If your forefathers migrated to SG when it was a colony...

[yuelao]

Does that mean that you, their descendent, should now also throw open the doors of your new country and allow any Tom, Dick or Harry from your forefathers' land in?

This is the logic claimed by one forummer. Just wanted to see what are the views of other forummers.

 

[Char_Azn]

I think U mean me. Better to clarify my position before the flaming starts.

The throwing door opening part to any Tom Dick or Harry, I dun fully agree. I only agree with allowing pple who can contribute to the country in if they agree to take up citizenship in the end. I have said this before, I have serious problems with pple who remain here indefinitely as a PRs.

As for those who take up citizenship, I think we should treat them as the same and not treat "new citizens" as 2nd class

 

[SIFU]

Does that mean that you, their descendent, should now also throw open the doors of your new country and allow any Tom, Dick or Harry from your forefathers' land in?

This is the logic claimed by one forummer. Just wanted to see what are the views of other forummers.

if we follow everything our forefathers do, we would still be wearing pigtail today..

 

[Char_Azn]

if we follow everything our forefathers do, we would still be wearing pigtail today..

My Grandpa not that old lah. He come over that time the Manchus already got thrown out. I think most pple in here same thing

 

[SIFU]

My Grandpa not that old lah. He come over that time the Manchus already got thrown out

TS said forefathers, not grandfather.. hence my reply.

 

[Char_Azn]

SG population was only about 200K when the Manchus kena kicked out. Chances of us having forefathers who are in SG still wearing pigtails isn't very high

 

[SIFU]

SG population was only about 200K when the Manchus kena kicked out. Chances of us having forefathers who are in SG still wearing pigtails isn't very high

wow lau ooi...

u mean my sec sch history books showing the 'zhu zai' sold to spore with pigtails is fake one??

NB didn't know that leh...

 

[Char_Azn]

That one U go take it out with the history books. Qing Dynasty official end is 1911(or 1912 depending on how U look at it)

SG Chinese population during that time only 216K
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/singapore/sg_appen.html#table2

Chances are the majority of our forefathers came after that. More likely just before Independence and after the World War. My family got here just before the World War.

 

[yuelao]

I think U mean me. Better to clarify my position before the flaming starts.

The throwing door opening part to any Tom Dick or Harry, I dun fully agree. I only agree with allowing pple who can contribute to the country in if they agree to take up citizenship in the end. I have said this before, I have serious problems with pple who remain here indefinitely as a PRs.

As for those who take up citizenship, I think we should treat them as the same and not treat "new citizens" as 2nd class

And what is your view as to how the PRs have been given out? What about all those foreigners on work permits? Are they of a high quality generally? Should we keep on using them in such high numbers?

 

[Rogue Trader]

Do you work your whole life to buy a house and then let outside people in to stay when your own children don't have space? Then ask your children to serve NS and tell them to protect these outsider?
if you say 'yes' then you are a foreigner.

 

[Char_Azn]

And what is your view as to how the PRs have been given out? What about all those foreigners on work permits? Are they of a high quality generally? Should we keep on using them in such high numbers?

Observations(skip if you are not interested): I am no economist but I think that will depend on market demand. The fact now is we have less then 10% unemployment but 30% of the workforce foreign workers, Translation, if we have 0% unemployment, we still don't have enough workers. Simple math.

My Opinions: So the question here is, is anyone willing to sacrifice the economy to get rid of some foreign workers? Baring in mind that we still need pple to deal with shitty jobs like sweeping the streets and building our houses. Seriously I'm not prepared to give up what I enjoy right now.

Answer to your question: Back to the question, should we continue to use such high numbers of of Foreigners? No.

Do we have a choice? No

Is this the government's fault? To a large extend, Yes. The model was more or less this way since day 1, the day that Sir Stamford Raffles started this country. PAP's however accelarated the problem in the past 10 years and they seriously need to fix the problem.

Some further info on the last point

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/the...hist/popn.html

Look at the number of Residents. Except for 2008, the increase have been pretty stable, about 50 - 60K a year. From Day 1 of SG history, Raffles till after Independence, our biggest population growth have come from migrants and that have not change. It's in fact been quite stable

However when we compare the difference between the ratio of total population vs Residents. The change in the last 10 years is staggering.

With regards to the topic, new migrants taking citizenship, it is how we have come into being, and despite most in here either don't know or do not want to admit it, it is what our country is built upon. Which is why I have always strongly defended new citizens.

However in regards to your question, I have stated my stand on PRs and as for Foreign workers, we need to get rid of them but the current situation is, we can't.

 

[VIBGYOR]

i have no problems if you welcome those highly skills people into the country.

i have problems if you anyhow suka suka boost up the country to 5 million within a period of 5 years.

i have problems when the country is already crowded you keep proping up the population to 6.5 millions.

i really have no problem if those highly skills people prefer to convert to PR, or SGP citizens, because it's their decisions, we cannot judge them based on their decisions, because its' their life they are dealing with, not you...

 

[kingrant]

When yr forefathers came, it was a level playing field for evrybody. The Colonial govt did not grant us any favours. Back then, the population wasnt overflowing.

But now, our own elected govt is playing favourites, and treating newcomers and foreign immigrants better than locals. The place is already overcrowded.

Citizens are out of jobs due to the financial crisis and economy downturn. Where they are prepared to work for lower pay, they have to fight with the large influx of foreigners who are even prepared to accept cut-throat wages to get the job, and bosses are of course happy because they can then make more money.

Even if they expand, they create jobs to give only to foreigners once again because they cost less, and so the spiral continues. All this, thanks to our govt who did not do their job to bring in higher paying jobs for locals and then muzzling our workers so they can't protest over the govt's pro-capitalistic policies to please them.

That's why there are problems.

 

[Char_Azn]

Deleted this post.

I combined it with my earlier post. Please refer to my earlier post

 

[VIBGYOR]

When yr forefathers came, it was a level playing field for evrybody. The Colonial govt did not grant us any favours. Back then, the population wasnt overflowing. But now, our own elected govt is playing favourites, and treating newcomers and foreign immigrants better than locals. The place is already overcrowded. That's why there are problems.

bullshit! during that time, there will also be poor & rich, there is no such thing called level playing field...during those undeveloped times, it was even worst with corruption. anybody who is rich will be treated better than the average peasants....

 

[Char_Azn]

When yr forefathers came, it was a level playing field for evrybody. The Colonial govt did not grant us any favours. Back then, the population wasnt overflowing. But now, our own elected govt is playing favourites, and treating newcomers and foreign immigrants better than locals. The place is already overcrowded. That's why there are problems.

Citizenship vs PRs
http://www.ica.gov.sg/data/resources/docs/BenefitsPrivilegesRightsObligations_20080429.pdf

 

[SIFU]

Observations(skip if you are not interested): I am no economist but I think that will depend on market demand. The fact now is we have less then 10% unemployment but 30% of the workforce foreign workers, Translation, if we have 0% unemployment, we still don't have enough workers. Simple math.

My Opinions: So the question here is, is anyone willing to sacrifice the economy to get rid of some foreign workers? Baring in mind that we still need pple to deal with shitty jobs like sweeping the streets and building our houses. Seriously I'm not prepared to give up what I enjoy right now.

Answer to your question: Back to the question, should we continue to use such high numbers of of Foreigners? No.

Do we have a choice? No

Is this the government's fault? To a large extend, Yes. The model was more or less this way since day 1, the day that Sir Stamford Raffles started this country. PAP's however accelarated the problem in the past 10 years and they seriously need to fix the problem.

Some further info on the last point

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/the...hist/popn.html

Look at the number of Residents. Except for 2008, the increase have been pretty stable, about 50 - 60K a year. From Day 1 of SG history, Raffles till after Independence, our biggest population growth have come from migrants and that have not change. It's in fact been quite stable

However when we compare the difference between the ratio of total population vs Residents. The change in the last 10 years is staggering.

With regards to the topic, new migrants taking citizenship, it is how we have come into being, and despite most in here either don't know or do not want to admit it, it is what our country is built upon. Which is why I have always strongly defended new citizens.

However in regards to your question, I have stated my stand on PRs and as for Foreign workers, we need to get rid of them but the current situation is, we can't.

seriously; is this your fulltime job?? do you get paid??

wow... i mean typing such detail replies...

short n sharp: can we keep foreign workers such as construction workers, maids, rd sweepers etc and send those fake talents in IT, service industry, geylang chicken back??

 

[Char_Azn]

seriously; is this your fulltime job?? do you get paid??

wow... i mean typing such detail replies...

short n sharp: can we keep foreign workers such as construction workers, maids, rd sweepers etc and send those fake talents in IT, service industry, geylang chicken back??

Actually all my projects are on hold at the moment, budget period. Waiting for Finance pple to crunch numbers and pay money so that I can buy new toys. So this few weeks until Feb(more likely March since Feb CNY). I sibei eng. Why did U think I was so happy when someone was there to keep me occupied. If not once I start traveling I'll be away for weeks

I'll actually be happy to see fake talents in IT go since they are the buggers who keep my salary low. But as far as I can see, IT probably cannot give up the bulk of the FTs yet. Almost every other guy I worked with is FT. Too many to replace. U think only Indians and Ah Tiongs are here to do IT? U'll be surprise at the number of Burmese, Indon and Filipino IT guys in SG. I can't speak too much for the other industry since I'm no expert

As for "Geylang Chickens" I don't have a problem with them as long as they remain in Geylang and not freaking get biz on buses and go door to door. I'm sure many pple dun want to see them go :p

 

[kingrant]

bullshit! during that time, there will also be poor & rich, there is no such thing called level playing field...during those undeveloped times, it was even worst with corruption. anybody who is rich will be treated better than the average peasants....

level playing field did not mean everybody rich or poor. Equality of wealth is irrelevant. There was no central control orchestrating the flow.

From each his effort; to each his worth. Do you feel you are worthy of yr predicament now after the govt has fixed you?

 

[Frankiestine]

Guess my perspective of it is our forefathers came here to nothing. This country was bare and they contribute to bake this cake up to what it is today. We on the other sacrifice our time and occasionally our blood to defend this piece of cake that they had baked. The main difference why these foreigners are so resented is, they did not have to do nuts and just walk in and demand a piece of the cake.