• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Something unusual in this recession .....

Watchman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sunday, July 12, 2009
Something unusual in this recession .....

If the US economy did not recover in the last quarter, this will be the longest recession since the Great Depression more than 70 years ago. The current recession started in Dec 2007. The recession for Singapore will be just as long. So this will be the longest recession in my lifetime and yours (unless there are 80 yr olds reading this blog).

Here are the worst past recessions from the US National Bureau of Economic Research:
1929-33: 43 months
1910-12: 24 months
1913-14: 23 months
1920-21: 18 months
1973-75: 16 months
1980-81: 16 months


I'm old enough to remember the 1980s recession and every recession since. Some of you may remember the 70s oil-shock recession....I was around but too young to remember. On paper this is a deep harsh recession, the worse since the Great Depression. You can compare all the post-war American recessions here. The US unemployment hit 9.4% and is almost certain to get to double digits. For Singapore, the numbers from first quarter has been shocking - the decline in Q1 2009 was the worst quarter ever since Singapore became independent. Manufacturing shranked by 29%....you can read a good summary here. So going by the numbers this is clearly the worse recession since 1933.

Observing people and behavior, I notice, given the severity of this recession, there is something unsual going on. I notice there is a lack of fear among many people compared with other recessions. Among my friends a few were fearful for a few weeks when there was direct and clear risk that they will be retrenched but after that their fear disappeared. I observe that level of fear was far higher in the 80s, 1998 and 2003 recession. Someone observed and posted in the comments section of my blog that people are still spending, shopping centers seems to be as crowded as before and restaurants appear to be doing well etc like nothing bad is happening. Taxi drivers I spoke to tell me that business is off the high but not catastrophic....in the 2003 recession quite horrible for the taxi business....people just cut back until taxi drivers were better off giving up driving because they can't overcome the rental. I remember walking around in empty shopping centers, eating in empty restaurants in past recessions. What is going on? I thought about it for sometime and I think I have the answer.

In the 1980s, the way people were employed to do work was completely different. When you join a company, there was a good chance you would stay for a decade or longer. The Japanese companies more or less were still practising lifetime employment and the attitude was to keep workers "come what may". So when companies go bust in the 80s recession, you're laying off people who had been in the company for decades and that was really painful. In the 80s recession, when the company was not doing well workers were really worried because they had been employed for years in the company and looking for another job was something they did not expect to do. Over the next 2 decades, jobs security vanished as companies adopted hire-and-fire policies. IT professionals now are used to 2 or even 1 year contracts. When contract ends, the companies have the option not to renew it to cut costs and retrench people. Many of my friends have had 4-5 jobs over the last 10 years. Looking for another job has become routine for many people so is the experience of losing a job. The only difference between the good times and bad for many younger people is the time it takes to find a job and the income. As there was already 2 recessions before this one in the last 10 years, more people became used to the lack of job security. There is still fear now among people in their 40s in 'unstable' jobs but this fear is existed in the good times anyway so people learn to live with it, hedge against it with backup plans and so on. For the bottom 20%, living in relative poverty, life has been miserable throughout the good years the threshold for pain has probably increased and diminishing expectations of a better life makes this recession just another bad thing that happened to them in a long struggle to stay afloat in Singapore.

Bad things happen often enough people get used to it. It is still just as painful when bad things happen but people are not paralysed by the fear of it happening. This is the 1st time ever that we see prices for HDB flat going straight up to new highs during a recession and COE rising as unemployment goes up. While I've explained that immigration might have something to do with the rising demand but to push prices to record levels during a recession requires a lack of fear. We see the same lack of fear in the private property market - since February 2009, buyers have snapped up as many units each month as in 2007 [Link].

The willingness of Singaporeans to continue to spending will do little to take us out of recession. We are still dependent on western economies for demand and growth. The unemployment rate stands at 4.9% and is still rising, the pain of being unemployed for an extended period is still the same regardless of whether there is fear of it happening or not....
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Bad things happen often enough people get used to it.

Why they dun find ways to overcome the bad things and just let the bad things screw them. Getting used to bad things are words used by losers.

If they keep on with this attitude, they will get screw deeper and deeper. THere are so many materials to get educated to overcome such ordeal, they just need to make the move.
 

besotted

Alfrescian
Loyal
HDB prices at all time high, banks fighting to give out mortgage loans - the bank loan is cheaper than HDB loan by 1% !!!!!

WHAT RECESSION? Have you seen the flocks at the weekend show house launches, have you seen how packed St James on Saturday, where people open bottle like crazy, have you seen how packed Vivo is until no space to walk

There is no recession for most people, of course there are some retrenched bankers who formerly sold Lehman products
 

hockbeng

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sunday, July 12, 2009
Something unusual in this recession .....

If the US economy did not recover in the last quarter, this will be the longest recession since the Great Depression more than 70 years ago. The current recession started in Dec 2007. The recession for Singapore will be just as long. So this will be the longest recession in my lifetime and yours (unless there are 80 yr olds reading this blog).

Here are the worst past recessions from the US National Bureau of Economic Research:
1929-33: 43 months
1910-12: 24 months
1913-14: 23 months
1920-21: 18 months
1973-75: 16 months
1980-81: 16 months


I'm old enough to remember the 1980s recession and every recession since. Some of you may remember the 70s oil-shock recession....I was around but too young to remember. On paper this is a deep harsh recession, the worse since the Great Depression. You can compare all the post-war American recessions here. The US unemployment hit 9.4% and is almost certain to get to double digits. For Singapore, the numbers from first quarter has been shocking - the decline in Q1 2009 was the worst quarter ever since Singapore became independent. Manufacturing shranked by 29%....you can read a good summary here. So going by the numbers this is clearly the worse recession since 1933.

Observing people and behavior, I notice, given the severity of this recession, there is something unsual going on. I notice there is a lack of fear among many people compared with other recessions. Among my friends a few were fearful for a few weeks when there was direct and clear risk that they will be retrenched but after that their fear disappeared. I observe that level of fear was far higher in the 80s, 1998 and 2003 recession. Someone observed and posted in the comments section of my blog that people are still spending, shopping centers seems to be as crowded as before and restaurants appear to be doing well etc like nothing bad is happening. Taxi drivers I spoke to tell me that business is off the high but not catastrophic....in the 2003 recession quite horrible for the taxi business....people just cut back until taxi drivers were better off giving up driving because they can't overcome the rental. I remember walking around in empty shopping centers, eating in empty restaurants in past recessions. What is going on? I thought about it for sometime and I think I have the answer.

In the 1980s, the way people were employed to do work was completely different. When you join a company, there was a good chance you would stay for a decade or longer. The Japanese companies more or less were still practising lifetime employment and the attitude was to keep workers "come what may". So when companies go bust in the 80s recession, you're laying off people who had been in the company for decades and that was really painful. In the 80s recession, when the company was not doing well workers were really worried because they had been employed for years in the company and looking for another job was something they did not expect to do. Over the next 2 decades, jobs security vanished as companies adopted hire-and-fire policies. IT professionals now are used to 2 or even 1 year contracts. When contract ends, the companies have the option not to renew it to cut costs and retrench people. Many of my friends have had 4-5 jobs over the last 10 years. Looking for another job has become routine for many people so is the experience of losing a job. The only difference between the good times and bad for many younger people is the time it takes to find a job and the income. As there was already 2 recessions before this one in the last 10 years, more people became used to the lack of job security. There is still fear now among people in their 40s in 'unstable' jobs but this fear is existed in the good times anyway so people learn to live with it, hedge against it with backup plans and so on. For the bottom 20%, living in relative poverty, life has been miserable throughout the good years the threshold for pain has probably increased and diminishing expectations of a better life makes this recession just another bad thing that happened to them in a long struggle to stay afloat in Singapore.

Bad things happen often enough people get used to it. It is still just as painful when bad things happen but people are not paralysed by the fear of it happening. This is the 1st time ever that we see prices for HDB flat going straight up to new highs during a recession and COE rising as unemployment goes up. While I've explained that immigration might have something to do with the rising demand but to push prices to record levels during a recession requires a lack of fear. We see the same lack of fear in the private property market - since February 2009, buyers have snapped up as many units each month as in 2007 [Link].

The willingness of Singaporeans to continue to spending will do little to take us out of recession. We are still dependent on western economies for demand and growth. The unemployment rate stands at 4.9% and is still rising, the pain of being unemployed for an extended period is still the same regardless of whether there is fear of it happening or not....

1 word - Complacency
 

FuckSamLeong

Alfrescian
Loyal
HDB prices at all time high, banks fighting to give out mortgage loans - the bank loan is cheaper than HDB loan by 1% !!!!!

WHAT RECESSION? Have you seen the flocks at the weekend show house launches, have you seen how packed St James on Saturday, where people open bottle like crazy, have you seen how packed Vivo is until no space to walk

There is no recession for most people, of course there are some retrenched bankers who formerly sold Lehman products

Bogus restaurant owner, hater of local but promoter of FT taxi drivers and workers. And now promoting bank rates.

Before you start doing cheerleading for POSB after testing the waters, why don't you inform all that it's for first time buyers and that will mean in the near future HDB will stop providing loans for HDB homes.

You are PAP IB aren't you? How is the Sichuan slut?


More than just the first home loan pegged to CPF rates, POSB Home Ideal First is the first to offer you a 7-day return policy.

Because only POSB knows you need added assurance for your first home loan.

Buying your first home is probably the biggest and most exciting event of your life. Which is why getting the right home loan is important.

POSB Home Ideal First is the first home loan in the market created for first-time home owners like you in mind.


Enjoy exclusive benefits with POSB Home Ideal First.


7-day return policy - a 'first' in the market
We know that you need added assurance for your first home loan. That is why we are offering you a 7-day return policy, which allows you to assess if the loan suits your needs.


Flexible Monthly Instalment Payments
Choose the monthly repayment amount you are most comfortable with so that you can manage your cashflow.


Loyalty Rewards
If you already have an existing HDB loan with us, you get to enjoy special benefits on your next home loan when you upgrade to your first private property.


CPF-pegged Interest Rates
You will continue to enjoy transparency on your home loan rates since CPF rates are known to the public. You also enjoy stability of rates as the historical trend shows that the CPF Ordinary Account rate has remained at 2.5% p.a. since July 1999.





Home in on POSB Home Ideal First. Sign up today.

So, whether you are buying your first HDB flat or private property, or upgrading to your first private property, talk to us today for a home loan that stays true to your needs as first-time home owners.

Click here to speak to a Home Advice Specialist today. Alternatively, you may visit any POSB branch or call us at 6333 0033.

Collect your A-Z Guide for first-time home owners from any POSB branch today!



Terms and Conditions
1. 7-day refers to 7 calendar days from the date of acceptance of the housing loan.
2. Applicable to selected packages only.
3. The Bank reserves the right to vary the interest rate if any of the following conditions occur:
i. CPF Board changes the basis of computation for CPF rates;
ii. Changes to the CPF Act which governs the CPF rates; or
iii. Any other condition that the Bank may impose from time to time.

4. Historical rates are not necessarily indicative of future interest rates.

Other terms and conditions apply. All information correct at time of publishing.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION


The Bank may vary the interest rate from time to time. If the interest rate is revised, the monthly instalments will be based on the revised interest rate and may be increased or reduced.


An interest rate quoted for a particular housing loan applies only to that housing loan package, and may differ from the interest rates offered to other customers for other types of housing loan facilities.


To assist you in your planning, we are pleased to provide upon request from any of our branches, loan repayment schedules in respect of our home loan packages.

Note: The Association of Banks in Singapore (ABS) has published a "Guide on Home Loans", and you are encouraged to read this before committing to any housing loan. The guide is available on MAS' and ABS' websites in the four official languages. Copies of the guide are also available at any of our branches.
 
Last edited:

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
Actually, I am not sure if the recession technically started in Dec 2007 hasn't ended. In 2008, there was positive growth.
 

besotted

Alfrescian
Loyal
Guarantee you Tuesday when data is released, it will show that economy has emerged from recession

But we already know that from the surge in STI since March as well as the property index

COEs shooting up like nobody's business, property sales skyrocketing, shopping malls packed, nightclubs full
 

besotted

Alfrescian
Loyal
Don't be like the loser downgrader, keep downgrading until he has not more guts to do anything

His whole life has been siam siam siam and now he has a Jilin woman, he doesn't dare commit despite a woman who is so much younger and so in love

He thinks he is free but I think he is chained by his fears
 

TeeKee

Alfrescian
Loyal
Fear, Anxiety and Worry…
What does the Bible say?

“An anxious heart weighs a man down, but a kind word cheers him up” (Proverbs 12:25, NIV).

“I sought the LORD, and he heard me, and delivered me from all my fears” (Psalm 34:4).

“Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:6-7).

“Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you” (1 Peter 5:6-7) (Also see Psalm 55:22-23)

“Then Jesus said to his disciples: ‘Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?’” (Luke 12:22-26, NIV). (Also see Matthew 6:25-34)

“Why are you downcast, O my soul? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God” (Psalm 42:5).

“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil. This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones” (Proverbs 3:5-8).

“…the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will. And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:26-28).

“And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:19).

“I can do everything through him who gives me strength” (Philippians 4:13).

The apostle Paul found his strength in God, He reminds us that, “I …have …been in prison …frequently, been flogged …severely, and been exposed to death again and again. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. …I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. …Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn? If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. …I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. …[God] said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.’ Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong” (2 Corinthians 11:23-12:10).

“So we say with confidence, ‘The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?’” (Hebrews 13:6).

“…put your hope in the LORD both now and forevermore.” (Psalm 131:1)

Also read: Psalm 139:1-23

The possible causes of anxiety and fear are many: Conflict, health problems, dangerous situations, death, unmet needs, spiritual problems, false beliefs, etc.

“According to the Bible, there is nothing wrong with realistically acknowledging and trying to deal with the identifiable problems of life. To ignore danger is fooling and wrong. But it is also wrong, as well as unhealthy, to be immobilized by excessive worry. Such worry must be committed to prayer to God, who can release us from paralyzing fear or anxiety, and free us to deal realistically with the needs and welfare both of others and of ourselves.” (Dr. Gary R. Collins, Christian Counseling, p. 66.)

Some general, common sense suggestions for those weighed down with fear, anxiety or worry…

SIN IN YOUR LIFE - Sometimes fear and anxiety are the result of one’s own sin and guilt. If you have committed a sin or done anything evil, your fear and anxiety is probably God and your own conscience trying to get your attention. You need to repent, confess your sin, seek God’s forgiveness, and set it right.

SLEEP - Humans generally need 8 or 9 hours of sleep per day. Sleep deprivation can increase anxiety. Get enough rest. If you cannot sleep, you may need to seek God’s help and perhaps that of a physician.

BE MORE REALISTIC - Many people are worried and anxious about events that will never actually will happen to them. Relax. Focus on today. Take life one day at a time.

LISTEN to relaxing, soothing music. There is some great Christian music available that can help you focus on God and leave your fears and worries behind. It may also help to listen to good Christian speakers and teachers.

FUN - If at all possible, do something that you enjoy. It is good to get some recreation on a regular basis. Take a break. Get your mind off your fears and worries, and have some fun.

TALK to someone. Don’t hold all the anxiety inside. It can be a big relief to share your fears and worries with someone else—a friend, relative, pastor or counselor. If fear and anxiety is an ongoing problem in your life, schedule a regular time each week to talk with someone.

TAKE ACTION - If there is something practical and wise that you can do to alleviate the problem or avoid needless danger, take action. Don’t put it off. Procrastination will generally raise your anxiety level.

EXERCISE - Medical studies show that exercise can help lower anxiety. If you are healthy enough to exercise, try it. Regular brisk walks, running, swimming or other exercises can be a real stress reducer.

PROFESSIONAL HELP - There are various organizations which provide help for people with anxiety attacks, including the Midwest Center for Stress and Anxiety (stresscenter.com) which provides self-help. You can search for information and assistance on the Web using keywords such as: anxiety, panic attacks, agoraphobia. You should be able to find local help by consulting you pastor or physician.
“Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work” (2 Thes. 2:16-17).


[ If this information has been helpful, please prayerfully consider a donation to help pay the expenses for making this faith-building service available to you and your family! Donations are tax-deductible. ]

Author: Paul Taylor, Eden Communications.
 

SamuelStalin

Alfrescian
Loyal
Bad things happen often enough people get used to it. It is still just as painful when bad things happen but people are not paralysed by the fear of it happening.

That goes for recession too I thought, before coming to that line. If you are a citizen of this world, you should get used to recessions. I believe in an average person's lifespan he will encounter at least 3 recessions minimum and up to 5 or more if he had the good fortune for a time extension.

Whining about it takes you nowhere.
 

SamuelStalin

Alfrescian
Loyal
This is the 1st time ever that we see prices for HDB flat going straight up to new highs during a recession and COE rising as unemployment goes up.

The willingness of Singaporeans to continue to spending will do little to take us out of recession. We are still dependent on western economies for demand and growth. The unemployment rate stands at 4.9% and is still rising, the pain of being unemployed for an extended period is still the same regardless of whether there is fear of it happening or not....[/SIZE]

You want to see a tremendous fall in HDB flat prices? Maybe when hell freezes over.

And no, Mr. Economics Expert, spending boosts the economy, in more ways than you can ever imagine as well. The Japanese government would only WISH their own people would spend like Singaporeans, which is what they need in order to stimulate their flagging economy. Hoarders are a burden to the country.
 

SamuelStalin

Alfrescian
Loyal
Stability especially fiscal is not to be found in the establishment or the economy. It is to be found within yourself and the choices you take in both the good and bad seasons.
 

besotted

Alfrescian
Loyal
Guarantee you Tuesday when data is released, it will show that economy has emerged from recession

But we already know that from the surge in STI since March as well as the property index

COEs shooting up like nobody's business, property sales skyrocketing, shopping malls packed, nightclubs full



See? Told you... Economy rockets 20% to come out of recession

I will give my staff a special bonus end of this month to reward them for their hard work and faith
 

Leegimeremover

Alfrescian
Loyal
You want to see a tremendous fall in HDB flat prices? Maybe when hell freezes over.

And no, Mr. Economics Expert, spending boosts the economy, in more ways than you can ever imagine as well. The Japanese government would only WISH their own people would spend like Singaporeans, which is what they need in order to stimulate their flagging economy. Hoarders are a burden to the country.

Not so fast. The only reason why most other OECD countries cannot spend their way out is because they are in deficit. There are caveats to spending your way out. One is you need to have some sort of money in the first place in the Treasury. In periods of depression, spending not necessarily gives you the magic multiplier number that you wish. The fact that past statistic numbers give you that beautiful coefficient is no guarantee it will occur again, especially, during depressions. Building like crazy is basically buying time to tide through the wait.
 
Top