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TOC Writer's Shocking Stand On Rony Tan Affair

elephanto

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Of all alternative media, TOC was slowest in commenting on the Rony Tan affair.

So when it arrives, I look forward to reading it.

This contributor to TOC - his article I read with shock.
The comments that follow even more shocking.

Suddenly, Rony Tan is the 'hero' with the 'courage to apologise'.

Before I calm down & compose my response, I like to know how our regulars view this article - very different from mainstream opinion.

Don't dismiss lightly, the slant of this article is highly significant on various levels.


Community, Main Stories, Politics - Written on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:00 - 61 Comments

Not your ordinary chit-chat session

Tags: buddhism, isd, religious harmony, rony tan, Terence Lee
Terence Lee

When the Internal Security Department (ISD) called up Pastor Rony Tan to talk about his callous comments on Buddhism, it was no ordinary chit-chat session.
Pleasantries might have been exchanged and the obligatory coffee proffered, but this was not a case of two grown men sitting down to discuss contractual terms on equal footing.
The contract was already favouring the ISD. What they presented, by virtue of their contact with Pastor Tan, was a timely reminder that the full brunt of the law would bear down on him if he did not comply.
Pastor Tan’s recent incendiary comments on Buddhism are certainly a cause for concern. As the leader of a large megachurch of over 10,000 members, the government had every reason to sit up when complaints about his remarks reached their letterbox.
Equally as worrying is the fact that the ISD has such broad powers that allow it to act as it did. Certainly, there is an obvious need to protect religious harmony in Singapore. This is indisputable fact that few will argue against. As such, many have also lauded the government’s swift action.
But are we too quick to celebrate?
Vague laws lead to confusion
Let us be reminded that we have a government that wields a plethora of legislature to keep its citizens in check. The Sedition Act is an example of one such law. The Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act (MRHA), no doubt drafted to deal with recalcitrant religionists, is another.
Both have one thing in common: the wordings drafted out in the legislation gifts the government with overbearing powers of control.
The Sedition Act grants the state the right to arrest anyone who promotes “feelings of ill-will and hostility between different races or classes of the population of Singapore.” The MRHA has a similar phrasing, threatening to restrain anyone that is “causing feelings of enmity, hatred, ill-will or hostility between different religious groups.”
Is this a good thing? On one hand, it does give them broad power to maintain harmony and keep the peace. But on the other hand, such a blunt instrument has created a chilling effect over religious and political debate. Such phrasing gives the Minister too much latitude to act while providing religious and political leaders with too little clarity in what they can or cannot do.
There is another common flaw in the Sedition Act and MRHA. Both legislatures, if one studies them closely, place an emphasis on maintaining societal harmony at the expense of truth or justice. When placed in the hands of a hypothetical corrupt regime, the consequences could be disastrous.
The MRHA compromises religious truth just like how the Sedition Act jeopardises political justice. Suppose that a Muslim imam decides, as a matter of conviction, to speak up against a Buddhist group. This would inevitably cause “feelings of ill-will, hatred, enmity, and hostility” between the two groups, even though the imam may be right. How would the government rule in this case?
What I am seeking to illustrate is this: if the Sedition Act and MRHA are not amended, religious groups could use it as a weapon to oppress one another, putting the government in a bind.




Let us come back to the present crisis involving Pastor Tan. Suppose that Pastor Tan, in criticising Buddhism, did so with well-researched substantiation and in a non-patronising tone. No attempt was made to ridicule the faith, but every effort was made to encourage a genuine debate about the issue at hand. Would he be reprimanded by the government as well?
The fact is that we simply do not know. One possibility is that overzealous Buddhists and Taoists could become oversensitive and sound the alarm bells to the authorities. The ISD could then be forced to act for fear that tensions could escalate.
to continue....
 

elephanto

Alfrescian (Inf)
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continued...

Understanding religious beliefs
Of course, I have much faith in our Buddhist and Taoist brethren. But the above scenario could become possible if religious groups continue to be ignorant about one another’s beliefs.
It could also happen if we hold to unrealistic expectations about religious believers, such that the ideas that religious belief is private and that one faith should not interfere in another. I believe such reasoning is utter nonsense for two reasons.
First, the separation of church and state is only an organic divorce; actual division do not exist in reality. Our religious values (or lack thereof) influence our worldview, which in turn influences policy-making. A debate about religion has an influence on debate about policy matters like abortion, social welfare, and even education (sex education and evolution comes to mind).
As such, religious debate should have its rightful place in the public sphere; nothing less.
Second, all religions ultimately contradict one another, even as they share similarities. All are in contention for the truth. The Buddhist belief in reincarnation is incompatible with mainline Christian and Islamic beliefs. And while many Christians claim that their religion is the only path to god, Islam will eagerly dispute that.
Christians, therefore, should not be denied their right to evangelise, given that it is a fundamental tenet of their belief. Evangelism is also not an imperialist act as some might paint it to be. Any pastor will tell you that evangelism must ultimately be practiced with love, compassion, and sensitivity. Whether they live it is another thing altogether.
Both religious groups are engaged in fundamentally the same task: influencing others. Evangelism is simply a more proactive way of doing so, although Christians themselves have different ways of practicing it.
At the risk of oversimplifying things, we can liken Buddhists to a computer stall that seeks to convert potential customers who pay a visit; Christians can be seen as the door-to-door salesmen. And as most salesmen will understand, just as they have the right to peddle their wares to you, you too have the right to reject them.
Maintaining a balance
With this framework in mind, we can then analyse Pastor Tan’s predicament for what it is: An attempt at influencing the public to his religion that ended up becoming crude, insensitive, and misleading.
The government needs to strike a balance when it intervenes in religious affairs: the maintenance of religious harmony on one hand and the need to foster intelligent religious debate on the other.
Some will no doubt question: Was the government too harsh by handing Pastor Tan the yellow card?
That, however, is not the main issue. What we should question is their use of vague legislature as a blunt instrument to protect harmony while giving up the chance to give citizens an opportunity to learn how to better deal with insensitive religious remarks.
Micromanaging public debate may deprive Singaporeans the chance to develop genuine religious tolerance that comes from the bottom up rather than the top down. It also creates another dilemma: The government is forced to continually use the heavy hand of the law to maintain control over its people. If they start letting up, chaos might erupt as the people are not trained to handle disruptive remarks in a mature way.
One can only speculate as to why the government chose to react in the way they did. It could be due to the religious tensions that erupted in Malaysia. The fact that Pastor Tan was a pastor of a prominent church is another consideration.
But the Aware saga, in which a group of Christians took over a secular feminist organisation for allegedly promoting pro-gay views, has proved that Singaporeans can resolve disputes among themselves in a mature, civil manner with minimal intervention from the Singapore government. So why intervene this time?
Perhaps the messiness of the Aware saga made them realise that a laid-back approach was too much of a risk. Perhaps they did not want to see another protracted saga happen on our shores. Or maybe the government just did not want to be seen as promoting a pro-gay cause then.
But whatever the reason, by resorting to blanket laws as a means of control, the government is sending the unfortunate message that it does not trust community moderation as a means of conflict resolution. These laws, although unlimited in scope, also opens up the opportunity for hate groups to exploit it to their advantage.
This incident can be seen as another opportunity lost for Singaporeans to step up to the plate. By intervening early, the government had deprived the Buddhist authorities the chance to take the initiative and engage Pastor Tan on a direct level. It has also deprived the pastor an opportunity to show humility without the urging of the government.
Ultimately, we are not horses that obey the whims of our masters. When push comes to shove, the people of Singapore knows how to react in a way that ultimately contributes to religious harmony. But it seems that the government does not have the same faith in its people.
 

elephanto

Alfrescian (Inf)
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Sample of comments in TOC"-

<style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } A:link { so-language: zxx } --> </style> [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]253SA
Feb 10, 2010 11:40 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence, I like to ask if you had the chance to view the three videos made by this person. If you haven’t, I suggest you view it objectively and evaluate the content matter without prejudice. At the end of your viewing, should you still feel that the government need not have intervened, then it is clear where you stand.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence
Feb 10, 2010 11:47 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]253SA, yes I have seen the videos even before I wrote this.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]pickitup
Feb 10, 2010 12:02 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I have watched the video, and I don’t think it is incendiary and offensive, though there could be element of “mockery”. This said, it can be said of the Christian’s “speaking in tongues” by others as “xiao” or “crazy” by others.
I think this is a storm in a teacup and I really amaze at the low level of tolerance of general populous, and more so by the high handed manner taken by ISD.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]253SA
Feb 10, 2010 12:12 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence, I now have a better understanding of your perspective on certain matters which I consider extremely important. It is clear that we have nothing in common to talk about.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Oh Tham Eng
Feb 10, 2010 12:20 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]AN OPEN LETTER TO PASTOR: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I AM PROUD OF YOU, PASTOR RONY TAN![/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

To: Pastor Rony Tan
From Mr Oh Tham Eng
Dear Pastor Rony!
I am proud of you for your courage and sincere humility to go alone to Bright Hill to meet up will those aggrieved Buddhists and Taoists leaders to apologise to them one more time. This is something very admirable of you!
I fully agree with what Canon Derek Hong (of the Church Of Our Saviour) had said to his congregation in his morning sermon on 3/5/09: “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]It is good to be able to say “I’m sorry” to others if it can help the situation[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. God will take that as our offering to Him too. He knows who is right and who is wrong. He will vindicate those who are in the right.” Unfortunately, very, very few Singaporeans (including church leaders) are able to say sorry even when they are in the wrong.
I hope to be going to the Internet to write some helpful posts to help all parties involved in this unfortunate episode and to let people know what Singaporeans can learn from you (your humility, sincerity and courage to face up to your mistake), and from the kindness of the aggrieved Buddhist and Taoist leaders to accept your unreserved apologies. DPM Wong Kan Seng had commented that he was glad to note that you and the Buddhists/Taoists leaders did the right things on each other’s part (ST 10/2/10 pg A6). May God bless MHA Mr Wong for being such a wise leader in such unfortuante times like this!
By your sincere show of humility, you thereby make concerned people like me and DPM Wong easier to say something to help you and others mitigate the situation. So you have shown us the right way to manifest genuine humility and take personal responsibility instead of running away to let things burn. For that, you deserve our commendation, support and best prayers, dear Pastor Rony!
I believe that after this unfortunate episode and show of humility on your part—-as an object lesson that most Singaporeans badly need to learn too to say I am sorry!”)—-God will do even greater works in Lighthouse Evangelism through the ministry that He has so wonderfully gifted you, to bless Singapore even more and to manifest His great love and wonderful will for all of us.
Paul says, “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves. Let each of us look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.”[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Philippians 2:3-4.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]May God bless you and all parties involved in the matter! May He continue to bless our beloved Singapore and great leaders (including those in the Opposition camps)![/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

So “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Inspire me, Lord, to be thankful to Thee for Thy favours to me and my loved ones to do good deeds which will please Thee. Admit me, through Thy mercy, to be among Thy righteous.” An-Naml 27:19. “For the noblest in God’s sight is he/she who is the most righteous. ” Al Hujurut 49:13.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
May God be greatly praised! Majulah Singapura!
Sincerely,
Oh Tham Eng[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]pickitup
Feb 10, 2010 13:10 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]lobo76,
you know something? Singaporeans love to complaint but not do anything :-) Since young we are told to complaint to the proper authority and let the authorities deal with it, so much so that we are so trained to complaint, and much lesser of us dare to do anything to change the things we complained about.
I just think that there are too many armchair politicians and philosophers and too little doers in singapore.
It is good that the parties involved in the case above decided the moves on from this, otherwise it could easily develop into ‘this for that” mentality and causes people to lose sight of the bigger picture and environment.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]oiligoli
Feb 10, 2010 13:19 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I think that Pastor Rony did the right thing and apologised. It does take a certain amount of humility and courage for a man with his kind of following to do that.
Now, I only hope that when he really meant it when he says it’ll never happen again, not “I’ll never get caught again”. It would be very dangerous indeed if such teachings are not preached publicly from the pulpit anymore, but nevertheless done ‘under the table’, e.g. disseminated and reinforced in cell groups or sunday school.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Bear
Feb 10, 2010 15:12 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence, this is exactly what i meant – there is no such thing as justification in religion. Everything is based on faith, belief, individual experience, etc… that cannot be scientifically tested and proven with consistent results. So pls. I’d have respected u more if u do not use the word “justification” to close off your paragraph.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence
Feb 10, 2010 15:15 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Bear, I disagree with your statement about religion having no justification. I also disagree that all religion is subjective and it doesn’t matter what we believe, as you seem to be implying. I’d expect that you respect my stand on this as well. We can always talk about this more, but this forum is not the place for it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]rock you baby
Feb 10, 2010 15:53 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]i finished this article with mixed feelings. on one hand, i am glad to read an article that shed a different light on the issue; on the other hand, it is somehow disturbing to find that the article has tried to trivialise the situation, dragging the focus onto judiciary framework instead of a balanced argument. fud was also apparent on calling of amendment of sedition act and mrha.
furthermore, the author concluded that “[the government's reaction] deprived the pastor an opportunity to show humility without the urging of the government”. let’s assume that he ultimately do not apologise and therefore polarising followers of different religions. will it been too late for the government to step in then? after weighing the cost of social instability against the benefit of having a chance for him to demonstrate humility, personally i think the cost is a price singaporeans cannot afford to pay.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Bear
Feb 10, 2010 16:02 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence, don’t mind I ask u this question: What is your religion? Of cos u don’t need to tell me if u’re not comfortable. :smile:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence
Feb 10, 2010 16:09 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I’m Christian, so that might explain why I’ve written the article a certain way. I am of course fully aware that I may not be as upset as a Buddhist who watches the video, but my aim is to put across my perspective in the hopes of engaging others. In recent years I’ve grown to be skeptical of the fundamentalist aspects of my religious beliefs. So maybe you can consider me a Christian with a more liberal or progressive view about my faith.[/FONT]
 

elephanto

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jonathan
Feb 10, 2010 16:12 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In short summary, an article promoting the rights of Christianity and urging the authorities not to intervene in anyway.
Terence, you must be a christian :smile:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence
Feb 10, 2010 16:23 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rock you baby, thanks for your thoughtful sharing. Regarding trivialising the situation, I do hope that I have sufficiently communicated that Pastor’s Tan’s words are not justifiable and insensitive. I must apologise if that did not come across well.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]However, I don’t quite understand how focusing on the judicial framework trivialises the issue. Maybe you would like to explain it in greater detail.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Lastly, regarding my conclusion, let us first ponder on the aftermath of the government’s reaction. it is quite obvious that whatever the government does, some segment of the population will be unhappy. There is already a facebook group calling for more punishment for Pastor Tan. Also, right now, many netizens are still agitated by this incident despite govt action.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On the other hand, I will acknowledge that we cannot predict what will happen if the govt didn’t intervene this time around. But based on past precedents like the Aware saga, do we have sufficient reason to trust Singaporeans to resolve the matters themselves? Also, just recently, another Facebook group was created calling for religious respect and tolerance (which I recently joined). This goes to show that enough Singaporeans care about the issue and that community moderation is not only theoretical stuff.
At this point, we can throw out another argument: The govt acted because it wants to prevent the situation from escalating. Fair enough. But why not just issue the statement condemning his words? I’m sure that is enough to cause Pastor Tan to apologise. Why meet him up?
But the above is not the point of the debate. And this brings us back to the judicial framework we have been talking about. If Singaporeans are acting in the fear of the law, is that really religious tolerance? Is it coming from their heart?
I remember Venerable Kwang Sheng saying something like this: It takes only one or two persons to ruin the religious harmony we have. If that is the case, then isn’t the religious harmony we have in Singapore superficial?

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence
Feb 10, 2010 16:26 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Marine, no I do not agree that Buddhism is necessarily a false religion, is demonic, and that the teachings of Buddhism is rubbish. That is not my stand at all.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Donaldson
Feb 10, 2010 17:12 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The concept of community moderation may not be compatible with the Church’s leadership hierachy.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Disappointing.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Perhaps the below may help to those who can still think independently and rationalize the faiths of all / respect each and everyone’s religion as it is personal between the faith of the individual and the god he/she has faith in -[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/religion/[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Bear
Feb 10, 2010 17:32 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence, thank you for being open about your religious belief. I rest my case. (or maybe just one more point: See how much discussions u’ve generated? It shows clearly that religious issues need very delicate handling). Bye![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]rock you baby
Feb 10, 2010 17:53 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]@Terence

based on your comments, i reckoned you are not siding the pastor. but that impression was not strong from the article alone. just to highlight the obvious, not all readers are going to read the comments.

from sources online, i am not sure if isd had met him personally. cna reportedly mentioned he was “called up” by isd, which i presume only phone conversations had occurred. do correct me if i am wrong. nonetheless, i believe there is a need for some form of dialogue to understand the situation, whether (1) he meant what he said, (2) his intended message was something else, but due to miscommunication or whatsoever, turned out to be offensive, (3) it was a case of sabotage (video was fake) etc. upon getting the facts right, isd can then issue a more directed message to the public (seditious messages/new media sensationalising/sabotaging to be avoided).

i believe the majority of us do have religious tolerance, and while it is impossible to ensure every single person is tolerant, the nett effect is still strongly positive when we realise the occasional blacksheep are not representative of the entire religion. and i do feel this is the case currently, judging by the largely mature debates within communities with occasional insensible stereotyping, which most participants ignore.

however, the said laws are still required to maintain a fair system whereby people are responsible for their actions, especially those in positions to influence large populations. it also prevents mudslinging where followers berate the other religion during heated and protracted disagreement.

i do agree that in a certain sense, the religious harmony here is fragile. how so? when religious leaders preach religious harmony, followers tend to follow, and everyone becomes loving. when the religious leaders preach otherwise and left unchecked, there may be enough followers following blindly, hence disturbing the harmony. while the best-case scenario is to have all citizens able to think critically and judge for themselves, the probability of it happening is not high. therefore, there still is a need for a mechanism (albeit passive) to keep religious activities in check.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Kevin
Feb 10, 2010 18:03 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence, I was shocked to read what you wrote. The overall impression I get is that you are trying to suggest that Buddhists and Taoists are overreacting to the entire affair, and that what Rony Tan did was excusable in some way because he could have been simply trying to get a discussion about different religions going.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I was born and raised a Christian, and still consider myself one. However, I don’t think this new age evangelical behaviour where you knock down everyone else just to show how superior you are is in any way tolerable. To me, it stinks of insecurity.
You go on at length about government legislation, which seems irrelevant here. The point here is that here is a man, who professes to be a pastor, PROMOTING HATE AND DISCORD for those around him. Is that what Christian behaviour has become today? Are Christians now in the business of promoting hate for those who disagree with them? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Come on. As a reasonable human being born and raised in a multi-religious society, do everyone a favour here and say you believe that what Rony Tan did was completely wrong and unacceptable.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence
Feb 10, 2010 18:09 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Kevin, [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I have expressed my disapproval of his comments in my article. Let me quote it for you: “With this framework in mind, we can then analyse Pastor Tan’s predicament for what it is: An attempt at influencing the public to his religion that ended up becoming crude, insensitive, and misleading.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Regarding th Buddhist and Taoist comment, it is merely a hypothetical scenario. Note my immediate disclaimer immediately I raised that scenario: “Of course, I have much faith in our Buddhist and Taoist brethren.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Kevin, I am a Christian like you, and I am not proud of Pastor Tan’s comments. What matters is how we react too it, and whether sweeping legislation is the right way to handle these comments.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I do hope you give my article a second read, because I think you have misunderstood it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence
Feb 10, 2010 18:12 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Kevin, you may also want to note how I started my article: “When the Internal Security Department (ISD) called up Pastor Rony Tan to talk about his [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]callous[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] comments on Buddhism, it was no ordinary chit-chat session.”[/FONT]
 

elephanto

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]marine
Feb 10, 2010 18:17 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Dear Terrence, [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Rony Tan and Lighthouse is not the first and only church here in Singapore to attack and condemn another religion, many of our churches here does the same, just that non christians have been quiet about it and suay suay Rony’s video surface up. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]An average Singaporean would have been approached by a Evangelist telling him/her how wrong and idolic their existing faith are and ONLY their Christian God is the one true choice for them, Believe in MY GOD, heaven and eternal life for you, Dun believe in me, HELL and ETERNAL SUFFERING in the lakes of fire you go, just like Satan who chose to oppose God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Sound familar?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]What’s worse now? As well resort to demonizing Buddhism now ~
Don’t keep quiet, many churches and pastors are equally guilty of that …. our dear netizens and any singaporean whom has been evangelized will be able to tell you so.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Justice
Feb 10, 2010 18:18 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]TODAYonline News Alert for February 10, 2010
http://imcms2.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20100210/1002HNR004.pdf
REASON PASTOR NOT ARRESTED
————————————–
…………… Despite this, Mr Tan Tarn How, a senior research fellow at the Institute of Policy Studies, believes that an opinion leader such as Pastor Tan should be dealt with more severely, compared to an ordinary individual. “An opinion leader has more influence. I think the pastor was let off too lightly,” said Mr Tan.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terence
Feb 10, 2010 18:34 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Marine, I understand your concerns completely. Even as a Christian, I’ve always struggled with the notion of hell and the fact that if one is not a Christian, he or she would burn it hell. It troubles me deeply too, and I’ve never grappled with this until now. From your comments, you seem to have suffered some negative experiences with Christians who may be too pushy with their faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I used to be such a Christian. But as I mature through the years, I have come to understand that such an approach is flawed and insensitive. While I still hold on to my faith, I have come to question many of the beliefs which I used to hold fervently. If you’d like, you can read about my journey here: http://irreligiously.blogspot.com/2009/06/my-conviction-part-one.html[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]marine
Feb 10, 2010 18:40 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Terrence, [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Your personal views and christian beliefs does not change the big christian enviroment we are and facing now .. the churches and the evangelists that condemns … [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Its a FACT that loads and loads of such people and churches are the majority here in Singapore (Note: I am not saying ALL christians but saying a BIG PROPOTION are like that)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]marine
Feb 10, 2010 18:52 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]no no … sorry [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I mean very good attempts used to cover up the ugly side of the Christian faith we have now in Singapore.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]himeji888
Feb 10, 2010 19:13 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Hi, all[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]It is true that Pastor Tan video is offensive, and yes, he need to apologize.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]However, we cannot quit to evangelize just because complaints. As Christians, we have duty to proclaim the gospel, no matter what are the resistances, either from communist, islamic, secularist, extremist and so on (Matthew 28: 18-20). Religion comparison study is, of course, inevitable if Jesus proclaim He is the only Truth (John 14: 6).
Since the truth can be only one, and the religion doctrines are contradicted with each others, it is inevitable IF someone is truely Christian to perceive all religions are false.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]However, I should emphasize that while our doctrine taught that Jesus is the only truth, we have no command to force someone to receive Gospel. We cannot compromise or modify our doctrine for the name of ‘political correctness’, ‘religious harmony’, or ‘blasphemy’
If someone perceived that Christianity is not truth and reject it after we proclaim Gospel, we are OK with it. Christian should not force nor curse nor show hostility for their rejection. It is also Jesus’ command to show love to others and our enemies (Matthew 5: 44)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Elijah
Feb 10, 2010 21:57 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I like what Marine said above, whether Rony Tan’s apology means he’s bowing down to Satan. :-) Clearly, Rony Tan does not aspire to be a martyr and be detained indefinitely by ISD for his convictions.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]SYN
Feb 10, 2010 22:51 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]My thinking is this. Obviously, the Pastor made a mistake. Without ISD intervention, I believe there are enough wise people around to either respond to the Pastor’s comment (ie. make him wiser) or ignore him altogether.
ISD intervention make this whole thing arbitrary. Can a Pastor’s remark (even placed on You Tube) cause internal insecurity, and in today’s context? I am sure you will find much more insensitive remarks on the internet. Is ISD trying to justify its job existence or or is the government using this episode to put a point across? And at a time when election is nearing? Hummm, I wonder…
If my memory hasn’t failed me, I do recall times when our government leaders made insensitive remarks about other countries (e.g. US, the West, etc.). Should someone from UN come and arrest them as well? Or, at least invite them for coffee? Just an analogy. :smile:[/FONT]
 
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