• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

The Ugly Indian FTrash

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
33,627
Points
0
<TABLE id=msgUN border=0 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD id=msgUNsubj vAlign=top>
icon.aspx
Coffeeshop Chit Chat - The Ugly Indian</TD><TD id=msgunetc noWrap align=right> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"> </TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>holeinmany <NOBR></NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>8:31 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (1 of 15) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>30506.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>Move over, America. The world has a new rude traveler to detest.
By Jason Overdorf - GlobalPost
Published: August 10, 2009 06:50 ET
Exhibitors interact inside an exhibition hall during the Pacific Asia Travel Association Travel Mart 2008, in the southern Indian city of Hyderabad, Sept. 17, 2008. (Krishnendu Halder/Reuters)Enlarge Photo
NEW DELHI — The instant that the fasten seat belts light went out aboard Cathay Pacific's inaugural Delhi-Bangkok flight this summer, a chorus of metallic dongs erupted like a romper roomful of Ritalin-deprived 5-year-olds turned loose on an arsenal of xylophones.
The passengers were attacking their call buttons.
In seconds, flight attendants were up and running. By the time they began dishing out the special meals, tempers were beginning to fray.
“Whiskey!” demanded an old man with a white beard when the young Chinese flight attendant tried to put a meal in front of him.
“Sir, we are not serving drinks now,” the flight attendant replied politely. (Dong! Dong-dong! Do-Dong, dongdong!)
In the next row, another man, younger but no less eloquent, reached up to press his call button, and the flustered attendant caved and uncapped the Scotch.
“Arre, such a small peg she's given you,” the old man's companion protested.
Dong! Once the world loved to hate the Ugly American — fat, loud-mouthed and blissfully superior in his utter cultural ignorance. But since the economic crisis put the kibosh on American and European travel budgets, there's a new kid in town. India's rampaging outbound travel market has thrown a much-needed lifeline to the tourism industry in Southeast Asia, Europe and farther afield.
For those schlepping bags and serving drinks, though, the Ugly Indian can be so demanding that the lifeline sometimes looks like it has a noose at the end of it.
“It's a cultural thing,” said Pankaj Gupta, part-owner of Outbound Travels, a New Delhi-based travel agency. “In India, we have servants to do everything in everybody's houses mostly, so people are just sort of used to getting stuff delivered to them.”
Culture conflict has already resulted in several public relations debacles. In May, for instance, a group of Indian passengers caused a minor sensation in the local press when they leveled allegations of racism against Air France — saying that when their flight was delayed for 28 hours in Paris other passengers were transported to hotels, but the Indians were made to wait in the lounge. (The distinction was not made based on race, but on possession of a valid Schengen visa, the airline maintains).
In a similar incident in 2006, 12 Indian passengers accused Northwest Airlines of racism when they were offloaded and detained in Amsterdam for what flight attendants called “suspicious behavior.”
“Imagine arresting 12 guys just because they were changing seats and talking on their cellphones when the plane was taking off,” wrote Indian humorist Jug Suraiya in his Times of India column. “Everyone does that in India all the time, and no one gets arrested.”
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>holeinmany <NOBR></NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>8:32 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>holeinmany <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (2 of 15) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>30506.2 in reply to 30506.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>Yes, the metro Indian can be quite ugly, and not only in airplane cabins and at airports. He is ugly in his SUV, he is ugly in a restaurant, at the shopping mall, in a cinema 'multiplex', at the bank, as a tourist, with his colleagues. And he is just as likely to be an ugly she.
The new, thirtyish, well-salaried urban Indian is as crass as they come. The streets of Mumbai (still 'Bombay' to the forty-plus and above) are a stage for such ugliness, for it is in their new cars that these Indians are at their ugliest. For them, pedestrians are the untermenschen, and have no place on city roads. For it is on city roads (town roads too, for the proletkult of the Indian auto has spread far and fast) that the ugliness can find full fearsome expression. There are to be no rules, no orderliness and no civic courtesies for the ugly Indian, for he can either blast right through them, or buy away their interference. What matters is the zip and flash of automobile swagger.
And so it is that the new car, the new phone, the new vacation (we used to call it a 'holiday', until the new marketers stepped in), the new career and the new confidence are what defines the new Indian. The 'new rude traveler' that Jason Overdorf describes is a representative of a far bigger, far more destructive social disease. This explosive blight, which has outsped H1N1 many times over, is now recognised by travellers in airports around the world. The economically-empowered Indian, his ugliness endorsed by an accordion-album of credit cards, has shoved aside the American and the Chinese and barged his way to the rudeness front. For him, domination begins with low-grade thuggery. If my rupee can't buy it, it can't be worth it.
In the early 2000s, as a resident in South-East Asia, I would find myself affronted by the quick tendency of travelling Chinese to crowd all others out, loudly and inconsiderately. What would happen, I had wondered then, if the nascent new Indian took this as a challenge? No, it couldn't be, I reasoned, for our cultural shyness and reputation for frugality could not allow such degradation. How utterly wrong I was. The rowdy Chinese and the self-inflated American were but the beta versions of the unutterably ugly Indian, who has swept away all challengers.
Is there any remedy? A recession, if we're lucky.
</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>holeinmany <NOBR></NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>8:33 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>holeinmany <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (3 of 15) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>30506.3 in reply to 30506.2 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>I agree that the US is fast losing its monopoly on obnoxiousness to the Indian yuppie. My experience flying with fellow-Indians has been more mixed than Overdorf's observation of unrelieved nastiness... behavior ranges between obsequious timidity to overbearing obnoxiousness, both equally exasperating. Overdorf's broad strokes are of course grating... but there is little about the brash indian yuppie that inspires any attempt to defend him (it is a gendered thing). I've seen men in dress pants, flip-flops and nicotine stained mustaches bring flight attendants to tears with their bad behavior... members of parliament refusing to show ID and threatening ground staff into issuing them boarding passes... and of course the iconic whisky guzzler whose smallest crime is a constitutional aversion to saying "thanks" or simply being nice.
There is something unique about the Indian brand of racism where it seems quite alright to refer to Indians from the north east as "chinks" or worse "chinese"... the hatred and distrust of muslims is almost customary... and residential segregation (based on ethnicity) is just as bad if not worse than New York City. Callousness, thoughtlessness and a disregard for fellow-humans is written into the very architecture of Indian cities where pedestrian spaces are taken over by roads full of cars that blithely dismantle rearview mirrors (apparently the whole point of driving is to get ahead and honk the hell out of anyone in the way!). The entire stretch of the 8 lane road that connects Bangalore to the new privately owned airport is without pedestrian infrastructure... in the first week of is operation there were 75 deaths on this road while people either fulminated about the inconvenience of driving 50 kilometers or raved about how "modern" the new airport was. The new airport struck me as insufferably hideous... a blue box in the middle of nowhere. Neat and efficient but hideous with misspelled advertising for IIT tuition and Australian MBA programs. But I digress.
There are too many attempts to justify and normalize the all too visible cruelty and indifference in everyday life in India... blame "tradition", blame "pre-modern" sentiments or blame capitalism, blame modernization, blame the colonial disruption of some mythical indigenous history.
It is indeed a "cultural thing"... As "culture" becomes the preserve of corporate consultants intent of managing "organizational culture," the humanities in Indian universities have become handmaidens to the outsourcing industry's demands for an army of what Geeta Seshu has called "midnight coolies". The only other discourse on "culture" is monopolized by the fundamentalist and not-so fundamentalist Hindu nationalist. Of course, there is the weird confluence of libertarian and leftist critiques of modernization in particular and western modernity at large. All this has created a vacuum of discourses on what Indians need to do in order to practice a more cosmopolitan sense of the world.
Overdorf is mostly quite astute in his critique... except he lets a lopsided (and racist) EU immigration regime off the hook. To overlook the fact that the EU affords certain passports mobility while restricting others in order to paint his picture of the ugly indian traveler is disingenuous at best. The fact that most North Atlantic passport holders get a free pass into European hotels while others get the privilege of spending the night in transit lobbies might simply seem like an innocuous consequence of the way the rules are set up. It might not be the kind of crude biological racism that segregates and violates based on phenotype (something that (post)Hansonite Australians seem to have monopoly on)... but racism it is! A state sanctioned racism that too. Racism is not simply what some people in hats do to some people in turbans... it is a structure of rationality that pervades modern law and notions of sovereignty. Travel, across borders then becomes a space where these not so latent rationalities ignite.
Looked at in a slightly less hyperventilated context then, an irascible turbaned gent's impolite demand for whisky might be at least secondary to those of us concerned with civility and niceness.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead vAlign=top><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>holeinmany <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>8:36 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>holeinmany <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right>(4 of 15) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"></TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>30506.4 in reply to 30506.3 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>EVERYONE knows about the oppression of rural India and the urban poor. Some people even do something about it but spoil it by terrorizing anyone else who foolishly admits to liking nail polish, squirts Ma Griffe, collects Spode or can say ‘hors d’oeuvres’ and ‘Cabernet-Sauvignon’ without a blink. But I wonder if you’ve ever heard the poor little stories below?
* A likely lad from Delhi goes to Singapore (pre-WTO). He’s enchanted by its cleanliness, by the endless orgy of shopping and snacking it offers, by its romantic possibilities. Nothing in his mis-spent, picaresque youth in the hot and dusty plains of Hindoostan had quite so much... potential. A pretty Australian girl responds to his chatty line and, whoopee, she’s agreed to have dinner with him. They find a candlelit Chinese restaurant and settle into a nice, easy rhythm of innuendo. Her hand lies so close to his.
He’s mustering the nerve to ask her over to his hotel, when two paunchy, safari-suited Indians waddle in. Their piggy eyes light on a large blonde at the next table. They strut over and make the most obscene verbal passes. Pretty Australian suddenly withdraws her hand. The likely lad completely loses his nerve and the romantic evening peters out in false, bright promises to e-mail.
* At a Kutiyattam festival cum-workshop under a thatched roof at Irinjalakuda (Kerala), an incredibly arrogant Tambrahm dancer addresses an audience of European and Indian art addicts. She blathers on about how every good idea in the world was actually born in the mind of some ancient rishi. Everyone reacts in typical ways. The gin-drinker Indians wriggle uncomfortably in acute embarrassment. The Swedes look politely blank. The French curl their lip. A German musicologist who has lived a good portion of the last twenty years in South India, turns an alarming shade of brick red. I think he is about to burst an artery, but luckily Ms Cornucopia stops twittering just then and the German rushes out for an ice cream on Irinjalakuda’s high street, scientifically ripping the Iyer mami’s spiel to shreds the while.
* The CNG crisis lets loose the dogs of war on Delhi’s streets. A pack of testosterone-driven lumpen youth circle a lone woman driver at a traffic light, squeeze in and harass her, until a cruising police patrol jeep evicts them. The woman is shattered. Her democracy has rebounded horribly on her and she’ll take good care to keep the ‘others’ at a safe, hygienic distance for evermore.
* Two young women are Eurailing and youth-hostelling their way around Europe one heady summer. At the Baths of Caracalla in Rome, they find they have to wait ten minutes for the afternoon visiting hours to begin. The Italian gatekeeper wants to know their nationality. ‘Aah. Donna Indiana, bellissima!’, he kisses his fingertips. ‘Huomini Indiani – molto male!’ The girls want to bop him on the head, but truth compels silence. In almost every European city, they’ve been troubled by greasy Indian men. ‘Arre darling, main paas aa jaon?’ these compatriots demand to know on the Parisian subway or a Munich bus. Or they whistle on Vienna’s Maria Theresia Strasse and jostle them in a Venetian vaporetto, exactly as if they were on board a Delhi Transport Corporation bus.
* An activist in the South is furious. She’s fought and won serious battles on the humanitarian front. People should be saying how proud they are of her. But because she was born into an upper caste family, she is hounded and persecuted in innumerable little ways by an inimical set of neo-Dravidians, who nevertheless consider it a status symbol to acquire a Brahmin mistress or wife. ‘Why are certain wars fought on women’s bodies?’ she hisses. ‘Why the blazes should I be part of this?’
Well, shall we get all Yeatsian and say the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity? For what can I write about the Ugly Indian that you don’t know backwards, that you’re not already mired in?


</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msgleft width="1%"></TD><TD class=msgopt width="24%" noWrap> Options</TD><TD class=msgrde width="50%" noWrap align=middle>Reply</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Back
Top