HDB Mortgage SLAVES

[theDoors]

Fwah...

Now the bar for Sammy boy forum kenna raised. Must have numbers and calculations to support?

 

[Glaringly]

Fwah...

Now the bar for Sammy boy forum kenna raised. Must have numbers and calculations to support?

I am only disputing the wide gap of D having $2m and C have only $300k. Because this has lots of implication and send a wrong signal out to people. That investing the most expensive asset is a sure winner.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

...
Unfortunately we will never know how much profit HDB makes, or the actual cost of building or construction is secret and is never going to be revealed to us. My guess is that the average cost of a typical HDB flat less than 90 sq m in size (does not depend on location or floor level) is below S$30K, assuming that the land has to be purchased at market price (actually most of the time it is free to the HDB, since the land has been acquired free, or at a very low cost by the gahmen and then transferred to HDB). A quick way to determine the construction cost for a typical HDB flat is to divide the awarded tender cost of a development by the number of units built. Therefore, I wonder if anyone has this "inside" info?

Anything that HDB sells (or leases) to the peasants above that price is profit to them.
However, we will never really know the truth since all the details are secret and hidden from us by either creative accounting or other means.

Why do Singaporeans allow a group of people like the PAP to hide and hoodwink their entire space in this world?

I think it is disgusting and no different from even animals bred for the dinner table to live such a pathetic life.

The PAP is supposed to bring a comfortable life for you not to hide facts and figures and pay themselves obscene salaries on a monthly basis that has no comparison any where else on earth.

Vote the PAPies out and all the truth will be known. Life will be better and our standard of living will improve. There may even be a few people thrown into jails for seditious acts against the state. How great it is then for the people of Singapore to get control back of the country.'

Vote the morally bankrupt PAPies out of power and you can then look at yourself in the mirror with some pride and so will your children.

 

[theDoors]

I am only disputing the wide gap of D having $2m and C have only $300k. Because this has lots of implication and send a wrong signal out to people. That investing the most expensive asset is a sure winner.

Start another thread call wealth creation. We can go into details there.

I already feel bad for hijacking Goh Meng Seng thread to expound on the HDB mortgage slavery system.

 

[theDoors]

Why do Singaporeans allow a group of people like the PAP to hide and hoodwink their entire space in this world?

I think it is disgusting and no different from even animals bred for the dinner table to live such a pathetic life.

The PAP is supposed to bring a comfortable life for you not to hide facts and figures and pay themselves obscene salaries on a monthly basis that has no comparison any where else on earth.

Vote the PAPies out and all the truth will be known. Life will be better and our standard of living will improve. There may even be a few people thrown into jails for seditious acts against the state. How great it is then for the people of Singapore to get control back of the country.'

Vote the morally bankrupt PAPies out of power and you can then look at yourself in the mirror with some pride and so will your children.

They control the printed press, the radio stations, the television channels.

It's full spectrum dominance. 24/7 365 over almost 45 years of brain washing and scrubbing.

The imprints from the washing and scrubbing are still there despite awakening to the slavery in which we are being held.

Attempting to block and filter the internet. For all you know the coming elections, all the ISPs are "suddenly" down. They saw what happened in Malaysia. Trust me they are afraid, very afraid.

You know how I can tell, they are tightening the screws even harder/increasing the HDB prices to ridiculous levels.

 

[Glaringly]

Start another thread call wealth creation. We can go into details there.

I already feel bad for hijacking Goh Meng Seng thread to expound on the HDB mortgage slavery system.

Ok, will leave it the others to do their own sum, afterall time are so different now. We will never have another kind of cycle like the past 30 years.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

My point is don't focus on such things because, the loan servicing 30% of affordable income, loan tenure and the capital appreciative value is the same all over the world ( with variations for the respective local condition)

The singapore housing issues with this govt are

1) The starter price for acquiring a HDB flat for a young couple are astronomically high compared to the rest of the world plus uncertainty of getting it except if they are patient over years.
2) Its public housing and not private housing. Why are there so hoops to jump thru.
3) For the price that we pay, we can't choose, too many rounds of applications, lucky draw and in some cases hobson's choice
4) what subsidies? They have never presented a convincing case for the last 40 years
5) Poor planning in providing housing and singaporeans have to wait anxiously for years before family planning can begin. Is this contributing to the low birth rate and the record number of annulments that Singapore is famous for.
QUOTE]

I would like to add to -
1) The purchase of HDB is now inevitably linked to CPF, a retirement savings. The HDB has failed miserably in providing for Singaporeans affordable homes and has compounded its inadequacy by forcing Singaporeans to sacrifice their retirement savings.
2) The HDB has deliberately, over the years failed to release the numbers to help their case. The PM and in fact, the entire PAP is part of this desire to hide pertinent figures from the population. Not only is the minister in-charge of HDB morally bankrupt for withholding such figures but the PM and his rich MPs are all complicit in this diabolical scheme to inflict continuous debt on Singaporeans.
5) HDB flats are the only buildings where lifts do not stop on every floor. How irresponsible and idiotic! Truly, only a moron will allow for such planning to happen, over and over again. Further, 1st time buyers after waiting for their flats lose out on the asset enhancements unlike FTs who can afford to purchase HDB homes immediately and be able to encash their homes upon leaving Singapore.

Let's also not forget how the HDB retrenched a large number of their staff and paid millions in severance pay only to then rehire the same group under a different name.

There is much to dig into and te people of Singapore deserve better. Do not take no for an answer. Push and prod and give them hell if you do not get what you deserve, especially when it is the truth.

 

[theDoors]

I would like to add to -
1) The purchase of HDB is now inevitably linked to CPF, a retirement savings. The HDB has failed miserably in providing for Singaporeans affordable homes and has compounded its inadequacy by forcing Singaporeans to sacrifice their retirement savings.

Maybe the idea is NOT to let you retire. Milk every single ounce of productivity from you from cradle to coffin.

Singaporeans are the human batteries in the movie Matrix.

Harry is the architect.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Thank you for all the comments here. I don't own the thread here and it is perfectly alright for anyone with a view on HDB-CPF-Retirement financing to put forward his views here.

The key point of my message is that PAP's affordability argument is totally flawed. If one has to go for a 30 year mortgage in order to get his first flat, that's not affordability but enslavement. Yes, I agree with Scroobal, HDB should provide BASIC HOUSING for the young Singaporeans at REAL affordability with at most 20 years mortgage. If not, the problem will only be postponed to retirement financing.

I have tried to explain this simple concept to Singaporeans at market place. It seems that it works well. Singaporeans have suddenly realized that what PAP has offered is not affordability of housing at all, but enslavement instead.

I will need all people here who understand this simple message and agree with me on this point, to spread the message around. I believe there are still people out there who didn't realize the impact of PAP's flawed logic of affordability, what it will do to their children and future generations. Spread the message and tell them we need to send a clear and simple message to PAP that we will reject such housing enslavement scheme.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[theDoors]

The Singaporean human battery.

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[theDoors]

Thank you for all the comments here. I don't own the thread here and it is perfectly alright for anyone with a view on HDB-CPF-Retirement financing to put forward his views here.

The key point of my message is that PAP's affordability argument is totally flawed. If one has to go for a 30 year mortgage in order to get his first flat, that's not affordability but enslavement. Yes, I agree with Scroobal, HDB should provide BASIC HOUSING for the young Singaporeans at REAL affordability with at most 20 years mortgage. If not, the problem will only be postponed to retirement financing.

I have tried to explain this simple concept to Singaporeans at market place. It seems that it works well. Singaporeans have suddenly realized that what PAP has offered is not affordability of housing at all, but enslavement instead.

I will need all people here who understand this simple message and agree with me on this point, to spread the message around. I believe there are still people out there who didn't realize the impact of PAP's flawed logic of affordability, what it will do to their children and future generations. Spread the message and tell them we need to send a clear and simple message to PAP that we will reject such housing enslavement scheme.

Goh Meng Seng

Use it as a platform for campaigning then: End HDB mortgage slavery

 

[theDoors]

From the book 1984 by George Orwell

Freedom is Slavery: The argument behind "Freedom is Slavery" is a simple one. How can one man build a bridge, a skyscraper, or anything large on their own? The simple answer is that one alone cannot build these things without help. Thus the individual is powerless, and individual freedom weakens the individual by making it impossible to do anything grand. Therefore, to do anything grand, a person must join up with others and suppress their own will and personal freedoms. Otherwise, they achieve nothing, and destroy any attempt to achieve anything by doing so. The only true freedom a person has is the freedom to submit to a larger group and to influence that group by helping it. Therefore, freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is Power: In the world of "1984", to be called "black-white" was both a compliment and an insult. As a compliment, it meant that one could see everything black as being white if and when it was necessary and vice-versa. As an insult, it meant that a person was so stupid as to see something that was clearly black, as white. In effect, it was good to be ignorant of the facts, and bad to be ignorant of the current political spectrum. Ignorance had become powerful, whether it existed in you or your enemies, it could be used by for your own gain. Ignorance is Power.

 

[scroobal]

Firstly let me thank GMS to starting this thread. Clearly there is concern and more importantly has forced us to think critically.

Secondly I might have inadvertently painted the picture that shorter longer is desirable. If disposable income meant for entertainment and other unessential items can be cut down to pay off early, then those funds should go to cut down the loan tenure and not get stuck in the HDB trap as GMS has indicated. Don't however downsize your asset purchase to have a shorter tenure.

The role of government is to provide the mechanisms for creating affordable housing and jobs for its citizens. For the first time, Singaporeans are having concerns on both fronts. This was not the situation until recently. The perception appears to be a focus on accommodating new citizens and potential new citizens. The OZ govt provides housing grants for first time homebuyers, that a cash deposit for 3 room bugalow with carport and a garden is not necessary. Young couple around the age of 22 have taken up the offer by droves. What a great start! In this Singapore, its always a moving target. Nothing is certain except the pay for the cabinet. Thats pegged to the top professionals so someone else works hard and takes the professional risk, while a small coterie gets the reward.

If Singaporeans fail to signal their distaste and dissent at the next elections by supporting GMS and all those seeking to provide accountability of some sort, we would might succeed as an economy but fail as a nation and a country.

Thank you for all the comments here. I don't own the thread here and it is perfectly alright for anyone with a view on HDB-CPF-Retirement financing to put forward his views here.

 

[kingrant]

I standby what I have said in entirety. I did say A is the eventual winner but by not much. You don't need a math genius or use flowery accounting to work out the sum.

May I present you another option D which is the winner.

D start buying a new 3 room hdb flat back in the 70s, sell it, buy another new 4 room, sell it, buy another new 5 room, sell it.

Migrate.

That's the point here in this thread. New young couples are finding it impossible to follow that 1970s precedent now. It is a non-starter.

There's even option E if you care. And that is, if you make enough, you can buy a pte condo and rent it out without selling yr first flat. Stay in HDB, collect rent from condo.

 

[Papsmearer]

so what is the remedy?

Don't get married, don't buy house
and
continue to leech at your parents or in laws place?

:p

yes. that is the solution

 

[Papsmearer]

The reason I chose 1974 is to show how prices have risen over 30 years. Painting an empirical fact. In another 30 years time, we will go well past the current figures as the same basket of goods cannot be purchased by the same dollar. The formula and the methodology is the same. To an economist, money more valuable now than later.

I once cited the case of 3 civil servants of the same grade in the old SBF.
1) Person A bought a semi-D in the newly developed private housing estate in Serangoon Gardens
2) Person B bought a HDB flat and kept the rest in FD, continously putting his savings in it.
3)Person C never believing in borrowing money, saved up and bought his first house , a 3 room flat when he retired while staying in Govt qtrs.

After 30 years, Person A now owns a $2M asset that is unencumbered.Person B a 5 room flat valued at $650K and Person C a 3 room flat valued at $300K. Guess who paid the most in interest and came out best in terms of asset - Person A. The person C who was the most frugal had the least valued asset and he never paid a single cent in interest. So what went wrong with Person C?

The trick is put your money in an investment that grows the fastest with acceptable risk. There is only one in land short Singapore - property.

This analogy is not accurate. Actually, Person A is the only land owner. Person B and C are tenants.

 

[Cestbon]

Average salary increase by 2 time and HDB price increase by 5 times for the pass 20 years. CPF contribution by employeer down by 26% so how can ordinary keep up the HDB price increase. To make thing worst bottom 20% wage have not increase at all still same as 1990.

 

[gohsanho]

The CPI consumer price index is still base on the same basket of items 20 years ago but now suddenly the hdb price sg were told is not appropriate. The goal post suddenly shifted when Messy is about to score. May be we are not in the world cup league so our rules can bent here and there.

 

[scroobal]

These chaps have been playing with the CPI index for so long that they have no idea of reality. As most of the stuff in the index is controlled by NTUC, they spend all their time fixing the indicators than the problem.

The CPI consumer price index is still base on the same basket of items 20 years ago but now suddenly the hdb price sg were told is not appropriate. The goal post suddenly shifted when Messy is about to score. May be we are not in the world cup league so our rules can bent here and there.

 

[theDoors]

Yarn spun by fable times

Millionaire by 45? It's possible if...
http://www.asiaone.com/print/Business/News/My+Money/Story/A1Story20100115-192174.html

For a graduate professional couple, the goal of becoming millionaires is not too distant, says a S'pore website.

Mon, Jan 18, 2010
AsiaOne

For a graduate couple in Singapore earning median salaries, the goal of becoming millionaires is not too distant, at least on paper.

That is, if they save a third of their income from age 25, and invest prudently to earn a modest return of three per cent a year. This does not include non-liquid assets such as property.

Singapore website salary.sg says that according to the Ministry of Manpower's report on wages 2008, the median salary for professional in the 25-29 age group is $3,416. Professionals in their late thirties can expect to earn a median salary of $5,048. According to this estimate, their combined income will range from $6,832 to $10,096, and by saving a third of their income every month, they can afford to invest between $2,277 to $3,365 a month.

The website claims, "suppose both of you started working at age 25, and always save and invest one-third of your income. If your savings and investments earn just a three per cent rate of return a year, you would have accumulated half a million dollars by age 37 and a full million bucks by age 45".

It also says that a couple who are both managers, earning a median salary of $3,860 a month, can become millionaires by age 39, if they save 40 per cent of their income.

Some netizens have reacted to this post with enthusiasm, while others were doubtful.

One commented that the hypothetical couple must have no children, while some said the blog post assumed that the couple suffered no financial setbacks such as failed investments, retrenchment or expensive medical treatments.

However, a financial adviser interviewed by Lianhe Wanbao agreed that by saving conscientiously and investing prudently, this is possible.

Financial adviser Mr Dennis Ng told Wanbao that low to medium risk investments can yield a three to five per cent return, so the assumption of a three per cent rate of return is relatively conservative.

"If they can invest shrewdly, such as putting a portion of their savings into high-yield stocks, then they can reach their target even faster, but this also entails higher risk."

Mr Ng says he earned his first million just 15 years after he started working. He started with a monthly income of $6,000.

"I agree that how fast you accumulate your first million is due to two main factors - how much you save and the rate of return of your investments," he said.

A poll on the site also asked readers how old they were when they accumulated $1 million in cash and investments. The majority - 50 per cent - said they have yet to reach that goal. Thirty-eight per cent said they had saved $1 million by age 44. However, it is not clear how many people took the poll.

One forummer nicknamed "lucky investor" shared that it was possible with the assumption that one's investments do well consistently every year.

"I am pretty sure many investors who placed their hard-earned savings with so-called professional fund managers over the last five years would still be seeing a loss, much less any profit. Worse-off are those who invested in structured deposits like credit-linked notes. One has to overcome market volatility, corporate scandals, financial crises and emotions, as well as have a bit of luck to succeed.

"Personally I have been quite fortunate in my investments over the past six years, and managed to turn $200,000 capital into $1.25 million through real-estate and stocks," he said.

Another forummer "Skeptical" shared that "my wife and I don't club, don't drink, don't smoke, don't drive, hardly shop and I have paid off about $60,000 of loan after five years. I am a month away from 31 years old and I don't even have $10,000 of savings to my name".

He also wrote that after graduation, he had to pay off study loans, spent an additional $22,000 on an MBA and purchased an HDB flat in 2007 at the height of the property market.

He concluded, "I too would like to save up one third of my salary but it really isn't too realistic if you would like to have your own place and your parents are too poor to help you with the down payment."