The Ultimax & the Americans

[scroobal]

The Ultimax developed by Chartered Industries and went into service with the SAF in the early 1980s and were subsequently sold to a number of armies. Designed in collaboration with people associated with the M16, the Singapore Govt was trying to persuade the US to buy it. Though given samples, the Americans appeared to give a lukewarm response everytime the matter was raised. The assumption by the locals was that the US was too proud to realise it's value.

The Singaporeans kept pestering at every opportunity. Until one day one SAF hero turned up at the Pentagon with the usual well worn pleas. This time the US chap and guess but who the then chief of staff , Colin Powell. He ordered that the SAF chap be given the test report done on the Ultimax.

The report was highly technical and detailed showing every tests in in including metallurgy. The US had done the test years ago but kept it away from the Singaporeans to avoid embarrassing their close partner in this region.

The morale of the story - soundblaster is flash in the pan. Know your limitations and know your position in the food chain.

Few years later an Australian working in his garage developed an entirely new type of machine gun.

 

[steffychun]

The Ultimax developed by Chartered Industries and went into service with the SAF in the early 1980s and were subsequently sold to a number of armies. Designed in collaboration with people associated with the M16, the Singapore Govt was trying to persuade the US to buy it. Though given samples, the Americans appeared to give a lukewarm response everytime the matter was raised. The assumption by the locals was that the US was too proud to realise it's value.

The Singaporeans kept pestering at every opportunity. Until one day one SAF hero turned up at the Pentagon with the usual well worn pleas. This time the US chap and guess but who the then chief of staff , Colin Powell. He ordered that the SAF chap be given the test report done on the Ultimax.

The report was highly technical and detailed showing every tests in in including metallurgy. The US had done the test years ago but kept it away from the Singaporeans to avoid embarrassing their close partner in this region.

The morale of the story - soundblaster is flash in the pan. Know your limitations and know your position in the food chain.

Few years later an Australian working in his garage developed an entirely new type of machine gun.

The US wants our weapons? Please. Even our famed SAR 21 was never considered by them; they modified their own M16s to become M4 carbines.

And now they are deploying warships to Singapore. Shows how "trustworthy" the SAF is in security

 

[karmabear]

Never go to war, want to sell their pathetic wares. We all know how ST Kinetics conduct it's business. Who else besides SG army dare to buy.

 

[ivebert]

Sinkies is only good at 1 type of export to US:

That is, human talents

Foreign students who have obtained scholarships in SG , studied for a few years and then jump board to America next
Nurses
Civil service scholarship holders who then break their bonds


Thank you ah!

Chao Sinkies! :oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[kingrant]

Oh dear dear, Philip Yeo...

The Ultimax developed by Chartered Industries and went into service with the SAF in the early 1980s and were subsequently sold to a number of armies. Designed in collaboration with people associated with the M16, the Singapore Govt was trying to persuade the US to buy it. Though given samples, the Americans appeared to give a lukewarm response everytime the matter was raised. The assumption by the locals was that the US was too proud to realise it's value.

The Singaporeans kept pestering at every opportunity. Until one day one SAF hero turned up at the Pentagon with the usual well worn pleas. This time the US chap and guess but who the then chief of staff , Colin Powell. He ordered that the SAF chap be given the test report done on the Ultimax.

The report was highly technical and detailed showing every tests in in including metallurgy. The US had done the test years ago but kept it away from the Singaporeans to avoid embarrassing their close partner in this region.

The morale of the story - soundblaster is flash in the pan. Know your limitations and know your position in the food chain.

Few years later an Australian working in his garage developed an entirely new type of machine gun.

 

[3_M]

The official line was US had already committed to Minimi and Ultimax came in too late.

But I thought in one field test report with HK, Colt, and Minimi, the US troops ranked Ultimax did not fare badly.

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/30-103365.aspx

 

[Amakusa Kourin]

The funny thing is, this characteristic is apparent in many Sinkie sheeps. Always brainwashed by their govt to think Singapore and their products are superior. Many probably could not take the hard truth that Singapore is often dismissed as just a small nation that likes to blow its own trumpets among the Westerners + Japan and China in private conversations.

 

[wikiphile]

The US wants our weapons? Please. Even our famed SAR 21 was never considered by them; they modified their own M16s to become M4 carbines.

And now they are deploying warships to Singapore. Shows how "trustworthy" the SAF is in security

Our 'famed' SAR-21 is but another knock off of the Israeli's TAR-21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAR-21

 

[wikiphile]

The official line was US had already committed to Minimi and Ultimax came in too late.

But I thought in one field test report with HK, Colt, and Minimi, the US troops ranked Ultimax did not fare badly.

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/30-103365.aspx

as compared to the M249, i thought that the ultimax was lighter. The ultimax had many problems which i think are design flaws - magazine fed ammunition only, open bolt and prone to jamming if not properly maintained. The recoil is quite a bitch too, you have to keep holding the damn LMG down or it will keep aiming and shooting higher and higher.

 

[aurvandil]

Know your limitations and know your position in the food chain.

Good one .... i am sure you are well aware of the insufferable reputation of our Sg diplomats. They like to think that Singapore is the equal of big powers like US, UK, France etc and look down on our poorer neighbours like Thailand, Philippines etc.

I recently learnt a new word to describe them.

cockalorum [ˌkɒkəˈlɔːrəm]
n
1. a self-important little man
2. bragging talk; crowing
[from cock1 + -alorum, a variant of Latin genitive plural ending -orum; perhaps intended to suggest: the cock of all cocks]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cockalorum

 

[Amakusa Kourin]

Good one .... i am sure you are well aware of the insufferable reputation of our Sg diplomats. They like to think that Singapore is the equal of big powers like US, UK, France etc and look down on our poorer neighbours like Thailand, Philippines etc.

I recently learnt a new word to describe them.

cockalorum [ˌkɒkəˈlɔːrəm]
n
1. a self-important little man
2. bragging talk; crowing
[from cock1 + -alorum, a variant of Latin genitive plural ending -orum; perhaps intended to suggest: the cock of all cocks]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cockalorum

And our diplomats think highly of themselves and went around insulting Japan and India.
They seem to forget both are huge homogeneous nations.

 

[HTOLAS]

If you looked at the timeline of the developments of the two weapons, it's more likely the other way around, i.e., the Israelis probably looked at the SAR21 which was developed in the 1990s, and corrected all its shortcomings, especially the SAR's inability to eject cartridges on the left side.

Our 'famed' SAR-21 is but another knock off of the Israeli's TAR-21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAR-21

 

[HTOLAS]

Neither is completely homogeneous, and India is famously heterogeneous.

And our diplomats think highly of themselves and went around insulting Japan and India.
They seem to forget both are huge homogeneous nations.

 

[wikiphile]

If you looked at the timeline of the developments of the two weapons, it's more likely the other way around, i.e., the Israelis probably looked at the SAR21 which was developed in the 1990s, and corrected all its shortcomings, especially the SAR's inability to eject cartridges on the left side.

I would like to believe so but knowing ST's capacity to brag, i wouldn't really buy it. They claimed before i entered the army in 2001 that the SAR-21 was 100% indigenously designed and manufactured in Singapore and the blah blah blah. ST's 'indigenous' military products are rubbish, i am speaking from 1st hand experience

 

[3_M]

Our 'famed' SAR-21 is but another knock off of the Israeli's TAR-21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAR-21

In think the timeline for the 2 doesn't support this theory. Maybe ST and IMI collaborated but split later on resulting in a spin-off variant?

 

[johnny333]

Years ago Soldier Of Fortune evaluated the Ultimax. The reviewer Kolkalis wasn't too impressed with the Ultimax.

It had too many small parts that could get lost. The weapon could not always be maintained out in the field, too many repairs needed to be sent back to an armourer. While the drum magazines worked in ideal conditions, the ones included with the ultimax were not metal & not as robust as magazine fed ones.

 

[HTOLAS]

Anyone claiming anything to be 100% indigenously designed is talking through an unconventional orifice, of course. There's nothing spectacularly new about the SAR21 as far as I can tell. And while I don't think it's an abject failure, it hasn't done many of the old things very well either, especially not being able to eject spent shells on any other side than the right.

I would like to believe so but knowing ST's capacity to brag, i wouldn't really buy it. They claimed before i entered the army in 2001 that the SAR-21 was 100% indigenously designed and manufactured in Singapore and the blah blah blah. ST's 'indigenous' military products are rubbish, i am speaking from 1st hand experience

 

[longbow]

What happened to Bionax tank?

 

[wikiphile]

What happened to Bionax tank?

died a natural and quiet death, weight-performance ratios problems as well as the chasis i think. Papsmearer should have some insights.

 

[wikiphile]

Years ago Soldier Of Fortune evaluated the Ultimax. The reviewer Kolkalis wasn't too impressed with the Ultimax.

It had too many small parts that could get lost. The weapon could not always be maintained out in the field, too many repairs needed to be sent back to an armourer. While the drum magazines worked in ideal conditions, the ones included with the ultimax were not metal & not as robust as magazine fed ones.

the bolt carrier group especially, and its fucking pins