NS for adult new citizens not practical

[MarrickG]

I REFER to last Friday's letter by Mr Michael Ang, 'Make English and modified NS a must'.

National service (NS) is not merely a rite of passage for young male Singaporeans. It was conceived with a specific objective to build up a citizens' army to defend Singapore militarily. This objective remains true today.

It is tempting to argue that foreigners should do NS as a price to pay for Singapore citizenship because many view NS as a liability borne by Singaporeans. However, NS functions as part of a wider framework of the war-fighting doctrine of the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF), as well as Singapore's national development. Manpower requirements, including those for conscription, must be meticulously identified and implemented.

Many foreigners coming to Singapore are in their late 20s or older. They are already economically productive and can immediately contribute to Singapore's economy. It makes little sense to disrupt their activities for two years. Whatever social networks they have developed would also need to be rebuilt.

Having modified NS is feasible only if it fits in with the overall requirements of the SAF and complements its capability. It is a waste of resources if it exists only to make some people 'serve their duty'.

Furthermore, the largest army corps is the infantry and this is where the SAF needs the most people. However, studies in other countries have shown that the specific kind of fitness needed for infantry soldiers, involving a combination of agility, stamina and tolerance of sleep deprivation, starts to degrade from the late 20s onwards. This is why armies across the world have a lower maximum age to join the infantry.

Xiao Fuchun

http://www.straitstimes.com/ST+Forum/Story/STIStory_415050.html

 

[Yoshitei]

Make them serve as nurses in old folks homes for 2.5 years, that should solve the problem.

 

[wikiphile]

Or male whores in another part of Geylang for 2 years as 'community' service for lao tee koh, then no need to bang 15 year old schoolboys and eat rotan

 

[annexa]

Many foreigners coming to Singapore are in their late 20s or older. They are already economically productive and can immediately contribute to Singapore's economy. It makes little sense to disrupt their activities for two years. Whatever social networks they have developed would also need to be rebuilt.

Thank you for saying that Sinkies should not serve NS so that they will be economically productive FASTER by TWO years.

Send foreigner to NS is allow you idiots to NETWORK with sinkies what! What's your problem?

Perfect prove that Gahmen is attracting trash and not talents. Cannot even think properly!

 

[Char_Azn]

I can never understand why so many pple wants FTs to be in NS. I personally do not agree with that and I also want to see PR's kids who are not citizen out of NS. Foreigners should have no business getting involved in our military setup and learning our military doctrine and capabilities. What if one day they return home and we need to fight against them? They already know everything about us, coz we spent thousands of dollars to train them for their army.

As for new citizens, I dun see the point in making them do NS. It'll just waste more taxpayer's money. I think its a better idea to force them to do community service with a charitable org instead

 

[2lanu]

This guy does not know what he is talking about. He is as good as just wrinting for the sake of it.

NS has a broad spectum of vocation and he just pinpointed his arguement on just the infantry which is the tougest in term of physcial attribute. If that too siong for him, he can also go be a combat engineer (aka bomb picker). All he need is a bayonet to poke the earth for mines. :P

And infantry being the physcial demanding vocation? Unfortunately white scums dun think so and it was paid the lowest than their ministers who only use their brain juices and got paid millions. When an infantryman lose a bullet, he is chargable for 7 years. But minister let terrorist escape, they merely said what to do, let's move on...

If this peabrain writer think that late 20s physcial had went down, why did the f**king laws mandate infantrymen liable for duties till 40? Apparently this writer is sprouting nonsense! :oIo:

Last point, infantry will not fight for those "foreigners". I had never heard any single men in the right frame of mind will. Where is the logic? Maybe the white scum had did their stunt again to empty promise those idiots again.

 

[2lanu]

Many foreigners coming to Singapore are in their late 20s or older. They are already economically productive and can immediately contribute to Singapore's economy. It makes little sense to disrupt their activities for two years. Whatever social networks they have developed would also need to be rebuilt.

They are here to build the economy and it's not performing rite now? So why are they here?

Can he explain this? Dun give the standard white scum excuse like "external factor" hor...

 

[2lanu]

I can never understand why so many pple wants FTs to be in NS. I personally do not agree with that and I also want to see PR's kids who are not citizen out of NS. Foreigners should have no business getting involved in our military setup and learning our military doctrine and capabilities. What if one day they return home and we need to fight against them? They already know everything about us, coz we spent thousands of dollars to train them for their army.

As for new citizens, I dun see the point in making them do NS. It'll just waste more taxpayer's money. I think its a better idea to force them to do community service with a charitable org instead

Asking them to pay more tax? They would have ship out to the next cheaper place in no time.

The best is to put a nuclear bomb at Oxley or Istana. Any offenders want to invade here just trigger the timer and "celebrate" together.

 

[junkmail]

It is only fair that foreign-born Singaporeans share the burden of National Service.

Perhaps as part of the emigration policies, these adult foreigners will have to go through a 3-months basic military training and thereafter function as a reservist.

Otherwise all they do is to say the pledge with tears in their eyes. Or write letters saying how good Singapore is. Well, Singapore is good - to them. And, for them.

Already we have the situation whereby foreigners are given the red carpet whilst singaporeans bear the cost of the red carpet.

Well, almost all singaporeans. Some singaporeans have their work and jobs protected.

 

[littlefish]

My solution:

Pay all NSFs the same rate as for regulars. For reservists, they need to be paid for their ICT (regular rate) on top of their make-up pay. This is to compensate for the disruption caused to their normal daily routine. RT to be abolished but incentive scheme for IPPT should remain to encourage people to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

Where to get all the money? Tax all non-citizen workers and business owners. For example, we put a monetary value on say, an average soldier's salary for 2 years in the army, let's say $60K. Anyone wishing to come to Singapore will need to pay this amount to the government. If they do not have the money, they are allowed to pay by installments over 10 years (will be adjusted for inflation) but that means that they will only be given a renewable 3-month working permit. At the end of 3 months, they will need to pay $1500 (adjusted for inflation every quarter) if they want to renew their work permit or leave the country.

Only after the $60K has been fully paid up are they allowed to convert to citizenship (no exceptions even if you came in as a young student). The $60K is on top of all the normal taxes they need to pay. There, I have just put a price on the Singapore citizenship.

Too complicated? I have an easier solution, just have 6 months of NS where recruits are given fitness and small arms training (on full pay of course). My view is that as long as everyone is proficient in handling a rifle and can get easy access to it during an emergency, that is sufficient for defence. Those who want a career in the armed forces can still sign on as regulars, it is just that the Army will be on a much smaller scale (maybe just infantry and special forces). The Air Force and Navy remain as they are.

 

[junkmail]

It does not make sense for singaporeans to defend the lives of these foreign-born singaporeans.

All singaporeans, local and foreign, must pull their weight in defending this beloved country, Singapore.

 

[Char_Azn]

Too complicated? I have an easier solution, just have 6 months of NS where recruits are given fitness and small arms training (on full pay of course). My view is that as long as everyone is proficient in handling a rifle and can get easy access to it during an emergency, that is sufficient for defence. Those who want a career in the armed forces can still sign on as regulars, it is just that the Army will be on a much smaller scale (maybe just infantry and special forces). The Air Force and Navy remain as they are.

Actually, I think tactical training as a unit as a whole is just as important if not more so then knowing how to use small arms. You can teach the use of a rifle in a day, but you need a lot of time for the men to work as a fighting unit as a whole.

 

[ThePlen]

who is Xiao Fuchun? sounds like an FT too

 

[johnny333]

I can never understand why so many pple wants FTs to be in NS.

NS is just cheap labour for the PAP. If locals have to contribute why shouldn't New Sporeans have to pay the same NS price, if they want to live & work in Spore

As for SAF secrets, what secrets are there Everyone already knows that the SAF is a cockup organisation :p

 

[2lanu]

My solution:

Pay all NSFs the same rate as for regulars. For reservists, they need to be paid for their ICT (regular rate) on top of their make-up pay. This is to compensate for the disruption caused to their normal daily routine. RT to be abolished but incentive scheme for IPPT should remain to encourage people to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

Apparantly what you stated will not work out. White scum know the sums well. To pay all NS full pay, it will bankrupt them in no time! The annual defence budget is about S$10B. This will led to budget surge up another $5B maybe. Surplus all eaten up.

And by taxing more on foreigners or PR, they sure leave immediate to somewhere more attractive.

So white scum only mean is to con the naive. Promise them of "future" that are far far into... Ask them to "love the cuntry" and if needed die for her. :oIo:

Who so stupid to do so? They themselves are not doing yet they dare say that!

 

[2lanu]

Actually, I think tactical training as a unit as a whole is just as important if not more so then knowing how to use small arms. You can teach the use of a rifle in a day, but you need a lot of time for the men to work as a fighting unit as a whole.

This is paper talk only lah. There is no heart in serve this shit NS in the first place. Imagine during NS, the combat strength is only about 2/3 full. Reservist I can only see 1/3 of the strength.

Units merged and still under strength and have to ask NS units to help up otherwise cannot go battle...

But on the other hand, clerks strength are piling up even RSM joked that he can get a company of clerks to fall in! Hahaha...

 

[Watchman]

WHy adults not practical !
Scholarship also work for below par market rate .
Why not adults too doing National Service !

 

[2lanu]

NS is just cheap labour for the PAP. If locals have to contribute why shouldn't New Sporeans have to pay the same NS price, if they want to live & work in Spore

As for SAF secrets, what secrets are there Everyone already knows that the SAF is a cockup organisation :p

It is as good as stupid dun you think so. If you are going to another country to work, will you want to go somewhere where you have to serve NS or even pay higher tax??

SAF cockup? I guess they have hidden agendas too! Imagine during war you realise the regulars, General, Colonel are all staying behind warfront. Only asking the NSmen to charge forward while they take cover.

But when come to promotion, bonus and pensions, they all first to go up and receive! :oIo:

Uniquely Singapore...Like that also can...

 

[littlefish]

Actually, I think tactical training as a unit as a whole is just as important if not more so then knowing how to use small arms. You can teach the use of a rifle in a day, but you need a lot of time for the men to work as a fighting unit as a whole.

Have you been thru NS? I am not sure if the enemy would be more afraid of your so called tactically-trained NSman or one who just knows how to fire his rifle properly. Even our Navy regulars can langgar a ship into a commercial vessel during peacetime.

Besides, all the tactics are generally aimed at offensive manoeuvres. The problem is that I don't think a strategy like that of Israel will work here (we will need to hold a lot of ground as buffer zones for an indeterminate period of time). So, if offence is not the answer, the next best deterrent would be to ensure that everyone is able to inflict damage while defending himself (especially in urban warfare).

If our enemies want to go to war with us, I am sure they will not announce to us that they will start dropping bombs on day X. Even with our Air Force fully operational, I don't think we will get sufficient warning due to our small size and close proximity. If the bombs are successfully dropped, half your tactically-trained NSmen may be wiped out before they can even go home to put on their No. 4s.

 

[Ramseth]

I used to know that there was a law, but I'm not sure if it's been changed. For male children born Singaporean citizen and in Singapore reaching age 7, he has to serve NS. His parents or guardians could only take him out of Singapore before reaching age 7 and has to renounce his citizenship also. After age 7, he can't renounce his citizenship until after the 2-year full-time NS.

Immigrants age 26 years 6 months or less at the time of taking up PR or citizenship are liable for full-time NS. Converted citizens that age or below must serve. PRs that age or below can choose to serve or leave.

Most Malaysian Chinese and PRC Chinese males are smarter and better informed than common Singaporeans think. They take up PR or citizenship after the age. That leaves the question for their sons if they start families here. Options are open, particularly for PRs, who can opt other citizenships for their sons before age 7.