the ones that may hit the Minimum sums, would be those in the 60-70% range, if lucky. Remember we have a gini of 0.5, before nonsensical govt. subsidies which you typically do not count as it is not money in hand. You purposely raise something arbitrarily and claim to subsidize you 5000K and count that as money you gained. Money in hand counts. So what you will need to have in order to withdraw anything from the CPF is likely to be 400K-500K - this is conservative. BTW, with the shit lifestyle in Singapore, you are likely to use up quite a bit of medisave before 60 for all kinds of shit things. We have not factored in if you have a kid and pay from the CPF. The interesting question that nobody has been asking now is what does the monthly payout at 65 or 67 buy you when you retire? I mean, one bowl of noodles at a typical outlet is already 3-4 dollars as the common price. It was normal to get noodles at less than 1 SGD 35 years ago. You tell me. Let us be realistic

 

[Char_Azn]

You got aunties and uncles right? Above 50, see how many of them are working... bear in mind, they were at a period where employment was secure. Your office more than 50% above 40... makes it hard for me to believe. Particularly in IT. All management hah?

Taxi drivers get CPF meh? That $2k is gross earnings hor... accident, sick, holidays = no income. You are also assuming worst case scenario is taxi driver. If so easy, why got tissue sellers, toilet cleaners, mcdonalds worker etc...

May I assume you are under 30? You will see different milestones at 35, 40, 45. I do not know anyone working in finance at 50 years old, unless at very senior levels. The IT service guys I speak to are 40 at most... usually in their 20s. I understand the problem is the same with the engineering profession.

I work in a MINING company!!!!!

Taxi drivers dun get CPF, but they can contribute. Their earning power is within my model. Like I said, unless they totally have no income for 5 yrs, if you are earning an average of 3K for your entire life time which for a uni grad is a very realistic scenario, my model will work. My model is more a worst case scenario.

I cannot speak for other industries. I used to work for IT Vendors and I have met more then enough guys in the IT industry who are >40 and still in IT and not in management. The picture U are painting seem to suggest that just about every bugger above the age of 40 who isn't a manager is now a cab driver. Please lah, I've seem more then enough old guys around in most companies I've been to. Yes there is a problem for pple above 40 to get a job. It is however not that pathetic that every freaking person above 40 is jobless

 

[Char_Azn]

You are not wrong.

I looked at the sheet again and laughed. We know that the Minimum sums for retirement and medical have been going up by 3-4%. This time it is the largest jump to date.

My post is of the worst case scenario. How many pple do you know of who gets 1% increment and 0 bonus for 30 years and even so it can cover 50% increase in minimum sum. If we factor more realistic bonuses and increments, it should easily cover over 100% increase in minimum sum. Frankly I expect the minimum sum to be around the region of 250K by the time I retire 30 years from now

BTW , this is from the original article, should answer part of your question

Members who can set aside the MS fully in cash can apply to commence their monthly payouts of S$1,170 when they reach their draw down age.

The reason why the minimum sum needs to go up is to keep up with inflation

The reason why I am so passionate about calculating this is coz it affects me and I want to know if I can get the minimum sum which for all intends and purpose the vast majority of us will get there by 55 with little to no problem

 

[karmabear]

You are a graduate working in a mining company. Most likely you will reach the minimum sum but what about others? Median income is $2.5K versus your model average of $3K. 21% of the labor force or 400,000 people makes $1,200/month or less. Do they not count?

Source: http://www.mom.gov.sg/Publications/mrsd_singapore_workforce_2010.pdf

 

[Char_Azn]

You are a graduate working in a mining company. Most likely you will reach the minimum sum but what about others? Median income is $2.5K versus your model average of $3K. 21% of the labor force or 400,000 people makes $1,200/month or less. Do they not count?

Source: http://www.mom.gov.sg/Publications/mrsd_singapore_workforce_2010.pdf

already did 1, scroll up on this page. I did 1 better and went all the way down to 1.5K and even then almost got to the minimum sum. If U note that thats a worse case scenario, then reaching the minimum sum should be no problem

 

[dankos]

Fatass u very free huh. Very soon your md will get a email about u skiving during office hrs. Hahaha. Fuck u charlatan dog.

 

[Silencer]

Char_Azn

The reason why I used my scenario to begin with is simply coz the majority of the population are inside that category and as I stated the minimum sum even if increased by another 40-50% over the next 20-30 years is still easily reachable.

Firstly if you take the starting age at 25 to reach 55 years old for the lock-in conversion of both the Ordinary & Special accounts to the Retirement account will only be 30 years. Afterwhich, all of it less for Medisave shortfall will be categorized as the Retirement account though following which the contributions seems to separate accordingly again back to Ordinary, Special & Medisave if one meets the minimum sum.

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Employers/Gen-Info/cpf-Contri/ContriRa.htm

and

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/News/News-Release/N_31May2010.htm

Now its 2011 and that sum is $131K comes future + inflation, most likely will see the figure to be more than $150K !

If salary increment does not exceed or even level with the inflation rate we are seeing that minimum sum ever increasing with a base salary panting to never catch up for the medium to low wage workers.

NWC wage announcement and implementation are only being observed by the civil service and MNCs.
All this we are talking about salaried workers. Those on commission base, piece and daily rated etc will be hard pressed to see anything if their CPF has more than $5K, if $5K or less they can take out wholly at age 55.

Interestingly, come September 2011 if you see the contribution tables for;

1) Pensionable Employees (Statutory Bodies) {pensionable component only}
2) Pensionable Employees (Ministries) {pensionable component only}

their "For Pensionable Employees (Ministries & Statutory Bodies), the Ordinary Wage Ceiling is $6,666.67."

against ours of "For Private Sector Employees and Non-Pensionable Employees (Statutory Bodies & Aided Schools), the Ordinary Wage Ceiling is $5,000."

Furthermore, their contribution rate to their Special account is significant lesser while the bulk goes to their Ordinary account - why wonder why so ?

Will leave it here for now.

 

[Bigfuck]

It is okay if you do have a 40 year employment span and if the S$8,000 this year was a one time affair going back to S$4K. It is also okay if Medical stays at S$2,500 per year increase. If not, you are in trouble. Also, bad for housewives but that is a very old problem.

BTW, if you look at AR2010 of CPF and regrossed balances as actual track record, 137,364 out of 174,193 members aged >50-55 had more S$90,000, an impressive 78.85%. Out of 137,364, 22,080 had less than S$150K. How much do you think Investment, Education, Residential Properties, Non-Residential Properties and Public Housing
Schemes make up the regrossed sum? This balance includes pretty much medical and special account sums, unless I missed some fine print. In addition, for the >50-55 group, the average regrossed balance is S$80,310. So, do you see this is going fine?

"The increase in MS, which includes an adjustment for inflation, is to ensure that Singaporeans set aside sufficient savings for their retirement."
In line with this policy, from 1 July 2011, the prevailing MS will be revised to S$131,000, up from S$123,000." Since 2003, the minimum sum has be adjusted annually for inflation with the additional amounts as follows: (2004)S$4,500;(2005)S$5,500; (2006)S$4,600; (2007)S$5,000; (2008)S$6,400; (2009)S$11,000; (2010)S$6,000; (2011)S$8,000. At 4% inflation, 2003 minimum sum of S$80K as a nominal sum should only be S$109,486 in 2011 but it is now S$131,000. In actual fact, the averaged out inflation rate is 6.36%., based on the minimum sum adjustment from the period 2004-2011. Uhm, I thought inflation was averaged 2.19% from 2004-2010 (2011 not out), courtesy of Singstats. So, have we been cheated twice in the inflation adjustment exercise for CPF? Hello! So, if we continue to have inflation of 6.36% like the last few good years as PAP claims, let me crystal ball gaze on the more good years and show what the minimum sum increase for retirement (not including medical) will look like from next year till Mahathir's favorite 2020 - (2012)S$8,332; (2013)S$8,862; (2014)S$9,426; (2015)S$10,025; (2016)S$10,663; (2017)S$11,341; (2018)S$12,062; (2019)S$12,829; (2020)S$13,645. That gives you a minimum sum of S$228,203 by 2020, in a mere 9 years. In 2023, you could enjoy a more then double of your S$131,000 in 2011 for your minimum sum at S$274,572

My model is already considered optimistic by assuming fixed S$8,000 annual increase for the minimum sum. Setting it at S$4,000 annually is masturbating, based on history. If I take it that the current 6.36% annual adjustment holds (based on track record, rather than my fixed S$8,000, I do not get S$403,000 for minimum sum at the end of 35 years. I get S$1,065,944 . At the end of 35 years, my Singapore Joe's lifetime income at S$28,800 per year, would be a nominal S$1,008,000, before spending. FYI, at 4% inflation adjustment the minimum sum would be S$497,055 and with Singstats magic 2.19%, it would be S$273,625. If we do a constant S$4K increment for my 35 year model, using 131,000 MS as the start base, would give you 2.12% inflation adjustment at best.


You know, I would be most happy to be wrong and would have that when I retire the minimum sum for both retirement and medical be no more than S$300K. Somehow, I do not think so......

 

[Unrepented]

IMO, after retirement (assuming 20 to 30 years time) need about at least half a million and up, to lead a decent life in singapore.

There will be no end to the tweaks in the CPF policies, they can throw whatever factors in their actuarial caluculations for whatever intent.

Just find ways to earn income that dont kenna lock in cpf and minimize income tax exposure. I know.... easier said than done but its the guiding principle.

 

[drifter]

Fatass u very free huh. Very soon your md will get a email about u skiving during office hrs. Hahaha. Fuck u charlatan dog.[/QUOTE
hahaha..you like that said ..he dare not post liao ... hahaha...you are funny ..up you for that ...

 

[johnny333]

Has the CPF system really helped anyone except Temasek

What I see is the PAP increasing the bar higher & higher but not giving actual numbers on how many Sporeans it has actually helped?

I & many people I know have been saving/investing but it seems to me that the gov't has been responsible for all kinds of scams to rob us Just look at all the higher costs driven up by the PAP: utility rates, public transport, increase in rentals, gst, etc.

Really angry at stupid, dumb, selfish, #%^& voters for supporting the PAP

 

[Char_Azn]

Fatass u very free huh. Very soon your md will get a email about u skiving during office hrs. Hahaha. Fuck u charlatan dog.[/QUOTE
hahaha..you like that said ..he dare not post liao ... hahaha...you are funny ..up you for that ...

He threaten that 2 pages ago, I'm still posting. Go ahead and send it to the MD all the way in Paris. U think they'd care? I'm not reporting to them. Even if you send it to my HR in SG, it's useless, I don't report to the guys here either. My company structure is very, complicated, in SG alone there are 3 different Biz unit. The HR department here is not the one that I report to. So unless he struck Jackpot and manages to find out who my direct superior is, he can send out whatever joke he wants and it won't affect me

You know, I would be most happy to be wrong and would have that when I retire the minimum sum for both retirement and medical be no more than S$300K. Somehow, I do not think so......

The median household income actually went up on the average by 4% from 1990 - 2010($2300 -> $5000). The average inflation rate is closer to 2.8% during the same period

I expect the CPF to go up according to rise in wages rather then inflation. Reason being to maintain the standard of living during retirement years

I'm 32 this year when I retire at 55, I expect the minimum sum to be in the region of $250K-300K

By my calculations, on the average if about 150-200 and another 400-500 remains in your CPF(adjusted for inflation annually), you should easily meet the minimum sum by the time U retire

 

[dankos]

fatass char_azn dog,

u mentioned that CPF minimum has increased only by 6.1% in 8 years which i dun bloody bother to verify. upon further clarification by bigfuck, CPF MS is $80k in 2003. Now CPF MS is $131k.

so WTF is the 6.1% increase only u talked about? figure come out from your ass is it? fuck u! the increment from 80k to 131k is a whooping 63.75% in 8 years. bloody stupid pap dog. :oIo::oIo:

 

[dankos]

He threaten that 2 pages ago, I'm still posting. Go ahead and send it to the MD all the way in Paris. U think they'd care? I'm not reporting to them. Even if you send it to my HR in SG, it's useless, I don't report to the guys here either. My company structure is very, complicated, in SG alone there are 3 different Biz unit. The HR department here is not the one that I report to. So unless he struck Jackpot and manages to find out who my direct superior is, he can send out whatever joke he wants and it won't affect me



U retire

fat ass

dun bloody yaya. i will just mass email to whatever fuck in your company. your enemy in your company will help me by forwarding it to the person that can fuck u up. dun believe.. wait huh.. sure u have plenty of enemies in your office. u damn kway lan , fat and ugly. very easy to hate.

btw, your 1st post this morning. 9.25am. save it liao on my records.