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Chitchat State of the Chinese economy on the eve of trade war.

kryonlight

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The US is set for a trade war with China’s economy — you should know what it’s up against
  • If the US going to have a trade war with China, we should understand the state of its economy.
  • The data shows that the country’s economy isn’t as strong as its leaders make it sound – it’s still very dependent on exports.
  • That said, authoritarian governments don’t have to worry about elections, meaning they have a higher threshold for economic pain.
The trade war is here, so it’s time to take a look at the Chinese economy to know what we’re dealing with.

On Monday, China retaliated against the Trump administration’s tariffs on steel and aluminum by slapping tariffs on 128 imports from the United States.

Now, the US already had a bunch of duties on Chinese steel and other commodities going back to the Obama administration, so the new tariffs are likely more a preemptive move to set the negotiating table before the Trump administration in the coming weeks announces more meaningful action against China for stealing US intellectual property.

So regardless of why exactly China did what it did, we’ve got a tit-for-tat exchange of protectionist moves. That means the trade war is on.

This is coming at a time when the Chinese economy, on the surface, is looking pretty stable.

For the first time in a few years, China’s stock market or currency didn’t start the year with a violent puke or an unnerving slide. Economists and politicos at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, didn’t tear their hair out wondering whether the country’s massive debt bubble – which is still growing – would burst.

Thanks to all that, Chinese officials have been successfully selling the narrative that everything is under control – that the central government’s plan to slowly deflate the bubble through supply-side reforms is working.

You should know that’s utter nonsense. China’s economy is in a weaker position than its leaders would have you think.

Of course, that doesn’t mean they can’t rally their people against the West – they’ve been preparing for that for a while.

The mountains are high, and the emperor is far away

“China’s growth momentum was undeniably solid at the beginning of the year, albeit not as solid as the headline readings might have suggested,” Wei Yao, an analyst at Societe Generale, wrote in a note to clients last month. “However, most of the leading indicators are pointing to at least some softening from here and the policy stance, as signaled at the National People’s Congress, remains hawkish on balance.”

That means that the economy, which for years has lived off of the creation of more and more credit, is likely to slow. And despite a potential slowdown, the government is signaling that it will tighten policy conditions.

Some indicators are already reflecting this situation. One of the most important in the country, property transaction volume, fell precipitously last month. On a year-over-year basis, overall transactions fell 33.6%.

In the largest so-called Tier 1 cities, volume fell 20.9%. In midsize Tier 2 cities, it fell 44%, and in smaller Tier 3 cities, it fell 29%.


In March, the Caixin/Markit Purchasing Managers’ Index came in at 51, down from 51.6 in February. (A reading below 50 indicates a contraction in spending.)

Independent China-watchers still insist that the reforms the government promised have yet to come. Last month, the data firm China Beige Book reported that deleveraging hadn’t started and that corporates were still sucking up credit to survive.


5ac27698b9fd1409218b47f2.png


Other reforms China has promised also haven’t come. The government has yet to crack down on commodities sectors like steel, which have for years been suffering from overcapacity.

From China Beige Book:

“When Beijing announced in 2017 that it would prioritize crackdowns – this time, really! – on both pollution and industrial overcapacity, it was taken as gospel that the steel industry was in for a winter hibernation, even after the government itself reported rising 2017 output.

“China Beige Book knew otherwise, for the simple reason that steel firms told us the very opposite – companies in Q4 reported hiking capacity on net while investing, borrowing, and hiring more. Our Q1 steel results confirm this heresy. This quarter steel firms saw a rise in output, sales volume, capex, borrowing, and perhaps most remarkably for an industry supposedly in retreat, hiring. And for good measure, the sector hiked overall capacity for an astonishing eighth straight quarter.”


One would think that in a country controlled by one man, President Xi Jinping, the government would be able to snap its fingers and make these things happen. Not so.

A few weeks ago, I sat down to lunch with Dinny McMahon, a former Wall Street Journal reporter based in China who wrote the book “China’s Great Wall of Debt.” He explained to me that despite all the directives from Beijing, reform had been slow going.

McMahon told me that in China there’s a saying that “the mountains are high, and the emperor is far away.” That is to say: The central government’s edicts are not always followed on the local or regional level.

Regional governments don’t always want to shut down factories and deal with angry, unemployed citizens. Local governments don’t always want to stop issuing financing vehicles.

In a country as vast as China, even with an authoritarian central state, it can take a lot to get everyone on the same page. One big takeaway, though, is that we’re looking at a country still very much dependent on exports for its economic health.

From China Beige Book’s recent report (emphasis retained):

“While Q1 revenue looked strong, every sector this quarter except manufacturing saw profit growth weaken from Q4 2017 … Retail’s weakness is of particular concern. If China’s exports suffer from President Trump’s upcoming trade actions, and any copycat barriers elsewhere, domestic consumption hardly looks robust enough to carry growth.


“Credit and investment trends are also a concern. While our borrowing and capex gauges look stable at the national level, a truly healthy and rebalancing economy wouldn’t see retail and services firms borrow and invest less while commodities firms again lead nationally in both hiring and borrowing.”

An authoritarian tolerance for pain

Now, of course, authoritarianism has its benefits.

What the central government can control it can change at breakneck speed – for example, it can force healthy private-sector companies to buy into debt-laden state-owned enterprises to prop them up in the face of collapse.

Last year, China Unicom, a flailing state-owned telecommunications company, announced it would raise about $10 billion in cash from private investors including Alibaba, Baidu, JD.com, China Life Insurance Company, and Tencent, among others. Together, they’ll have a 35% stake in the company.

That didn’t happen because these tech companies suddenly got an itch for the telecom business, but because the government said it had to happen.


When China must, it can marshal all its resources to deal with a problem. That is an advantage it has over the US in dealing with economic matters. The US doesn’t work like that – you’ll recall the horse trading (and stock market carnage) it took to pass the bailout that stabilized our banking system in 2008.

Another advantage the Chinese will have in this trade war is a forced tolerance for economic pain as a result of a not-always-responsive government. Americans can express a desire for change in the face of an economic downturn through the electoral process. People living under authoritarian governments, on the other hand, have no choice about that.

In a trade war, that can be an advantage, as it means the government can pull out all the stops. China might do just that.
 
This news make angmoh balls licker like u happy like Larry.


The US is set for a trade war with China’s economy — you should know what it’s up against
  • If the US going to have a trade war with China, we should understand the state of its economy.
  • The data shows that the country’s economy isn’t as strong as its leaders make it sound – it’s still very dependent on exports.
  • That said, authoritarian governments don’t have to worry about elections, meaning they have a higher threshold for economic pain.
The trade war is here, so it’s time to take a look at the Chinese economy to know what we’re dealing with.

On Monday, China retaliated against the Trump administration’s tariffs on steel and aluminum by slapping tariffs on 128 imports from the United States.

Now, the US already had a bunch of duties on Chinese steel and other commodities going back to the Obama administration, so the new tariffs are likely more a preemptive move to set the negotiating table before the Trump administration in the coming weeks announces more meaningful action against China for stealing US intellectual property.

So regardless of why exactly China did what it did, we’ve got a tit-for-tat exchange of protectionist moves. That means the trade war is on.

This is coming at a time when the Chinese economy, on the surface, is looking pretty stable.

For the first time in a few years, China’s stock market or currency didn’t start the year with a violent puke or an unnerving slide. Economists and politicos at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, didn’t tear their hair out wondering whether the country’s massive debt bubble – which is still growing – would burst.

Thanks to all that, Chinese officials have been successfully selling the narrative that everything is under control – that the central government’s plan to slowly deflate the bubble through supply-side reforms is working.

You should know that’s utter nonsense. China’s economy is in a weaker position than its leaders would have you think.

Of course, that doesn’t mean they can’t rally their people against the West – they’ve been preparing for that for a while.

The mountains are high, and the emperor is far away

“China’s growth momentum was undeniably solid at the beginning of the year, albeit not as solid as the headline readings might have suggested,” Wei Yao, an analyst at Societe Generale, wrote in a note to clients last month. “However, most of the leading indicators are pointing to at least some softening from here and the policy stance, as signaled at the National People’s Congress, remains hawkish on balance.”

That means that the economy, which for years has lived off of the creation of more and more credit, is likely to slow. And despite a potential slowdown, the government is signaling that it will tighten policy conditions.

Some indicators are already reflecting this situation. One of the most important in the country, property transaction volume, fell precipitously last month. On a year-over-year basis, overall transactions fell 33.6%.

In the largest so-called Tier 1 cities, volume fell 20.9%. In midsize Tier 2 cities, it fell 44%, and in smaller Tier 3 cities, it fell 29%.


In March, the Caixin/Markit Purchasing Managers’ Index came in at 51, down from 51.6 in February. (A reading below 50 indicates a contraction in spending.)

Independent China-watchers still insist that the reforms the government promised have yet to come. Last month, the data firm China Beige Book reported that deleveraging hadn’t started and that corporates were still sucking up credit to survive.


5ac27698b9fd1409218b47f2.png


Other reforms China has promised also haven’t come. The government has yet to crack down on commodities sectors like steel, which have for years been suffering from overcapacity.

From China Beige Book:

“When Beijing announced in 2017 that it would prioritize crackdowns – this time, really! – on both pollution and industrial overcapacity, it was taken as gospel that the steel industry was in for a winter hibernation, even after the government itself reported rising 2017 output.

“China Beige Book knew otherwise, for the simple reason that steel firms told us the very opposite – companies in Q4 reported hiking capacity on net while investing, borrowing, and hiring more. Our Q1 steel results confirm this heresy. This quarter steel firms saw a rise in output, sales volume, capex, borrowing, and perhaps most remarkably for an industry supposedly in retreat, hiring. And for good measure, the sector hiked overall capacity for an astonishing eighth straight quarter.”


One would think that in a country controlled by one man, President Xi Jinping, the government would be able to snap its fingers and make these things happen. Not so.

A few weeks ago, I sat down to lunch with Dinny McMahon, a former Wall Street Journal reporter based in China who wrote the book “China’s Great Wall of Debt.” He explained to me that despite all the directives from Beijing, reform had been slow going.

McMahon told me that in China there’s a saying that “the mountains are high, and the emperor is far away.” That is to say: The central government’s edicts are not always followed on the local or regional level.

Regional governments don’t always want to shut down factories and deal with angry, unemployed citizens. Local governments don’t always want to stop issuing financing vehicles.

In a country as vast as China, even with an authoritarian central state, it can take a lot to get everyone on the same page. One big takeaway, though, is that we’re looking at a country still very much dependent on exports for its economic health.

From China Beige Book’s recent report (emphasis retained):

“While Q1 revenue looked strong, every sector this quarter except manufacturing saw profit growth weaken from Q4 2017 … Retail’s weakness is of particular concern. If China’s exports suffer from President Trump’s upcoming trade actions, and any copycat barriers elsewhere, domestic consumption hardly looks robust enough to carry growth.


“Credit and investment trends are also a concern. While our borrowing and capex gauges look stable at the national level, a truly healthy and rebalancing economy wouldn’t see retail and services firms borrow and invest less while commodities firms again lead nationally in both hiring and borrowing.”

An authoritarian tolerance for pain

Now, of course, authoritarianism has its benefits.

What the central government can control it can change at breakneck speed – for example, it can force healthy private-sector companies to buy into debt-laden state-owned enterprises to prop them up in the face of collapse.

Last year, China Unicom, a flailing state-owned telecommunications company, announced it would raise about $10 billion in cash from private investors including Alibaba, Baidu, JD.com, China Life Insurance Company, and Tencent, among others. Together, they’ll have a 35% stake in the company.

That didn’t happen because these tech companies suddenly got an itch for the telecom business, but because the government said it had to happen.


When China must, it can marshal all its resources to deal with a problem. That is an advantage it has over the US in dealing with economic matters. The US doesn’t work like that – you’ll recall the horse trading (and stock market carnage) it took to pass the bailout that stabilized our banking system in 2008.

Another advantage the Chinese will have in this trade war is a forced tolerance for economic pain as a result of a not-always-responsive government. Americans can express a desire for change in the face of an economic downturn through the electoral process. People living under authoritarian governments, on the other hand, have no choice about that.

In a trade war, that can be an advantage, as it means the government can pull out all the stops. China might do just that.
 
China spending too much on defence when there is no threat.
 
In the very very 1s place, Chinese advantage is so much stronger that CCP can survive and still STRONGLY RULING even starving millions to death or even killed by nuke.

Dotard can not!

Hence, MUST WAR ALL THE WAY.

Hence, any damages to own economy are ABSOLUTELY NOT CONSIDERATION AT ALL. Just give MAXIMUM DESTRUCTION TO GLOBAL ECONOMY.

Prepare to accept and sustain damages, and feel no pain. If any pain, it is others who feel or mind that pain, DON'T GIVE A SHIT. ENJOY it.

In the 2nd Place, after mentioning the 1st, USA is a Dead Meat Economy before Trade War, Dotard admitted during his election campaign. His Debt to China is way beyond historic records. China is WORLD ECONOMY POWER HOUSE, and TOP DEBT OWNER, before trade war. Hence even by taking SAME amount of losses throughout the war, sinking equally deep into water measured by water depth, USA DIE FIRST, because China began with standing WAY HIGHER ALTITUDE ABOVE WATERLINE, miles above USA. When sinking USA is below waterline 1st before China. China can still stay above waterline and survive while USA is deep under.

Even if China took on SELF-destructive measures causing itself to sink 2:1 measured by amount of sinking. Even 3:1 or 4:1 or 5:1 , still it is USA to get killed 1st, Americans can not endure nor survive it. Chinese can. So don't need to consider damages on Chinese side at all.

In ANY WAR, even nuke war, Chinese people can preserve itself and sustain withstanding much more number of EQV TNT TONs of warheads nuked. CCP power will still be standing strong. Their tough history of coming to power BY WAR and HUGE CARNAGE is prove. USA can not. USA is WEAKEST, all presidents are in power by the SOFTEST STUPID democratic elections, foreign enemy don't kill Dotard also the Yankees will kill him 1st. CCP leader killed 100million Chinese during civil wars with KMT to come to power.

What is Trade War to CCP?

What is Financial Losses of ANY amount to CCP?

What is starvation and suffering to CCP?


CCP is the type of regime that will get firmer and stronger into power especially when war and deaths and losses are going on. More Carnage more Damages more losses is VERY GOOD FOR CCP.

Sorry, not for USA! Not at all! Absolutely the reversed!


Your STUPIDITY of expecting to count damages to predict the outcome, is Absolutely Baseless.

In the 3rd place, after 1st & 2nd, to fight against such as SICK & DYING USA, is too easy, it does not even need China, the economic strength of Russia, or half dead Japan, or just 2 to 3 (out of over 30 provinces) provinces of China, are sufficient to KILL USA economy, if played out by the kind of advantage clutched within CCP's hands. Playing show hands gamble to kill USA literally dead meat economy.

In the 4th place, Dotard is a VERY STUPID EGOISTIC MAGA IDIOT. He is a 6 TIME BANKRUPT. His 7th time bankruptcy will be one that WHOLE USA is beyond any rescue, beyond any hope. He is not a normal character, is the world' top clown. 10X more ridiculous and opposed and hated by billions on the planet. Must worst than ABNN Ah Neh Turban Modi. He CAN NOT WIN ANYTHING against anybody! Nobody give him respect nor cooperation. Even Kim Jong Nuke from poorest economy still win against Dotard, with total economic war against NK, Kim is still the winner. With Trade War against Beijing? 1000 Dotard president also got no chance!
 
China spending too much on defence when there is no threat.


Rubbish!

Even if there is no threat, Chinese cultural values, 孙子兵法 still says offensive is best defense. The reality in this world is: ALL will DIE unless someone is strongly getting rid of the rest, drastically and rapidly reduce to consumption & total population level to a tiny level, BELOW the minimum amount that the near completely destroyed planet eco system can self-recover. Otherwise no chance to avoid a Total Extinction Suicide.

Only unrealistic and ignorant idiots, think there is nothing wrong, and we should spend money to pamper people make everyone enjoy max happiness, and tomorrow will always be brighter future.

Every amount of resources must be spent NOT FOR PEACE, NOT FOR PROSPERITY, but for RESTORING the drastically lost VITAL BALANCE on planet earth. Spend on war is correct if your aim of war is to rid global population level by billions, and fall the total global population level into millions. If you purpose of war is to prevent carnage, and give billions of people peace and enjoy good lives, then you are bigger idiot then all the animals. The animals at least won't do silly massive total extinction suicide, nor animals could cause man to perish. Man is more stupid than animals, to cause every living thing on earth towards total destruction.
 
I prefer countries like new zealand where there is no army snd country has plenty of food.small country can export food to china.
 
I prefer countries like new zealand where there is no army snd country has plenty of food.small country can export food to china.


This is Ang Moh's Santa Claus idea. Not realistic. When Kim Jong Nuke popped USA with Hwasong ICBM 5~10 warheads, 100 million American Refugees will flee everywhere, Canada Australia NZ will see 50 million refugees flooding, and later all die of famine.
 
Markets crashed today

China responded with tariffs and pledged to buy more US goods (by transfering orders from US allies Korea, Japan, Singapore to US) to reduce trade in-balance. ahahah
 
Markets crashed today

China responded with tariffs and pledged to buy more US goods (by transfering orders from US allies Korea, Japan, Singapore to US) to reduce trade in-balance. ahahah
What about durians? Will they buy US durians? That will kill jiuhu planters.
 
trade war? not that i am a china supporter
i dont think many countries give a fuck about the USD anymore since they started printing like toilet paper
they essentially buy your products and print money to pay you
 
trade war? not that i am a china supporter
i dont think many countries give a fuck about the USD anymore since they started printing like toilet paper
they essentially buy your products and print money to pay you

This trade war is very special.
machiam a plot by both Trump and Xi when they met in Beijing.

Overall, China and US will enjoy net gains from the trade war (some companies lose, more will gain within their country).
Who die?
- Suppliers of semi-products to Chinese and American assembly plants
- Trading countries (buy China goods to export to US, and vice versa)
 
trade war? not that i am a china supporter
i dont think many countries give a fuck about the USD anymore since they started printing like toilet paper
they essentially buy your products and print money to pay you
They cannot anyhow print money.
Must sell bond and see if anybody wants it. As long as there is demand, no problem.
 
This trade war is very special.
machiam a plot by both Trump and Xi when they met in Beijing.

Overall, China and US will enjoy net gains from the trade war (some companies lose, more will gain within their country).
Who die?
- Suppliers of semi-products to Chinese and American assembly plants
- Trading countries (buy China goods to export to US, and vice versa)
Assuming US and china stop trading, US save USD250 billion in outflow to china. This is how china became wealthy. But china not sharing its wealth with others.
 
They cannot anyhow print money.
Must sell bond and see if anybody wants it. As long as there is demand, no problem.


yes the US treasury issues the bonds (IOU)
but the federal reserve buys the bonds by issuing cheques drawn on an account that has NO money at all

this has been going on for decades

 
New America started from opium money rebuilding
America.

New US will end up smoking opium, stressed, they want to get rid of Pommies to chase them back to UK.



This is Ang Moh's Santa Claus idea. Not realistic. When Kim Jong Nuke popped USA with Hwasong ICBM 5~10 warheads, 100 million American Refugees will flee everywhere, Canada Australia NZ will see 50 million refugees flooding, and later all die of famine.
 
[QUOTE"]This trade war is very special.
machiam a plot by both Trump and Xi when they met in Beijing.

Overall, China and US will enjoy net gains from the trade war (some companies lose, more will gain within their country).
Who die?
- Suppliers of semi-products to Chinese and American assembly plants
- Trading countries (buy China goods to export to US, and vice versa)[/QUOTE]

Chinese and US stock market did not crash yesterday.
The rest of the world got killed.
 
Chinese and US stock market did not crash yesterday.
The rest of the world got killed.

market has stabilized as it thinks this is new normal - that trade between u.s. and china will be more fair and balanced with china succumbing to pressures and buying more u.s. products. and u.s. consumers settling with garbage products from china at higher prices. the net result is that u.s. consumers will simply shun made in china products and buy made in somewhere else products. anyway, that is already happening before the trade war. made in china products, especially clothing, shoes, bags and toys, are left on shelves unsold and retailers have to change them out for made in thailand, bangladesh, vietnam, sri lanka, etc. products. made in china stuff is associated with toxicity, poison, low quality, poor materials, poor workmanship, lack of durability, fake goods, and simply disgust from all the horror stories of injuries, deaths, cancer, safety issues, etc. good riddance to bad rubbish.
 
market has stabilized as it thinks this is new normal - that trade between u.s. and china will be more fair and balanced with china succumbing to pressures and buying more u.s. products. and u.s. consumers settling with garbage products from china at higher prices. the net result is that u.s. consumers will simply shun made in china products and buy made in somewhere else products. anyway, that is already happening before the trade war. made in china products, especially clothing, shoes, bags and toys, are left on shelves unsold and retailers have to change them out for made in thailand, bangladesh, vietnam, sri lanka, etc. products. made in china stuff is associated with toxicity, poison, low quality, poor materials, poor workmanship, lack of durability, fake goods, and simply disgust from all the horror stories of injuries, deaths, cancer, safety issues, etc. good riddance to bad rubbish.

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