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listen, New flats affordable for most buyers, says Mah Boh Tan

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Alfrescian
Loyal
New flats affordable for most buyers, says Mah
By Fiona Chan, ASSISTANT MONEY EDITOR & Robin Chan

ST_IMAGES_P1BLURBS25-JZB.jpg


MOST buyers of new flats need to fork out little or no cash to pay for their homes.

This is the result of the Government's efforts to keep housing affordable for young couples, National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan said yesterday.

In his latest rebuttal to the Workers' Party's (WP) proposals on lowering new flat prices, Mr Mah argued that the Government has kept housing costs within the means of most first-time buyers.

Eight in 10 couples who bought new flats last year used only a quarter or less of their salaries to service their home loans, which means their Central Provident Fund (CPF) contributions can cover almost all their monthly mortgage payments, Mr Mah said.

Speaking at a press conference at Tampines East Community Club, he illustrated how a young couple can buy a new flat with almost no cash required.

A couple below the age of 30 needs to pay only a 5 per cent down payment for a new flat. This can come out of their CPF savings.

So a couple earning a combined $4,000 a month can work for half a year and buy a new four-room HDB flat with no cash upfront, said Mr Mah.

If they are eligible for housing grants, they can also use those for the deposit.

As for the monthly mortgage payments, these would require less than $50 in cash, he added.

'With all this in place, you would get a flat with zero deposit. Now how many housing ministers in the world can say what I've just said?'

On top of that, a new HDB flat is not 'any ordinary, low-quality flat', but 'a good-quality flat, a flat in a good environment', added Mr Mah.

'Can the WP point out any other major city in the world where home ownership is so readily within reach for the majority of its young people?'

Mr Mah, representing the People's Action Party, has crossed swords with the WP at least three times since the latter unveiled its manifesto on April 9.

Among other things, the WP called for new flat prices to be lowered by reducing the price of land and rethinking the asset enhancement policies of the last 20 years.

But owning a home and seeing it grow in value as an asset is a key pillar of the public housing system, Mr Mah countered yesterday.

'My answer to them is, if homes are not an asset, why don't we just rent homes to people?' he said. 'If that's the proposal, then say so.'

Mr Mah also dismissed another suggestion, surfaced by the National Solidarity Party, that permanent residents (PRs) should have a longer minimum occupation period for HDB flats than the five-year norm for Singaporeans.

'The deck is pretty much stacked in favour of Singaporeans when it comes to buying flats,' he said.

PRs are not eligible for HDB grants or loans, cannot buy new flats direct from the HDB, and make up only a small proportion of resale flat buyers, he said.

'I think targeting the PRs isn't going to make that much difference as far as making flats affordable to first-timers,' Mr Mah added.

He also reiterated that the WP's plans to reduce the prices of new flats are 'ill-conceived and even dangerous', and run the risk of crashing the property market.

Mr Mah disagreed with WP chief Low Thia Khiang's assessment that lower new flat prices would have little impact on resale flat values. Mr Low had made this argument last week, saying that because new flats are relatively few in number and cannot be resold immediately, they will not affect the broader resale market.

But the different market segments are interlinked, Mr Mah argued, and any action in one segment will have implications for the other. This is especially so as half of the current buyers of resale flats qualify to buy new flats, he said.

In addition, Mr Mah called Mr Low 'mischievous' for alleging last week that the Government itself has been raiding the reserves by, for instance, giving out money under the Grow and Share package during this year's Budget.

'The 2011 Budget, including the Grow and Share package, was completely funded from current reserves,' Mr Mah said.

He added that the Government has never drawn on past reserves for its budget spending, except in the 2009 economic downturn, when it withdrew $4 billion to save jobs and revive the economy. The Government repaid the funds this year.

Still, despite the back-and-forth with the WP over the affordability of new HDB flats, Mr Mah believes housing will not be a make-or-break issue in the May 7 General Election.

'There are so many other issues,' he told reporters. 'I think the most important issue really is... who can form the government that can look after Singapore and secure Singapore's future.'
 

ChaoPappyPoodle

Alfrescian
Loyal
KNN this Mahbok Tan is quite dumb! Where got such thing as current reserves? Surplus from the budget is sent to the Reserves, if this year's budget is yet to be spent then how can the money be sent to the reserves?

Mahbok Tan also wants Singaporeans to spend all their CPF funds to pay for their HDB. This man is a true hero for Singaporeans.

Mahbok Tan says that PAPpies neber spend Reserves but we know that at lest $50 billion was lost by Temasek and GIC just a few years ago.

Mahbok Tan say PAPpies neber raid REserves but Temasek sold all our power plants which is worse than spending the equivalent sum from the Reserves.

Mahbok Tan wants Singaporeans to not enjoy the use of the Reserves so that is why the PAPpies spend it to save banks in other countries and to lose money in investing.

Mahbok Tan policy for housing is to use Singaporeans who purchase HDB homes as suckers who send their money to the Reserves. Without these HDB suckers, the Reserves will not be so high and MBT does not like this at all.
 

suteerak1099

Alfrescian
Loyal
if a couple can easily afford downpayment & fully pay up for their home within a span of 5yrs (interest bearing), then yes, it is affordable. more importantly, never having to consider liquidating assets for retirement.

however, if a couple needs to slog at least 5yrs before affording the downpayment, and taking up to 30yrs to pay up for their home with interest bearing, and a possibility of having to refinance towards the end of the term... its called daylight robbery!
 

ChaoPappyPoodle

Alfrescian
Loyal
You can add the lack of job security and lower wages due to the influx of FTs and you can see easily that the average Singaporean that purchases a HDB home is walking on a very tight rope.

All that needs to happen to either the wife or husband is for one of them to lose their job or fall ill for an extended period of time and their home will very likely be forfeited should they be unable to continue making their mortgage payments.
 

leoman

Alfrescian
Loyal
everbodies know ..... (oop, onllee d v rich n elites dont)

when u BUY (got ur flat), ......... 1ST THING (chk ur cpf bal) ........ ALL WILL B SAPU by hdb
d rest of 20~30 yr ..... pay thru' ur nose ..... by hook or by crook

dats y , they say HDB IS AFFORDABLE .... i.e: IF ur cpf is loaded (@ lest 30% of value of new flat)



*** a wise oldfart last time say ...... THERE SHLD B NO RETIREMENT 4 SINKAPOLIANS ***

he's 2 wise 2 know ....... U CANNOT PAY UP UR HDB FLAT .......if u retired !!
 

SIFU

Alfrescian
Loyal
MBT said this : A couple below the age of 30 needs to pay only a 5 per cent down payment for a new flat. This can come out of their CPF savings.

So a couple earning a combined $4,000 a month can work for half a year and buy a new four-room HDB flat with no cash upfront, said Mr Mah.

it doesn't add up correct. earn 4k x 6 months = 24k. 24k will give u cpf of $8640 (24k X 36% for employer + employee cpf).

$8640 cpf is the total. some will need to go into medisave n special. total nett into OA is $5040 for the 6 months. 4 room hdb now cost say $250k. 5% deposit is $12500. $5040 how to pay $12500 deposit?? MBT anyhow hamtum the figures is it?

HDB flats
If you are taking a housing loan from HDB or if you are not taking any loan, you have to pay 10% of the purchase price of the flat as downpayment. You can use your CPF savings to make the downpayment. If your CPF savings are not enough, you will have to pay the balance in cash.

from the hdb website, u need to pay 10% deposit, not 5% somemore. also if u earn 4k per mth, buy a 250k flat (loan 95%) and repayment period for 30 year, your monthly repayment is $950; your cpf mthly contribution of $850 to OA is not sufficient to cover it.
 

ChaoPappyPoodle

Alfrescian
Loyal
SIFU, do not be distracted by making such calculations. This is MBT's way of diffusing the bigger issues. The job ahead is simple -
1) HDB is being used to gather funds for the Reserves
2) HDB pricing policy deletes CPF funds
3) HDB costs of building a flat as well as the cost of land is a secret
4) HDB has failed to react to the influx of FTs to ensure that sufficient houses are built in the past and especially when the FTs started coming
5) It is false that the lower income do not pay taxes as any fees paid to the HDB over and beyond the cost of building the flat and the cost of the land go directly into the Reserves and hence are intrinsically a tax.

Just humtum MBT and HDB and the PAP for allowing these policies to be implemented for more than two decades.

Dont waste time calculating this and that. MBT wants you to do that so that you miss the bigger picture.
 

streetsmart73

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
hi there


1. what's an excellent fart from horsey!
2. who's the boss and who's the paying servant?
3. blahs, blahs and more blahs!
4. listening to noise, my foot.
5. sheep must have failed psle maths too.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
MBT said this : A couple below the age of 30 needs to pay only a 5 per cent down payment for a new flat. This can come out of their CPF savings.

So a couple earning a combined $4,000 a month can work for half a year and buy a new four-room HDB flat with no cash upfront, said Mr Mah.

it doesn't add up correct. earn 4k x 6 months = 24k. 24k will give u cpf of $8640 (24k X 36% for employer + employee cpf).

$8640 cpf is the total. some will need to go into medisave n special. total nett into OA is $5040 for the 6 months. 4 room hdb now cost say $250k. 5% deposit is $12500. $5040 how to pay $12500 deposit?? MBT anyhow hamtum the figures is it?

HDB flats
If you are taking a housing loan from HDB or if you are not taking any loan, you have to pay 10% of the purchase price of the flat as downpayment. You can use your CPF savings to make the downpayment. If your CPF savings are not enough, you will have to pay the balance in cash.

from the hdb website, u need to pay 10% deposit, not 5% somemore. also if u earn 4k per mth, buy a 250k flat (loan 95%) and repayment period for 30 year, your monthly repayment is $950; your cpf mthly contribution of $850 to OA is not sufficient to cover it.

Yeah, I also work out the numbers already and that does not compute. MBT talks big, why donch he break down the figures for everyone to see.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
KNN this Mahbok Tan is quite dumb! Where got such thing as current reserves? Surplus from the budget is sent to the Reserves, if this year's budget is yet to be spent then how can the money be sent to the reserves?

Mahbok Tan also wants Singaporeans to spend all their CPF funds to pay for their HDB. This man is a true hero for Singaporeans.

Mahbok Tan says that PAPpies neber spend Reserves but we know that at lest $50 billion was lost by Temasek and GIC just a few years ago.

Mahbok Tan say PAPpies neber raid REserves but Temasek sold all our power plants which is worse than spending the equivalent sum from the Reserves.

Mahbok Tan wants Singaporeans to not enjoy the use of the Reserves so that is why the PAPpies spend it to save banks in other countries and to lose money in investing.

Mahbok Tan policy for housing is to use Singaporeans who purchase HDB homes as suckers who send their money to the Reserves. Without these HDB suckers, the Reserves will not be so high and MBT does not like this at all.
.

First questions first. WP should ask MBT exactly how much is in the national reserves. Than people can make up their minds whether there is enough to be used for this purpose. I bet you MBT don't even know how much there is, but can talk cock here.

Also, MBT should also explain why his HDB was losing hundreds $ millions every year for the last few years, was he not dipping into the reserves to cover these loses than?
 

depeche

Alfrescian
Loyal
At the end of the day, it is still public housing with a 99 years leasehold? So what's the big deal about home ownership???
Furthermore, can the flat last for 99 years? Mid way through you gonna moved and will be asking to start another loan with the new flats...never ending cycle! Full of bullshit...Just imagine later while the China economy is in power and there's no more ah tiong to buy the resale flats then it's gonna be a negative asset and your CPF is depleted...By then, MBT is happily retiring in OZ enjoying his wine and unlimited pension and dollars...LOL!
 

ivebert

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yeah, I also work out the numbers already and that does not compute. MBT talks big, why donch he break down the figures for everyone to see.

Because it is too complicated

He is actually doing the peasants a favor by generalizing things

If not, the peasants will be smoked by the figures
 

SIFU

Alfrescian
Loyal
Because it is too complicated

He is actually doing the peasants a favor by generalizing things

If not, the peasants will be smoked by the figures

iverbert doggie,

why dun u just say MBT's comment is taken out of context. seems like this is their favorite excuse when they are caught saying the wrong thing.

frankly based on 4k pay needing about 2 years to have enough for the 10% deposit is not that bad. just mbt need to lie to make himself look good and say only need work 6 months for the deposit. :eek:
 

sense

Alfrescian
Loyal
MBT said this : A couple below the age of 30 needs to pay only a 5 per cent down payment for a new flat. This can come out of their CPF savings.

So a couple earning a combined $4,000 a month can work for half a year and buy a new four-room HDB flat with no cash upfront, said Mr Mah.

it doesn't add up correct. earn 4k x 6 months = 24k. 24k will give u cpf of $8640 (24k X 36% for employer + employee cpf).

$8640 cpf is the total. some will need to go into medisave n special. total nett into OA is $5040 for the 6 months. 4 room hdb now cost say $250k. 5% deposit is $12500. $5040 how to pay $12500 deposit?? MBT anyhow hamtum the figures is it?

HDB flats
If you are taking a housing loan from HDB or if you are not taking any loan, you have to pay 10% of the purchase price of the flat as downpayment. You can use your CPF savings to make the downpayment. If your CPF savings are not enough, you will have to pay the balance in cash.

from the hdb website, u need to pay 10% deposit, not 5% somemore. also if u earn 4k per mth, buy a 250k flat (loan 95%) and repayment period for 30 year, your monthly repayment is $950; your cpf mthly contribution of $850 to OA is not sufficient to cover it.

Your calculation is sensible. It's always important to use facts & credible computation to talk to the Proposition. Hope that LTK will consider using the above calculation as a basis for salvo back to MBT - MBT seems to be losing it...
 

amazone

New Member
Your calculation is sensible. It's always important to use facts & credible computation to talk to the Proposition. Hope that LTK will consider using the above calculation as a basis for salvo back to MBT - MBT seems to be losing it...

i think MBT meant by there's a grant of 10k for couple earning less then 5k. But remember is must be returned after u sell your flat.
 

LeMans2011

Alfrescian
Loyal
Looking at the comments on yahoo... i think MBT is in danger of getting kicked out.
The sentiments on the ground is 100% against he and his nonsense.
 

LeMans2011

Alfrescian
Loyal
SIFU, do not be distracted by making such calculations. This is MBT's way of diffusing the bigger issues. The job ahead is simple -
1) HDB is being used to gather funds for the Reserves
2) HDB pricing policy deletes CPF funds
3) HDB costs of building a flat as well as the cost of land is a secret
4) HDB has failed to react to the influx of FTs to ensure that sufficient houses are built in the past and especially when the FTs started coming
5) It is false that the lower income do not pay taxes as any fees paid to the HDB over and beyond the cost of building the flat and the cost of the land go directly into the Reserves and hence are intrinsically a tax.

Just humtum MBT and HDB and the PAP for allowing these policies to be implemented for more than two decades.

Dont waste time calculating this and that. MBT wants you to do that so that you miss the bigger picture.

You are so right. PAP loves to divert attention to lead arguments into corners.
Just argue on the bigger picture and you would not go wrong.
 

Bigfuck

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
My old man's life time nominal income and mine will not be too different. But he bought his flat at 30K while I buy mine at 300K. You factor in inflation in the past 40 years, you tell me what MP Mah is smoking.
 

LeMans2011

Alfrescian
Loyal
if a couple can easily afford downpayment & fully pay up for their home within a span of 5yrs (interest bearing), then yes, it is affordable. more importantly, never having to consider liquidating assets for retirement.

however, if a couple needs to slog at least 5yrs before affording the downpayment, and taking up to 30yrs to pay up for their home with interest bearing, and a possibility of having to refinance towards the end of the term... its called daylight robbery!

You are so right too.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out HDB is no longer serving the purpose it was created to serve. Whoever that conceived HDB would jump up from his grave and give MBT a tight slap !
 
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