in the event that we got lucky and LHL managed to lose AMK GRC. What do you think will happen? as long as LKY is still alive, he will become the PM AGAIN!
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An Election STRATEGY that could TOPPLE this government.
- Thread starter Nice-Gook
- Start date
in the event that we got lucky and LHL managed to lose AMK GRC. What do you think will happen? as long as LKY is still alive, he will become the PM AGAIN!
Nice Gook, yes the PAP has been "fooling" us for the past 40 years. I applaud your idea and wish you every success. You are correct, we Singaporeans have to make a stand now or allow ourselves to be subjugated to PAP rule for the rest of our lives.
The answer to that is simple: Not all opposition candidates are created equal.In terms of value:
Some are worth your vote.
Others are not.
Others are not.
Hmmm...two more points:
(1) An extra 5 opposition may create a catalyst for more people to join the opposition
Even if they do nothing but give speeches, their success will be an encouragement to others
So there is still some good (but i am ambivalent about this
)
(2) On the other hand, your method of bringing down the PAP will leave a vacuum. I presume you are a singaporean. Then this vacuum will create a period of uncertainty in Singapore. If you are also thinking of your fellow singaporeans, this will not be a situation that you want.
It is better to have courageous and viable oppositions in Parliament, let them build up their strength and capability and in time to come, the emergence of a viable alternative.
Once you have that viable alternative, a number of citizens will be willing to consider them.
One final point:
(3) Scroobal's insider knowledge give me pause for thought. I and possibly you are just giving opinions here and in the final analysis, just opinions.
So we cannot exclude the possibility that we might be wrong.
What is good on paper might not be achievable - the terrain (which we do not know) may change the strategy.
(1) An extra 5 opposition may create a catalyst for more people to join the opposition
Even if they do nothing but give speeches, their success will be an encouragement to others
So there is still some good (but i am ambivalent about this
)(2) On the other hand, your method of bringing down the PAP will leave a vacuum. I presume you are a singaporean. Then this vacuum will create a period of uncertainty in Singapore. If you are also thinking of your fellow singaporeans, this will not be a situation that you want.
It is better to have courageous and viable oppositions in Parliament, let them build up their strength and capability and in time to come, the emergence of a viable alternative.
Once you have that viable alternative, a number of citizens will be willing to consider them.
One final point:
(3) Scroobal's insider knowledge give me pause for thought. I and possibly you are just giving opinions here and in the final analysis, just opinions.
So we cannot exclude the possibility that we might be wrong.
What is good on paper might not be achievable - the terrain (which we do not know) may change the strategy.
In terms of value:
Some are worth your vote.
Others are not.
Its important that we don't get hung up on quality of opposition. Its to reduce the number of seats held by the PAP. That the only focus.
The PAP has to know that Singaporeans are not happy, there must be changes, society must move forward together and not leave behind the unfortunate and the less capable. They must be more transparent. We want to know the actual unemployment levels of born singaporean and not those that naturalised or PRs.
The moment you talk about quality of opposition, we will lose focus. Old man's favourite habit at election timke was talking about academic qualifications of opposition. Let not fall into that trap.
<style></style>You tok of Barisan.Can anyone here argue that Barisan became irrelevant just because they boycotted elections? You must be kidding.Barisan lost because of host of other things too.ISA played a big part.Just as bankrupting credible opposition candidates now.
In our westminster parliamentary election system, If PAP are lucky, they can win 55% of votes and lose just 2 seats or none.
The opposition can lose heavily everywhere throughout the island but if they win 50.1% in 1 GRC, that is 5 seats up from 2.
will seats losses or a significant decrease in nationwide votes made PAP listen to the people mandate.
Would PAP declare a victory if their nationwide votes drop to 59% but won back 1 or both opposition wards ( can happen )
Would the oppositions declare a satisfactory campaign if they won 40% plus votes for the first time since 1963 but still has only 2 seats ( can happen too )
The opposition can lose heavily everywhere throughout the island but if they win 50.1% in 1 GRC, that is 5 seats up from 2.
will seats losses or a significant decrease in nationwide votes made PAP listen to the people mandate.
Would PAP declare a victory if their nationwide votes drop to 59% but won back 1 or both opposition wards ( can happen )
Would the oppositions declare a satisfactory campaign if they won 40% plus votes for the first time since 1963 but still has only 2 seats ( can happen too )
<style></style>You tok as if LKY demise would bring everlasting peace and happiness to Singapore.Why don't you go a wee bit further and prove your point.That is after LKY death democracy returns to sinkie.Go ahead and prove your point.
Speaking for myself as a voter, if the opposition presented a coherent plan that will bring forth 49% of the seats to them, then a case can be argued that a vote for the opposition is a vote for the citizens.
The benefits of this are many. And they are derived from the fact that the PAP understands that they do not have the support they crave.
In fact this scenario is the fastest way to get a viable party up.
But such a strategy needs publicity, soft sell and hard sell and above all, leaders walking the talk.
Only when the electorate can see the value of this to themselves and perhaps the possibility of a higher gst payout should this happen, only then will this have a possibility of becoming reality.
Such a strategy cannot be communicated over 7 days of campaigning.
Now, on the other hand, if the possibility arise that the PAP can be voted out completely, then the question arise - who will replace them?
If the opposition feels that they can do a better job, then they need to sell that well to the electorate - because this question will always be on the minds of the electorate who have a stake in this country - their propert(ies), jobs and loved ones. As such, the point raised by LKY carries weight for the simple reason it is grounded in reality.
To counter that, there must be a viable alternate reality and the electorate acceptance of this will be base on their trust that the opposition candidates can deliver.
That's the whole reason for forming political parties as well as holding elections: to win a majority seat in the parliament and to form their own government. To do that in a proclaimed democracy country with a set of capitalist laws, you will need the mandate of the citizen. Hence the need for election. That's why it's often referred as the do-or-die campaign.
Even if you were to topple LHL, what gives? If LHL and LKY were both defeated (let's assume this way), but the PAPies still hold the majority to run the country, what gives you the idea that change will come around? You have to remember one thing: even if the leader is not holding on to the seat, as long as he/she is still alive, he/she still pulls the strings in the running of the country. That's a fact which no one can change. Already, there are so many examples worldwide, in that case, why do you even talk about ONLY toppling LHL?
<style></style>Boy Oh boy.You sure have a twisted and tinted idea of how democracy works.I am talking of accountability here.The PM and his cabinet remains accountable to the people all the time.Its not as if you go to the polls every five years and than shut yourself from how the government works for you.You don't elect a government that burdens you ...Instead you elect a government that works for you.And if does not work for you well than its held accountable by the members of parliament,free press ,judiciary and so on.
Err,I don't blame you.Being under 40 years of authoritarian rule we do forget what indeed democracy is all about.
Why than do I talk of defeating only LHL you ask?Well I am no snake oil salesman.I cannot offer you a cure all potion now.I can only suggest the best option under an uniquely GRC electoral system in which the grounds are tilted grossly unfavorable to the oppositions.....So its a choice between the best of all evils so as to speak...Simply put with the little time and the scare resources our oppositions are forced to bear.Go for LHL.It is that are nothing.
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Why in god name must there be so many different opposition parties in such a small state like Singapore? Unlike Malaysia, the parties there are formed mainly along racial lines. They do not share the same ideology. What is the problem for our opposition parties to consolidate their resources and fight as one major party? Until you guys understand that unity is strength, the opposition will never ever be considered as a threat to those scums in power...
Elections in singapore is a sham and deceitful.
Look at the elections boundary.
Every polling station is catered to a certain cluster of HDB blocks, PAP knows which cluster of HDB blocks are pro-PAP or anti-PAP, this enables them to redraw boundary.
In addition, the FT- policy ruse has served PAP well, the New citizens now form a huge group of voters which are mainly pro-PAP.
So PAP sure win through deceit.
The best option is to boycott the next elections altogether or like nice gook said---go for main artery at the neck---contest TP GRC and Marine parade GRC and AMK GRC where the chief crooks are with the dream teams.
if all else fails, boycott the elections and let world knows especially Obama that elections in singapore is all about bullshits.
Look at the elections boundary.
Every polling station is catered to a certain cluster of HDB blocks, PAP knows which cluster of HDB blocks are pro-PAP or anti-PAP, this enables them to redraw boundary.
In addition, the FT- policy ruse has served PAP well, the New citizens now form a huge group of voters which are mainly pro-PAP.
So PAP sure win through deceit.
The best option is to boycott the next elections altogether or like nice gook said---go for main artery at the neck---contest TP GRC and Marine parade GRC and AMK GRC where the chief crooks are with the dream teams.
if all else fails, boycott the elections and let world knows especially Obama that elections in singapore is all about bullshits.
<style></style>Did I hear you say we should wait 6 more years?
Well that's how PAP history of 40 years of misrule begin.
Simply because our fathers and mothers simply forgave PAP misrule and gave another 5 more years to rule.And before they realize it is misruling for 40 years or more.In return the PAP hung a rope around their necks and your neck too.Such is the legacy our grandpa passed to your pa and now you would want to pass it to your children too !!!!!!
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persevance does pay.
Sun Wen and Xingzhonghui took 10 revolutions / 15 years before Wuchang military uprising finally succeeded.
Identify your target and focus on them. Is it LHL or LKY. Is it worth attacking LKY when the next GE is probably his last.
If you can send only two GRC teams to fight the heavyweights. Would it be LHL and LKY. or LHL and GCT or LKY and GCT.
LKY less PAP will be very interesting. will LHL lead the party like nothing has changed. Did we underestimate LHL? will GCT usurp power? Will another minister with his own powerbase try to take over the party?
will we see a spilt in the PAP ranks with the possibility that a splinter party will show up on GE nomination day.
When SBF first started, I held the exact same views. Many in this forums convinced me otherwise.
The PAP will not allow opposition to have a set of coherent views and that tactic has reaped fantastic results over the years. This is how they have done it;
1) Co-opting individuals with alternative views before they crystalise into an opposition or be attracted to the opposition. Here are 2 famous individuals - Ho Kwon Ping and Tharman. Both got hauled by ISD. Tharman even met with Tan Wah Piow and crowd for weekly meetings in London. Lets not forget James Fu, Jek Yuen Tong and company from the 1st generation. There are whole string of others.
2) Making it near impossible for those with politically alternative views to survive in corporate life as 65% of the economy is held by GLC and the like. Unless you don't have a family , its a hard sell. Ask Chee.
3) The media is completely controlled by the PAP. Even Singaporeans seeing TV broadcasts and reading the press have little idea what the opposition does in parliament. We did not even know about Lim Hwee Hua and 41% until GMS told us.
4) You require $13K just to be nominated and lets not forget other campaign expenses. I am sure its the highest amount in the world. There are also pre-requisites never seen in any other democracy, not even close such as GRC, suitability certificate etc.
5) Talk to the Election agents for opposition parties and find out how they need to queue up for rally sites, plus a host of other obstacles.
6) Lastly, all JBJ did was to flash a copy of the police report lodged by Tan Liang Hong at a campaignn rally and they finally bankrupted him. That alone was a huge deterrent. What are you going to say in a Rally if you are screwed in this manner.
In essence , the potential oppposition candidate pool is rather small, not very talented but very brave.
You might want to climb Mt Everest, which will be so much easier than looking for any semblence of coherence.
As one well regarded forummer put it - vote anyone including a bicycle thief to reduce PAP seats and get their attention.
GO ALL OUT TO KICK ALL THOSE BASTARDS OUT
ALL OF THEM
IF NOT FOR YOURSELF, THEN FOR THE FUTURE OF YOUR CHILDREN
THERE WILL NOT BE AN OBAMA AS PRESIDENT OF USA IF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT THERE WAS INTIMIDATED BY BEATINGS AND LYNCHINGS IN THE PAST.
THE TOBBLING OF LKY WILL NOT BE EASY, AND CAN BE BLOODY AS WELL.
THEY WILL NOT GIVE UP THE BILLIONS THAT THEY SUCKED FROM YOU AND CAN CONTINUE TO SCREW FROM YOU NOW AND IN FUTURE.
ONLY YOU HAVE THE POWER TO SAY 'NO MORE OF THAT' AND THROW EVERYONE OF THOSE BASTARDS OUT
Sinkies must organise themselves
Show that they got balls and can stand up to LKY intimidation.
Big money at stake.
Already 400++ billions got sucked and bled by LKY into his Temasick and GIC
EVEN IF NO ELECTIONS, SINKIES MUST SPEAK WITH ALL THEIR FRIENDS AND ALL THEY KNOW
STAND UP TO THAT BASTARD LKY AND PAP BLOODSUCKERS
STAND WITH ALL THOSE THAT FIGHT BASTARD LKY
OR STAND UP YOURSELF IN YOUR CONSTITUENCY
DONT BE BULLIED BY THAT FUCKING COWARD LKY USING HIS CORRUPT KANGAROO COURTS
I had heard that the PAP has ways that are too subtle for us to figure out, ways that help them to maintain their power and demolish their enemies.
But thanks for sharing some of them.
Politics is not my cup of tea. But as A/P Chan Heng Chee said when she was lecturing on political science - politics affect all of us, whether we like it or not.
For that reason, all of us still need to sip from that cup of tea. Though some drink the whole cup.
All I can say is that i will attend some of the election rallies and keep an open mind in casting my vote. Just one vote - not that it will make a difference - but one according to my conscience and not gst payout.
But thanks for sharing some of them.
Politics is not my cup of tea. But as A/P Chan Heng Chee said when she was lecturing on political science - politics affect all of us, whether we like it or not.
For that reason, all of us still need to sip from that cup of tea. Though some drink the whole cup.
All I can say is that i will attend some of the election rallies and keep an open mind in casting my vote. Just one vote - not that it will make a difference - but one according to my conscience and not gst payout.
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