Singapore buys tanks Merkava Mk 4

[winnipegjets]

Merkava runs at 6o km while Leopard at 71 km.......... what a joke to replace with something slower

More money to be earned by some people lah.

 

[Papsmearer]

I thought Sillypore has got ST Kinetics to design and build it's own tank?
ST Kinetics is so proud to claim that it has a partnership with a particular tank manufacturer that
they are capable of designing and building their customized tanks.

They even show case it in a documentary film about Sillypore's defense.

That idea has been deep sixed for now. They fucked up the design for the Bionix which was what the new tank was supposed to be derived from. Apparently, its too small and narrow to take a 120mm turret for the main gun. They were supposed to design the light tank to replace the AMX-13 based on the Bionix chassis. However, light tanks are now going the way of the dinosaurs in modern armies. ST always has an eye on the export market, and I don't see any market for a 25-30 ton light tank in today's overseas market.

 

[Papsmearer]

Can this rhino outgun M1 MBT?
It appears to hv only passive armour whereas M1 has both passive and reactive armours and driven by jet engines

Its a draw. Both use the 120mm smoothbore cannon, and M1 is a derivative and the IDF's version is license made. However, when u say tank vs tank, the Merk is unproven whereas the M1 has taken rounds from a T-72 and survived. The M1 is generally recognized as the best MBT in the world. With a very balanced combinaton of firepower, armour protection, speed and agility. The Merk is very strong in armour protection and not so good in mobility.

 

[virus]

Merkava runs at 6o km while Leopard at 71 km.......... what a joke to replace with something slower

it should hv a longer hit range n more impact on the arty side. so that compensate for the diff. if speed is concern, then A-10 would be a better option.

 

[Papsmearer]

Tactually in this modern day era of drones n hellfire missiles etc. A tank is basically obsolete. The yanks do not manufacture new m1a2s anymore. They just recondition n upgrade their existing armour fleet n there r minimal new developments in the pipeline. Like a bro here tat say new anti tank weapons go for the top..and a drone fully loaded with anti tank weapons will make mincemeat of tanks...

And spore buy all these mbts..to fight who ah? Mudland n indonland got huge tank divisions.? N I very surprise how come our neighbours never kpkb abt us escalating the arms race? Or they r happy to see singkieland bankrupt itself by over spending on useless big ticket toys?

When you get $12 billion a year from the PAP to spend on defence, you spend every penny. Or else, they will cut u back the next year. So, even if u don't need it, u buy it anyway just to say u used up all the budget and need an increase for next year.

The neighbours are happy to see us spend $12 billion on non productive useless toys that benefit the economies and defence industries of Israel, US, France, etc. They would rather not see us pump that $12 billion into our economy to make it more competitive because it will hurt their economy.

 

[Papsmearer]

different tank... leopard more like light armor. this is heavy armor.

62.5 ton Leopard is a light tank? hahahahha. Ok, whatever u say, u are the tank expert. LOL

 

[sleaguepunter]

While the $500m for 50 merkava4 included parts and spares but it still cost almost $10m per piece, there cheaper alternatives, such as the upgraded Leo2a6 which has the L55 gun which is much better than the L44 for the current leo2 in saf inventory.

Dunno taxpayer got Kenna 菜頭 again or not as price of merkava seems to be ard US$6m only. At 50, it only $300m. No bulk purchase discount? The parts, spares and ammo cost $200m? knn, the spare parts cost almost the same as the tanks?

50 heavies, enough for an independent brigade? I like the merkava as it give the crew and troopers at the back a good chance of surviving a firefight. But that does not mean I like being 菜頭.

I still think saf make a mistake in the bionix by not having a atgm system, especially mat has the pt91. At least give the bionix crew a fighting chance against the pt91.

 

[Papsmearer]

While the $500m for 50 merkava4 included parts and spares but it still cost almost $10m per piece, there cheaper alternatives, such as the upgraded Leo2a6 which has the L55 gun which is much better than the L44 for the current leo2 in saf inventory.

Dunno taxpayer got Kenna 菜頭 again or not as price of merkava seems to be ard US$6m only. At 50, it only $300m. No bulk purchase discount? The parts, spares and ammo cost $200m? knn, the spare parts cost almost the same as the tanks?

50 heavies, enough for an independent brigade? I like the merkava as it give the crew and troopers at the back a good chance of surviving a firefight. But that does not mean I like being 菜頭.

I still think saf make a mistake in the bionix by not having a atgm system, especially mat has the pt91. At least give the bionix crew a fighting chance against the pt91.

Firstly, I would wait till there is more independent confirmation that the purchase took place. SO far, its just one source and not a very accurate source that says we bought it. I think a sale was made, but not to us, probably to a South American country.

If we actually did buy the Merk, than it would be the biggest waste of taxpayers money. The Israelis need to keep the Merkava production line going, 212 Israeli companies and 10,000 Israeli jobs depend on it. By spending $500 million on 50 Merks, we would be helping the Israeli economy and saving jewish jobs at the expense our singaporean taxpayer money. In other words, we would be doing a big fat favour to them. And you are right. At $10 million a piece, they are overpriced. The M1 abrams is just under $5 million, and a Challenger 2 tank is under $6 million. And both these tanks are combat tested against other tanks, whereas the Merk 4 is not.

Regarding ATGW for the Bionix, there was never a serious consideration to put that in. For several reasons. Its a cumberson system to use, u fire maybe 4 shots, and than have to withdraw to reload. And by the time you deploy it, a well trained tank crew would put 2 rounds into u. Also, for ATGW, their best use is in open areas like in a desert. There is too much vegetation and urban environment that may entangle the wires of the missile. And for an ATGW to defeat the PT-91, u would need the newest generation of tanden warhead against the ERAWA ERA that they PT-91 has, as well as a totally new turret design. And the production run would be too low to justify that.

 

[johnny333]

why pay new money to buy second hand MBT only to replace them seven years later???????
life span of MBT is a lot longer than that ......... what number did the planners assumed?

PAP is now a bloated & inefficient company. The new boss is obviously incapable of continuing his father's legacy. The norm now is to have projects poorly thought through. Lets take a look at some failures:

They overspent on YOG by 400%

The National Library was renovated & then less a year later they decided to demolished it because they decided to replace it with a road.

How about the ill fated Budget Terminal? They built some kind of wharehouse that was isolated from the other Terminals. In the end no one wanted to use the BT & now it has been demolished & replaced with Terminal 4 which is integrated with the other terminals

They opened the flood gates to millions of foreigners & no one in the PAP even considered whether the infrastructure could handle the strain. We now see the problems i.e. lack of hospital beds, congested roads & public transport, long queues at the polyclinics,.....

....

Anyone still want to continue voting for the PAP

 

[aerobwala]

Any field report that this tank can run through palm oil tree plantation without supply problem?

 

[johnny333]

62.5 ton Leopard is a light tank? hahahahha. Ok, whatever u say, u are the tank expert. LOL

Even the AMX 13 tank is pretty heavy. I remember how it would damage the roads after the National Day Parades.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Even the AMX 13 tank is pretty heavy. I remember how it would damage the roads after the National Day Parades.

if I remember correctly, the SM1 aka amx13 is ard 14tons. Even the current IFV Bionix is 22tons. It damage road because it tracks don't have the rubber pads, so cannot drive beyond 15-20km/hr as road may get damage. But inside gedong where SM1 are based, the roads inside the camp never resurface during my whole NS liability (2.5NSF+10yrs ICTs).

 

[sleaguepunter]

Regarding ATGW for the Bionix, there was never a serious consideration to put that in. For several reasons. Its a cumberson system to use, u fire maybe 4 shots, and than have to withdraw to reload. And by the time you deploy it, a well trained tank crew would put 2 rounds into u. Also, for ATGW, their best use is in open areas like in a desert. There is too much vegetation and urban environment that may entangle the wires of the missile. And for an ATGW to defeat the PT-91, u would need the newest generation of tanden warhead against the ERAWA ERA that they PT-91 has, as well as a totally new turret design. And the production run would be too low to justify that.

but having a bionix platoon commanding a high point overlooking an axis yet cannot stop a tank supported infantry attack as the 25/35mm cannot penetrate the tank armour, then what the point? having a missile system at least give the platoon commander another choice. Also useful in delay missions, shoot and scoot to slow down opposition armour spearhead. 4 missiles per BX, that at least 8 missiles per BX platoon since PS vehicle is 40/50 config. if can mount the lgla on an old M113, then having a anti tank missile launcher mount beside or on the turret shd be piece of cake to the arseholes inside dsto.

how can production run be too low since there at least 600-800 BXs in saf inventory plus at least another hundred more under the sultan? let the sultan pay part of it lah.

 

[kukubird58]

I would wait to here for more confirmation from other sources of this Merk purchase by the SAF. As far as I can determine, only one source has indicated this sale. the country might be Columbia and not singapore that the Merks were sold to. Once there is confirmation, I will start a thread on it. Anyway, this is news to my old kakis in Armour formation. They can't confirm it themselves.

hahaha...it is amazing that after posting so much rubbish, bullshits and vulgarities, u still think u are a credible forumer....
u asked we all to believe u about lky having mistress and illegitimate son, claiming to have reliable source......we would like to believe u....
but u disappointed us and only continue to spout more rubbish......
u really have very thick skin....

 

[Papsmearer]

hahaha...it is amazing that after posting so much rubbish, bullshits and vulgarities, u still think u are a credible forumer....
u asked we all to believe u about lky having mistress and illegitimate son, claiming to have reliable source......we would like to believe u....
but u disappointed us and only continue to spout more rubbish......
u really have very thick skin....

Ok, kuku, we have heard your same old boring shit. U can go back to the bedroom and resume fucking your mother's backside. She is waiting, ok?

 

[Papsmearer]

if I remember correctly, the SM1 aka amx13 is ard 14tons. Even the current IFV Bionix is 22tons. It damage road because it tracks don't have the rubber pads, so cannot drive beyond 15-20km/hr as road may get damage. But inside gedong where SM1 are based, the roads inside the camp never resurface during my whole NS liability (2.5NSF+10yrs ICTs).

SM1 is closer to 18 tons empty, maybe 19 tons fully loaded. All AMX-13 on NDP will have rubber padded tracks.

 

[Papsmearer]

but having a bionix platoon commanding a high point overlooking an axis yet cannot stop a tank supported infantry attack as the 25/35mm cannot penetrate the tank armour, then what the point? having a missile system at least give the platoon commander another choice. Also useful in delay missions, shoot and scoot to slow down opposition armour spearhead. 4 missiles per BX, that at least 8 missiles per BX platoon since PS vehicle is 40/50 config. if can mount the lgla on an old M113, then having a anti tank missile launcher mount beside or on the turret shd be piece of cake to the arseholes inside dsto.

how can production run be too low since there at least 600-800 BXs in saf inventory plus at least another hundred more under the sultan? let the sultan pay part of it lah.

The problem is that the Bionix is not the M2 or M3 Bradley. U can still put 6 or 7 troopers in an M2 along with the extra load for the TOW missiles. If you modified the Bionix to do that, u will be carrying 3 or 4 troopers. Hardly worth it and not tactically sound.

 

[sleaguepunter]

SM1 is closer to 18 tons empty, maybe 19 tons fully loaded. All AMX-13 on NDP will have rubber padded tracks.

i no tankee, you shd be right.

The problem is that the Bionix is not the M2 or M3 Bradley. U can still put 6 or 7 troopers in an M2 along with the extra load for the TOW missiles. If you modified the Bionix to do that, u will be carrying 3 or 4 troopers. Hardly worth it and not tactically sound.

carry 3 or 4 troopers? that the current strength of AI sections in the first place, so no lost in the reduction of space.

why spend over S$2m on the bionix when can get the technological advance Bradley in the first place. The fire control of the BX is crap, stab mode is a joke and most of the time the turret hydraulic don't work plus too many sharp edges inside the turret that can smash the gun crew head when BX travel over 30kph. who the fark designed the damned thing? other than the 25mm brushmaster plus a bit faster (in theory), the old upgraded M113 is at least as good if not better in other function. the m113 even has more ride comfort.

 

[Papsmearer]

i no tankee, you shd be right.



carry 3 or 4 troopers? that the current strength of AI sections in the first place, so no lost in the reduction of space.

why spend over S$2m on the bionix when can get the technological advance Bradley in the first place. The fire control of the BX is crap, stab mode is a joke and most of the time the turret hydraulic don't work plus too many sharp edges inside the turret that can smash the gun crew head when BX travel over 30kph. who the fark designed the damned thing? other than the 25mm brushmaster plus a bit faster (in theory), the old upgraded M113 is at least as good if not better in other function. the m113 even has more ride comfort.

The Bionix was designed with the export market in mind too. but only 3rd world dictators under arms embargo would consider buying it, but due to its US engine and transmission, as well as US gun, the reality is that they would not be allowed to sell it to just anyone. manpower shortage is not unique to the AI. Even Trailblazer with a crew of 2 is also facing a manpower shortage. Used to be u needed 20/20 vision to be a tankee, but now u see the 48 SAR (leopard 2) crew are mostly speckies. basically they used the bionix chassis for a range of other vehicles.

 

[steffychun]

ST was damn proud the British Army (former colonial masters) bought the Bronco for use in Afghanistan. Basically, ST supplied weapons to fight Taliban and still could not win.