Re: Condolences Si Simi?
More like doing so to avoid getting 'suan' by others.
The same goes for most things in real life.
More like doing so to avoid getting 'suan' by others.
The same goes for most things in real life.
-
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Air Asia flight bound for Singapore lost contact with air traffic
- Thread starter Belgarath
- Start date
Re: Condolences Si Simi?
I will wish Lee Hsien Loong 天增岁月娘增寿；春满乾坤爹满门.
When LKY kick bucket...i will get my 1000 clones to issue condolences here...whahahahha
I will wish Lee Hsien Loong 天增岁月娘增寿；春满乾坤爹满门.
Re: PAPsmearer's Air Asia flight disappearance theory
Actually pilots are trained to fly the plane first in the event of a crisis. Too many pilots crashed their planes paying attention to the instruments and trying to toruble shoot the problem when instead they should have made sure at least one pilot continues to fly the plane. In this case, the pilot and co-pilot might have been too busy to send a distress signal or mayday call because the plane was giving them all they can handle.
This is an issue endemic to Airbus planes. They are controlled by a joystick on the side of the seat instead of a yoke as in the Boeing planes. With the yoke, you can see the yoke moving and the angle of it will give an indication of the attitude of the plane. This visual clue is not available to the Airbus pilots. Perhaps they noticed too late, and only realized they were in a stall when they were losing speed and altitude at the same time. Anyway, the stall warning should have come on. But maybe they were confused by it, thought they were still climbing to reach the new cruise altitude but instead was actually stalling. The issue of ice building up in the pitot tubes is a good point. But most pitot tubes are heated anyway. Its possible to turn the heating off from the cockpit, but that would be an unusual move, I would think.
At 34,000 ft, its about 3 mins to impact with the ocean. that should be enough time for the pilots to recover from a stall. We will just have to wait for the accident report. They already located the wreck so the blackboxes can't be too far away.
Actually pilots are trained to fly the plane first in the event of a crisis. Too many pilots crashed their planes paying attention to the instruments and trying to toruble shoot the problem when instead they should have made sure at least one pilot continues to fly the plane. In this case, the pilot and co-pilot might have been too busy to send a distress signal or mayday call because the plane was giving them all they can handle.
This is an issue endemic to Airbus planes. They are controlled by a joystick on the side of the seat instead of a yoke as in the Boeing planes. With the yoke, you can see the yoke moving and the angle of it will give an indication of the attitude of the plane. This visual clue is not available to the Airbus pilots. Perhaps they noticed too late, and only realized they were in a stall when they were losing speed and altitude at the same time. Anyway, the stall warning should have come on. But maybe they were confused by it, thought they were still climbing to reach the new cruise altitude but instead was actually stalling. The issue of ice building up in the pitot tubes is a good point. But most pitot tubes are heated anyway. Its possible to turn the heating off from the cockpit, but that would be an unusual move, I would think.
At 34,000 ft, its about 3 mins to impact with the ocean. that should be enough time for the pilots to recover from a stall. We will just have to wait for the accident report. They already located the wreck so the blackboxes can't be too far away.
Re: PAPsmearer's Air Asia flight disappearance theory
Due to false readings on gauges fed by faulty pitot tubes (sensors outside airplane),
one pilot all along was pulling up on the stick to go up and away from terrain, while at the same time the other pilot was pushing down to gain speed to not stall and tumble out of the sky. Each pilot unaware of the other's sidestick (joystick) input.
The Airbus flight computer averaged out the two inputs and...
There was a call out for Airbus operators to replace the old Thales pitot tubes after that.
That was among the findings in the Air France Airbus crash.
Due to false readings on gauges fed by faulty pitot tubes (sensors outside airplane),
one pilot all along was pulling up on the stick to go up and away from terrain, while at the same time the other pilot was pushing down to gain speed to not stall and tumble out of the sky. Each pilot unaware of the other's sidestick (joystick) input.
The Airbus flight computer averaged out the two inputs and...
There was a call out for Airbus operators to replace the old Thales pitot tubes after that.
Re: Airasia Tragedy predicted in a China forum on 15 Dec 2014!
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy...ned_of_a_airaisa_disaster_13/?sort=confidence
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy...ned_of_a_airaisa_disaster_13/?sort=confidence
Re: Sinkapore wanna up Indons on Air Asia crash
Everyone's DEAD so what difference does it make what time contact was lost.
Everyone's DEAD so what difference does it make what time contact was lost.
Advocates demanding better tracking systems in light of time it took to find AirAsia flight
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 31 December, 2014, 5:34am
UPDATED : Wednesday, 31 December, 2014, 5:34am
Reuters in New York
Air traffic near where the flight went missing. Photo: SCMP
Air travel advocates are demanding global aviation authorities explain how the downed AirAsia jetliner with 162 people aboard took more than two days to locate when satellites and webcams monitor society's every move.
"It should be impossible for an airliner to go missing" in an age when people can track their phones and cars to within a few metres, said Paul Hudson, president of Flyersrights.org and a member of a US Federal Aviation Authority rule-making advisory committee.
The AirAsia pilots had been worried about the weather on Sunday and had sought permission to climb above threatening clouds, but were denied due to heavy air traffic. Minutes later, the jet was gone from the radar without issuing a distress signal.
The jet did not fly far from its last radar sighting and where its debris was located yesterday.
But the technology exists for more closely pinpointing the location of flights, tracking experts say, and this would have helped narrow the search area in the Java Sea. But those systems are not fully deployed.
Global air-traffic control systems are in various stages of upgrade from radar to GPS ground and satellite navigation amid disagreements between the airlines, governments and regulators about the standards, costs and any recommended implementation deadlines.
Hudson's group complains that failures going back more than a decade have led to many recommendations but little change in how planes are monitored. The group wants regulators to require better tracking.
Kevin Mitchell, founder and chairman of the Business Travel Coalition, an advocacy group for corporate travel departments, said the inability to quickly locate planes would likely have a "chilling effect". "We're pressing for making tracking a higher priority" for regulators, he said.
Charles Leocha, chairman of Travelers United, another advocacy group, predicted that despite the increased urgency, "a solution is at least a decade away" because of industry reluctance to incur costs and the difficulty setting equipment standards.
Better tracking and real-time flight-data monitoring became urgent issues after Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 went missing in March with 239 people on board. It is thought to have crashed in a remote part of the Indian Ocean.
Its disappearance prompted the International Civil Aviation Organisation, a United Nations agency, to set up a task force led by the International Air Transport Association on tracking systems. Its working group, representing airlines, pilots, air traffic controllers and airplane makers, already has agreed aircraft should be tracked to the nearest nautical mile.
Additional reporting by Associated Press
Re: Karma to Tony AirAsia Tony Fernandes - Your Plane Will Never Get Lost
No victim from crashed AirAsia plane was wearing life jacket, Indonesian official says
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 31 December, 2014, 9:29am
UPDATED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 8:14am
Reuters
Indonesian military personnel carry two coffins of unidentified victims found from the AirAsia crash site. Photo: AFP
An Indonesian search and rescue official said today that none of the bodies recovered so far from the crashed AirAsia jet had been wearing a life jacket.
"There is no victim that has been found wearing a life jacket," said Tatang Zaenudin, deputy head of operations at the national search and rescue agency.
"We found a body at 8.20am and a life jacket at 10.32am so there was a time difference. This is the latest information we have," he added.
The same official said earlier that one of the recovered bodies had been wearing a life jacket, prompting speculations that those on board had at least some time before the aircraft hit the water, or after it hit the water and before it sank.
The pilots did not issue a distress signal before the plane disappeared. The flight had failed to get permission to fly higher to avoid bad weather because of heavy air traffic.
Rescuers believe they have found the plane on the ocean floor off Borneo, after sonar detected a large, dark object about 30 to 50 metres beneath the water's surface, near where debris and bodies were found.
But bad weather and strong currents were sending wreckage drifting far from the crash site and hampering search efforts.
National Search and Rescue Agency chief Vice Marshall Bambang Soelistyo said that so far, the fuselage had not been found despite the sonar images indicating a bulky object on the sea floor.
The commander of the Bung Tomo warship which recovered some debris said they lifted 28 items from the water. “There were snacks, instant porridge, and three umbrellas,” Colonel Yayan said in a local TV interview.
“It seems all the wreckage found has drifted more than 50 kilometres from yesterday’s location,” said Vice Air Marshal Sunarbowo Sandi, search and rescue coordinator in Pangkalan Bun on Borneo island, the closest town to the site. “We are expecting those bodies will end up on beaches.”
The bodies will be sent for identification at a police hospital in Surabaya. Relatives have sent blood samples for DNA tests. Photo: AFP
Soelistyo also told a press conference that of the total seven bodies - four men and three women - one of them was wearing a flight attendant’s uniform.
The first two corpses, placed in simple wooden boxes topped with flowers, were unloaded in Pangkalan Bun.
Most of the people on board were Indonesians. No survivors have been found.
Authorities in Surabaya, the plane's take-off point, were making preparations to receive and identify bodies, including arranging 130 ambulances to take victims to a police hospital and collecting DNA from relatives.
”After being cleaned up and prayed for, we will place the bodies into coffins and fly them to Surabaya for identification,” Soelistyo said.
Earlier reports tha 40 bodies had been recovered were later put down to a miscommunication by navy staff.
An Indonesian search and rescue team carries a dead body on a stretcher in Surabaya, where they will be identified. Photo: AFP
Indonesian Air Force personnel carry a suitcase thought to originate from Air Asia flight QZ8501 in Central Kalimantan, Indonesia on Tuesday. Photo: Xinhua
The identification process will be carried out by a disaster victim investigation team of the East Java Police at HS Samsoeri Mertojoso Police Hospital in Surabaya, he added.
About 125 family members had planned to travel to Pangkalan Bun, 160 kilometres from the area where bodies were first spotted, to start identifying their loved ones. However, Surabaya airport general manager Trikora Hardjo later said the trip was cancelled after authorities suggested they stay to avoid slowing down the operation.
Instead, some relatives gave blood for DNA tests in Surabaya, where the bodies will be transported, and submitted photos of their loved ones along with identifying information, such as tattoos or birth marks that could help make the process easier.
Ships and planes had been scouring the Java Sea for Flight QZ8501 since Sunday, when it lost contact during bad weather about 40 minutes into its flight from the Indonesian city of Surabaya to Singapore.
A member of Indonesian search and rescue team shows the possible location of AirAsia flight QZ8501 at Juanda International Airport in Surabaya. Photo: Xinhua
“We are praying it is the plane so the evacuation can be done quickly,” Hernanto said.
“As soon as the weather is clear, the bodies will be brought to Pangkalan Bun,” the town with the nearest airstrip to the crash site, said Soelistyo.
Officials said waves two to three metres high and winds were hampering the hunt for wreckage and preventing divers from searching the crash zone.
Indonesia’s meteorology and geophysics agency predicted that the conditions would worsen, with more intense rains, through Friday
Helicopters were largely grounded, but ships were still scouring the area.
Forty-seven frogmen of the navy and 20 others from the National Search and Rescue Agency were to be dispatched by Wednesday to the crash site for search efforts, he said.
Japan said today it is sending two destroyers and three helicopters to aid in the search at Indonesia's request.
The black box flight data and cockpit voice recorder have yet to be found in the relatively shallow waters of the Java Sea.
Online discussion among pilots has centred on unconfirmed secondary radar data from Malaysia that suggested the aircraft was climbing at a speed of 353 knots, about 100 knots too slow, and that it might have stalled.
“The fact that the debris appears fairly contained suggests the aircraft broke up when it hit the water, rather than in the air,” said Neil Hansford, a former pilot and chairman of consultancy firm Strategic Aviation Solutions.
An oxygen tube found near the suspected crash site. Photo: Xinhua
Nearly all the passengers from Indonesia were frequent visitors to Singapore, particularly on holidays.
But it was 13-year-old passenger Adrian Fernando’s first trip to the city-state and was supposed to be a fun vacation with his aunt, uncle and cousin before he went back to school.
“He is my only son,” said mother Linca Gonimasela, 39, who could not join them on the flight because of work. “At first, he didn’t want to go, but later on he was persuaded to join them for the New Year holiday.”
Just one Surabaya church — Manwar Sharon Church — lost 41 members in the crash.
Indonesian President Joko Widodo said his priority was retrieving the bodies. “I feel a deep loss over this disaster and pray for the families to be given fortitude and strength,” Widodo said.
Widodo, speaking in Surabaya on Tuesday after grim images of the scene in the Java Sea were broadcast on television, said AirAsia would pay an immediate advance of money to relatives, many of whom collapsed in grief when they saw the television pictures from the search.
AirAsia Chief Executive Tony Fernandes, who has described the crash as his “worst nightmare”, was rushing to Surabaya where relatives of the missing are gathered at a crisis centre in Indonesia’s second-largest city.
About 30 ships and 21 aircraft from Indonesia, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea and the United States have been involved in the search.
Relatives of passengers of AirAsia Flight 8501 cry after visiting the crisis centre at the airport in Surabaya, where authorities have been keeping them abreast of the latest developments. Photo: AP
Singapore said it was sending two underwater beacon detectors to try to pick up pings from the black boxes, which contain cockpit voice and flight data recorders.
The United States said its missile-guided destroyer USS Sampson and combat ship USS Fort Worth were awaiting instructions from the Indonesian search command on the recovery operation.
Investigators are focusing initially on whether the crew took too long to request permission to climb, or could have ascended on their own initiative earlier, said a source close to the probe, adding that poor weather could have played a part as well.
A Qantas pilot with 25 years of experience flying in the region said the discovery of the debris field relatively close to the last known radar plot of the plane pointed to an aerodynamic stall, most likely due to bad weather. One possibility is that the plane’s instruments iced up in a tropical thunderstorm, giving the pilots inaccurate readings.
The lack of a distress call indicated the pilots may have realised too late they were in trouble and were too busy struggling to control the aircraft to issue a call, the Qantas pilot said.
The Indonesian pilot, a former Air Force jet fighter pilot with 6,100 flying hours under his belt, was experienced and the plane last underwent maintenance in mid-November, said the airline, which is 49 per cent owned by Malaysia-based budget carrier AirAsia.
Indian sand artist Sudarsan Pattnaik gives the final touches to a sand sculpture portraying two missing aircraft, AirAsia QZ8501 and Malayasia Airlines MH370 on a Bay of Bengal beach. Photo: AFP
Three airline disasters involving Malaysian-affiliated carriers in less than a year have dented confidence in the country’s aviation industry and spooked travellers across the region.
Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 went missing in March on a trip from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 passengers and crew and has not been found. On July 17, the same airline’s Flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.
In an additional incident, an AirAsia plane from Manila overshot the runway on landing at Kalibo in the central Philippines on Tuesday. No one was hurt.
On board Flight QZ8501 were 155 Indonesians, three South Koreans, and one person each from Singapore, Malaysia and Britain. The co-pilot was French.
The AirAsia group, including affiliates in Thailand, the Philippines and India, had not suffered a crash since its Malaysian budget operations began in 2002.
With additional reporting from Associated Press and Agence France-Presse
No victim from crashed AirAsia plane was wearing life jacket, Indonesian official says
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 31 December, 2014, 9:29am
UPDATED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 8:14am
Reuters
Indonesian military personnel carry two coffins of unidentified victims found from the AirAsia crash site. Photo: AFP
An Indonesian search and rescue official said today that none of the bodies recovered so far from the crashed AirAsia jet had been wearing a life jacket.
"There is no victim that has been found wearing a life jacket," said Tatang Zaenudin, deputy head of operations at the national search and rescue agency.
"We found a body at 8.20am and a life jacket at 10.32am so there was a time difference. This is the latest information we have," he added.
The same official said earlier that one of the recovered bodies had been wearing a life jacket, prompting speculations that those on board had at least some time before the aircraft hit the water, or after it hit the water and before it sank.
The pilots did not issue a distress signal before the plane disappeared. The flight had failed to get permission to fly higher to avoid bad weather because of heavy air traffic.
Rescuers believe they have found the plane on the ocean floor off Borneo, after sonar detected a large, dark object about 30 to 50 metres beneath the water's surface, near where debris and bodies were found.
But bad weather and strong currents were sending wreckage drifting far from the crash site and hampering search efforts.
National Search and Rescue Agency chief Vice Marshall Bambang Soelistyo said that so far, the fuselage had not been found despite the sonar images indicating a bulky object on the sea floor.
The commander of the Bung Tomo warship which recovered some debris said they lifted 28 items from the water. “There were snacks, instant porridge, and three umbrellas,” Colonel Yayan said in a local TV interview.
“It seems all the wreckage found has drifted more than 50 kilometres from yesterday’s location,” said Vice Air Marshal Sunarbowo Sandi, search and rescue coordinator in Pangkalan Bun on Borneo island, the closest town to the site. “We are expecting those bodies will end up on beaches.”
The bodies will be sent for identification at a police hospital in Surabaya. Relatives have sent blood samples for DNA tests. Photo: AFP
Soelistyo also told a press conference that of the total seven bodies - four men and three women - one of them was wearing a flight attendant’s uniform.
The first two corpses, placed in simple wooden boxes topped with flowers, were unloaded in Pangkalan Bun.
Most of the people on board were Indonesians. No survivors have been found.
Authorities in Surabaya, the plane's take-off point, were making preparations to receive and identify bodies, including arranging 130 ambulances to take victims to a police hospital and collecting DNA from relatives.
”After being cleaned up and prayed for, we will place the bodies into coffins and fly them to Surabaya for identification,” Soelistyo said.
Earlier reports tha 40 bodies had been recovered were later put down to a miscommunication by navy staff.
An Indonesian search and rescue team carries a dead body on a stretcher in Surabaya, where they will be identified. Photo: AFP
Indonesian Air Force personnel carry a suitcase thought to originate from Air Asia flight QZ8501 in Central Kalimantan, Indonesia on Tuesday. Photo: Xinhua
The identification process will be carried out by a disaster victim investigation team of the East Java Police at HS Samsoeri Mertojoso Police Hospital in Surabaya, he added.
About 125 family members had planned to travel to Pangkalan Bun, 160 kilometres from the area where bodies were first spotted, to start identifying their loved ones. However, Surabaya airport general manager Trikora Hardjo later said the trip was cancelled after authorities suggested they stay to avoid slowing down the operation.
Instead, some relatives gave blood for DNA tests in Surabaya, where the bodies will be transported, and submitted photos of their loved ones along with identifying information, such as tattoos or birth marks that could help make the process easier.
Ships and planes had been scouring the Java Sea for Flight QZ8501 since Sunday, when it lost contact during bad weather about 40 minutes into its flight from the Indonesian city of Surabaya to Singapore.
A member of Indonesian search and rescue team shows the possible location of AirAsia flight QZ8501 at Juanda International Airport in Surabaya. Photo: Xinhua
“We are praying it is the plane so the evacuation can be done quickly,” Hernanto said.
“As soon as the weather is clear, the bodies will be brought to Pangkalan Bun,” the town with the nearest airstrip to the crash site, said Soelistyo.
Officials said waves two to three metres high and winds were hampering the hunt for wreckage and preventing divers from searching the crash zone.
Indonesia’s meteorology and geophysics agency predicted that the conditions would worsen, with more intense rains, through Friday
Helicopters were largely grounded, but ships were still scouring the area.
Forty-seven frogmen of the navy and 20 others from the National Search and Rescue Agency were to be dispatched by Wednesday to the crash site for search efforts, he said.
Japan said today it is sending two destroyers and three helicopters to aid in the search at Indonesia's request.
The black box flight data and cockpit voice recorder have yet to be found in the relatively shallow waters of the Java Sea.
Online discussion among pilots has centred on unconfirmed secondary radar data from Malaysia that suggested the aircraft was climbing at a speed of 353 knots, about 100 knots too slow, and that it might have stalled.
“The fact that the debris appears fairly contained suggests the aircraft broke up when it hit the water, rather than in the air,” said Neil Hansford, a former pilot and chairman of consultancy firm Strategic Aviation Solutions.
An oxygen tube found near the suspected crash site. Photo: Xinhua
Nearly all the passengers from Indonesia were frequent visitors to Singapore, particularly on holidays.
But it was 13-year-old passenger Adrian Fernando’s first trip to the city-state and was supposed to be a fun vacation with his aunt, uncle and cousin before he went back to school.
“He is my only son,” said mother Linca Gonimasela, 39, who could not join them on the flight because of work. “At first, he didn’t want to go, but later on he was persuaded to join them for the New Year holiday.”
Just one Surabaya church — Manwar Sharon Church — lost 41 members in the crash.
Indonesian President Joko Widodo said his priority was retrieving the bodies. “I feel a deep loss over this disaster and pray for the families to be given fortitude and strength,” Widodo said.
Widodo, speaking in Surabaya on Tuesday after grim images of the scene in the Java Sea were broadcast on television, said AirAsia would pay an immediate advance of money to relatives, many of whom collapsed in grief when they saw the television pictures from the search.
AirAsia Chief Executive Tony Fernandes, who has described the crash as his “worst nightmare”, was rushing to Surabaya where relatives of the missing are gathered at a crisis centre in Indonesia’s second-largest city.
About 30 ships and 21 aircraft from Indonesia, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea and the United States have been involved in the search.
Relatives of passengers of AirAsia Flight 8501 cry after visiting the crisis centre at the airport in Surabaya, where authorities have been keeping them abreast of the latest developments. Photo: AP
Singapore said it was sending two underwater beacon detectors to try to pick up pings from the black boxes, which contain cockpit voice and flight data recorders.
The United States said its missile-guided destroyer USS Sampson and combat ship USS Fort Worth were awaiting instructions from the Indonesian search command on the recovery operation.
Investigators are focusing initially on whether the crew took too long to request permission to climb, or could have ascended on their own initiative earlier, said a source close to the probe, adding that poor weather could have played a part as well.
A Qantas pilot with 25 years of experience flying in the region said the discovery of the debris field relatively close to the last known radar plot of the plane pointed to an aerodynamic stall, most likely due to bad weather. One possibility is that the plane’s instruments iced up in a tropical thunderstorm, giving the pilots inaccurate readings.
The lack of a distress call indicated the pilots may have realised too late they were in trouble and were too busy struggling to control the aircraft to issue a call, the Qantas pilot said.
The Indonesian pilot, a former Air Force jet fighter pilot with 6,100 flying hours under his belt, was experienced and the plane last underwent maintenance in mid-November, said the airline, which is 49 per cent owned by Malaysia-based budget carrier AirAsia.
Indian sand artist Sudarsan Pattnaik gives the final touches to a sand sculpture portraying two missing aircraft, AirAsia QZ8501 and Malayasia Airlines MH370 on a Bay of Bengal beach. Photo: AFP
Three airline disasters involving Malaysian-affiliated carriers in less than a year have dented confidence in the country’s aviation industry and spooked travellers across the region.
Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 went missing in March on a trip from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 passengers and crew and has not been found. On July 17, the same airline’s Flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.
In an additional incident, an AirAsia plane from Manila overshot the runway on landing at Kalibo in the central Philippines on Tuesday. No one was hurt.
On board Flight QZ8501 were 155 Indonesians, three South Koreans, and one person each from Singapore, Malaysia and Britain. The co-pilot was French.
The AirAsia group, including affiliates in Thailand, the Philippines and India, had not suffered a crash since its Malaysian budget operations began in 2002.
With additional reporting from Associated Press and Agence France-Presse
Re: Karma to Tony AirAsia Tony Fernandes - Your Plane Will Never Get Lost
Crowded skies in Southeast Asia put pressure on pilots, air traffic control
Weighing risks in volatile weather becomes more difficult, pilots say, in a region that has seen explosive growth in its budget carriers
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 3:03am
UPDATED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 3:03am
A Lion Air plane lies in water after crashing in Bali. Photo: AFP
The sheer volume of flights in the skies over Southeast Asia is putting pressure on outdated air traffic control and on pilots to take risky unilateral action in crises such as that possibly faced by the AirAsia Flight QZ8501.
Pilots who have flown the Indonesia to Singapore route say it's not unusual for delays to requests to increase altitude to avoid bad weather - and for requests to eventually be rejected due to the number of other planes in the area.
That leaves pilots flying in a region of volatile weather conditions facing a high-risk challenge: when to take matters into their own hands and declare an emergency, allowing them to take action without getting permission from air traffic control.
Most consider that step, which requires them to broadcast a wideband call to other aircraft in the area and that will later be closely scrutinised by regulators, a last resort.
"As a professional pilot, you are obligated to think quickly," a pilot for Quantas Airways who has 25 years experience in the region said.
"If you've signed for the plane, as we put it, you've signed for potentially 300 passengers and millions of dollars worth of aircraft; that's a multibillion dollar liability. Part of the job is to balance the risk and make a snap decision," he said.
Weighing those risks has become increasingly difficult in Southeast Asia, an area that has seen explosive growth in budget air travel in recent years.
The number of passengers carried annually across Asia-Pacific has jumped by two-thirds in the past five years to more than one billion, according to the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation. Budget airlines, which only took to the skies around a dozen years ago, today make up about 60 percent of Southeast Asia's seat capacity. AirAsia and Indonesia's Lion Air have placed record orders with the main plane makers.
Boeing predicts the region's airlines will need about 13,000 new planes over the next two decades, and Airbus expects Asia-Pacific to drive demand over that period."There are certain flight corridors that are over-stressed due to traffic," said a former Singapore Airlines pilot with a decade's flying experience at the carrier. "One certainly would be the Indonesia/Singapore flights which are flown by many different companies and aircraft types at a variety of altitudes and speeds."
Pilots say that causes a logistical nightmare for the region's air traffic control (ATC), particularly outside of the high-tech hubs such as Singapore.
"As the airways become more crowded, it takes ATC longer to coordinate and give clearances such as higher altitudes and weather deviations," the former SIA pilot said.
This can be critical in a region where weather conditions can change very quickly, with strong winds and tropical thunderstorms posing time-critical challenges for pilots.
The circumstances around the AirAsia crash are not yet known, but the investigators and the airline's chief Tony Fernandes have pointed to the changeable weather as being a significant factor.
The Association of Asia Pacific Airlines said last month that while airlines were investing heavily in fuel-efficient planes to meet rising demand, there was growing concern about the need to also invest in related infrastructure, such as airport terminals, runways and various air navigation services.To keep aircraft travelling in a flight corridor at a safe distance from each other, air traffic controllers in Indonesia employ procedural separation - where they use pilots' radio reports to calculate their position relative to other traffic.
That takes longer than the more sophisticated radar separation used in Singapore and elsewhere in the world, which allows a controller to more quickly take stock of radar returns from all aircraft in the area.
Pilots said critical decisions often come down to experience.
"In my opinion, if I don't get permission (to change course) and there's weather ahead, I'll just deviate and deal with the authorities later," said another former SIA pilot.
Crowded skies in Southeast Asia put pressure on pilots, air traffic control
Weighing risks in volatile weather becomes more difficult, pilots say, in a region that has seen explosive growth in its budget carriers
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 3:03am
UPDATED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 3:03am
A Lion Air plane lies in water after crashing in Bali. Photo: AFP
The sheer volume of flights in the skies over Southeast Asia is putting pressure on outdated air traffic control and on pilots to take risky unilateral action in crises such as that possibly faced by the AirAsia Flight QZ8501.
Pilots who have flown the Indonesia to Singapore route say it's not unusual for delays to requests to increase altitude to avoid bad weather - and for requests to eventually be rejected due to the number of other planes in the area.
That leaves pilots flying in a region of volatile weather conditions facing a high-risk challenge: when to take matters into their own hands and declare an emergency, allowing them to take action without getting permission from air traffic control.
Most consider that step, which requires them to broadcast a wideband call to other aircraft in the area and that will later be closely scrutinised by regulators, a last resort.
"As a professional pilot, you are obligated to think quickly," a pilot for Quantas Airways who has 25 years experience in the region said.
"If you've signed for the plane, as we put it, you've signed for potentially 300 passengers and millions of dollars worth of aircraft; that's a multibillion dollar liability. Part of the job is to balance the risk and make a snap decision," he said.
Weighing those risks has become increasingly difficult in Southeast Asia, an area that has seen explosive growth in budget air travel in recent years.
The number of passengers carried annually across Asia-Pacific has jumped by two-thirds in the past five years to more than one billion, according to the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation. Budget airlines, which only took to the skies around a dozen years ago, today make up about 60 percent of Southeast Asia's seat capacity. AirAsia and Indonesia's Lion Air have placed record orders with the main plane makers.
Boeing predicts the region's airlines will need about 13,000 new planes over the next two decades, and Airbus expects Asia-Pacific to drive demand over that period."There are certain flight corridors that are over-stressed due to traffic," said a former Singapore Airlines pilot with a decade's flying experience at the carrier. "One certainly would be the Indonesia/Singapore flights which are flown by many different companies and aircraft types at a variety of altitudes and speeds."
Pilots say that causes a logistical nightmare for the region's air traffic control (ATC), particularly outside of the high-tech hubs such as Singapore.
"As the airways become more crowded, it takes ATC longer to coordinate and give clearances such as higher altitudes and weather deviations," the former SIA pilot said.
This can be critical in a region where weather conditions can change very quickly, with strong winds and tropical thunderstorms posing time-critical challenges for pilots.
The circumstances around the AirAsia crash are not yet known, but the investigators and the airline's chief Tony Fernandes have pointed to the changeable weather as being a significant factor.
The Association of Asia Pacific Airlines said last month that while airlines were investing heavily in fuel-efficient planes to meet rising demand, there was growing concern about the need to also invest in related infrastructure, such as airport terminals, runways and various air navigation services.To keep aircraft travelling in a flight corridor at a safe distance from each other, air traffic controllers in Indonesia employ procedural separation - where they use pilots' radio reports to calculate their position relative to other traffic.
That takes longer than the more sophisticated radar separation used in Singapore and elsewhere in the world, which allows a controller to more quickly take stock of radar returns from all aircraft in the area.
Pilots said critical decisions often come down to experience.
"In my opinion, if I don't get permission (to change course) and there's weather ahead, I'll just deviate and deal with the authorities later," said another former SIA pilot.
AirAsia flight 'made unbelievably steep climb before crash'
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 3:03am
UPDATED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 3:03am
Reuters in Surabaya
Indonesian military forces carry a victim's coffin. Photo: AFP
Radar data being examined by investigators appears to show the doomed AirAsia plane made an "unbelievably" steep climb before it crashed - possibly pushing it beyond the Airbus A320-200's limits, according to a source.
The data was transmitted before flight QZ8501 disappeared from the screens of air traffic controllers in Jakarta on Sunday, according to the unnamed source.
"So far, the numbers taken by the radar are unbelievably high. This rate of climb is very high, too high. It appears to be beyond the performance envelope of the aircraft," he said.
It comes as conflicting reports emerged yesterday over whether one of the bodies recovered from the sea was wearing a life jacket.
Tatang Zaenudin, an official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency, had initially said one of the bodies found had been wearing a life jacket.
But he later said no victim had been recovered with a life jacket on.
Rescuers believe they have found the plane on the ocean floor off Borneo, after sonar detected a large, dark object beneath waters near where debris and some bodies were found on the surface.
Ships and planes have been scouring the Java Sea for the plane since Sunday, when it lost contact with air traffic controllers following a request to increase altitude during bad weather about 40 minutes into its flight from the Indonesian city of Surabaya to Singapore with 162 people on board.
Nine bodies have been recovered from the sea, some fully clothed, which could indicate the plane was intact when it hit the water. That would support a theory that it suffered an aerodynamic stall.
Two bodies, in coffins bedecked with flowers and marked 001 and 002, arrived on an air force plane in Surabaya yesterday, with soldiers acting as pall bearers. Most of those on board the crashed six-year-old AirAsia plane were Indonesians.
A spokesman for the head of the search and rescue agency in Surabaya said rescuers believed they had found the plane on the sea bed in waters 30-50 metres deep. The black box flight data and cockpit voice recorder has not been found.
Strong wind and waves hampered the search and with visibility at less than a kilometre the air operation was called off yesterday afternoon.
Colleagues and friends of the Indonesian captain on board have described him as an experienced and professional pilot.
No 'pings' from black box detected in underwater search for downed AirAsia plane
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 11:13am
UPDATED : Thursday, 01 January, 2015, 3:43pm
Reuters in Surabaya
An Indonesian search and rescue team unloads the body of a victim as rain starts to pour in Pangkalan Bun. Photo: AFP
Authorities revealed they have not heard any signals from the black boxes of downed flight AirAsia QZ8501, as ships and air patrol raced to find the wreckage amid concerns the weather might deteriorate again and strong currents would send the debris further adrift.
None of the tell-tale black box "pings" has been detected during the search in the relatively shallow waters of the Java Sea, an official said.
The devices - a cockpit voice recorder and flight-data recorder - send out continuous signals, for 30 days, in the event of an accident to help rescuers find a plane.
The search focused on a large, dark object on the ocean floor, lying just 30-50 metres deep, that was detected by sonar. The morning's clear skies were short-lived as rough weather came again, leaving divers unable to resume full-scale operations.
Vice Air Marshal Sunarbowo Sandi, search and rescue coordinator in Pangkalan Bun, the closest town to the targeted area, said he was hopeful divers would soon be able to explore the wreckage site.
“It’s possible the bodies are in the fuselage,” he said. “So it’s a race now against time and weather.”
Indonesian police carry parts of an airplane recovered from the sea to a holding point at the port of Pangkalan Bun. Photo: AP
Investigators are working on a theory that the plane went into an aerodynamic stall as it climbed steeply to avoid a storm about 40 minutes into the flight.
A source close to the probe into what happened said radar data appeared to show that the aircraft made an “unbelievably” steep climb before it crashed, possibly pushing the Airbus A320-200 beyond its limits.
Investigators are working on a theory that it went into aerodynamic stall as the pilot climbed steeply to avoid a storm.
“So far, the numbers taken by the radar are unbelievably high. This rate of climb is very high, too high. It appears to be beyond the performance envelope of the aircraft,” said the source, who declined to be named.
But the source said more information was needed to come to a firm conclusion.
“We’re making an all-out effort to search for bodies and locate the fuselage,” search and rescue official Sunarbowo Sandi said from Pangkalan Bun, a town on Borneo with the nearest airstrip to the crash site.
“Ten investigators from the national transport safety committee (KNKT) along with two French and two Singapore investigators will join the search today to locate the fuselage,” he said.
Indonesian Special Forces prepare for a recovery mission for AirAsia flight QZ8501 at the airport in Pangkalan Bun. Photo: Reuters
“We hope that an underwater beacon will be able to detect the weak signal transmitted by the ELT [emergency locator transmitter],” he added.
Singapore has sent an unmanned submersible vehicle that could scan objects on the sea floor.
After bad weather and strong currents hampered Wednesday's search, the skies over Pangkalan Bun air base near the site cleared today and the seas calmed, raising hopes that the search effort could be stepped up.
So far, at least seven bodies have been recovered. An eighth body was reported found but not confirmed.
Some of the bodies recovered so far have been fully clothed, including a flight attendant still wearing her AirAsia uniform. That could indicate the Airbus was intact when it hit the water and also support the aerodynamic stall theory.
The Airbus A320-200, carrying 162 people, fell from the sky while trying to climb above stormy weather early on Sunday, during a flight from the Indonesian city of Surabaya to Singapore.
The plane was travelling at 9,753 metres and had asked to fly at 11,582 metres to avoid bad weather. When air traffic controllers granted permission for a rise to 10,363 metres a few minutes later, they received no response. The pilots did not issue a distress signal.
Online discussion among pilots has centred on unconfirmed secondary radar data from Malaysia that suggested the aircraft was climbing at a speed of 353 knots, about 100 knots too slow, and that it might have stalled.
Strong wind and waves hampered the search, and with visibility at less than a kilometre, the air operation was called off yesterday, though ships continued scouring the relatively shallow waters of the Java Sea.
A team of 47 Indonesian Navy divers were not able to fly out to warships at the crash site yesterday. “They will try again this morning,” said Siahala Alamsyah, a naval officer involved in the search.
A fourth body is brought to a police hospital for identification with the help of relatives' DNA. Photo: Xinhua
Bodies recovered from the Java Sea are being taken in numbered coffins to Surabaya, where relatives of the victims have gathered, for identification. Authorities have been collecting DNA from the relatives to help identify the bodies.
Four bodies have so far been transferred to land from warships. Three more are set to be moved today.
“Three helicopters are getting ready to hoist three remaining bodies from the navy ship to Pangkalan Bun,” Sandi said, adding that rescuers managed to bring the first two bodies to the town last night.
Most of the 162 people on board were Indonesians. No survivors have been found.
Relatives, many of whom collapsed in grief when they saw the first grim television pictures confirming their fears on Tuesday, held prayers at a crisis centre at Surabaya airport.
The Indonesian captain, a former air force fighter pilot, had 6,100 flying hours under his belt and the plane last underwent maintenance in mid-November, according to the airline, which is 49 per cent owned by Malaysia-based budget carrier AirAsia.
Mourners hold candles at a vigil for the victims of the AirAsia crash early on New Year's Day. Photo: AP
The co-pilot was French and had 2,275 hours of flight experience.
Out of the 155 passengers onboard, all were Indonesian save for three South Koreans, and one each from Singapore, Malaysia and Britain.
Three airline disasters involving Malaysian-affiliated carriers in less than a year have dented confidence in the country’s aviation industry and spooked travellers.
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 went missing in March on a trip from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 passengers and crew and has not been found. On July 17, the same airline’s Flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.
On board Flight QZ8501 were 155 Indonesians, three South Koreans, and one person each from Singapore, Malaysia and Britain. The co-pilot was French.
The AirAsia group, including affiliates in Thailand, the Philippines and India, had not suffered a crash since its Malaysian budget operations began in 2002.
With additional reporting from Agence France-Presse
Closed fist, no smirking smile. They look more professional than Pinoy enforcement agency.
Search for missing AirAsia black box recorders could 'take a week'
By Fergus Jensen and Gayatri Suroyo
PANGKALAN BUN/SURABAYA, Indonesia Thu Jan 1, 2015 4:28am EST
Indonesian military personnel carry caskets containing the remains of passengers onboard AirAsia flight QZ8501, recovered off the coast of Borneo, at a military base in Surabaya January 1, 2015. REUTERS-Athit Perawongmetha
(Reuters) - Divers waiting to inspect the possible wreck of an AirAsia Indonesia jet off Borneo were unable to resume operations because of heavy seas on Thursday and an aviation official said it could take a week to find the black box flight recorders.
Crews were on standby to descend to a large object detected by sonar on the ocean floor, lying just 30-50 meters (100-165 feet) deep. Rescuers believe it is the Airbus A320-200, which was carrying 162 people when it crashed on Sunday en route from the city of Surabaya to Singapore.
"I am hoping that the latest information is correct and aircraft has been found," airline boss Tony Fernandes tweeted on Thursday. "Please all hope together. This is so important."
But Toos Sanitiyoso, an air safety investigator with the National Committee for Transportation Safety, said the black box flight data and voice recorders could be found within a week, suggesting there was still doubt over the plane's location.
"The main thing is to find the main area of the wreckage and then the black box," he told reporters.
None of the tell-tale black box "pings" had been detected, he said.
"There are two steps of finding the black box. One is we try to find the largest portion of the wreckage," he said.
Divers would not be sent into the water without a target, search official Sunarbowo Sandi said.
"They wouldn't go in without it," he said. "The divers are not searching."
Frogman commander Lieutenant Edi Tirkayasa said the weather was making the operation extra hard.
"What is most difficult is finding the location where the plane fell - checking whether the aircraft is really there," he told Reuters.
"This is very difficult even with sophisticated equipment. With weather like this, who knows? We are still hopeful and optimistic that they'll find it. They must."
Investigators are working on a theory that the plane stalled as it climbed steeply to avoid a storm about 40 minutes into the flight.
So far, at least seven bodies have been recovered from waters near the suspected crash site, along with debris such a suitcase, an emergency slide and a life jacket.
The bodies are being taken in numbered coffins to Surabaya, where relatives of the victims have gathered, for identification. Authorities have been collecting DNA from relatives to help identify the bodies.
"We are asking universities to work with us - from the whole country," said Anton Castilani, executive director at Indonesia's disaster victims identification committee.
Most of those on board were Indonesians. No survivors have been found.
Relatives, many of whom collapsed in grief when they saw the first grim television pictures confirming their fears on Tuesday, held prayers at a crisis center at Surabaya airport.
"UNBELIEVABLY" STEEP CLIMB
The plane was traveling at 32,000 feet (9,753 meters) and had asked to fly at 38,000 feet to avoid bad weather. When air traffic controllers granted permission for a rise to 34,000 feet a few minutes later, they received no response.
A source close to the probe into what happened said radar data appeared to show that the aircraft made an "unbelievably" steep climb before it crashed, possibly pushing it beyond the Airbus A320's limits.
"It appears to be beyond the performance envelope of the aircraft," he said.
The source, who declined to be identified, added that more information was needed to come to a firm conclusion.
Online discussion among pilots has centered on unconfirmed secondary radar data from Malaysia that suggested the aircraft was climbing at a speed of 353 knots, about 100 knots too slow, and that it might have stalled.
Some of the bodies recovered so far have been fully clothed, including a flight attendant in her uniform. That could indicate the Airbus was intact when it hit the water and also support the aerodynamic stall theory.
The Indonesian captain, a former air force fighter pilot, had 6,100 flying hours under his belt and the plane last underwent maintenance in mid-November, according to AirAsia Indonesia, which is 49-percent owned by Malaysia-based budget carrier AirAsia.
Three airline disasters involving Malaysian-affiliated carriers in less than a year have dented confidence in the country's aviation industry and spooked travelers.
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 disappeared in March en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 passengers and crew and has not been found. On July 17, the same airline's Flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board.
On board Flight QZ8501 were 155 Indonesians, three South Koreans, and one person each from Singapore, Malaysia and Britain. The co-pilot was French.
The AirAsia group, including affiliates in Thailand, the Philippines and India, had not suffered a crash since its Malaysian budget operations began in 2002.
Separately, an AirAsia Indonesia pilot was taken off flying duties on the route from Jakarta to the holiday island of Bali on Thursday after a urine test indicated traces of morphine.
"From our early interview with the pilot, he said he was hospitalized for typhus and was infused from Dec 26-29," airline CEO Sunu Widyatmoko told reporters.
"Until today, he still consumes medication. One of them is Actifed (a cough syrup). In a narcotics test, cough medication could cause the false alarm of drug intake."
(Additional reporting by Michael Taylor, Cindy Silviana, Wilda Asmarini, Gayatri Suroyo, Kanupriya Kapoor, Nicholas Owen and Charlotte Greenfield in JAKARTA/SURABAYA, Jane Wardell in SYDNEY and Anshuman Daga in SINGAPORE; Writing by Nick Macfie; Editing by Mark Bendeich and Kim Coghill)
AirAsia flight QZ8501: First victim positively identified as Surabaya teacher
Date January 1, 2015 - 9:28PM
The mother of Hayati Lutfiah Hamid, centre, cries upon receiving her daughter's remains at the police hospital in Surabaya. Photo: AFP
Disaster Victim Identification crews have positively identified victim 001 of AirAsia's crashed flight QZ8501.
Hayati Lutfiah Hamid, 47, an elementary school teacher from Surabaya, was travelling to Singapore for a holiday with her daughter, husband and mother-in-law when the plane crashed with 162 people on board on December 28.
BODIES ARRIVE: Indonesian soldiers carry coffins containing victims of the AirAsia flight QZ8501 crash at the Indonesian Air Force Military Base in Surabaya. Photo: Getty Images
Shortly after the positive identification, an ambulance backed up to the police morgue in Surabaya, the police chief said a few words, and Ms Hayati's body and possessions were handed over first to AirAsia chief executive Sunu Widyatmoko, who handed them directly to Ms Hayati's uncle, her closest living relative.
At that moment, the heavens opened and rain belted down as two female relatives stood pouring tears at the rear of the police station. They were comforted by the mayor of Surabaya, Tri Rismaharini.
Four more bodies arrived in Surabaya on Thursday, meaning that five are at the police morgue awaiting identification — two females and three males. One more female of unknown age has been recovered from the ocean and is awaiting an airlift from Pangkalanbun, Borneo, the closest port to the crash site, to Surabaya.
Members of Indonesian search and rescue team carry the body of a victim of the AirAsia flight QZ8501 crash at Iskandar Airbase on January 01, 2015 in Pangkalan Bun, Central Kalimantan, Indonesia. Photo: Ulet Ifansasti/Getty Images
Police disaster investigation chief Budiyono announced late on Thursday that a meeting of forensic experts had made the positive identification of Ms Hayati based on fingerprint evidence, as well as items of jewellery and identity documents found on the body.
Attempts to positively identify body 002 - a young man - have so far failed.
A neighbour told local media that Ms Hayati and her husband, Djoko Suseno, a used car dealer, had planned to travel to Mecca with their daughter to fulfil the Haj pilgrimage, but that the fifth grade girl had wanted to take a holiday to Singapore first.
Ms Hayati's daughter, husband and mother-in-law are now missing, presumed dead.
No news has emerged from the dive site about 105 nautical miles off Pangkalanbun the island of Borneo, where changeable weather may have thwarted once more hopes that divers would be able to access the site of the wreckage for the first time.
A Singapore-based ship with sophisticated under-sea sonar also arrived on Wednesday and may have more luck mapping the dive site.
Weather reports late on Thursday also suggested the weather was clearing up at the site.
Weather stalls search for AirAsia black boxes; first victim buried
By Fergus Jensen, Gayatri Suroyo and Charlotte Greenfield
PANGKALAN BUN/SURABAYA, Indonesia Thu Jan 1, 2015 12:50pm EST
Relatives lower the coffin containing the body of Hayati Lutfiah, a passenger of AirAsia QZ8501, during her burial at a cemetery in Surabaya January 1, 2015. REUTERS/Sigit Pamungkas
(Reuters) - Heavy seas stopped divers reaching the possible wreck of an AirAsia Indonesia jet off Borneo on Thursday and an aviation official said it could be a week before the black box flight recorders are found.
Nine bodies have so far been recovered from the Airbus (AIR.PA) A320-200, which crashed on Sunday en route to Singapore from the Indonesian city of Surabaya with 162 people on board.
The bodies were brought in numbered coffins to Surabaya where relatives have gathered for identification. AirAsia Indonesia's CEO Sunu Widyatmoko was seen weeping when authorities handed over the body of the first victim, Hayati Luthfiah Hamid, to family members at a Surabaya hospital.
Hamid, 49, was buried on Thursday before sundown in the suburb of Desa Sawotratap, a few kilometers (miles) from the city, at an Islamic ceremony attended by relatives and neighbors. Three members of her family were also on board the plane.
"Their house has been in a panic since Sunday," Umaroyah, a neighbor, said. "Everyone in the neighborhood knows someone who was on that plane."
Searches on Thursday spanned an area of 13,500 square km (5,200 square miles) involving 19 ships, four helicopters and five planes, said Fransiskus Bambang Soelistyo, head of Indonesia's Search and Rescue Agency.
A search and rescue pilot has spotted a large shadow in the sea, which rescuers believe may be the wreckage, but they have made clear the sighting is not yet confirmed.
"Until now, there hasn't been a confirmed finding or sonar image of the plane body under water," Soelistyo said.
Forty-seven divers are on standby to investigate.
"I am hoping that the latest information is correct and aircraft has been found," airline boss Tony Fernandes tweeted on Thursday. "Please all hope together. This is so important."
Toos Sanitiyoso, an air safety investigator with the National Committee for Transportation Safety, said it could take a week to find the black box. Committee head Tatang Kurniadi said the focus of the search, once the waters had calmed as expected in five days, was around the shadow.
"We are backtracking from where the wreckage was found to where the plane had its last reading and that is the focus of our search," Kurniadi said. "The depth around here is 50 meters. No specialist equipment (is required). Divers can go get it."
Investigators are working on a theory that the plane stalled as it climbed steeply to avoid a storm about 40 minutes into the flight.
"What is most difficult is finding the location where the plane fell - checking whether the aircraft is really there," frogman commander Lieutenant Edi Tirkayasa told Reuters. "With weather like this, who knows? We are still hopeful and optimistic that they'll find it. They must."
So far, as well as the bodies, debris including a suitcase, an emergency slide and a life jacket have been recovered from waters near the suspected crash site. No survivors have been found. All but seven of those on board were Indonesians.
Authorities have been collecting DNA from relatives to help identify the bodies.
"We are asking universities to work with us - from the whole country," said Anton Castilani, executive director at Indonesia's disaster victims identification committee.
Relatives, many of whom collapsed in grief when they saw the first television pictures confirming their fears on Tuesday, held prayers at a crisis center at Surabaya airport.
"UNBELIEVABLY" STEEP CLIMB
The plane was traveling at 32,000 feet (9,753 meters) and had asked to fly at 38,000 feet to avoid bad weather. When air traffic controllers granted permission for a rise to 34,000 feet a few minutes later, they received no response.
A source close to the investigation said radar data appeared to show that the aircraft made an "unbelievably" steep climb before it crashed.
"It appears to be beyond the performance envelope of the aircraft," he said, noting that more information was needed to come to a firm conclusion.
Online discussion among pilots has centered on unconfirmed secondary radar data from Malaysia that suggested the aircraft was climbing at a speed of 353 knots, about 100 knots too slow, and that it might have stalled.
The Indonesian captain, a former air force fighter pilot, had 6,100 flying hours under his belt and the plane last underwent maintenance in mid-November, according to AirAsia Indonesia, which is 49-percent owned by Malaysia-based budget carrier AirAsia (AIRA.KL).
Three airline disasters involving Malaysian-affiliated carriers in less than a year have dented confidence in the country's aviation industry.
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 disappeared in March en route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur and has not been found. On July 17, the same airline's Flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine.
The AirAsia group, including affiliates in Thailand, the Philippines and India, had not suffered a crash since its Malaysian budget operations began in 2002.
Separately, an AirAsia Indonesia pilot was taken off flying duties on the route from Jakarta to the holiday island of Bali on Thursday after a urine test indicated traces of morphine. The airline said he had been taking medication following an illness.
(Additional reporting by Michael Taylor, Cindy Silviana, Wilda Asmarini, Kanupriya Kapoor, Nicholas Owen, and Adriana Nina Kusuma in JAKARTA, Jane Wardell in SYDNEY and Anshuman Daga in SINGAPORE; Writing by Nick Macfie and Peter Graff; Editing by Louise Ireland)
AirAsia pilot's son 'thinks daddy is still at work'
As the first two victims of the AirAsia disaster are identified, relatives struggle to break the news to the eight-year-old son of Flight QZ8501's pilot
Arya Galih Gegara, 8, the son of AirAsia QZ8501 pilot Irianto
By Tom Phillips, Sidoarjo
9:30AM GMT 31 Dec 2014
On Wednesday lunchtime, as the disaster's first two victims – a boy and a woman – were identified, a barefoot Galih dashed across the patio outside his home, apparently oblivious to the tragedy unfolding around him.
He skipped past his father's purple Honda motorbike, flashed a grin to his visitors and sped back into the house as if he had not a care in the world.
"We are protecting him from the news," his uncle explained once the boy was out of earshot. Televisions had been switched off in the house. Discussion of the catastrophe was forbidden when Galih was around.
"Slowly we will try to explain what has happened to his father. But it needs time. We still haven't worked out exactly how we will say it. I need time myself to accept what happened to my brother." Irianto's death was a severe blow for Budi Sutiono, a security guard and, like his brother, a flying enthusiast. One week earlier, his only other brother had died of a heart attack. That brother's body had barely been buried when Irianto was gone too.
"My parents have lost two sons in two weeks," he said, clasping his hands together as he struggled to maintain his composure.
"I believe this is God's will so it must be for the good of the family."
Since Sunday Irianto's home has been besieged by friends and relatives who remember a larger-than-life motorcycle aficionado who doted on two children, eight-year-old Galih and Angela, who is 22.
In the street outside, a tent has been erected between rows of mango trees to shield visiting mourners from the torrential afternoon rains.
Asked how Galih had reacted to the unusual number of guests, the boy's uncle said: "We have explained that his father has lots of friends and family and that they are coming here because they want to see us, that they come because they want to talk, that they come to maintain a good relationship with us."
He paused and stared down at his hands. "Yes. It is so hard to accept what happened. They were so close."
In a room next door Widya Sukarti Putri, the pilot's wife, lay in bed, waking occasionally to ponder the terrible fate that had befallen her husband and how she would tell their son.
If I were the uncle I will say "Eh! boy, later we go home you help me throw away all your father's things, okay!"
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