Who are the sleeper agents in the Opposition parties?

[FuckSamLeong]

There must be. PAP does not kid around! There are some who act suspiciously or even openly undermining the image of their own political party.

Alot of shit had been thrown at Dr Chee to discredit him, about his source of income and so forth but I've never heard of a certain guy being targeted or accused who has no proven status of being gainfully employed or having a profitable private business yet is driving a new car and obviously not living a pauper's life.

This particular chap has been known to be very helpful to a certain veteran politician in running his ward yet had suggested no brainer activities that looks more like counterintel designs.

And I am not beating the grass to scare out snakes!

 

[Perspective]

I won't be surprised but I think it's more complex than that.

There are people who are planted by party branches and people planted by the govt such as the police. If you think they are all one PAP, then it's the usual simplistic perception. The whole institution is very big and each of its thousand arms operate differently with different dynamics.

All the purposes can be different - to disrupt the party or merely to gain info.

I'm sure some of them are not known names or former candidates that people here can easily name.

 

[scroobal]

As long as there are questions for which answers are not forthcoming or the situation is unclear, people will form question marks in their mind. The fact that you raised the Chee financial status without providing any answers can be construed as mischievous, out to create resentment or just plain naive. Any person who have qualms about associating with anyone if they can't understand the basis of someone's access to wealth is quite natural.

Typically all governments would have informants in political parties to monitor source of funds and support and the main fear is foreigners manipulating the country's foes or funding them. I am sure they have informants working within the entire PAP network. Afterall, the last paid agent run by Malaysian Special Branch was a PAP MP.

Then there are those that tend to curry favours, by being pally with all parties and sharing tidbits to feel important and wanted. Then there are those disgruntled party members who did not get chosen for the slate, party position or even running the annual party BBQ. They would be eager to see the party unfold by giving away the game all for a cup of coffee.

Knowing Singapore Political Parties, I doubt there is anything at stake that calls for an organised effort to infiltrate. Most they will find out is that Sylvia's lipstick is purchased from Tang's. Any other information from possible candidates, strategy, etc can be easily obtained from many of the blabber mouths that each party finds itself with.

 

[jw5]

As long as there questions for which answers are not forthcoming or the situation is unclear, people will form question marks in their mind. The fact that you raised the Chee financial status without providing any answers can be construed as mischievous, out to create resentment or just plain naive. Any person who have qualms about associating with anyone if they can't understand the basis of someone's access to wealth etc.

Typically all governments would have informants in political parties to monitor source of funds and support and the main fear is foreigners manipulating the country's foes or funding them. I am sure they have informants working within the entire PAP network. Afterall, the last paid agent run by Malaysian Special Branch was a PAP MP.

Then there are those that tend to curry favours, by being pally with all parties and sharing tidbits to feel important and wanted. Then there are those disgruntled party members who did not get chosen for the slate, party position or even running the annual party BBQ. They would be eager to see the party unfold by giving away the game all for a cup of coffee.

Knowing Singapore Political Parties, I doubt there is anything at stake that calls for an organised effort to infiltrate. Most they will find out is that Sylvia's lipstick is purchased from Tang's. Any other information from possible candidates, strategy, etc can be easily obtained from many of the blabber mouths that each party finds itself with.

Actually I'm not even that complicated.
I simply want to hear him explain the case about the expenses for the thesis, even though I'm not buying the pappy argument either.
If he had explained that clearly, or perhaps apologised and behaved well, he would be sitting in parliament right now, making all the noises he wanted.
Unfortunately, he chose another path.

 

[Perspective]

Typically all governments would have informants in political parties to monitor source of funds and support and the main fear is foreigners manipulating the country's foes or funding them. I am sure they have informants working within the entire PAP network. Afterall, the last paid agent run by Malaysian Special Branch was a PAP MP.

This is what I suspect. Perhaps even government have arms that check on the PAP party. I think the PAP is not downright stupid and would understand that the best way to keep itself strong is to check itself, not protect itself.

Any other information from possible candidates, strategy, etc can be easily obtained from many of the blabber mouths that each party finds itself with.

The issue may be that many of such information may not be reliable. After all, if these informants want to see the party unfold, they would spread as much negative untruths as possible. The PAP would end up hearing info that makes itself fall into such complacency that they are caught by surprise in the end. Unless it sends its own "people" or pays people to do it.

 

[Perspective]

Actually I'm not even that complicated.
I simply want to hear him explain the case about the expenses for the thesis, even though I'm not buying the pappy argument either.
If he had explained that clearly, or perhaps apologised and behaved well, he would be sitting in parliament right now, making all the noises he wanted.
Unfortunately, he chose another path.

I found the thesis expense a non issue. After all, it is $10, if I don't remember wrongly. What I found appalling was his expulsion and intriguing was his aftermath reaction.

I think Vasoo overreacted for some reason. The PAP might even have knocked his head for doing such a silly thing because he's an MP after all. But I feel CSJ could have appealed with an apology, explanation and request to be reinstated. Personally I believed he would have been reinstated. That way he could have turned the tables on Vasoo but I think he saved Vasoo instead.

Anyway, it was a long time ago. I believe CSJ is not a corrupt person or by now as a party leader he would have the opportunity to sink his hands into SDP's funds and got a lot more. That should be elementary.

 

[Ramseth]

Anyway, it was a long time ago. I believe CSJ is not a corrupt person or by now as a party leader he would have the opportunity to sink his hands into SDP's funds and got a lot more. That should be elementary.

What SDP funds?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Sleeper agents in oppo parties are mainly information gatherers. As they say knowledge is key.

It's not very productive to try to disrupt a party's operations by planting a mole there and getting him to mess up the place with some wierd antics. He'd be found out and cast out assuming the party leaders are in good control. Unless you're talking about election time when a simple slip-up can cost a great deal, and even then I don't think so.

There was one information gatherer, a British MI6 trained chap, who was in NGO and political party and he would video tape all the sessions. He contested in the last elections.

A couple are were former student spies who are now in political party CEC. As far as I know they don't disrupt anything.

There must be. PAP does not kid around! There are some who act suspiciously or even openly undermining the image of their own political party.

Alot of shit had been thrown at Dr Chee to discredit him, about his source of income and so forth but I've never heard of a certain guy being targeted or accused who has no proven status of being gainfully employed or having a profitable private business yet is driving a new car and obviously not living a pauper's life.

This particular chap has been known to be very helpful to a certain veteran politician in running his ward yet had suggested no brainer activities that looks more like counterintel designs.

And I am not beating the grass to scare out snakes!

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Seems that you are well informed.

Goh Meng Seng

Sleeper agents in oppo parties are mainly information gatherers. As they say knowledge is key.

It's not very productive to try to disrupt a party's operations by planting a mole there and getting him to mess up the place with some wierd antics. He'd be found out and cast out assuming the party leaders are in good control. Unless you're talking about election time when a simple slip-up can cost a great deal, and even then I don't think so.

There was one information gatherer, a British MI6 trained chap, who was in NGO and political party and he would video tape all the sessions. He contested in the last elections.

A couple are were former student spies who are now in political party CEC. As far as I know they don't disrupt anything.

 

[scroobal]

Thats why they are called sleepers,"sleeper agents, moles etc. No one as I recall talked about disrupting anything. They won't be "moles" if they are disrupting anything and drawing attention to themselves. If they are not gathering information why else would they be there. Seems redundant.

MI6 got better things to do then train an agent to be in a Singapore opposition political party and let alone contest the elections. What are they hoping to do, reclaim Sembawang Shipyard. Its so much cheaper to have a chat with everyone in the political scene and draw your facts and form an opinion of singapore opposition politics. There are so many disgruntled people around the political scene waiting to spill their their heart out to anyone who is prepared to listen.

Sleeper agents in oppo parties are mainly information gatherers. As they say knowledge is key.

It's not very productive to try to disrupt a party's operations by planting a mole there and getting him to mess up the place with some wierd antics. He'd be found out and cast out assuming the party leaders are in good control. Unless you're talking about election time when a simple slip-up can cost a great deal, and even then I don't think so.

There was one information gatherer, a British MI6 trained chap, who was in NGO and political party and he would video tape all the sessions. He contested in the last elections.

A couple are were former student spies who are now in political party CEC. As far as I know they don't disrupt anything.

 

[scroobal]

Its not $10. Its 20 times more than that just for the desptach of the thesis using research funds.

Typically, the cause of action in the civil service and the Stat Boards, and NUS is one, is to terminate or seek resgination in view of integrity. The usual cases tend to be over claims, conversion of business class air tickets to economy and pocketing the difference, transport claims, misappropriation of office equipment (desk top printers stand out front and centre) etc. Every years, few will get caught and end up leaving.
One MFA Sr staff however was charged in court, because the T&E false claims were done in a sophisticated manner.

As one swallow does not make a summer, the practice is to log a series of similar events. There was a series in Chee's case. Despite people claiming postage stamps and personal photocopying, both were not part of it.

The same approach lies in the corporate world. T&E claims are the most tempting to many and therefore the biggest issue in internal abuse. For the very same reason bosses tend to trawl or pay attention to T&E claims to catch out those they want to kick out.

Chee was sued by Vasoo, Prof Earnest Chew and the Department Secretary, I think a Miss Ow for defamation over the incident. Chee filed a defence, but later withdrew his defence and did not take presumable to avoid cross examination. He basically did not contest it and paid damages.

I found the thesis expense a non issue. After all, it is $10, if I don't remember wrongly. What I found appalling was his expulsion and intriguing was his aftermath reaction.

I think Vasoo overreacted for some reason. The PAP might even have knocked his head for doing such a silly thing because he's an MP after all. But I feel CSJ could have appealed with an apology, explanation and request to be reinstated. Personally I believed he would have been reinstated. That way he could have turned the tables on Vasoo but I think he saved Vasoo instead.

Anyway, it was a long time ago. I believe CSJ is not a corrupt person or by now as a party leader he would have the opportunity to sink his hands into SDP's funds and got a lot more. That should be elementary.

 

[Hawkeye1819]

MI6 got better things to do then train an agent to be in a Singapore opposition political party and let alone contest the elections. What are they hoping to do, reclaim Sembawang Shipyard. Its so much cheaper to have a chat with everyone in the political scene and draw your facts and form an opinion of singapore opposition politics. There are so many disgruntled people around the political scene waiting to spill their their heart out to anyone who is prepared to listen.

I think what Thick Face was referring to was getting insider info about the party. Blabber mouths may have a lot of dirty gossip but not necessarily any sensitive info that could be of use. Take for example personal details about party candidates.

By the way, by blabbermouth, you won't by any chance be referring to a certain YKH, won't you?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

The Singapore government might have sent people for training in MI6 or CIA. Not surprising about that.

Goh Meng Seng

MI6 got better things to do then train an agent to be in a Singapore opposition political party and let alone contest the elections. What are they hoping to do, reclaim Sembawang Shipyard. Its so much cheaper to have a chat with everyone in the political scene and draw your facts and form an opinion of singapore opposition politics. There are so many disgruntled people around the political scene waiting to spill their their heart out to anyone who is prepared to listen.

 

[scroobal]

Thats not what he said.

We all agree that its pretty much common sense to have people/agents/sleepers/moles/informants to monitor what goes on in political parties including the PAP in regard to foreign funding and influence or any other agenda that the authorities might have. Its the MI6 part and the disruption part hat I am curious about. Disrupt the opposition from capturing seats?

The Singapore government might have sent people for training in MI6 or CIA. Not surprising about that.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Thats not what he said.

We all agree that its pretty much common sense to have people/agents/sleepers/moles/informants to monitor what goes on in political parties including the PAP in regard to foreign funding and influence or any other agenda that the authorities might have. Its the MI6 part and the disruption part hat I am curious about. Disrupt the opposition from capturing seats?

I believe what he meant was that garhman people who are trained by MI6 were sent in as sleeper. Disruption or not, I really don't know. I have heard about this one though.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

MI6 is really going into the realm of creative imagination whether trained by them or its them. Imagine how silly its sounds to spend all that money on such training to infiltrate singapore opposition parties. All these infiltration can be done by junior handlers in any intelligence outfit. Political parties are super poor and are struggling to make ends meet, and trying to best to hold to the few good people they have. They don't have the means and time to run sophisticated clandestine operations requiring covert skills from MI6.

What do you think they going to find - Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Kiang, mixing icing sugar with superphostate fertiliser at Lim Chu Kang cemetary, while Chee prepares the electronic switches, Sylvia prepares the video for Yaw and Sebastian to say their last words. I can imagine Ejay and Lamei sewing the belt and Tilik prepering the PR piece for Al Jazeera.

I believe what he meant was that garhman people who are trained by MI6 were sent in as sleeper. Disruption or not, I really don't know. I have heard about this one though.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Haha. In normal circumstances, this is pretty remote. But somehow, others may not be that normal at all.

Goh Meng Seng

MI6 is really going into the realm of creative imagination whether trained by them or its them. Imagine how silly its sounds to spend all that money on such training to infiltrate singapore opposition parties. All these infiltration can be done by junior handlers in any intelligence outfit. Political parties are super poor and are struggling to make ends meet, and trying to best to hold to the few good people they have. They don't have the means and time to run sophisticated clandestine operations requiring covert skills from MI6.

What do you think they going to find - Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Kiang, mixing icing sugar with superphostate fertiliser at Lim Chu Kang cemetary, while Chee prepares the electronic switches, Sylvia prepares the video for Yaw and Sebastian to say their last words. I can imagine Ejay and Lamei sewing the belt and Tilik prepering the PR piece for Al Jazeera.

 

[Ramseth]

The Singapore government might have sent people for training in MI6 or CIA. Not surprising about that.

Goh Meng Seng

MI6 doesn't exist.

 

[scroobal]

I realised that in my haste, I forgot to put you in the plot. This is exciting. Maybe opposition politics needs some fireworks to get some attention.

Haha. In normal circumstances, this is pretty remote. But somehow, others may not be that normal at all.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

Wrong bro, according to new information that I received, they are now operating in a singapore political party.

MI6 doesn't exist.