• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Muslim ‘counterterrorism expert’ falsely claims that hadith about Muslims killing Jews applies only to ‘last day’

duluxe

Alfrescian
Loyal
https://combatantisemitism.org/inte...ration-key-to-halting-spread-of-antisemitism/




Noor Dahri is the executive director of the London-based Islamic Theology of Counter Terrorism (ITCT) think tank. Recently, Dahri, who was born and raised in Pakistan, took to Twitter to speak out against a controversial “hadith” — or “saying of the Prophet” — that has long been a source of Muslim enmity toward Jews.


Dahri is currently putting together a educational seminar on antisemitism that can be broadcast to experts and students at online events.

The Combat Antisemitism Movement (CAM) invited Noor for a conversation about the specific hadith he mentioned in his tweet, as well as the broader issue of Jew-hatred in the Muslim world.

A transcript of the discussion, edited for brevity and clarity, follows:

To start, tell us about the background of the hadith you tweeted about recently and how it has been used over the course of history.

There are a few things to mention about the hadith which I will do, but I will note it requires a very deep understanding and is a long debatable topic, and I’m not a hadith scholar. There are moderate Muslim scholars and experts, such as Sheikh Usama Hasan and Harris Rafiq, who can address it more wisely and in greater depth.

There is a huge chapter of “Last Day” predictions in the hadith books (“sayings of the Prophet”). Some scholars have classified this particular hadith as “hasan,” which means “good” (“good” is used to describe a hadith whose authenticity is not as well-established as that of a sahih, or “authentic,” hadith, but is sufficient to serve as supporting evidence), while other scholars have classified it as “da’if,” or “weak.”

So as I said, it is complicated to fully understand the precise background of this hadith.

And if we were to accept this hadith is “sahih,” as according to the narrations of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, then we should also believe it is meant for the “Day of Judgement,” and Muslims cannot use it in the current day to create a hateful atmosphere for any political or religious reasons.

There are many “Last Day” ahadith (plural of hadith) relevant to corruption of Muslims in Islamic states, and if we started applying these ahadith to contemporary times, there would be bloodshed all over the Islamic world in fighting between Muslims, just as there is ongoing strife between Shi’as and Sunnis in many countries over religious and jurisprudence differences.

Is this hadith commonly taught across the Muslim world? How accurately does it reflect Islamic theology on the issue of relations with Jews?

We all know that by spreading this hadith without providing its full context, Muslim scholars have created intense hatred of Jewish communities worldwide. The surprising thing is this that early Muslims, such as companions of the Prophet Muhammad and their descendants, did not use this hadith to incite against Jews. History shows that Jews flourished in the early Islamic era and Islam allowed Jews to remain in Muslim lands, where Jews were treated well and there was fruitful coexistence. Since then, however, Islam has been politicized, and Muslim scholars started using such ahadith against the Jews and Hindus, which has undermined the peaceful nature of Islam.

Are there Islamic governments or institutions that have taken steps to mitigate the impact of this Hadith on Muslim thinking?

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia under the leadership of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has banned many Islamic literatures and texts that generated hate and extremism toward other religions and communities, and such types of sermons are also not permitted in the United Arab Emirates.

What can Western governments do to prevent this hadith from inciting hatred of Jews among Muslim populations in their countries?

Western governments should stop appeasing Muslims and devise and enforce strict rules where applicable to minimize extremism and stem hatred of other religious communities. Whenever I attend the Friday congregation prayer at mosque, I am sickened by listening to the hadith that “Jews have betrayed the Prophet of Islam,” and it really frustrates me when that they mention the hadith out of context — they mention as is, and full stop. They deliberately leave a gap for Muslims to succumb to hate by thinking that Jews were the enemies of the Prophet Muhammad and Islam….

To conclude, let me say that Islamic antisemitism can only be countered successfully with the help of moderate Muslim scholars and experts who know how to address the ideology effectively and offer solutions. Jewish organizations should reach out to such scholars and experts to work together to combat antisemitism. Cooperation with Muslims is vital if Jews want to halt the rapid growth of this hateful ideology in the Western world.
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
There are a few things to mention about the hadith which I will do, but I will note it requires a very deep understanding and is a long debatable topic, and I’m not a hadith scholar.

Why is there a need for a hadith scholar? According to moslems, their 'final revelation' is the quran, not the compiled fairy tales of mahomet called the hadiths.
 

duluxe

Alfrescian
Loyal
Why is there a need for a hadith scholar? According to moslems, their 'final revelation' is the quran, not the compiled fairy tales of mahomet called the hadiths.

Hadiths needed to perfect the koran texts. Islam is a perfected religion.
 

Loofydralb

Alfrescian
Loyal
Why is there a need for a hadith scholar? According to moslems, their 'final revelation' is the quran, not the compiled fairy tales of mahomet called the hadiths.
You should include the bible as a book of pornography. Want me to show you examples of it so that you understand that it is not God's words in there but dirty men with selfish agendas, until today keep on changing the words?
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
You should include the bible as a book of pornography. Want me to show you examples of it so that you understand that it is not God's words in there but dirty men with selfish agendas,

Sounds very much like your moslem scriptures like the qurans, hadiths and sunnahs. Here's an example of how dirty minded your fake prophet mahomet was, with his own selfish agendas.

Narrated Jabir bin `Abdullah:

When I got married, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'

- Sahih al-Bukhari 5080 Book 67, Hadith 18

until today keep on changing the words?

Your so-called qurans today have been changing the words at least till 1924, before it was standardized for the very first time. Here's what your own moslem scholar said about the quran that you read today.

“Many manuscripts of the Quran written throughout Muslim history, when compared to one another, reveal ample differences, scribal errors, and obvious variants. Simply stated, what many call the unchanged, inerrant copy of the Quran is actually a twentieth century project. Not surprisingly, the editorial board responsible for the 1924 project stated in the final copy that the project was a result of significant concerns among Muslims regarding “errors” in copies previously used in Egypt’s local schools. Nonetheless, most Muslims do not recognize this history and consider the 1924 Royal Cairo Edition of the Quran textus receptus (received text) that existed throughout Islamic history since Uthman. This copy has become the official Quran. Still, there is a deeper problem with the 1924 Cairo edition: this copy was achieved not through a critical assessment of the many available readings of the Quran but rather through the selection of one–and only one–particular variant, which was then advanced as authoritative. While this is common knowledge among scholars, it is not so among the majority of Muslims.”

(Ayman S. Ibrahim, A Concise Guide to the Quran [BakerAcademic, Grand Rapids, MI 2020], Part 1: The History of the Text of the Quran, 13. What Do We Know about the 1924 Royal Cairo Edition of the Quran?, pp. 47-50)
 

duluxe

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sounds very much like your moslem scriptures like the qurans, hadiths and sunnahs. Here's an example of how dirty minded your fake prophet mahomet was, with his own selfish agendas.

Narrated Jabir bin `Abdullah:

When I got married, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'

- Sahih al-Bukhari 5080 Book 67, Hadith 18



Your so-called qurans today have been changing the words at least till 1924, before it was standardized for the very first time. Here's what your own moslem scholar said about the quran that you read today.

“Many manuscripts of the Quran written throughout Muslim history, when compared to one another, reveal ample differences, scribal errors, and obvious variants. Simply stated, what many call the unchanged, inerrant copy of the Quran is actually a twentieth century project. Not surprisingly, the editorial board responsible for the 1924 project stated in the final copy that the project was a result of significant concerns among Muslims regarding “errors” in copies previously used in Egypt’s local schools. Nonetheless, most Muslims do not recognize this history and consider the 1924 Royal Cairo Edition of the Quran textus receptus (received text) that existed throughout Islamic history since Uthman. This copy has become the official Quran. Still, there is a deeper problem with the 1924 Cairo edition: this copy was achieved not through a critical assessment of the many available readings of the Quran but rather through the selection of one–and only one–particular variant, which was then advanced as authoritative. While this is common knowledge among scholars, it is not so among the majority of Muslims.”

(Ayman S. Ibrahim, A Concise Guide to the Quran [BakerAcademic, Grand Rapids, MI 2020], Part 1: The History of the Text of the Quran, 13. What Do We Know about the 1924 Royal Cairo Edition of the Quran?, pp. 47-50)

Fake news by anti-islam zionists and enemies of islam lah. The koran is the direct revelation from allah (the moon god) to Prophet Muhammed and is uncorrupted for 1400 years. Islam is perfected.
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Fake news by anti-islam zionists and enemies of islam lah. The koran is the direct revelation from allah (the moon god) to Prophet Muhammed and is uncorrupted for 1400 years. Islam is perfected.

moslem make up their religion as they go along. They even dumped loads of different qurans into the Nile in 1924 after they standardized their quran. The so-called 'uncorrupted' quran is the 1924 version standardized in Egypt.
 

duluxe

Alfrescian
Loyal
moslem make up their religion as they go along. They even dumped loads of different qurans into the Nile in 1924 after they standardized their quran. The so-called 'uncorrupted' quran is the 1924 version standardized in Egypt.

Towkay, suggest you use more peaceful words. muslims 'perfecting' their religion as they go along and attained 100% perfection in 1924.
 

mudhatter

Alfrescian
Loyal
thats why these subhuman chink and ah nehs need to be beaten up brutally having their skulls smashed and thrown in to the selat melaka . if they can swim back ot their homelands, so be it.

btw, most crimnal gangs in malaysia are chinks and ah nehs


Bukit Aman's CID director Datuk Hadi Ho Abdullah pointed out that about 70% of gang members in the country are Indians, with Chinese and Malays making up the remaining 25% and 4.77% respectively. "There are more and more rival gang factions in the country, especially the Indians, of which 04, 08, 18, 21 and 36 are the more prominent ones."
 

mudhatter

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sounds very much like your moslem scriptures like the qurans, hadiths and sunnahs. Here's an example of how dirty minded your fake prophet mahomet was, with his own selfish agendas.

So you finally admitted your religion is fake?

and filled with fake ideas. :roflmao:

like three deities
:roflmao:

Your so-called qurans today have been changing the words at least till 1924, before it was standardized for the very first time. Here's what your own moslem scholar said about the quran that you read today.


(Ayman S. Ibrahim, A Concise Guide to the Quran [BakerAcademic, Grand Rapids, MI 2020], Part 1: The History of the Text of the Quran, 13. What Do We Know about the 1924 Royal Cairo Edition of the Quran?, pp. 47-50)


this is fabrication as proven by this fabrication getting published only in 2020

if there were multiple versions of the quran, they should have been able to show these differences and different versions over the last 1400 years but as usual KAFIR dogs who are obvious LIARS end up LYING by fabricating statements and publishing them as "books".

:roflmao:

a numskull cowboy country with no history talent civilization intelligence brains built on red indian lands can't even point to their intellectuals of note LOL and any culture or history.

their language is also English.

:roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao::roflmao:


a country that has not got even developed its own language posing as an intellectual one.

the comedy.

the gall of this moron imbecilic cowboy nation to fabricate facts about the true religion once their false hood has been debunked.

btw why they keep quite on f16 f22 downed last night and all the mega giga terra hype about stealthy f22 shattered to bits.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:


here's how to deal with these stupid kafir LYING imbecile nincompoops

since LYING is their only resort and they can't find any evidence to support their UTTER LIES.


 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
thats why these subhuman chink and ah nehs need to be beaten up brutally having their skulls smashed and thrown in to the selat melaka . if they can swim back ot their homelands, so be it.

that's why moslem pigs like you deserve to burn in hell with mahomet, your fake arabic prophet. No islamic burial for you too. Cremation and then mix your ash with pig feed.

if there were multiple versions of the quran, they should have been able to show these differences and different versions over the last 1400 years but as usual KAFIR dogs who are obvious LIARS end up LYING by fabricating statements and publishing them as "books".

If the moslem quran never changed, moslems should be able to produce the source materials that moslem scribes recorded the ramblings of mahomet. No such source material can be found. There's also no surviving complete qurans dating back to the period of uthman.

You're just in denial that the quran you have at home is barely 100 years old after standardization in Egypt in 1924.
 

mudhatter

Alfrescian
Loyal
that's why moslem pigs like you deserve to burn in hell with mahomet, your fake arabic prophet. No islamic burial for you too. Cremation and then mix your ash with pig feed.

Pigs describe kafir faggot chink charlatans like you since you are known for your affinity towards pigs. How come your charlatan false triple-god religion, thus committing shirk, with fake fabricated scripture and not a single scripture found intact - even the language is not kept intact with this false utterly shirk infested religion - also infamous for your faggot priests penetrating your tender arse at a tender age, teaches you to judge who will go to hell or not? That in itself should qualify you for apostasy if yours were a true religion. How could it be, though, considering yours is one that promotes penetrating your arse at a tender age?



If the moslem quran never changed, moslems should be able to produce the source materials that moslem scribes recorded the ramblings of mahomet. No such source material can be found. There's also no surviving complete qurans dating back to the period of uthman.

Quran is the only true unchanged word of God revealed to the greatest man ever and the greatest human being ever, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

You are the ones claiming the Quran has been corrupted, so provide proof. Where is the proof? Where are these different versions of the Quran? Of course you can't because you have been lying without realizing that your lies are exposed easily by anyone with more than two digit IQ and who has not taken a liking to taking it up the arse like you or your false triple-gods would order you to do.


You're just in denial that the quran you have at home is barely 100 years old after standardization in Egypt in 1924.

You are the ones in denial. Where is the proof of your false allegations? If you can not provide any proof of these false allegations, like all other charlatan fraudster kafir christian jewish and other kafir rats, you should be publicly beheaded and made an example of.

You can not get away with fabricating statements about the only book that remains unchanged and unaltered, more than 1400 years afterwards.


IF anyone dares to challenge it has been altered, he/she should be courageous enough to put his neck on the line.

Failing to provide evidence/proof of this (obviously false) allegation would result in your beheading.

Straightforward solution.

Ask your ang moh faggot priests and pastors who have taken a keen liking to your tender arse at your tender age to dare put their necks on the line and present evidence, if they dare, in free, fair, open, international venues and with unbiased adjudicators in place who have not, and can not, be influenced by either side before or after the hosting of this event is completed.

Put you fags' necks on the line if you dare. You should have no issues doing it if you claim to have evidence for your (obvously false) allegations.
 

syed putra

Alfrescian
Loyal
moslem make up their religion as they go along. They even dumped loads of different qurans into the Nile in 1924 after they standardized their quran. The so-called 'uncorrupted' quran is the 1924 version standardized in Egypt.
cannot be as one old copy of koran , the birminghan text exist snd was said to corroborate wiith current versions.
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
. How come your charlatan false triple-god religion, thus committing shirk, with fake fabricated scripture and not a single scripture found intact - even the language is not kept intact with this false utterly shirk infested religion

For the Bible, the original manuscripts are still around. In contrast, moslem caliph uthman burned all the source manuscripts for islam. Till today, there isn't any source manuscripts nor intact qurans from uthman's time, where the first quran was compiled. moslems have zero historical evidence to show that their quran has been unchanged. Zero!

You are the ones in denial. Where is the proof of your false allegations? If you can not provide any proof of these false allegations, like all other charlatan fraudster kafir christian jewish and other kafir rats, you should be publicly beheaded and made an example of.

You are in denial. There is ample proof of the current moslem quran having only a 100 year history, compiled in 1924 in Egypt. A simple Google search "quran standardization 1924 egypt" would turn up the proof that you need.

Here's one link that popped up. It's not even on the top 3 choices in the Google search.

Muslims are unaware that the Qur’an we have today (the Hafs text) was created in 1924 by a committee, led by Muhammad b. ‘Ali al-Husayni al-Haddad, in Cairo, Egypt, in order to standardize high-school tests!

They chose the Qira’at compilation written by a student named Hafs who died in 796 AD,
a full 144 years after the Qur’an was supposedly created by the Caliph Uthman.

This was then adopted by the Egyptian government in 1936 as their official text (known as the ‘Faruq Edition’) , which was then canonized worldwide in 1985 by the Ibn Saud family in Saudi Arabia as the official text (known as the ‘Fahd Edition’), a mere 33 years ago

Rather than critically compile a text derived from the earliest manuscript evidence available, they simply chose one student’s (Hafs) compilation, regardless of whether it matched those earliest manuscripts.


http://www.ysljdj.com/tc-21-32/tc-21-32-13.html

IF anyone dares to challenge it has been altered, he/she should be courageous enough to put his neck on the line.

Failing to provide evidence/proof of this (obviously false) allegation would result in your beheading.

moslems threatening to kill others for criticizing their qurans, but moslems have no qualms making up lies to insult other religions.

That's a key reason why the mohammedan religion is so fucked up.
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
And what is that manuscript called?

Slowly go read it yourself. Here's some links regarding Bible manuscripts. Of course you're still going to deny them even if God himself put them before you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript

https://hc.edu/museums/dunham-bible-museum/tour-of-the-museum/past-exhibits/biblical-manuscripts

You know why it doesn't exist?
Because after going to the toilet, you wipe instead of wash.

That's pretty much why there are zero quranic source manuscripts. moslems used the quran paper to wipe their own arses.
 

Loofydralb

Alfrescian
Loyal
Slowly go read it yourself. Here's some links regarding Bible manuscripts. Of course you're still going to deny them even if God himself put them before you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript

https://hc.edu/museums/dunham-bible-museum/tour-of-the-museum/past-exhibits/biblical-manuscripts



That's pretty much why there are zero quranic source manuscripts. moslems used the quran paper to wipe their own arses.
You must be kidding.
You don't even know the difference between the tanakh and old testament.
 
Top