Singapore’s Casinos Will ‘Flop’

[Merl Haggard]

This Hongkong Business man is saying openly what most Singaporeons , except the goverment, already knows.


Hang Lung Properties’ Chan Says Singapore’s Casinos Will ‘Flop’
2009-09-10 05:20:36.882 GMT

By Chia-Peck Wong and Bernard Lo
Sept. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Ronnie Chan, chairman of Hang Lung Properties Ltd., Hong Kong’s fifth-biggest developer by market value, said the two casino-resorts in Singapore will fail because they won’t be able to attract high-rollers. Las Vegas Sands Corp., the casino company controlled by
billionaire Sheldon Adelson, and Genting Singapore Plc, a unit of Asia’s biggest listed gambling operator, are building Singapore’s first two casinos.

Chan commented after attending the Bloomberg Leadership
Forum in Hong Kong.

“The big rollers are what make money in casinos, they will never come to Singapore, it’s a family entertainment” location. “You think big-rollers will go to Singapore where they have teeth and fangs coming out sideways? There are too many rules. I was in Sentosa island, I really think that it’s going to be a flop.

“The whole integrated entertainment industry, I’m worried for them. The good thing about Singapore is that if you flop, you’re given a second chance.”

I agree with Ronnie Chan that the two casinos in S'pore are destined to fail.

Just take a look at the bottom-line of Genting's Star Cruise casino operations who has lost US$625.5m as from year 2000 to
the 1st half of 2009.

Star Cruise's casino's operation has met such hefty losses despite not having to pay any gaming tax and no competition too.

Star Cruise is in the market for sale desperately, but cannot find any buyer.


Net P & L of Star Cruise for past 10 years:

(US$)

2009: loss $41.0 million (1H)

2008: loss $100.5 million

2007: loss $200.8 million

2006: loss $156.1 million

2005: profit $17.9 million

2004: loss $11.5 million

2003: loss $124.4 million

2002: profit $50.9 million

2001: loss $16.0 million

2000: loss $44.0 million

2000-2009(1H): net loss US$625.5 million

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Ramseth,

Don't be too sure about that!

There are second or third generations of those multi-millionaire who don't really know what is the value of money because they have never put in any real effort in earning them.

These are the people who will become high roller and you cannot deny that there are such high roller gamblers around, right?

Goh Meng Seng

Test:

1. Go find a multi-millionaire entrepreneur who wants to gamble away his millions of dollars so that he doesn't have to do business anymore.

2. Go find thousand-dollar per month salaried people who wants to get rich quick so that they don't have to work anymore.

My say is, high roller is a fallacy. How often can you depend on a rich person to be an idiot? You're in business because you want to be rich. He's already rich.

 

[Gallego99]

I agree with Ronnie Chan that the two casinos in S'pore are destined to fail.

Just take a look at the bottom-line of Genting's Star Cruise casino operations who has lost US$625.5m as from year 2000 to
the 1st half of 2009.

Star Cruise's casino's operation has met such hefty losses despite not having to pay any gaming tax and no competition too.

Star Cruise is in the market for sale desperately, but cannot find any buyer.


2000-2009(1H): net loss US$625.5 million

A casino on a cruise ship has capacity constraint for one. So I'm not surprise if they are bleeding red ink.

I dun think Singapore is big enuff for 2 casino operators. I expect one to fail and the other would have their operations reduced considerably once the casino novelty is over.

Genting SIN made an early cash call. Buying insurance on their investments I guess.

 

[nickers9]

Why must you all worry? Dont you know who am I? I am the only man made GOD in Singapore. I can make wonders and miracles anywhere in this little kingdom.

If nobodies comes and play, dont worry, I'll asked my Ho Ching to throw in another USD$40 billions dollars from Temasick into these 2 Casinos and made the games start rolling again.

 

[Watchman]

Sin City works not some third rate Knotts Berry Farm !

 

[johnny333]

I dun think Singapore is big enuff for 2 casino operators. I expect one to fail and the other would have their operations reduced considerably once the casino novelty is over.

You undersedtimate the ego & the face thiingy of the familee.

For years & years Chartered Semi was loosing money & yet only recently was it sold to Dubai.

If as predicted the casinos are a flop they'll probably let NTUC run one of the casinos. NTUC is already running their own club, golf course, chalets, supermarket, insurance, .. So why not a casino

 

[Robert Half]

TS who start this thread last year.

RWS & MBS turned out to be a success now

 

[ah_phah]

TS who start this thread last year.

RWS & MBS turned out to be a success now

short term success doesnt guarantee long term sustainability. with all the accelerated hype, the buzz will fizzle out someday, like how genting highlands is now a forgotten site. the crowds dwindle, the stragglers idle, the theme parks under utilized etc.

 

[Robert Half]

short term success doesnt guarantee long term sustainability. with all the accelerated hype, the buzz will fizzle out someday, like how genting highlands is now a forgotten site. the crowds dwindle, the stragglers idle, the theme parks under utilized etc.

Our 2 IRs did actually created jobs anyway

 

[aurvandil]

TS who start this thread last year.

RWS & MBS turned out to be a success now

They did not publish some key details for why they made so much money. My hypothesis is that the reason they were able to do so was because alongside running a casino, they are also running a highly lucrative money lending business. This is in the form of "rolling" credit to big gamblers. This form of profit making is socially very destructive and the social problems many had predicted with the opening of the casinos is likely to significantly exceed expectations.

 

[ah_phah]

Our 2 IRs did actually created jobs anyway

ya, keong siak, pertain, geylang have had plenty of job vacancies for long time too. better still, the skills of the jobs r acquired OJT.

 

[silverfox@]

They did not publish some key details for why they made so much money. My hypothesis is that the reason they were able to do so was because alongside running a casino, they are also running a highly lucrative money lending business. This is in the form of "rolling" credit to big gamblers. This form of profit making is socially very destructive and the social problems many had predicted with the opening of the casinos is likely to significantly exceed expectations.

Which casino in this world do not offer credit to high rollers? The way you are saying it is as though the singapore IRs are the only ones offering credit to high rollers.

When casinos lose money, there will be people who will say, "You see, casinos lose money".
When casinos make money, the very same people will start conjuring up all sorts of reasons to say that the casinos make money because of this and that.

So whatever the outcome also got things to say one.

 

[KuanTi01]

This HK big mouth got any hidden agenda or not? Paid one visit to Sentosa and he thinks he knows everything about Singapore casinos to make such a bold prediction! He doesn't have local knowledge or else he will sing a different tune. He thinks Sheldon and the Lims are either stupid or naive. They would have done their own research. Casinos may flop due to other unforseen reasons but certainly not due to lack of high-rollers in sufficient numbers. Anyway, many high rollers prefer anonymity and generally keep a low profile, at least from kaypohs who think they know everything about casinos just because they've been to a few.

What he doesn't know is that we are the mother of all hubs, including money-laundering! If the casinos flop, government won't look good so it's not going to happen. Appropriate measures will be put in place to ensure it won't happen here.

 

[Cuntamania]

i totally agree with you. 30-40% of the laundered money goes to you know who.

The guy probably doesn't know anything about the Billions of Illegal Indon money park in SG. The Indons will probably come here throw some money at the Casinos and go home tell their government they loss all here. It's an elaborated money laundering service by the SG government.

 

[Cuntamania]

For money laundering!!

Still too early to tell. From the very start the whole idea was making $$ from gambling. The whole intergrated resort idea was just a smoke screen to make it seem that Govt has not totally abandoned it's morality stand.

Besides, for all we know the gambling industry may just be a smoke screen to clean up dirty $$.

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

I think the Indonesian whales will come; and the slots are also known for cleaning out people's pockets.

Anyway if do badly just lower local fee lor. Then the locals will come and give their money to the MIW again.

INDON whales are all taking cover - long time already: dun see them in Oz, Macau, Vegas..... as they are scared to be spotted by Anti Corruption Dept who are known to be spying in these hot spots. Kena tangkap must pay bribes thru the nose!!!

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

You undersedtimate the ego & the face thiingy of the familee.

For years & years Chartered Semi was loosing money & yet only recently was it sold to Dubai.

If as predicted the casinos are a flop they'll probably let NTUC run one of the casinos. NTUC is already running their own club, golf course, chalets, supermarket, insurance, .. So why not a casino

Thot Anti U See has an outfit in Shenton full of jackpot machines...... how about Civil Service Club doing good biz with its jackpot machines??

BTW Chartered Semi earned Whore Jinx "Engineer of the Year" award.......lots of true blue engineers do not recognise her as an engineer at all.

 

[johnny333]

Thot Anti U See has an outfit in Shenton full of jackpot machines...... how about Civil Service Club doing good biz with its jackpot machines??

BTW Chartered Semi earned Whore Jinx "Engineer of the Year" award.......lots of true blue engineers do not recognise her as an engineer at all.

Civil service can afford to gamble as they are making good money

However I don't think those uncles & aunties hanging around the NTUC club at AMK Central(top floor) can afford the losses.

I forgot that madam Ho was an engineer It's obvious that she is overpaid for whatever she is doing at Temasek. What's the point of giving her an engineering awards to her If she was not married to LHL she would probably be unemployed or a nameless scholar in the system

 

[manokie]

Civil service can afford to gamble as they are making good money

However I don't think those uncles & aunties hanging around the NTUC club at AMK Central(top floor) can afford the losses.

I forgot that madam Ho was an engineer It's obvious that she is overpaid for whatever she is doing at Temasek. What's the point of giving her an engineering awards to her If she was not married to LHL she would probably be unemployed or a nameless scholar in the system

Well

We have a meritocratic system!

The best get the job!

They also have the moral authority to lead the other sinkies!

 

[aurvandil]

Which casino in this world do not offer credit to high rollers? The way you are saying it is as though the singapore IRs are the only ones offering credit to high rollers.

Based on our favourite gambling thread, the casinos are offering rolling credit to gamblers for as low as $50,000. To make it affordable, they also do not set a time limit to "roll" to earn the comission. Along with the annual $2k levy, this is being marketed as an affordable "package" to middle income Singaporeans.

Singapore casinos are of course not the only casinos to offer "rolling" credit. I think what caught many analysts by surprise is just how sucessful and popular their programs have been. There are now no longer any concerns about the financial viability of the casinos.

The use of "rolling" credit to earn record profits however is likely to cause record social problems in Singapore. CRA is under MHA. When the social problems surface, Minister Wong Kan Seng will have to be held accountable and pay the political price.