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Breaking News!Pastor Kong Hee And Pastors Arrested And Charge!
- Thread starter Talking Donkey
- Start date
M
Mdm Tang
Guest
little bird said a Queen Counsel
might be on the card.
might be on the card.
Yup, heard that too. A prominent QC.Chinese.
A personal friend of Michael Hwang SC?
M
Mdm Tang
Guest
.
Wahhh...
Wahhh...
QCs are useless in singki court.
M
Mdm Tang
Guest
.
this QC is a Christian .
Maybe God-Send and in answer
to CHC 's prayers ...
this QC is a Christian .
Maybe God-Send and in answer
to CHC 's prayers ...
No hanky panky n bs allowed in singki court n no nonsense rulings. QCs have no room to play pink here
" The reason I did that was because this is where I grew up in, and experienced many good. Everything I learned about being a good Christian, a good man, a good son and husband, I learned it all here – in CHC "
stupid christians , is he a 3year old kid ? he dont know how to be a better person without any religion ? he cant even tell what is right or wrong ? or he needed reward ( ticket to heaven ) to be a good man ?
Yeah, all of us non-christians are evil baby eaters.
Last edited:
M
Mdm Tang
Guest
Queen's Counsel ? Chinese some more ? Must be this one:
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周星馳: Lawyer Lawyer 算死草 (1997) Cantonese Full Movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jd4-qnrS-0&feature=related
In recent weeks, many people have asked me about what happened to me, some have not been too kind (asking me not to be judgmental and yada yada yada ==> but hey… actually I feel as if I’m the one being “judged” haha – you don’t even know a bit about the “story”… but I can live with that), some have heard from others about me (kindof warped I should say; might as well ask me directly). Some have called me “bitter” and “judgmental” (hey… after being implied through the pulpit a reprobate, ingrate, absalom, etc ==> what’s new man?). And many have asked me to “lay out the facts”.
So, rather than have you hear from others, I decided today to tell you my side of the story (I try to keep it short), and lay out some facts over the course of time as demanded (as much as it does not affect the ongoing cantonese event going on).
This is a short summary about the history of what happened according to what I’ve experienced
March 2010
• CHC announced the joint-ownership model of Suntec Convention Center through a holding company
• CHC came under much fire by members of the public and critics both from within and outside of CHC
• Between March 2010 till September 2010, I have been actively speaking up for the leadership of the church, actively engaging the “critics”. You can still see some of the things I wrote (PK’s blog, various forums under the nic “Ronaldwong” ==> most of it have been removed by moderators (but I kept copies of it). No doubt they were genuine, and in this situation, 2 separate issues.
• In April 2010 I joined the “CHC Cyber Task Force” – basically a group of 5-6 cgls whose main objectives were to engage the social media to offer a “balanced view” of the church and the leadership, based on our own experience. It was headed by a CHC Zone Supervisor and we were actively engaging the various forums such as AsiaOne, fuckwarezone, SammyBoy, Konghee.com, etc. I was actively participating until Sep 2010. Some of my posts are still there (if you like to see them, I have printed them to soft copy, as most of it was deleted).
• During the period from March 2010 to September 2010, I believed everything that I hear totally without question. And I have been actively defending the church and the leadership without question. The reason I did that was because this is where I grew up in, and experienced many good. Everything I learned about being a good Christian, a good man, a good son and husband, I learned it all here – in CHC. I was so convicted about my “understanding” of the situation that when I engaged the public forum, I used my real name, and even challenged the critics to come and join me at the cell group which I lead for many years – so that I can prove to them that what some of the serious allegations were unfounded. Of course, none of the critics appeared.
What Happened Between Oct 2010 to Feb 2011
In Oct 2010, an anonymous person (I suspect was from one of the forum I was actively engaged with who was adamant he had the “evidence”) dropped me a mail containing a stack of papers and some stuff at my office. Included inside were photocopied documents of CHC pastoral and financial reports, documents of CHC-linked companies such as XTron Productions Pte Ltd, AMAC Capital and it’s related companies, among others. When I saw the documents, it set me thinking for a while that these were perhaps “fabricated”. Whether are they credible, I leave it up to your imagination – actually some of them can be purchased off Bizfile for a small price.
The fact that being in the cyber-taskforce, and on several occasions having to have your “taskforce team leader” call you personally on the phone to remove certain posts you made to rebut/challenge the critics because what they say “was not entirely wrong”, certainly did not help clarify my doubts.
It set me through a process from just believing whatever was told – on the basis of “trust” and “love”, to being critically analytical (critically analytical means to carefully think through) about many things I hear being said – from various ones, including my own pastor, staff who left, to others who have in some ways worked with CHC or its related companies.
The documents dropped by the “anonymous” opened many doors for my thinking cap – some of the companies linked to CHC – if you recall in recent meetings, was known to be very “established” in the marketplace, were recording very poor financials year-on-year in the report (you can download the financials off bizfile), and were not compliant to ACRA’s compliance rating stipulated under the Companies Act – which business in the world would want to do that?
It caused me to probe into many more things that was since time past (since 1995), esp post-Hollywood days in 2001 from the Roland Poon saga to the Multi-Purpose Account (MPA) to Hollywood, etc.
3 things got me very uncomfortable:
1) Financials – for the CHC-linked-companies, where did the monies come from? And where did the monies go to? Don’t just tell me about Xtron. Tell me about AMAC Capital and AMAC whatever, as well as all the rest of the “you-know-which-ones”. Where were the cash flows? What fees were charged? What sort of “arms length dealings” are we talking about if you are reporting such losses? Why the millions of financial losses? What actually happened and who bore the losses? Where did the money go? In the CG ministry and a CGL since 2003, I’m really clueless except for very nice picture of info painted in the meetings – not to mention those who came later – what do they know? When I probed, the standard answer was “it is under investigation, so cannot say”, or “it is under NDA”. If the amount it cost Suntec REIT to buy 51% stake of ARA Harmony Fund can be publicly disclosed, what is the problem with disclosure? Today, with this info, you can almost work out an estimate off the AR posted by the REIT and come to a conclusion about the viability of the deal – no need to wait for the latest AR to be given. You guys should really step up and ask questions about these companies and their nature of dealings. The church accounts up to 2009 looks ok, very comprehensive notes although there were some questionable which can only be answered if the other related companies were better understood. Look instead at other areas that your money went to. Focus on the cash flow statement (CF) ==> Where did the money come from? Where did the money go to? What was it used for?
2) The “Reality-illusion” divide – matters such as the ZS scheme vs really “loving” people, the inflating of congregation size vs “being faithful in the little things”, the pop “success” of Sun down to her lifestyle and “American management company” and the $5m worth of contract, 2209 Canyon Drive, China first-day cover (2004), etc. What is happening to all that were taught from time past? Overwritten by CM?
3) The future of the church in Suntec – and how members will continue giving and sacrificing while some constantly have pockets of money – tithe, offering and building fund pledges going into a separate “multi-purpose-fund” account not declared to ordinary and ministry members? The UOB account that was closed and immediately followed by the same collection in cash only (avoid paper trace?) at the end of every month, etc. Basically, there are members who were sacrificing their “lives” away – ordinary people who make a honest living working hard, sacrificing/delaying their life goals to contribute to the church operating/building fund and yet somewhere out there, there were so many people giving into a seperate account unknown to more than 70% of the congregation. We have more than enough people to verify this giving in cash, in case you think they are rumours. Is the suntec shift a sustainable move? Does the congregation size justify such a move (knowing full well that there was not 33,000 at all at the point the decision was made)?
Is there a remote chance that perhaps things are not as what we see and believe to be? If so, then what happened to the lives and time and money that so many innocent people give, out of simple trust and goodwill, wanting to do something for Jesus and make a difference in others? Is that an abuse of trust? Granted, it is “constitutionally correct” – but in terms of governance, ethics and morals found sorrily wanting – in a place known to be a moral center with a important role as a critical social pillar of nation building.
Personally, this perhaps was the toughest season in my life – I had to grapple with the thought that perhaps… just perhaps… all that I believed all these years which makes one successful and a good man – is it really sustainable? I’m concerned about how will I become in future, having been taught the “DNA” for the past 16 years. What if it is all a dream? What is my life like now? You really have to go through a lot of serious thinking.
I penned the saddest songs and poems during this season of my life, even as I begin to see my friends leave one by one I can’t help asking. I tried to understand more, but I realize, after speaking with my Pastor, that it was impossible. I sent him a very concerned email sometime in February 2011, and met up with him hoping to know more but instead of clarifying, he tried to make me feel that it was “wrong” to doubt my pastor and ask these sort of questions because “I was supposed to trust the leadership”. He even suggested that my “heart was poisoned” and that I should present myself as an example during a FAQ to the leaders to ”acknowledge that I had been misled by certain individuals and warn the rest of the leaders to be careful”. The only consolation he gave me was “many things he dunno” and “he will check for me”.
The Final Straw came in March 2011 when my immediate “team leader” asked me to stop probing and being so vocal about my findings – only to discover later that he is a board member of one of the CHC-linked group. I take it as a conflict of undisclosed interest rather than discipleship. Not wanting to be held ransom under his authority, I left the church in March 2011, determined to uncover the truth. They were trying to silent me.
I have to admit that I went through an emotional roller-coaster and was angry for some time – I think it is normal to be angry. But it is neither uncontrolled rage nor bitterness. Just angry at what is going on in a place that never ought to be happening. Thankfully, over time in a new environment, I was able to regain clarity and live all over again in spite of what has happened. Now, creating awareness is my main priority.
The last 6 months
From the day I discovered that I have been wrong about many things, I set on a mission to uncover the truth. It was after I left that I realized that I stand on a very different side of sociology – “isolation” from the people I know as “family members”. My determination come from the fact that my parents are still attending the church, as well as many of my friends whom I have known for the past 16 years – so my concern is for them not to be mislead.
There are also talk that “I have been spreading rumours” which resulted in people leaving. For goodness sake, if that had been true, then there would have been a explosive revival in my new church! But no, we just want to go back to the Word where Jesus is the center. All I did was for those who sought me to “talk it out”, I asked them to open their eyes and pray and be careful – before giving away their money – because it represents their lives. There are many adults who have brains to think and not easily manipulated emotionally nor fall easily to some “marketing jargons” – I have no influence over them. Rather than doing so many funny things, I suggest rebuilding broken trust by disclosure. The recent FAQ is disappointing – because it did not touch a single bit on the real issues. And what you failed to do, someone else will. I’m not the first one – I just happen to be the current ”mascot” (had to redeem all my wrongs for being naive). There will be more people stepping out.
We have very good and committed members in CHC and I love and respect every single one of them. The problem Is not the church or the members. As much as I can, I will try to deal with this matter honorably, to the extent honor is due.
I made a decision to set out to uncover the truth for all to know, so that you can rebuild the house in order, and I know it will cause conflict with the people I regard as “friends” there. Nevertheless, this is a tough choice to make and I have decided to see it to the finish, in spite of the challenges it presents. It has been a worthy fight the last 6 months, to turn from one side to the other, adn then to uncover the truth. And I’m just starting to take it to a new level – publishing all these documents for all to see over time, perhaps chronologically.
Some people choose to build a building, I just felt it is more important to rebuild our lives – starting with putting Jesus as the center in everything, and releasing the truth that will set people free. We all need a closure to this saga. Vindicative, if possible, but most important than anything – be careful with your giving. It represents your blood and life. Revelations 16 says something about it, besides Eekiel 13.
“Peace if possible but truth at any cost” – Martin Luther.
This is my story. At the end of the day, I like what a brother say, that “we may be in different camps now, but we are under one Cross”. And this Cain (if you treat him as one) is not going to say “am I my brother’s keeper”. Rather this Cain is gonna say “I AM my brother’s keeper”. You are always my brother and sister, regardless of what you think of me after I left.
.
Ronald Wong
* Ronald Wong worshiped in City Harvest Church for 16 years. He was a cell group leader and a member of the CHC Cyber Task Force of the church. He left CHC in Mar 2011. Since he wrote this article and posted online, he has been receiving hate mails from various CHC supporters.
** This article was written in Sep 2011 way before Kong Hee and others were charged in Court in Jun 2012.
City Harvest Church's targeting of children and young persons at schools
Recruitment by religious groups in schools targeting children and young persons
Concerned Indian parent writes to Heng Swee Kiat on CHC’s
Source: http://www.facebook.com/notes/harve...nd-young-persons-at-schools/10151004047619722
ucky Tan in his blog Diary of a Singaporean Mind covered this on 5 July in a post entitled 'This video troubles me...'
The post is linked here
I felt strongly about it and wrote to the Minister for Education, Mr Heng Swee Keat. My email is enclosed below.
I'm sharing it here because I think it will give some of you (especially those who are parents) cause to think about whether schools are actually the safe spaces we'd like to believe they are. Those of you who feel the Ministry of Education should act firmly in this matter to regain schools as safe spaces, free from religious recruitment, might want to also write to the minister or engage your representative on this.
Minister Heng's official contact information is listed here:
http://app.sgdi.gov.sg/listing.asp?agency_subtype=dept&agency_id=0000004564#HENG_Swee_Keat
____________
From: Harveen Narulla <harveen></harveen>
Subject: Recruitment by religious groups in schools targeting children and young persons
Date: July 11, 2012 8:38:54 AM GMT+08:00
To: [email protected]
Hi Minister Heng,
The link below is to a blog post by local blogger Lucky Tan, whose blog has a large following in Singapore. The post shines a light on City Harvest Church's (CHC) practice of targeting young school children for recruitment into its congregation.
http://bit.Iy/Nk613P
The blog post features a video of a youth leader at CHC explaining the church's strategy. According to the youth leader, CHC's religious groups have been doing this for 10 years and have penetrated 70% of schools in Singapore, despite knowing that they are not allowed to operate in schools. At 10:30 in the video, he proudly declares: "So as you can see, most of my leaders, full time staff, worshippee [sic], they all came from the school revival. If you reach the school, you can build a church."
You should watch the first few minutes of the video featured on the blog.
While the blog post focuses on CHC, I don't know whether it is safe to conclude it is the only mega church to engage in such practices.
As a parent of 2 young children this targeting of children and young persons in schools concerns me extremely. Ideally my wife and I want our family and community, and the modeling we provide, to have the guiding say over my children's religious choices. At the very least, we do not expect them to be subject to influence in a place we had thought to be a safe space from religions influence. It annoys me as a parent that on top of everything else that occupies us in our child rearing, we now have to worry about protecting our children from this kind of insidious approach by religious institutions reaching into schools. I've engaged with several parents in my circle in the past couple of days to discuss this, and their reaction and concerns mirror mine.
I do hope you do not dodge the issue by simply citing freedom of religious practice. Schools are supposed to be neutral spaces. Apposite to this, the need to keep school spaces free from the long arm of religion is the reason why school children in my community (the Sikh community) cannot get instruction in our religious tenets along with the Punjabi language classes they attend at the language centres on weekends. Not all of us parents in the Sikh community agree with this, but we respect the policy and understand that in such matters a bright line rule is justifiable.
I hope you and others in a position to do so, act to stamp out this unwarranted influencing of children and young persons by mega churches (and indeed by other religious organisations). Please do not ignore this. CHC claims to have penetrated 70% of schools in Singapore. I think it's about time your Ministry acted decisively on this. Not fulfilling your obligation to keep schools as safe spaces means that we parents may have to just teach our children to mistrust other children as we cannot be sure of their motivations in engaging with our children. This is not good for all our children, and not good for Singapore.
Coincidentally I also noted this report on the suspension this week of the NUS Campus Crusade for Christ (NUS CCFC).
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1212761/1/.html
I think they have been in the public eye in February this year as well, for insensitive actions and comments about other religions. It reinforces my view that merely giving a light slap on the wrist to organisations whose core ethos is aggressive proselytization is ineffective and will continue to be so. A gentle response is cold comfort to us parents because it will likely have similar weak and transient effect.
I'm watching with concern for real measures you will initiate to ensure my and other children are suitably protected in schools under your watch.
respectfully,
Harveen Narulla
Mobile: **** ****
Source: http://www.facebook.com/notes/harve...nd-young-persons-at-schools/10151004047619722
Recruitment by religious groups in schools targeting children and young persons
Concerned Indian parent writes to Heng Swee Kiat on CHC’s
Source: http://www.facebook.com/notes/harve...nd-young-persons-at-schools/10151004047619722
ucky Tan in his blog Diary of a Singaporean Mind covered this on 5 July in a post entitled 'This video troubles me...'
The post is linked here
I felt strongly about it and wrote to the Minister for Education, Mr Heng Swee Keat. My email is enclosed below.
I'm sharing it here because I think it will give some of you (especially those who are parents) cause to think about whether schools are actually the safe spaces we'd like to believe they are. Those of you who feel the Ministry of Education should act firmly in this matter to regain schools as safe spaces, free from religious recruitment, might want to also write to the minister or engage your representative on this.
Minister Heng's official contact information is listed here:
http://app.sgdi.gov.sg/listing.asp?agency_subtype=dept&agency_id=0000004564#HENG_Swee_Keat
____________
From: Harveen Narulla <harveen></harveen>
Subject: Recruitment by religious groups in schools targeting children and young persons
Date: July 11, 2012 8:38:54 AM GMT+08:00
To: [email protected]
Hi Minister Heng,
The link below is to a blog post by local blogger Lucky Tan, whose blog has a large following in Singapore. The post shines a light on City Harvest Church's (CHC) practice of targeting young school children for recruitment into its congregation.
http://bit.Iy/Nk613P
The blog post features a video of a youth leader at CHC explaining the church's strategy. According to the youth leader, CHC's religious groups have been doing this for 10 years and have penetrated 70% of schools in Singapore, despite knowing that they are not allowed to operate in schools. At 10:30 in the video, he proudly declares: "So as you can see, most of my leaders, full time staff, worshippee [sic], they all came from the school revival. If you reach the school, you can build a church."
You should watch the first few minutes of the video featured on the blog.
While the blog post focuses on CHC, I don't know whether it is safe to conclude it is the only mega church to engage in such practices.
As a parent of 2 young children this targeting of children and young persons in schools concerns me extremely. Ideally my wife and I want our family and community, and the modeling we provide, to have the guiding say over my children's religious choices. At the very least, we do not expect them to be subject to influence in a place we had thought to be a safe space from religions influence. It annoys me as a parent that on top of everything else that occupies us in our child rearing, we now have to worry about protecting our children from this kind of insidious approach by religious institutions reaching into schools. I've engaged with several parents in my circle in the past couple of days to discuss this, and their reaction and concerns mirror mine.
I do hope you do not dodge the issue by simply citing freedom of religious practice. Schools are supposed to be neutral spaces. Apposite to this, the need to keep school spaces free from the long arm of religion is the reason why school children in my community (the Sikh community) cannot get instruction in our religious tenets along with the Punjabi language classes they attend at the language centres on weekends. Not all of us parents in the Sikh community agree with this, but we respect the policy and understand that in such matters a bright line rule is justifiable.
I hope you and others in a position to do so, act to stamp out this unwarranted influencing of children and young persons by mega churches (and indeed by other religious organisations). Please do not ignore this. CHC claims to have penetrated 70% of schools in Singapore. I think it's about time your Ministry acted decisively on this. Not fulfilling your obligation to keep schools as safe spaces means that we parents may have to just teach our children to mistrust other children as we cannot be sure of their motivations in engaging with our children. This is not good for all our children, and not good for Singapore.
Coincidentally I also noted this report on the suspension this week of the NUS Campus Crusade for Christ (NUS CCFC).
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1212761/1/.html
I think they have been in the public eye in February this year as well, for insensitive actions and comments about other religions. It reinforces my view that merely giving a light slap on the wrist to organisations whose core ethos is aggressive proselytization is ineffective and will continue to be so. A gentle response is cold comfort to us parents because it will likely have similar weak and transient effect.
I'm watching with concern for real measures you will initiate to ensure my and other children are suitably protected in schools under your watch.
respectfully,
Harveen Narulla
Mobile: **** ****
Source: http://www.facebook.com/notes/harve...nd-young-persons-at-schools/10151004047619722
If you and family/good friends are not a CHC member, then it is half a problem. For not so good friends or enemies, recommend than to CHC or any of the Mega Churches. 
Now, the other half problem is you should worry about how pappies rob you and your next generations.
Now, the other half problem is you should worry about how pappies rob you and your next generations.
[h=2]Concerned Indian parent writes to Heng Swee Kiat on CHC’s proselytizing activities in Singapore schools[/h]Posted by temasektimes on July 13, 2012
An Indian parent Harveen Narulla has written to Education Minister Heng Swee Kiat express his concerns about the proselytizing activities of City Harvest Church (CHC) in Singapore schools.
In a widely circulated video clip of a youth leader at CHC explaining the church’s strategy, he claimed that CHC has ‘penetrated’ 70 percent of schools in Singapore and at 10:30 in the video, he proudly declared:
“So as you can see, most of my leaders, full time staff, worshippee [sic], they all came from the school revival. If you reach the school, you can build a church.”
“As a parent of 2 young children this targeting of children and young persons in schools concerns me extremely. Ideally my wife and I want our family and community, and the modeling we provide, to have the guiding say over my children’s religious choices. At the very least, we do not expect them to be subject to influence in a place we had thought to be a safe space from religions influence.”
He urged Mr Heng to take ‘decisive action’ against City Harvest Church:
“I hope you and others in a position to do so, act to stamp out this unwarranted influencing of children and young persons by mega churches (and indeed by other religious organisations). Please do not ignore this. CHC claims to have penetrated 70% of schools in Singapore. I think it’s about time your Ministry acted decisively on this. “
CHC has been under intense public scrutiny of late after its founder Kong Hee was charged along with four other board members last Wednesday for misusing S$50 million dollars of the church funds to further the music career of his singer wife Ho Yeow Sun.
Read Mr Harveen’s full letter here.
An Indian parent Harveen Narulla has written to Education Minister Heng Swee Kiat express his concerns about the proselytizing activities of City Harvest Church (CHC) in Singapore schools.
In a widely circulated video clip of a youth leader at CHC explaining the church’s strategy, he claimed that CHC has ‘penetrated’ 70 percent of schools in Singapore and at 10:30 in the video, he proudly declared:
“So as you can see, most of my leaders, full time staff, worshippee [sic], they all came from the school revival. If you reach the school, you can build a church.”
<IFRAME class=youtube-player height=390 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sax4WIWuseY?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent" frameBorder=0 width=640 type="text/html"></IFRAME>
Mr Harveen Narulla began his letter by expressing his concerns at CHC’s specific targeting of children in schools:“As a parent of 2 young children this targeting of children and young persons in schools concerns me extremely. Ideally my wife and I want our family and community, and the modeling we provide, to have the guiding say over my children’s religious choices. At the very least, we do not expect them to be subject to influence in a place we had thought to be a safe space from religions influence.”
He urged Mr Heng to take ‘decisive action’ against City Harvest Church:
“I hope you and others in a position to do so, act to stamp out this unwarranted influencing of children and young persons by mega churches (and indeed by other religious organisations). Please do not ignore this. CHC claims to have penetrated 70% of schools in Singapore. I think it’s about time your Ministry acted decisively on this. “
CHC has been under intense public scrutiny of late after its founder Kong Hee was charged along with four other board members last Wednesday for misusing S$50 million dollars of the church funds to further the music career of his singer wife Ho Yeow Sun.
Read Mr Harveen’s full letter here.
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