Ravi Philemon: Hougang is not WP’s own little fiefdom

[Perspective]

Can't you understand the conjunctive for the alternative "or"? I have to use that "or" since I'm referring to a group of persons who may be "or" or "and." Anyway, cool down over it my dear friend, you should see by now I meant no malice over it, just to make a point that there's no such thing as an orchestrated WP IB.

You know what I am saying, so will leave it. I get your point that you were saying that there's no WP IB. Long time ago, we did act a bit like an unauthorised IB in the past, but that is not healthy for discussion. Like you said of your ahkua friend, everything a person or a party does is wrong or right, we will start from the premise of it being right (or wrong), then work backwards to come up with the arguments/points, rather than look at an issue and say whatever that comes to our heart. And a lot of times for the former, the arguments become superfluous. Might as well not discuss then.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Maybe you should re-educate yourself by reading the fully translated article here.

http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2012/03/hougang-by-election-analysis-translated.html

Ravi is saying there is no right or wrong for others to contest in Hougang, I am saying it may just inevitable for a 3 corner fight in Hougang because this seed has been planted by WP itself in last GE as well as their aggressive intention in Tampines and Marine Parade for next GE.

I am no advocate for 3 corner fights but alas, I am just seeing the inevitable outcomes, be it now or later.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear Rams

Is quite simple and I say this as a WP member and supporter. Hougang is definitely not WP's little fiefdom and democracy is about choice and free choice, but WHEN the PAP treats Singapore likes its liffle fiefdom, with GRCs, Gerrymandering, Use of the PA during elections, etc etc, Why do we shout scream abt democracy at a small opposition constituency when the PAP has been systematically suppressing it nation wide ?

The Malaysian Opposition at least did not bother with a facade of cooperation when they had SOME SEATS or some semblance of numbers of seat. They regretted it when they saw how splitting the vote costs them more seats and swung together with gritted teeth the next round.

Ravi and GMS are all advocating killing each other before anyone one person has gained sufficient seats against the PAP. Its the equivalent of saying if I cannot be the strongest opposition party against the PAP I would rather help kill the strongest opposition party against the democracy killing PAP and yes ALL In the NAME of democratic choice.


Locke

 

[brocoli]

Your statement means that currently at this point, I am either a WP member or supporter. Is that what you were trying to relay - that I am a WP member or supporter? Then you prove it.

I may be an occasional volunteer with one of the 5 Aljunied divisions

you are a volunteer...if you dun support them why help them???

and to be fair, I feel from your posting, you are 1 of the most partisan WP supporter here ... more so than even the self declared WP members around...

which is why I dun think you are a member... an actual member will not be so loyal...

and to be fair, you have not been inconsistent or illogical as well...

 

[Perspective]

you are a volunteer...if you dun support them why help them???

and to be fair, I feel from your posting, you are 1 of the most partisan WP supporter here ... more so than even the self declared WP members around...

which is why I dun think you are a member... an actual member will not be so loyal...

and to be fair, you have not been inconsistent or illogical as well...

To be specific, only Meet People Sessions. I ended up in CSM MPS session for personal and familiarity issue. Otherwise, I have no compunction going downstairs to help my PAP MP below my block. Either channel allows me to do something for the people be it whichever party it is, not for any ambitions (otherwise I would do more) but impacting lives is part of my faith doctrine. If you have done CA at MPS, you would know that you can skip being bothered with who the MP is, as CAs deal directly with residents.

If I have been more partisan than what-would-be normal levels on WP, then although it is not a crime, perhaps I should review myself even though I think WP had their sums right in many ways that happened to be topics here. But it's interesting to say that "an actual member will not be so loyal".

 

[Ramseth]

Ravi is saying there is no right or wrong for others to contest in Hougang, I am saying it may just inevitable for a 3 corner fight in Hougang because this seed has been planted by WP itself in last GE as well as their aggressive intention in Tampines and Marine Parade for next GE.

I am no advocate for 3 corner fights but alas, I am just seeing the inevitable outcomes, be it now or later.

You're contradicting yourself again. PAP can of course field 100% for all seats contested. Don't other opposition parties wish to grow and strive to grow? If one day, WP can contest 40%, SPP can contest 40%, NSP can contest 40%, SDP can contest 40%, RP can contest 40%. If you know maths, that's 200% contesting over 100%. How can there be no overlapping 3-corners? Invade Malaysia or Indonesia to create and gerrymander more constituencies, my dear captain? If you're prepared to negotiate to reduce that, learn from Malaysian Anwar and PR political tsunami in 2008, give and take. Don't think you're always right and others are all your egoistic sacrificial chips.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Your sense of self-righteousness sometimes strikes me as nearing and bordering GMS. Don't think that you're always right. Don't think that others don't have the right to say it. If privy info came from you, I'd respect you and never quote you and never reveal it. If I have my own sources, it's up to my discretion, fair enough?

You, Perspective & Cleareyes I've no idea what's going on in this love triangle, and have no wish to know either ... But your own self-righteous claim that you never real private information or privy information is blatantly untrue.

PTADER has already exposed you when he cleverly slipped you a false piece of intel about Scroobal, and you promptly tried to use it against Scroo when he and I were taking you on last year. And let's not even get started about all the little personal details you have been dropping about JXL, GMS, Bob Sim, and other friends of yours all these years, right from the start of 2008 when the forum began and perhaps even earlier in delphi. You should be glad you have magnanimous friends. Others would have booted you out from their clique long ago. And what you did to Perspective, GMS and Bob Sim when you played that prank about you dying was quite low, even by your standards.

Back to the topic, the term "IB" is very misused, but you can't deny that from time to time, certain elements have surfaced that purported to support various parties in certain unusual fashions. We have had SDP elements, WP elements, all proclaiming support but all ending in flame wars, and you can't deny that. Learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. Sometimes it's clear there's a charade going on, but you insist on legitimizing it. I can't fathom why.

 

[Ramseth]

And what you did to Perspective, GMS and Bob Sim when you played that prank about you dying was quite low, even by your standards.

The rest are all very entangled long stories, I'm sure you'd understand. The prank that I was dead was played by my American friend visiting. He was also half dead half drunk then. He used my handphone to randomly send the prank SMSes. Not everyone on my memory list recieved the prank. He was also already totally drunk before he was halfway through. I've clarified this to my many friends who turned prank victims. I still bear responsibility and offer apology for that. No excuse, I agree. Even Lamei received the SMS prank, got shocked but after my clarification and apology when sober, she accepted with a smile. Why are you all more petty than a woman?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I am no advocate for 3 corner fights

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

The rest are all very entangled long stories, I'm sure you'd understand. The prank that I was dead was played by my American friend visiting. He was also half dead half drunk then. He used my handphone to randomly send the prank SMSes. Not everyone on my memory list recieved the prank. He was also already totally drunk before he was halfway through. I've clarified this to my many friends who turned prank victims. I still bear responsibility and offer apology for that. No excuse, I agree. Even Lamei received the SMS prank, got shocked but after my clarification and apology when sober, she accepted with a smile. Why are you all more petty than a woman?

Don't want to pollute this thread with off topic discussion. I'm also counting myself lucky I don't know, nor understand your sob stories. I'm sure if I did, you would have outed my ID long ago.

Back to the topic, the china has real IB going around the internet luring dissidents and then rounding them out when their trust has been gained. That is real IB work. Iran is good at this too, their intelligence is first class and when their secret agencies act, real govts can be hurt. Moscow too is classic at this game. So please don't talk about IB. You insult all these real IBs out there who can really bring down govts.

 

[brocoli]

WP has never had any IB. Forummers like myself, Locke, Perspective, Cleareyes et al have been forumming for years well before we join or support WP. And Cleareyes put it well, WP doesn't have the manpower for an IB too. The term IB came into being from PAP, that has the manpower, when Denise Phua (my dear Kg. Glam playground MP) let slipped in a NUS forum that she was shocked that some 85% or so on internet were anti-PAP. She called for "management" and that was how PAP IB came into being. She's basically a nice and well-meaning lady. I didn't blame her for being shocked. It's good to have both sides of the story anyway.

Forummers like yourself, Locke, Perspective, Cleareyes et al have been forumming for years well before we join or support WP.

but now that you have been sexpose as WP members maybe you will be recognise as WP IB... i think its better for WP to be less transparent and not have you guys misrepresent them ... just let Gerald and choon yong represent WP as media chair and Webmaster...

and Denise Phua Chee BYE can prease eff herself with her tax raising plan

 

[Ramseth]

The rest are all very entangled long stories, I'm sure you'd understand. The prank that I was dead was played by my American friend visiting. He was also half dead half drunk then. He used my handphone to randomly send the prank SMSes. Not everyone on my memory list recieved the prank. He was also already totally drunk before he was halfway through. I've clarified this to my many friends who turned prank victims. I still bear responsibility and offer apology for that. No excuse, I agree. Even Lamei received the SMS prank, got shocked but after my clarification and apology when sober, she accepted with a smile. Why are you all more petty than a woman?

Since we're at it, back to the past, I really felt having overdosed on whisky that day and got knocked out and after my American friend went to airport to depart for his home, I was already in a semi-collapsible state. Two WP members visited me. They saw with their own eyes. I assured them that I was alright but the next day, I checked into hospital without telling them or anyone else except my kins. I didn't want to cause anybody any more trouble.

 

[Perspective]

i think its better for WP to be less transparent and not have you guys misrepresent them

Agree. I think that to have a proper internet PR team (which I would not want to use the label "IB"), any party members need to have a fair understanding of party strategies.

For example, in the other thread, I find it difficult to discuss WP's decision on MP and MK. (Not because I agree with insect's wordy waste that it tries to pass as true story or concerned with whatever "high" results of 1% more in MP.) I would wonder why they chose to contest 4 GRCs that did not touch one another but were far apart unlike 2006. Although I would not Qiang Ci Duo Li.

 

[brocoli]

Agree. I think that to have a proper internet PR team (which I would not want to use the label "IB"), any party members need to have a fair understanding of party strategies.

For example, in the other thread, I find it difficult to discuss WP's decision on MP and MK. (Not because I agree with insect's wordy waste that it tries to pass as true story or concerned with whatever "high" results of 1% more in MP.) I would wonder why they chose to contest 4 GRCs that did not touch one another but were far apart unlike 2006. Although I would not Qiang Ci Duo Li.

whatever they post can be used or twisted by the enemy... or at worse piss off neutrals... like when Candice was piss off by RAM remark on its ok to womanise...

whatever they post can be miscontructed, misrepresent, or misunderstood as WP official stance...

Thats why in some case I think they are a liability to the party...

as for party strategies. I dun think no1 know except Low... I dun think other CEC member even know... mosy of the time they just parrot the boss

 

[Ramseth]

whatever they post can be used or twisted by the enemy... or at worse piss off neutrals... like when Candice was piss off by RAM remark on its ok to womanise...

whatever they post can be miscontructed, misrepresent, or misunderstood as WP official stance...

I'm not a CEC member. I can womanize all I want as everybody in WP, NTUC, SPF and PAP etc. knows damn well by now. I only take responsibility and account to the woman, in a responsible, satisfactory and amicable manner. I'm not a CEC member or MP or even candidate for crying out loud's sake. I represent nobody except myself.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

whatever they post can be used or twisted by the enemy... or at worse piss off neutrals... like when Candice was piss off by RAM remark on its ok to womanise...

Candice is Ram himself.

 

[Ramseth]

Candice is Ram himself.

Yeah right, yeah right, I'm Candice and Irene and pretty soon I'll be running a harem integrated resort, yeah?

 

[Perspective]

konglanjiaowei.jpg

That is precisely the one other volte-face and self-depreciating thing about the Fat Village Insect. For someone who dishes out a very high amount of assertions, accusations and allegations, the amount that he stands by and faces up to when questioned is certainly very little in proportion. Just go for easy bits which make up only 5% of the posts questioning to him and even this 5% he reply with something not very relevant and to the point. If you are really truthful in your heart, some of the questions don't even need a minute to answer. And he's supposed to be a religious man, my foot.

 

[Sadist]

Back to the topic, the china has real IB going around the internet luring dissidents and then rounding them out when their trust has been gained. That is real IB work. Iran is good at this too, their intelligence is first class and when their secret agencies act, real govts can be hurt. Moscow too is classic at this game. So please don't talk about IB. You insult all these real IBs out there who can really bring down govts.

PAP IB, are they an insult to the real IBs?

In any case, my observation is spot on. This has long been an albino forum for WP centric voices and is really unhealthy. All I am asking is, be fair to those that their voices are not represented here. Comment as you may sees fit, but rubbishing any pro-Singaporean views just because they are not in align with WP will be seen as suppressing alternative voices and will not be taken kindly.

 

[3_M]

Maybe you should re-educate yourself by reading the fully translated article here.

http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2012/03/hougang-by-election-analysis-translated.html

Ravi is saying there is no right or wrong for others to contest in Hougang, I am saying it may just inevitable for a 3 corner fight in Hougang because this seed has been planted by WP itself in last GE as well as their aggressive intention in Tampines and Marine Parade for next GE.

I am no advocate for 3 corner fights but alas, I am just seeing the inevitable outcomes, be it now or later.

Goh Meng Seng

Having 3 corner fight is good, I will be worried if there is no 3 corner fight in 2016 cause it shows opposition parties are not growing.

 

[wwabbit]

Having 3 corner fight is good, I will be worried if there is no 3 corner fight in 2016 cause it shows opposition parties are not growing.

Agree with this. The signs are pointing to the main opposition parties growing and there are limited slices of pie available. I don't expect any opposition gains in GE2016 - at most Joo Chiat SMC if that is still around. GE2016 will likely be the stage where Worker's Party will try to exert its dominance over all the other opposition parties while the other opposition parties will be fighting to remain relevant.

What happened at Punggol East SMC is exactly what WP wants to happen at GE2016 - completely obliterating the other opposition party. The purpose of course is to become the dominant opposition party in GE2021 where a vote for a party other than PAP or WP would be a wasted vote. The PE2011 result couldn't have helped WP more to achieve this as it has taught the population the consequences of voting for a candidate outside of the 2 leading ones.

There are a few ways the other opposition parties can try to avoid becoming irrelevant.
1) Go into a 3CF with the WP and PAP and do better than the WP
2) Win (or a very very close loss) in a constituency that the WP will not compete in
3) Blog a lot about how "arrogant", "evil" and "pro-PAP" the WP is for forcing 3CFs

I don't see how #3 is going to work though...