Audi and VW Cars

[roadrunner]

Yes I understand but I am just sharing that its is reliable according to users la in Thailand.

you want reliable, than go for a Toyota Hilux, got so many varients over the years, yes it's a pickup but these days the SUV version is buay pai, read all about it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux buy a 2nd hand one, got a few battle scars on it, never mind.. who wants to langgar with you & your hilux? guaranteed all other cars will give you wide berth!

 

[Leongsam]

you want reliable, than go for a Toyota Hilux, got so many varients over the years, yes it's a pickup but these days the SUV version is buay pai, read all about it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux buy a 2nd hand one, got a few battle scars on it, never mind.. who wants to langgar with you & your hilux? guaranteed all other cars will give you wide berth!

A lady backed into my Surf a couple of days ago. Her bumper hit the tow ball. When she moved forward, her whole bumper was ripped off.

Needless to say, my Surf suffered zero damage.

 

[roadrunner]

A lady backed into my Surf a couple of days ago. Her bumper hit the tow ball. When she moved forward, her whole bumper was ripped off. Needless to say, my Surf suffered zero damage.

Wow.. any macho man out there reading your story should have a huge erection by now! but somehow i can't see many people in SG driving a beat up or 2nd hand one out of choice, maybe when the cost of owning a car goes up even more, people will change their minds i drove mine with a broken suspension coil for 3 months & it was still ok, albeit everytime i take corner got machiam heavy metal Kerrang sound, very unnerving

 

[LeMans2011]

Talking to SamLeong about cars is like "discussing music with cows". All those out there who make hell lot of noise about poor reliability of conti cars - just ignore them, the last time they drove a conti car was probably 1985.

You can chose to drive a very reliable Toyota/Lexus - it is safe but lacks style and lifeless. It is like marrying the last virgin in your village.

Or you can choose to drive a hot Bemeer, Audi or Porsche - it has some reliability issues (except BMW 5 series from the previous generation which had a lot of issues) but by and large it is tolerable. The sales figures say it all. Again you can chose to believe the world is full of idiots and you are the only smart guy

 

[yellowarse]

German cars: superb engineering, technologically progressive, high performance/fuel-saving engine, driving 'soul', high safety quotient (on a par with the Swedish marques), most reliable among continental makes (but still a couple of notches below the Japs).

Japanese cars: the most reliable in the world, hands down, for two reasons:

1. The Japs design a car with reliability as the foremost criteria, followed by
2. Ease of servicing and maintenance, including mechanic's access to key components and parts

Performance, driveability, design aesthetics are all secondary for most Japanese marques.

 

[garlic]

That bullshit was started by the sinkie car salesmen who had to think up excuses for why a 6 month old continental car was leaking oil.

Europe gets just as hot in summer. In fact, in many places, it's far hotter. Spain, France and Italy regularly reach the mid 40s in July/Aug. Singapore is cool in comparison.

That's right, was at greece and cyprus few years back.. their summer temps hover between 40-42+ deg C. The good thing is that their humidity is much lower than SG. During the summers all folks there drink this beverage "frappe" to cool down.. very similar to the frappucinno in starbucks..

Those salesman just saying shit from their own imagination to sell a car..

 

[garlic]

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what-car-reliability-survey-2012/263555


Volkswagen 20th=
Last year's position 20/35
Cars needing repair work 39%
Average repair cost £339
Best model Lupo ('99-'05)
Worst model Phaeton ('03-)

Volkswagen's 20th place isn't as good as the company image suggests. Only three VWs make the top 10 in their class, and even then the best-ranked (Phaeton) is only third.

Audi 26th
Last year's position 24/35
Cars needing repair work 42%
Average repair cost £471
Best model TT ('06-)
Worst model A4 Cabriolet ('01-'05)

Another drop for Audi, because of high repair costs and a poor RI score.

The A4 Cabriolet ('01-'05) is the least reliable, with nearly 40% of its problems being electrical and costing an average of £532 to fix. The TT ('06-) is better, with a 25% failure rate and an RI score of 80.

Judging from this list, Lexus seems the most reliable luxury marque?

 

[Conqueror]

Switch Off = Happiness ?

Judging from this list, Lexus seems the most reliable luxury marque?

Every time when you turn on the ignition switch and it cranks and the engine runs without stalling = reliable.

Reliability is the key to happiness ?

Does that means an average looking wife will make you happy ?

 

[king_of_abalone]

Just 10 years ago, not many car buyers would even consider an Audi or VW car. They were known as troublesome cars. About 3 years ago, I noticed both brands being desired items. A&P? Or, the range of cars available?

Peugeot, Citroen, Opel, Alfa, Saab etc are still lagging behind. They don't have that many models to choose from, in the first place.

Agree?

The launch of the B8 series of A4 in 2008/2009 kicked off a whole new era for Audi. Yes a lot of it was A&P and marketing but it was also the new styling that turned most former BMW customers to Audi. In the UK, Audi became the new yob mobile, ang moh bengs who used to drive Bimmers now turned to Audi.

Back in the day, Audi was one of those offbeat (to the typical Singaporean consumer who valued status and resale value above all) cars that people who were sick of MB and BMW bought. My uncle used to drive the Audi 100 and since that time I have had a fascination for the brand. It wasn't until VW turned Audi into an MB BMW contender (in the early 2000's vis a vis the B5/B6 A4) that sales began to take off.

In a little less than 10 years, VW had expanded the Audi model range into 10 models with more than 30 varients and incorporated their quattro gmbh tuning house into their model range (the S and RS variants) to give Audi a street cred to rival the legendary M and AMG of its competitors.

VW seems intent to take over the world, with its recent acquisition of Porsche, it is now the biggest carmaker in the world and covers the entire spectrum of price point and markets, from SEAT/Skoda to VW to Audi to Lamborghini to Porsche and Bentley. It makes great economic sense as well as production efficiency as platforms, powertrains, drivetrains and parts are shared across brands and models.

 

[king_of_abalone]

i typically refrain from buying a german model on its 1st year. a water valve on my colleague's spanking new beemer broke because it was made of plastic to lessen the weight, and engine overheated.

Many things in the Bimmer's engine compartment are made of lightweight plastic to save weight. That is how every BMW has 50/50 front/rear weight distribution. Perfect handling characteristics.

I love Bimmers and I currently have 2. Audi, while more comfortable and luxurious, still are unable to achieve that perfect handling and weight balance in their cars. They have to resort to all wheel drive to attempt to make Audi handle (almost) as well as a BMW, and yet they still don't come anywhere close.

I was in Germany recently and drove an A6 avant 3.0 turbo diesel V6. That car was so front heavy that handling really sucked. But on straight roads on the autobahn, it felt like it could pull forever, given the monstrous torque the engine produced.

 

[king_of_abalone]

You're on the button... the answer is assembly, parts, complexity.

If you want a car to be reliable, it has to be designed and assembled with reliability in mind before all else.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html

It is usually a trade off between reliability and horsepower produced. To date, only Honda has shown that it can deliver the best of both worlds. And they never needed turbocharging.

For the Germans, perhaps only BMW has achieved that reliability plus horsepower in their naturally aspirated 3.2L inline 6 of the E46 M3 and the N.A. 4 liter V8 in the E90/92/93 M3.

 

[eatshitndie]

I was in Germany recently and drove an A6 avant 3.0 turbo diesel V6. That car was so front heavy that handling really sucked. But on straight roads on the autobahn, it felt like it could pull forever, given the monstrous torque the engine produced.

the audi is designed to perform well on the autobahn, no doubt. the bmw 3 series have been tweaked over decades to sell to the world as a small 4-door luxury sedan or 2-door sports. it's handling is superb. the m3 is the epitome of that class in the over 300 hp category and tight road handling. not so thrilled with the 5 and 7 series. ironically, two of the best selling sedans in california this year are from hyundai: sonata and genesis. koreans are coming!

 

[king_of_abalone]

the audi is designed to perform well on the autobahn, no doubt. the bmw 3 series have been tweaked over decades to sell to the world as a small 4-door luxury sedan or 2-door sports. it's handling is superb. the m3 is the epitome of that class in the over 300 hp category and tight road handling. not so thrilled with the 5 and 7 series. ironically, two of the best selling sedans in california this year are from hyundai: sonata and genesis. koreans are coming!

Yes the Koreans are really sticking it to the Japs! They are intent on hitting the big time, hiring the Audi chief designer to design their cars and it has reaped them rewards so far.

See, it is possible to be an internationally reckoned force with high ambitions, good strategic planning, the hiring of the right talent and a whole lot of balls to go where none of their countrymen had previously dared to venture: look at Samsung, Kia, Hyundai. Where were they 10 years ago? And look where they are now.

The Singapore Govt should take a long hard look at how the Koreans had managed to do it. Their business model of over-reliance on Foreign Direct Investment is certainly not sustainable. There are rapidly up-and-coming ASEAN economies that are increasingly providing low cost, increasingly higher- educated labour and there will come a time when the MNCs will ship out of Singapore, heading for greener pastures readily available in the neighborhood.

 

[Papsmearer]

I am curious and hopefully someone can throw some light on this - the German engineering is world renown yet their reliability index is poor compared to the Japanese. I recall when Honda entered F1, they delivered the best engines and not the usual marquees. We are talking about since the 1970s when Toyota became the most reliable car. I just don't get it. What are the issues - assembly, parts, complexity etc

I (including my immediate family) have owned German cars (VW, BMWs, Mercedes), European cars (Volvo), and Japanese cars (Honda, Toyotas, Nissans, Lexus, Subaru). Currently, everyone has switched over to almost 100% japanese cars. Of the 10 cars we own collectively, 80% are Japanese. We used to be almost all European car owners. But the quality is so bad now, its better to go Japanese.

If you look at German cars, they are over engineered to make things look cutesy and impress the simple minds of the noveau rich. A few years ago, I got into a new Mercs E class at a car show and just to use the hidden cup holder, it involved 3 movements of a mechanical arm. Other cars just have the cup holder there for u to use, no need to press a button. U imagine this fancy part failing, and many other such fancy parts can fail too. They also tried to go cheap on their transmission, but results in catastrophic failure when the transmission conks off. Thousands of dollars in repairs. In most parts of north america, u will be surprised at how fast a used Mercs depreciates in value. Lexus is a much better option. German cars are prone to electronic and electrical failures especially their locks and power windows.

 

[Leongsam]

You can chose to drive a very reliable Toyota/Lexus - it is safe but lacks style and lifeless. It is like marrying the last virgin in your village.

I don't blame you for having these sorts of impressions. That's what marketing does and companies such as BMW are masters of the game. I was hoodwinked too.

However, after having owned or driven a bunch of so called continental marquees, I emerged wiser but poorer. Strip away all the hype and a BMW is just another car. It handles well but no better than a rear wheel drive jap car that has been tuned for handling rather than comfort. The difference is in the reliability. A Beemer is great to drive only when everything is working properly and such instances are few and far between.

With regards to Toyota being lifeless, check out the review on the new 86. If hype works on you, you'll love it.

 

[Leongsam]

If you look at German cars, they are over engineered to make things look cutesy and impress the simple minds of the noveau rich. A few years ago, I got into a new Mercs E class at a car show and just to use the hidden cup holder,

When I was in the electronics industry, Bosch (that makes the electronics for many German cars), was one of our customers.

The components they ordered were very complex and hard to manufacture. Yields were low and that's never good news in the reliability stakes. It means that even amongst the units that meet specifications, there are many marginal cases and these are the ones that fail prematurely.

We had a few Jap automotive customers too. The designs where simple... double sided PCBs.. thick traces... minimum number of vias. In other words, a bullet proof design. We could run a batch of 1000 with 99% yield vs 65% for the Bosch designs.

 

[eatshitndie]

We had a few Jap automotive customers too. The designs where simple... double sided PCBs.. thick traces... minimum number of vias. In other words, a bullet proof design. We could run a batch of 1000 with 99% yield vs 65% for the Bosch designs.

i've been struggling to understand the root cause of high defects in german automotive electrical/electronic parts and the high reliability in jap e/e parts. this pretty much sums it all. sbf has been a good resource for snippets of facts like these.

 

[Leongsam]

i've been struggling to understand the root cause of high defects in german automotive electrical/electronic parts and the high reliability in jap e/e parts. this pretty much sums it all. sbf has been a good resource for snippets of facts like these.

The Germans ARE great engineers. They designed electronic modules that could control a myriad of functions and they put everything onto an 8 layer PCB with 4 mil traces. We told them that this was very hard to make. They told us that we were lousy manufacturers if that was the case. We struggled with the manufacturing process. They struggled with the resulting reliability problems.

The Japs have a different philosophy. They wanted to make the design as easy as possible to manufacture by keeping things simple. This is the Toyota philosophy. Reliability comes first. The adding of the bells and the whistles can come after reliability has a proven track record.

 

[Cestbon]

electrical components and wiring in audi and bmw suck. some issues are results of poor electrical contacts in sockets. simple issue, but it takes german engineers forever to figure out.

jap factories outside japan get many of their electrical and electronic components from their supply chain in japan. the archilles heels of automobiles are in these components. i've said it before. german electrical components suck.

German good in mechanical but suck in electronic. That why all electronic company one by one die off in Germany.

 

[Froggy]

When I was in the electronics industry, Bosch (that makes the electronics for many German cars), was one of our customers.

The components they ordered were very complex and hard to manufacture. Yields were low and that's never good news in the reliability stakes. It means that even amongst the units that meet specifications, there are many marginal cases and these are the ones that fail prematurely.

We had a few Jap automotive customers too. The designs where simple... double sided PCBs.. thick traces... minimum number of vias. In other words, a bullet proof design. We could run a batch of 1000 with 99% yield vs 65% for the Bosch designs.

This is great revelation, thanks Leongsam. When finally "forced" to try a Lexus after disappointing experiences owning a few continental cars, I never look back. Problem in this part of the world Lexus is quite expensive compare to the other markets. The three markets I am more familiar with has prices as follows and surprisingly Indonesia where I am living now is more reasonably priced for Lexus: