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Economic trouble brewing in India...asia

TopSage

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Loyal
Actually similarities with the Asian crisis is appearing. My advice to investors is to play safe something is DEFINITELY brewing....after speculators too down USA and Europe both were in high debts, they will turn to Asia....whose economies also build up massive debts...

Article below explain how India has over consume and excesses are set to destroy its economy
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In his Independence Day address, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said the rupee is down because of the global economic crisis. A look at the events of the last decade reveals otherwise. When the global economy was doing well between 2002 and 2008, the rupee was stable at about Rs. 45 to a dollar. When the global crisis erupted in 2008 and continued until 2012, the rupee held stable at Rs. 45.

It started to decline only in 2012 just as the global economy was beginning to look up. The United States is now on the growth path and Europe too has emerged from the recession. The rupee is falling while the global economy is looking up; not when it is engulfed in crisis. Clearly, the reasons for the decline of the rupee lie elsewhere.

Anyway, the global crisis is a mixed bag for our foreign trade. It may even be beneficial for us just as the loss of a competitor is. It is beneficial because imports become cheaper. The price of oil in 2007 had reached $140. It fell to $40 soon after the crisis erupted. On the other hand, our exports come under stress because foreign countries do not have money to buy our goods.

The bigger problem though is that we are unable to compete with other producers. A businessman reduces the price of his goods during a crisis and plods through to good times. Our businesses are not able to do this because corruption and misgovernance is increasing their cost of production.

The global crisis also affects foreign investment. Here too the impact is mixed. The global crisis makes foreign investors averse to taking risks. This leads to a reduction in foreign investment. Thus the foreign investment receipts fell from $43 billion in 2007 to a mere $8 billion in 2008 at the height of the crisis. Since crisis in the developed countries leads investors to hunt for opportunities outside, foreign investment bounced back in 2009 to the earlier level of $43 billion a year and remained at that level till 2012.

Foreign investors found India a bargain at that time. They now find that Indian businesses are under stress and are therefore averse to investing here. So the problem is not the global crisis but that India has lost her competitive edge due to the bribes extracted by politicians and the bureaucracy.

Why this sudden change of heart on the part of foreign investors in 2012? The problem has been brewing for a long time. We have been using capital receipts to finance current expenditure. A company prospers if it borrows money and invests it in factories. It fails if it uses the borrowing for the pleasures of consumption. Debt begins to accumulate and at some point investors become weary and exit.

That is when the company collapses. The same thing happens to a country. Investors deposit dollars with Indian banks. Banks sell these dollars to Indian importers. The crucial question is whether the buyers use these dollars to make investments in new factories or to import Chinese toys and other items of consumption? The country prospers if the dollars are used for investment but collapses if they are used to import items of consumption. The toys soon go into the dustbin but the country’s debt remains standing. This is precisely what has happened.

The government has led us into a consumption spree. Foreign investors saw a crisis in the making and realised that the Indian economy was losing its competitive edge in the global marketplace; and that money was being squandered in consumption instead of being used for investment. The tipping point came last year and the rupee has been on a losing streak since then. The present crisis is wholly due to bad domestic policies and not because of the global crisis.

Bharat Jhunjhunwala is former Professor of Economics, IIM, Bangalore
The views expressed by the author are personal
 

TopSage

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wtf i thought india is the savior while it's china that is going to crash? :rolleyes:

Both are bad but china central control has massive reserves to play fight fire. Dunno who sinks first but India is messy and less controllable right now smart money is fleeing....
 
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Ash007

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Indeed, China has a massive debt problem as well, but the chinese government would try everything with its massive funds to prevent proverbial shits hitting the fan scenario.India? 50% still doesn't have a toilet. If I was an investor I'll go with china more then india.
Both are bad but china central control has massive reserves to play fight fire. Dunno who sinks first but India is messy and less controllable right now smart money is fleeing....
 

TopSage

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Track India. ...really showing signs of strain. Reminds me of Thailand just before Asian crisis and Greece. They are putting all sorts of bands aids to support but pressure is mounting.

Under pressure from the falling rupee that breached the 63 mark against the US dollar on Monday, markets extended their losses witnessed on Friday.

On Monday, the benchmark Sensex at the BSE fell further by 290.66 points or 1.6 per cent to close at a four-month low of 18,307.5.

With Monday's fall, the Sensex has lost 1,843 points or 9.1 per cent in the last one-month. The broader Nifty at the National Stock Exchange fell by 93 points or 1.7 per cent to close at 5,414.8.

I have started shorting the Sensex and rupee...I think they going to pee soon.
 
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kingrant

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Bad news Inche.

Emeritus Senior Minister Woody Goh tied up the CECA with India during his reign to promise them good jobs in Singapore, business opportunities here ( IT, finance, banking, wealth mgmt etc) and free flow of their aged, sick, and retired village folks to camp in Singapore for our health benefits and for mass exodus of their womenfolk to Singapore where they can enjoy total safety and security from being raped, mugged or murdered.

This means that the CECA has tightened the noose around our necks to underwrite their economy and bail them out with our sovereign funds and reserves. Remember to ask "Where's our money?" at the right time.

Please note that the racial percentage of Indians has risen from around 7% to 10% now, and still rising albeit slower after we all kpkb.
 
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3_M

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Not one single country in the region was affected by rupee slump is a testimonial of India's economic 'power'.

I don't think there is any cause for worry even if India's economy were to collapse.
 

GOD IS MY DOG

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Asset
the next financial crisis (anytime now) will cause India and China to collapse........as i predicted over 10 years ago......

difference is................India will still stay in 1 piece...............

the Communists in China will be out.............and China will break up into a few parts........just like the Warlords Era in the 1930's........
 

Rogue Trader

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Asset
Not one single country in the region was affected by rupee slump is a testimonial of India's economic 'power'.

I don't think there is any cause for worry even if India's economy were to collapse.

when the honey runs out at home, where do you think the ants will go? (hint: a place where the earlier batches of ants had already infested. eg IT departments, banks, professional services firms etc.)
 

johnny333

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Asset
I was watching the BBC & Rolls Royce expects their sales to grow by 40% in India:eek:
One of the examples they gave was farmers who have sold their land & looking for bigger car:biggrin:

I had a friend who told me that his indian relatives bury their gold in the back yard. With such confidence in the economy I'm not surprised that the economy is not performing.
 

B Man

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That's a downright true statement..

Not one single country in the region was affected by rupee slump is a testimonial of India's economic 'power'.

I don't think there is any cause for worry even if India's economy were to collapse.
 

B Man

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Your analogy of honey has actually run out a long long time ago. Squandered by the politicians and the ultra rich.

Just that India's strict emigration rules and foreign countries immigration laws kept them in India. Now the floodgates are open and the barbarians are loose ..

when the honey runs out at home, where do you think the ants will go? (hint: a place where the earlier batches of ants had already infested. eg IT departments, banks, professional services firms etc.)
 

Rogue Trader

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Your analogy of honey has actually run out a long long time ago. Squandered by the politicians and the ultra rich.

Corruption by the rich and powerful also exists - and I'm sure it's to no lesser extent - there in China. Yet the Chinese have been able to improve their lives by leaps and bounds since the economic liberalisation. The big issue with India is their ineffective public administration. Different states operate like different countries. That's "democracy" for you...

Just that India's strict emigration rules and foreign countries immigration laws kept them in India. Now the floodgates are open and the barbarians are loose ..

Really? I am not aware of any strict emigration rules there. However, I am amazed at the long and cumbersome visa application process to visit their country (includes very detailed questions like "what is the birthplace of your father?").

The US and UK have already tightened up issuing employment visas to them. Let's see what Pap does .....
 

TopSage

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The stock markets in Asia has fallen another day. India ruppee sinks further...

Those who are invested please take precautions and care.
 

scbccb

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Loyal
Dalai Lama will be the new 曙汗王? Keep on dreaming!
rofl.gif


the next financial crisis (anytime now) will cause India and China to collapse........as i predicted over 10 years ago......

difference is................India will still stay in 1 piece...............

the Communists in China will be out.............and China will break up into a few parts........just like the Warlords Era in the 1930's........
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
the next financial crisis (anytime now) will cause India and China to collapse........as i predicted over 10 years ago......

difference is................India will still stay in 1 piece...............

the Communists in China will be out.............and China will break up into a few parts........just like the Warlords Era in the 1930's........

Why would india stay in 1 piece? For god's sake do u know many regions of india are worse off cos of the horrible central govt. You don't even give any explaination.
 

Jah_rastafar_I

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
the next financial crisis (anytime now) will cause India and China to collapse........as i predicted over 10 years ago......

difference is................India will still stay in 1 piece...............

the Communists in China will be out.............and China will break up into a few parts........just like the Warlords Era in the 1930's........

http://news.rediff.com/special/2009...reak-up-india-suggests-chinese-strategist.htm



Guys, please dont blame the chinese.

In India, I am called names and my culture, my language, my appearance is ridiculed and insulted. When ever I go to North India, I am called ethnic slurs by north Indians. In Delhi I was once told to get out of Delhi and go back to south. When I protested that I am an Indian, one north Indian guy told his friend in hindi....(This south indian is lecturing us. Seems to be a huge patriot. Wait till I give him a kick, see how he forgets his patriotism and learns to keep his mouth shut in Delhi.)

I have been called 'a_su_ra' and 'hab_shi' by my fellow citizens in North India. I have been told that (You south indians are upto no good. Those Pakistanis are way better than you south indians). And this has been my experience in New Delhi and NCR regions....the capital of the Country and surrounding areas!

I have interacted with a Chinese people in my trips abroad to Hong Kong, Silicon Valley, Europe and the Middle East. I have found them to be very hardworking and nice people. The one thing I noticed about all the Chinese people is they never take part in talking ill about others and dont gossip at all. I have received respect and love from the Chinese, and insults from my North Indian brothers.
 

Rogue Trader

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Rape of the Rupee continues... the Central Bank has stepped in...

[h=1]Indian rupee falls to record low before central banks steps in[/h]
By Subhadip Sircar and Neha Dasgupta
MUMBAI | Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:23am EDT

(Reuters) - The Indian rupee slumped to a record low in early trade on Tuesday and bond yields hit another five-year high as Asia's third-largest
economy bore the brunt of growing money flows out of emerging markets.

The rupee slumped as much as 1.6 percent to 64.13 to the dollar, adding to its 2.3 percent rout on Monday, before traders said the central bank was seen stepping in to sell dollars.

Markets
are bracing for further losses, with 1-month non-deliverable forward trading at 64.71.

A spate of measures by the central bank and government has failed to halt the slide, with liquidity tightening measures aimed at making it harder to short the currency pushing up borrowing rates and battering corporate and investor sentiment.

The BSE Sensex index
.BSESN of shares fell 1.2 percent to an 11-month low. JPMorgan downgraded Indian equities to "neutral" from "overweight", citing strain in the country's balance of payments, while Citi lowered its Sensex target to 18,900 from 20,800.

"India's problems are nowhere near resolution because New Delhi has not done anything - there is no focus on improving productivity, infrastructure or getting FDI (foreign direct investment) back," said Nomura credit analyst Pradeep Mohinani in Hong Kong.

"It's all about stemming the flow of currency and that is not the cause of the problem," he said.

Late on Monday, the Reserve Bank of India increased the foreign direct investment cap in asset reconstruction companies to 74 percent from 49 percent.

Earlier on Monday, India banned the duty-free import of flat-screen TVs from August 26.

The 1-month onshore forward rate for the rupee was at 64.47 while the offshore non-deliverable forward was at 64.71, an unusually wide gap that reflected bearish overseas bets against the partially convertible currency.

Emerging market
currencies have been under growing pressure from outflows amid expectations the U.S. Federal Reserve will soon start to wind down its super-easy money policy, possibly as early as next month.

Indonesia's rupiah, Brazil's real and South Africa's rand have also been in retreat as investors eye those countries that are most vulnerable to an exodus of foreign capital.

WEAK GOVERNMENT, WEAK GROWTH

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's weak coalition government, heading into national elections by next May, has been hamstrung from pushing through reforms to attract more long-term capital.

The rupee's plunge adds to worries about India's ability to fund a record high current account gap and whether Finance Minister P. Chidambaram will be able to meet his goal to pare the fiscal deficit to 4.8 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) this fiscal year.

Rating agency
Moody's said that while the rupee depreciation was a new variable for the economy, the factors underpinning it have been incorporated in its investment grade rating for India.

India is at the lowest investment-grade sovereign rating.

"We believe that meeting the fiscal deficit target will be very challenging this year, given lower than anticipated growth holding back revenue growth and steep rupee depreciation raising the subsidy bill on imported goods," analyst Atsi Sheth said in an e-mailed reply to queries from Reuters.

Bond yields remained at pre-Lehman Brothers-crisis levels for a second straight day. The benchmark 10-year yield was up 20 basis points at 9.43 percent.

(Additional reporting by Umesh Desai in HONG KONG and Swati Bhat and Abhishek Vishnoi in MUMBAI; Editing by Tony Munroe & Kim Coghill)

 

TopSage

Alfrescian
Loyal
Congrats to all who shorted Sensex and Rupee....started to pee...non-stop.
India is the Thailand of Asian Crisis 2. Investors, rich Indians will do a dump and flee and this whole thing will start cooking fast....

Rape of the Rupee continues... the Central Bank has stepped in...

[h=1]Indian rupee falls to record low before central banks steps in[/h]
By Subhadip Sircar and Neha Dasgupta
MUMBAI | Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:23am EDT

(Reuters) - The Indian rupee slumped to a record low in early trade on Tuesday and bond yields hit another five-year high as Asia's third-largest
economy bore the brunt of growing money flows out of emerging markets.

The rupee slumped as much as 1.6 percent to 64.13 to the dollar, adding to its 2.3 percent rout on Monday, before traders said the central bank was seen stepping in to sell dollars.

Markets
are bracing for further losses, with 1-month non-deliverable forward trading at 64.71.

A spate of measures by the central bank and government has failed to halt the slide, with liquidity tightening measures aimed at making it harder to short the currency pushing up borrowing rates and battering corporate and investor sentiment.

The BSE Sensex index
.BSESN of shares fell 1.2 percent to an 11-month low. JPMorgan downgraded Indian equities to "neutral" from "overweight", citing strain in the country's balance of payments, while Citi lowered its Sensex target to 18,900 from 20,800.

"India's problems are nowhere near resolution because New Delhi has not done anything - there is no focus on improving productivity, infrastructure or getting FDI (foreign direct investment) back," said Nomura credit analyst Pradeep Mohinani in Hong Kong.

"It's all about stemming the flow of currency and that is not the cause of the problem," he said.

Late on Monday, the Reserve Bank of India increased the foreign direct investment cap in asset reconstruction companies to 74 percent from 49 percent.

Earlier on Monday, India banned the duty-free import of flat-screen TVs from August 26.

The 1-month onshore forward rate for the rupee was at 64.47 while the offshore non-deliverable forward was at 64.71, an unusually wide gap that reflected bearish overseas bets against the partially convertible currency.

Emerging market
currencies have been under growing pressure from outflows amid expectations the U.S. Federal Reserve will soon start to wind down its super-easy money policy, possibly as early as next month.

Indonesia's rupiah, Brazil's real and South Africa's rand have also been in retreat as investors eye those countries that are most vulnerable to an exodus of foreign capital.

WEAK GOVERNMENT, WEAK GROWTH

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's weak coalition government, heading into national elections by next May, has been hamstrung from pushing through reforms to attract more long-term capital.

The rupee's plunge adds to worries about India's ability to fund a record high current account gap and whether Finance Minister P. Chidambaram will be able to meet his goal to pare the fiscal deficit to 4.8 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) this fiscal year.

Rating agency
Moody's said that while the rupee depreciation was a new variable for the economy, the factors underpinning it have been incorporated in its investment grade rating for India.

India is at the lowest investment-grade sovereign rating.

"We believe that meeting the fiscal deficit target will be very challenging this year, given lower than anticipated growth holding back revenue growth and steep rupee depreciation raising the subsidy bill on imported goods," analyst Atsi Sheth said in an e-mailed reply to queries from Reuters.

Bond yields remained at pre-Lehman Brothers-crisis levels for a second straight day. The benchmark 10-year yield was up 20 basis points at 9.43 percent.

(Additional reporting by Umesh Desai in HONG KONG and Swati Bhat and Abhishek Vishnoi in MUMBAI; Editing by Tony Munroe & Kim Coghill)

 
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