Ptader, LTK, WP & Racism

[lockeliberal]

Dear PT,

The question as always, the basic philosophical fight in Singapore within the Opposition is as JBJ put it " Do you want to Reform or Do you want to tinker with the System , " LTK was and is always a tinkerer, JBJ was a reformer, branch root, in total opposition to the PAP , where opposition meant opposing everything and anything. JBJ was despite his parliamentary fevour an MP of the people, his offices in Anson , the block , his actions on the ground still well remembered by those old timers within the constituency. Ground Work and its importance was a lesson learnt from JBJ by LTK. How many of these people remember him for his parliamentary voice ? Those that supported him in Anson remember him for his presence on the ground. I have always wondered how well JB could have functioned as a TC manager, but its a question we will never know.

Between the Confucian educated "ethos" and a "liberal western" educated ethos is the balance within the extremes. With respect JBJ damm well nearly killed the Workers Party with his lack of control, discipline and of not having a management system in place. The lawsuit that saw the party destroyed ? How did he allow that article to pass in the first place ? How about those in the CEC who were liable for the damages ? Those who sweated to pay it back over the years ? People of not very comfortable means. You said you were a Cadre loyal to JBJ, how about those people liable for the mistakes under his leadership ? I admire JBJ for his conviction but I despair at his lack of strategy and leadership, much like I admire Chiam but despair at him not setting in place a transition for him to retire.

You speak of fiery glorious battles with the PAP, How about the human costs of that battle ? The issue of unfairness being moot, the issue of lawsuits being unfair being moot, I respect and admire LTK because of his promise to those he led into the battle against a giant , that he would ensure that they would not have to lose their shirts in battle against the PAP. Do u know that before 2006 and or 2011, he had to reassure parents of members and candidates to be that "their" sons and daughters would not lose careers, or get sued into the ground for joining opposition politics.

The WP absorption of Lee Siew Chiow and the BS carried into its blood, the culture of flag waving opposition, the history and memories of martyrs who went to jail fighting against the PAP, It found common ground with JB but it was not enough to build a party that could win against the odds. For what its worth LTK did and history will remember him for that. Aljunied GRC was part Eunos GRC but who remembers that Eunos GRC grew from three to four and in that period it was unwinnable under JBJ. It became five with G Yeo helming it and LTK took it down. For those who do electoral maths, increasing GRC sizes favor the PAP.


The SDP exists now as the party for martyrs and those who believe going to jail enhances ones election credibility. Lets just see the results in the PE BE.

Locke

You are spot on about the Natah and Chinese-educated issues. That was Low's main motivation in joining politics. He was confident (or stupid) enough to reveal this ten years after joining the WP. He disclosed it to the 147th Prostitute Press in August 1991 ( Ref: "Sorry, you are not welcome, WP's Low tells the press", 147th Prostitute Press, 29 August 1991) where he revealed he was "angry over the closure of Nantah". Needless to say, it was also a revelation to JBJ and the party members.

Sensing perhaps that he had made a blunder in unwisely revealing his anger over the Nantah issue when the article appeared in the 147th Prostitute Press, Low, in a rally in Hougang on that same Thursday night of 29 August 1991, sought (perhaps) to make amends. In that rally, Low praised Lee Kuan Yew as a "righteous man".

Needless to say, he drew the ire of the WP cadreship (including yours truly) by telling the crowd in Mandarin that , "there is no doubt there are righteous men like Lee Kuan Yew who look after the national welfare".

JBJ was livid when we told him about this. Here we were, fighting the despotic LKY and the PAP, and here was one of our "own", or so we thought then, praising Lee Kuan Yew as being "righteous". It was either the ultimate act of bootlicking or an incredible act of stupidity in praising your political opponents. Or, a very cunning and shrewed move to dogwhistle to LKY that a deal of sorts could be worked out if Low could be allowed to left unmolested - the usual fate befalling oppositionists - ascend and take over the WP.

As expected, Low's "righteous-men-like-Lee Kuan Yew" dogwhistling was widely reported in the 147th Prostitute Press the next day. Lee Kuan Yew was no doubt pleased with Low and revealed this 12 years later and 2 years after Low succeeded in his whispering campaign to destabilise JBJ's leadership, booting out JBJ and taking over as SG of the WP in May 2001.

In an interview with the147th Prostitute Press in September 2003, LKY declared that he found Low Thia Khiang "agreeable": "I find Chiam See Tong, Low Thia Khiang and Steve Chia friendly and agreeable. There are several others, people who made malicious allegations that I was dishonest and corrupt, when they must have known there was no basis for them. I sued them. I did not regard them as serious political opponents." ( Ref: "This is who I am", 147th Prostitute Press, 14 September 2003").

The cadreship who had started being wary of Low after the 1991 Natah disclosure and "righteous-men-like-Lee Kuan Yew" revelation, have, with Low's successful backstabbing of JBJ and the passing of time, been proven right about who Low Thia Khiang really is, what he stood for and what he continues to stand for.

 

[billisnotathome]

Superb post, Locke. Thanks.

 

[PTADER]

For what its worth LTK did and history will remember him for that. Aljunied GRC was part Eunos GRC but who remembers that Eunos GRC grew from three to four and in that period it was unwinnable under JBJ. It became five with G Yeo helming it and LTK took it down. For those who do electoral maths, increasing GRC sizes favor the PAP.

Let's not kid and fool ourselves about LTK's political prowess or exaggerate them to be what they are not. His shameless obsequiousness and deference to and his incredible political bootlicking of LKY since 1991 got him to where he was and to where he is today.

Under Suharto's new order, only two other political parties (PPP & DPI) were allowed to exist besides Golkar. As I said several years ago, LKY accepted that a political release valve of sorts was required even as he was determined that he and his party would monopolise Singapore politics. He emulated Suharto by, in effect, deciding, which political parties would be allowed to survive. LKY went one step beyond what Suharto did. He decided which party could be allowed to survive based on the individual who headed it. In common parlance, he decided which party would be the "PAP Approved Party".

SDP, under CST, was a PAP Approved Party. SDP, under CSJ, became a PAP Unapproved Party.

WP, under JBJ was not a PAP Approved Party. WP under Low, became a "PAP Approved Party.

That is the reason why Chauvinist Low and Princess Sukarnoputri are beholden to LKY and the PAP. LKY (and the PAP) has Low's balls in the firm grasps of his withered hands and in the hands of his party.

Whilst the AIM issue rightfully raised the ire of unelected politicians, ordinary citizens, netizens and even WP own supporters, all Chauvinist Low and Princess Sukarnoputri could do was to offer tepid responses. They left the dirty work and risks of raising and pursuing the AIM issue to unelected politicians, ordinary citizens, netizens and to their own supporters.

The AIM issue is a defining moment that encapsulates all that is wrong and all that have been said about the WP under the leadership of Chauvinist Low and Princess Sukarnoputri. It is fucking useless and hopeless.

 

[PTADER]

The SDP exists now as the party for martyrs and those who believe going to jail enhances ones election credibility. Lets just see the results in the PE BE. Locke

The problem with Chauvinisit Low is that he want others to do the dirty work whilst he reaps the reward. Ditto, for the bunch of WP members, astroturfers and WP race bigots.

They have described the SDP in various terms like "heavy artillery" bombarding the PAP whilst the WP would stroll in to collect the parliamentary prize. Like Chauvinist Low and WP's Princess Sukarnoputri, they want other parties to take the risks, do the dirty work whilst the WP reaps the reward.

It is high time the WP displayed some gratitude.

Chauvinisit Low and WP's Princess Sukarnoputri should acknowledge that if all the opposition parties had not contested or had played the role of "heavy artillery" thus distracting and forcing the PAP to divide its resources throughout the island, and if the "smelly shitskin" and "lazy m&d" minorities (the preferred disparaging and disrespectful terms for minorities from the WP Chinese chauvinists and WP race bigots) had not given their conditional support, Aljunied would be another Cheng San.

A simple "thank you" from Chauvinist Low and WP's Princess Sukarnoputri is in order.

 

[LordElrond]

It is difficult to understand what you are driving at. You are unhappy with everything WP does. Every move they make is an issue for you. What do you seriously expect from WP - elect Chee SJ as leader?? Your level of stupidity is unbelievable, are you for real?

 

[cleareyes]

It is difficult to understand what you are driving at. You are unhappy with everything WP does. Every move they make is an issue for you. What do you seriously expect from WP - elect Chee SJ as leader?? Your level of stupidity is unbelievable, are you for real?

basically, he want to see blood, lots of blood flowing

This is called calling for glory but not thinking of thye aftermath. Very typical of those who are selfish and not thinking about the impact of others.

 

[yellowarse]

It is difficult to understand what you are driving at. You are unhappy with everything WP does. Every move they make is an issue for you. What do you seriously expect from WP - elect Chee SJ as leader?? Your level of stupidity is unbelievable, are you for real?

He is a disgruntled old-time cadre member of WP with allegiance to JBJ, who sees LTK as having betrayed JBJ and selling out on the party's original multi-racialist platform. I know where he's coming from.

Incidentally, what he says resonates with many non-WP oppo supporters. It is telling that a respected forummer – a WP insider no less – speaking his mind frankly in a supposedly democratic forum gets infracted repeatedly by mobsters here. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what WP supporters' idea of free speech and expression is all about.

 

[metalmickey]

The problem with Chauvinisit Low is that he want others to do the dirty work whilst he reaps the reward. Ditto, for the bunch of WP members, astroturfers and WP race bigots.

.......

A simple "thank you" from Chauvinist Low and WP's Princess Sukarnoputri is in order.

What dirty work are you talking about? I thought that WP had been the one doing the heavy lifting where grassroots work is concerned.

Sitting down and talking cock about policy issues is hard work but not as much hard work as working the ground.

What I will agree with you is that Low Thia Khiang's opposition politics does not cover the whole spectrum and unlike most of his defenders I don't think that one opposition party is enough.

 

[SgParent]

.....LKY went one step beyond what Suharto did. He decided which party could be allowed to survive based on the individual who headed it. In common parlance, he decided which party would be the "PAP Approved Party".

SDP, under CST, was a PAP Approved Party. SDP, under CSJ, became a PAP Unapproved Party.

WP, under JBJ was not a PAP Approved Party. WP under Low, became a "PAP Approved Party. .

Interesting. You dislike Old White Scum on one hand but yet you believed the words he said about Ah Low on the other?

I do not see WP as compliant but rather lying low, play dead when the odds are high but strike when the opportunity comes. Same with CST, unfortunately he mixed with the selfish, greedy, naive, stupid ones.

If WP suffered the public humiliation, labeled as White Scum team B, but quietly chipping away the White Scums supremacy, brings down a few Ministars along the way, then why are we complaining?

Or you rather have characters like JBJ, CSJ, with all their fire and glory, made zero impact, if not negative ones?

 

[SgParent]

He is a disgruntled old-time cadre member of WP with allegiance to JBJ, who sees LTK as having betrayed JBJ and selling out on the party's original multi-racialist platform. I know where he's coming from.

If so then it explains. But surely he must have seen WP almost belly up with the threats of legal lawsuits then. And that was actually the last straw. What about the many incidents before that? Just look at SDP now. It is a replay of what'd happened to WP decades ago, just that SDP decided to stick with the stupid, selfish egomaniac, who has been bring more harm than good over the decades.

Incidentally, what he says resonates with many non-WP oppo supporters. It is telling that a respected forummer – a WP insider no less – speaking his mind frankly in a supposedly democratic forum gets infracted repeatedly by mobsters here. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what WP supporters' idea of free speech and expression is all about.

Agree, if those are really WP members/supporters. Or could they be just neutrals who disagree?

 

[metalmickey]

He is a disgruntled old-time cadre member of WP with allegiance to JBJ, who sees LTK as having betrayed JBJ and selling out on the party's original multi-racialist platform. I know where he's coming from.

Incidentally, what he says resonates with many non-WP oppo supporters. It is telling that a respected forummer – a WP insider no less – speaking his mind frankly in a supposedly democratic forum gets infracted repeatedly by mobsters here. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what WP supporters' idea of free speech and expression is all about.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?140149-SDP-will-withdraw&p=1367465#post1367465

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?140149-SDP-will-withdraw&p=1366175#post1366175

He's toned it down now and he sounds a little more moderate but when he started off, he was openly calling Low Thia Khiang a racist.

 

[yellowarse]

Or could they be just neutrals who disagree?

Neutrals (non-partisan opposition supporters or PAP supporters) wouldn't infract him.

 

[SgParent]

Neutrals (non-partisan opposition supporters or PAP supporters) wouldn't infract him.

Yah right. I would, if I bother enough.

 

[Fook Seng]

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what WP supporters' idea of free speech and expression is all about.

That showing of disapproval to his insistent lies is also a form of free speech. Unfortunately for him, this forum does not seem to have more of his kind to allow him to do as he likes. If he wants a better reception of his grudging, go to an website of SDP where many disgruntled ex-WP cadres have gone.

One thing I must add, the emotion that come with change in leadership is nothing new and since time immemorial, in China, with the passing of one dynasty to another, there were remnants of loyal subjects of the past emperors who refused to face the reality of change. But this fact of history cannot be easily erased. Otherwise there will not be things like winners and losers

 

[metalmickey]

Neutrals (non-partisan opposition supporters or PAP supporters) wouldn't infract him.

He was saying on the other thread that Low Thia Khiang is an out and out racist, Chinese chauvanist who made certain remarks about minorities that were overheard by others. That one neutrals would infract him.

To phrase it in a way that Scroobal phrased it, that Indians and Malays have very little presence in the upper echelons of WP, that it's hard to find capable minorities in WP, is more acceptable. Even what PTADER said later, that WP has moved away from the confrontational politics of JBJ to the more moderate, "acceptable to PAP" politics of LTK, is acceptable.

It depends on whether you cross the line or not.

 

[yellowarse]

That showing of disapproval to his insistent lies is also a form of free speech.

That's a joke.

You counter free speech with free speech.

Calling an infraction free speech is like saying that PAP is practising free speech by threatening to sue bloggers unless they remove their posts.

Then again, WP supporters have strange notions of free speech.

 

[yellowarse]

He was saying on the other thread that Low Thia Khiang is an out and out racist, Chinese chauvanist who made certain remarks about minorities that were overheard by others. That one neutrals would infract him.

I wouldn't. PTader didn't make a racist remark, e.g. Indians are untrustworthy. He said that somebody else, LTK, is racist.

First, it's free speech. Second, as an insider and as someone who knows LTK he might know something about LTK that I don't.

Whom am I to say that LTK is a racist or not, if I don't even know the guy? But if an insider speaks, I listen. I may or may not believe him, but he has every right to air his opinion.

 

[sleaguepunter]

I wouldn't. PTader didn't make a racist remark, e.g. Indians are untrustworthy. He said that somebody else, LTK, is racist.

First, it's free speech. Second, as an insider and as someone who knows LTK he might know something about LTK that I don't.

Whom am I to say that LTK is a racist or not, if I don't even know the guy? But if an insider speaks, I listen. I may or may not believe him, but he has every right to air his opinion.

i agree. ptader entitled to make what ever comments without any infractions from any forumers here. but that does not mean he can accuse anyone of being racist, bigot, or whatever without showing proof.

but i wont get my undie in twist due to what ptader posted as he seems to me to have personal problems against LTK which i not interested to know.

not happy with post then just ignore lor, no need to zap lah.

 

[yellowarse]

but i wont get my undie in twist due to what ptader posted as he seems to me to have personal problems against LTK which i not interested to know.

not happy with post then just ignore lor, no need to zap lah.

Agree, no need to zap.

Anyway, not just PTader, but I think many of the old guard and minorities have issues with LTK, some of whom have defected to other parties.

 

[SgParent]

..... but I think many of the old guard and minorities have issues with LTK, some of whom have defected to other parties.

How do you come to that conclusion? If there are more people joining WP from other parties or from minorities at the same time? Then how? One sparrow does not a summer make.

Just like TJS left SDP, would you say "see SDP got brain-drain, now left brain-dead"?