• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not target

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
I dont know why the PAP nowadays can never get anything right the first time. Despite having involved possibly hundreds of people - perm secs, senior civil servants, scholars etc- and overseen by Ministers and the Cabinet, they came out with a paper where the 6.9 million number became the most important subject. It occurred to nobody, nobody, that the man in the street could misread and misunderstood the number to be target.

If anybody needs any further example of a total disconnect between the communicator and the communicated, then this must be it.

Surely it's symptomatic of the Great Divide between the Ruler and the ruled. The top still has no fucking idea how the bottom thinks.

So now we have every Minister, MOS, MP scrambling madly to do damage control. But alas! another opportunity to rebuild that trust is again trashed.
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

First, they created the shit and threw at the people. When the voice of unhappiness became loud and clear, they turned around and said the shit was not meant to be thrown, they just created for fun.

Recall the apology by LHL during the last watershed GE? Now he said it doesn't work that way, Singaporeans must follow his way - again!
 

SgParent

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

........So now we have every Minister, MOS, MP scrambling madly to do damage control. But alas! another opportunity to rebuild that trust is again trashed.

True pink Singaporeans should not, must not be fooled by the White Scums anymore. This is the critical moment for you to think about what little is left of Singapore for your children.

The White Scums are just playing with words. What "target", "schedule", "worst case"? The definition of "worst case" does not mean it is ruled out. With so many changes coming, Medisave, more land sales, public transport, etc, etc, it is clear the White Scums have already decided to shoot for more foreigners. Be it 6.9M or 9.6M. It simply means more and more foreigners.
 

watchman8

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

Pure bs. Actual target is 8 mil. How I know?

Because addition 700,000 housing units is meant for 2.8 mil people. 5.3 + 2.8 = 8.1 mil.

Another clue. Mrt lines to double in length by 2030. Today's mrt is designed for around 4 mil population. So doubling of today's mrt length means it is to cater for 8 mil population.

All pap scums and liars.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

Because the pappies have run a monopoly for so long, they don't have a clue when it comes to marketing an idea or a philosophy. In Western democracies, spin doctors are the most important element of any government.

Elections can be lost because of one wrong step. In NZ, labour lost the 2008 election because of an issue of eco light bulbs. It was the turning point of the campaign. I'm not kidding.
 

Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

They are worried,many protest letters to PAP MPs,they know they will lose in 2016,out of parliament and gone are all the lobangs for money,$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
Last edited:

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

The top still has no fucking idea how the bottom thinks.

That's because it's very hard for smart people to comprehend how stupid people view the world. :rolleyes:
 

Dreamer1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

That's because it's very hard for smart people to comprehend how stupid people view the world. :rolleyes:
Boss Sam,please allow me to make a small correction-
That's because it's very hard for Exterm,Beri smart people to comprehend how stupid people view the world,BTW,TESE PEOPLE ARE NOT IN THIS WORLD,thank you,boss,hope no trouble for ban!
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

Boss Sam,please allow me to make a small correction-
That's because it's very hard for Exterm,Beri smart people to comprehend how stupid people view the world,BTW,TESE PEOPLE ARE NOT IN THIS WORLD,thank you,boss,hope no trouble for ban!

To be honest I have the same problem as the PAP. I have often read moronic comments and ridiculous suggestions put forth here and I wonder to myself "what planet is this guy on?!!!!".:*:

The stupidity in this forum has to be seen to be believed. Luckily, there are redeeming members like Kinana and Tonychat who help me maintain my sanity.
 

watchman8

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

Because the pappies have run a monopoly for so long, they don't have a clue when it comes to marketing an idea or a philosophy. In Western democracies, spin doctors are the most important element of any government.

Elections can be lost because of one wrong step. In NZ, labour lost the 2008 election because of an issue of eco light bulbs. It was the turning point of the campaign. I'm not kidding.
You must be smelling too much sheep fart. The pap even has a known spin doctor as an MP. And the entire non internet media industry is fully controlled by pap.

Problem is that they wanted to up the population very badly, and they thought 6.9 mil is the figure that can be sold to sinkie sheep. Afterall it sounds a lot less than 8 million, and not too far from current 5.3 million.

Sinkies are offsprings of Chinese with some foresight because they escaped the china shithole. They know what shit looks and smells like, in which no amount of spin can cover the stench.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

You must be smelling too much sheep fart. The pap even has a known spin doctor as an MP. And the entire non internet media industry is fully controlled by pap.

There is a big difference between "spin" and selective reporting.

The Straits Times is used to simply reporting what it is told to report without regard to the consequences. It does not take into account the mood of the nation and the nuances that particular words convey.

In the the case of NZ, the labour party had to deal with its deteriorating image as the "nanny government" because it was beginning to intrude too often into the private lives of individuals.

The eco light bulb debacle was the nail in their coffin.
 

OldFart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

In our type of democracy here there is no need to "scramble" or "clarify" anything. Just like before if the people don't understand just do it why explain its like PAP does not have to power to just do it instead of being distracted by these people. Hsien Loong and his team are showing signs of weakness more and more.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

The people behind this paper are relatively lightweight - Iswaran, Grace Fu, Halimah and CJ Tan. THe Perm Sec is Niam, another lighweight. Like the National Conversation, they engaged the usual flock.

It is not even a white paper, no reference to anything, no raw data, no stats on emigraion etc. Its a promotional and at the same time an appeasing, more to manage expectation.

The other issue is the failure to differentiate between real Singaporeans (born Singaporeans or actual Singaporeans vs naturalised Singaporeans. All lumped as Citizens.

The entire premise is too keep the economy humming and maintain the govt's curent burden level of managing the incapable (the elderly).

Have any of you guys met Iswaran? Very pleasant guy, no airs, rational and quite capable. So are many hundreds or even thousands of Singaporeans.

I found the effort that went into paternity leave particularly interesting.

And nowhere in the paper did they explain the TFR significant uptrend that began in 85 and fell back in 89 ( why were tax incentives withdrawn when it seems to be working)
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

Let's give the PAP the benefit of doubt and accept that as the truth.

Here's the problem - the PAP wants to use the 6.9 figure to plan for infrastructure. Are they saying that they will build for 6.9 million even though they have no plan to reach 6.9 milllion? And the PAP is showing how inefficient they plan to be by planning to run empty trains, overbuild flats and roads, built more schools than needed.

If we accept the ministers' claim, then they should all be fired as they plan to waste taxpayers' money on infrastructure.
 

FredTan76

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

Sylvia's gonna shoot some bullets this noon when e white paper is tabled after LLL is sworn in....
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
I have a nasty feeling that the 6.9 mil is already here in our midst. The White Paper is only to allow them to cover up and con us into allowing them time and resources to do the catch up!

Senior Fellow LKYIPS Donald Low criticised the Paper for not citing references so no one can shoot them if they are wrong.

Every one of the experts thought the figure is too low. To me, if they use a high projection to plan, well and good. But knowing the PAP and its competence now, I 'd say they also shld focus on controlling the inflow numbers! Something they fucked up badly! It's not so much the overplanning but the undercontrolling.

The gov shld declare a moratorium now on inflows and start ramping up infrastructure as if for 6.9 million.
 
Last edited:

watchman8

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

I have a nasty feeling that the 6.9 mil is already here in our midst. The White Paper is only to allow them to cover up and con us into allowing them time and resources to do the catch up!

GIC ex-chief economist Donald Low criticised the Paper for not citing references so no one can shoot them if they are wrong.

Every one of the experts thought the figure is too low. To me, if they use a high projection to plan, well and good. But knowing the PAP and its competence now, I 'd say they also shld focus on controlling the inflow numbers! Something they fucked up badly! It's not so much the overplanning but the undercontrolling.

The gov shld declare a moratorium now on inflows and start ramping up infrastructure as if for 6.9 million.
The inflow was deliberate.

How do we know? Because in 2011 GE, the people already voiced it out very loud and LHL acknowledged it. But after the election, the inflow continued unabated. TCJ tweek a little here and there for wayang purpose only.

This white paper serves to confirm their real intention. Note that the infrastructure plans is meant for 8 mil population in 2030. 6.9 mil is fake. 8 mil is real target.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

That makes it even worse. Experts noted that this govt is notoriously poor in managing inflows so past projections have always been exceeded. If they use 8 million as figure, going by their track record, by the time they are able to tote up and tally every inflow, the pop will well bust 8 mil!


The inflow was deliberate.

How do we know? Because in 2011 GE, the people already voiced it out very loud and LHL acknowledged it. But after the election, the inflow continued unabated. TCJ tweek a little here and there for wayang purpose only.

This white paper serves to confirm their real intention. Note that the infrastructure plans is meant for 8 mil population in 2030. 6.9 mil is fake. 8 mil is real target.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/experts-weigh-population-projections


Experts weigh in on population projections


BY
WOO SIAN BOON
-6 HOURS 30 MIN AGO
SINGAPORE — As Parliament sits today to debate the White Paper on population, some experts have questioned the soundness and accuracy of the projected population figures, given the difficulty in forecasting population growth.

Citing the Government’s track record of underestimating population growth, they noted that external factors, such as the global economy and the demand for labour, would likely throw such forecasts off the mark.

Nevertheless, others felt that policymakers would have gleaned lessons from past instances and factored in a buffer in their latest projections.

In particular, demographer Gavin Jones from the Asia Research Institute at the National University of Singapore (NUS) pointed out that the population projections for 2030 factored in more than two million non-residents. This would give policymakers some “flexibility”, he noted.

The White Paper projects that by 2020, there could be between 5.8 million and 6 million people in Singapore. By 2030, the range is projected to increase to between 6.5 million and 6.9 million.

But Economic Society of Singapore Vice-President Yeoh Lam Keong reiterated that population growth “always tends to exceed projected forecast”.

“Because, firstly, there is very strong demand for labour from existing labour-intensive industries, and industry has a strong influence on immigration policy,” he said.

“Secondly, given economic uncertainty, during the times when we have growth, the Government tends to err on the side of caution and go for more growth. Given these two tendencies, we tend to systematically overshoot population growth, not intentionally, but because of circumstance and current institutional practice.”

While SIM University economics professor Randolph Tan noted that such forecasts are “always notoriously inaccurate”, he felt that publishing the White Paper was a “responsible” move by the Government, as it allows Singaporeans to air their concerns and hear “both sides of the debate”.

But he said that policymakers could have come up with a less definitive forecast. Instead, Singaporeans could be informed about the probability of reaching a population of 6.9 million by 2030, he suggested.

“The question therefore … is, what is the precision of the projections? What is the potential error range? How far can we afford to be wrong?”

The Government’s past population projections have been below the mark. For example, the Urban Redevelopment Authority’s Concept Plan in 1991 projected a population of four million to be reached after 2010.

By 2000, however, the Republic’s total population had already crossed that mark.

In 2001, the population was estimated to hit 5.5 million in the long term. When it reached 4.6 million in 2007, the projection for planning purposes was adjusted to 6.5 million. The Government had acknowledged that it was caught off guard by the surge in the number of immigrants.

NUS sociologist Tan Ern Ser felt that the Government, in learning from its past experience, “would have built in some buffers and not cut (the projection) too close”.

Agreeing with Dr Tan, NUS Department of Real Estate professor Tay Kah Poh added: “In other words, the plan assumes some degree of over-shooting, which is a huge change in thinking from before.”

National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan noted last week that the projection was “aggressive” so that the Government “will not be caught under-providing, as we are experiencing currently” — a stance that Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said on Facebook that he fully agreed with.

Still, Mr Yeoh proposed capping the total population to 6 million in 2030 and 6.5 million by 2050.

He said: “A population of 6.5 million will be very cosmopolitan, (there will be) a lot of foreigners but it will still have significant indigenous components. And it will be relatively wealthy so it might resemble … Switzerland, with significant social cohesion and national identity.”

He added that, should Singapore ever reach a population of 8 million to 9 million, “it would look more like Dubai”. There could be “extreme income inequality, extreme dependence on foreigners and would be extremely crowded and unpleasant”, said Mr Yeoh.

Meanwhile, Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy Senior Fellow Donald Low criticised the lack of scholarship and academic rigour in the White Paper.

Writing on Facebook, Mr Low, a former high-flying civil servant, noted that there “wasn’t even a References section to show what research the writers of the paper had done, what social science theories they relied on, what competing theories/frameworks they looked at”.

Citing Australia’s recent White Paper on Australia in the Asian Century or reports by the British government, which he said are “always complete with references to the social science literature”, Mr Low added: “There was also a surprising lack of rigorous comparison with other countries that have gone through, or are going through, a similar demographic transition.”
 
Last edited:

watchman8

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: The 6.9 Million Figure: Ministers scramble in full force to clarify it's not targ

That makes it even worse. Experts noted that this govt is notoriously poor in managing inflows so past projections have always been exceeded. If they use 8 million as figure, going by their track record, by the time they are able to tote up and tally every inflow, the pop will well bust 8 mil!
You got it wrong. The pap is notoriously good at managing inflow. They even sponsor many trips overseas to convince and attract migrants to consider singapore. The inflow is entirely within their control, down to individual immigrant's application form. In fact a single PR can even be revoked if the old man says so, as Ryan goh found out. Even Obama also cannot unilaterally revoke green card of any individual without solid basis backed by law, but old man can if he deems you a nuisance.

The ICA can stem the approval of work passes today if they want to.
 
Top