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Muslim scholars are lying, Muhammud actually could read and write!

duluxe

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Mecca was, in the sixth century, the most important town of Arabia; not only a centre of annual pilgrimage, but also an extremely cosmopolitan centre, the city which had replaced the ancient palmyra and the still more ancient Tiema, and its population lived on commerce with Asia Minor, Syria, India and China,(1) but except for some fifteen individuals mentioned by name, all the pre-Hijrah inhabitants of the city were illiterate.(2) Only the Jews settled in Yemen, Khaybar, Yathrib, and Tiema could boast of the ability to read a Scripture, but there is nothing to show that their sacred books had been rendered into Arabic. The Christians were active in the highlands of Yemen, Najran, Ghassan, Hira, Bahrain and other islands of the Persian Gulf but the first versions of the Christian Scripture in Arabic date from eighth century.(3)No Arabic version of the Bible, or part of it, existed in the time of the Prophet.(4)The crown and seal of the Arabs' way of life was poetry, and the oldest extant Arabic poems date from 512 A.D., but it was nearly two centuries later that these were committed to writing.(5)There was virtually no prose written before the days of Islam. The Quran is the oldest Arabic Book in prose.(6) Historians refer to Mu'allaqat written in order to be hung on the walls of Ka'ba, as the first written records of the Arabs. (7) Do these conditions justify the presumption that "as a merchant he must have had a certain knowledge of reading and writing ?(8)


Muhammad was called a driveller, a star-gazer and a maniac-poet; thorns were strewn in his path, and stones thrown on him. His uncles sneered, and the main body of the citizens treated him with that contemptuous indifference which must have been harder to bear than active persecution, and there is no single trait in his character up to the time of the Hijrah which calumny itself could couple with imposture. (9) But the question is why the Prophet's detractors did not expose his pious fraud by showing that he could very well read and write while he claimed to be an unlettered Prophet? Would it not have been easier and more reasonable to refute the Prophet's revelations than to persecute the preacher? If this fact speaks for itself, how are we to account for such an insinuation by a learned scholar who says that the Prophet wished to pass for an illiterate? (10)

Not a moment of the Prophet's life, after his claim to apostleship, was spent in seclusion, away from the gaze of his followers. It is no less significant that the Apostle of Allah had given definite instructions to his followers that whatever they saw of him, saying or doing, amongst them or alone, in the mosque or in the battlefield, leading prayers or conducting wars, on the pulpit or in a closet, should invariably be brought to the notice of others. His wives, in consequence, freely talked about his private affairs while seventy of his followers lived close to his house in the mosque to learn all about him. Then, there were inhabitants of Medina who attended congregational prayers led by the Prophet, five times every day, for ten long years. There were also occasions when even a larger-number of people gathered round him, as, in the expeditions, when they spent a number of days with him. Everyone knew that it was a bounden duty lying upon him to tell others whatever he knew about the Messenger of Allah. Nothing about his life from the closet of his sleeping chamber to the market place thus ever remained a secret, and every bit of it was recorded and handed down from generation to generation. It is therefore, no wonder that we have several collections of reports about him which run into several hundred thousands. There are reports considered trustworthy on the criteria of criticism evolved by subsequent scholars, as well as those rejected by them. Is it not reasonable, then, in the given circumstances, to expect plenty of reports about the ability of the Prophet to read and write?

There has been no dearth of scholars, even in the West, who have reached the conclusion that the Prophet did not know how to read and write. Sale writes, "As to the acquired learning, it is confessed he had none at all; having had no other education than what was customary in his tribe, neglected, and perhaps despised, what we call literature. (11) Another competent scholar Dr. Theodor Noldeke, testifies: "For though it remains an open question whether Mohammad was actually ignorant of reading and writing, it is certain that he had neither read the Bible nor any other books". (12) The same author writes at another place that the Prophet "did not himself understand the language of writing". (13)There are, in fact, many more among Western scholars who have arrived at the same conclusion. (14)

We must now turn to the question as to why the Prophets unfamiliarity with the arts of reading and writing is an article of belief for the Muslims and whether the acceptance of the Quranic revelations as the Word of Allah depends, in any way, on this belief. The Quran, undoubtedly, adduces the Prophet's inability to read and write as one of the proofs of its divine origin, but this is by no means the only reason for the acceptance of the Quran as the Word of Allah. There are many more verses in the Quran which clearly state that it is a revelation from Allah. Some of these are given here to illustrate the point:

"He has revealed unto you (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, concerning that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Tourat and the Injil". (15)

"And if you are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah the like thereof, and call your witnesses beside Allah if you are truthful. And if you do it not - and you can never do it - then guard yourselves against the fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones". (16)

"Lo! Those who disbelieve in the Reminder when it comes unto them (are guilty), for lo! It is an unassailable Scripture. Falsehood can not come at it from before it or behind it. (It is) a revelation from the Wise, the Owner of Praise". (17)

"It is not poet's speech-little is it that you believe! nor diviner's speech-little is it that you remember! It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds". (18)
Truly speaking, one who has joined his faith to the apostleship of Muhammad must accept the divine origin of the Quran, irrespective of whether he was literate or not. If the Muslims believe that the Prophet was unlettered, it is because the Quran says so specifically, and not because their faith in the divine origin of the Quran depends on it. The matter is thus significant for the Muslims in so far as the fact of Muhammad's ignorance of reading and writing finds a place in the Divine writ; but, it has, perhaps, greater significance for those who deny it. By accepting the incontrovertible fact of Muhammad's inability to read and write, the question so pertinently posed by Rodwell: "If he was indeed the illiterate person, the Muslims represent him to have been, then it would be hard to escape the inference that the Koran is, as they assert it to be, a standing miracle," (19) stares them in the face demanding an answer. It is, indeed, an inexplicable dilemma for those who deny the divine origin of the Quran.

There is yet one more factor in which lies the clue to the modern insistence on Muhammad's ability to read and write. Living in an age deeply influenced by materialistic ways of thought, people tend to believe that every effect must have a 'cause'. That is why they reject everything beyond the material world, although, unfortunately, the ways of Allah are infinitely varied and complicated, and it is rarely possible to discern the cause of everything even though it may present itself as a hard fact before our eyes. Therefore, when they are asked to acknowledge that the Quran was revealed to an unlettered Prophet, most of them are apt to dismiss it as belonging to the realm of faith and belief. It may be that some who are steeped in the lore of other religions such as Christianity, which does not go beyond inspiration, find it difficult to appreciate the Islamic concept of revelation and prophethood. But the reason for rejecting the Islamic stand-point in this regard is modern rationalism, basing itself on the exclusive validity of judgments of human reason, which is but a reflection of intellect, tending towards the secular by nature. Human reason, although real on its own level, is but a limitation and dispersion of the Intellect and to that extent rooted in that illusory void which separates our existence from the ultimate Reality.
 
Muslims like to say, "how could a man who didn't know how to read or write produce the Koran?" Well first, Muhammad most certainly could read and write. The fact that he ran a major business proves he could. Unless he could read and write, he could not properly run his business affairs. Second, the Koran wasn't even written during the time of Muhammad, so even if he couldn't read or write, it is obvious he never saw the Koran, as Muslims have it today.

  1. Whatever Arabic tradition may have assumed from a wrong interpretation of a word in the Koran, it seems certain that Muhammad learned to read and write. But except for a few vague and unreliable pointers in his life and work we have no way of knowing the extent of his learning. (Mohammed, Maxime Rodinson, 1961, translated by Anne Carter, 1971, p 38-49)
  2. The Meccans were in general familiar with reading and writing. A certain amount of writing would be necessary for commercial purposes. (Muhammad's Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, Chapter 3: Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia, p26-53)
  3. In view of this familiarity with writing among the Meccans particularly, both for records and for religious scriptures, there is a presumption that Muhammad knew at least enough to keep commercial records. (Muhammad's Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, Chapter 3: Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia, p26-53)
  4. The probability is that Muhammad was able to read and write sufficiently for business purposes, but it seems certain that he had not read any scriptures. This conclusion gives Muslim scholars all that is essential for apologetic purposes. They have, however, argued that the word ummi which is applied to Muhammad implies complete inability to read and write. One of their arguments is that the plural ummiyyun in 2.78 means 'illiterate' or 'unlettered': 'among them are ummiyyun who do not know the book except from hearsay'. The rendering 'except from hearsay' (which is Pickthall's) is much disputed but hardly affects the argument. While kitab suggests writing as well as 'book', careful reading of the verse shows that the reference is to people without a written scripture, and Pickthall in fact translates kitdb as 'scripture'. This meaning suits the other instances where the plural occurs. In 3.75 some of the People of the Book say, 'We are not bound to justice in respect of the ummiyyun'; and from this it may be concluded that the word has been adopted from the People of the Book, that is, the Jews. The Jews, however, applied it to others and not to themselves, for in 3.20 Muhammad is commanded, 'Say to the People of the Book and the ummiyyun, Have you surrendered (to God)?' The ummiyynn, then, must be the non-Jews or Gentiles, who had no written scriptures and were in fact 'heathen' (as often translated); the word has presumably been derived from the Hebrew phrase ummot ha-'olan, the peoples of the world' or genies. This sense of ummi as 'Gentile' or 'unscriptured' fits the verses where it is applied to Muhammad: (God) it is who sent among the ummiyynn a messenger, (one) of themselves, to recite to them his signs, to purify them, and to teach them the Book and the wisdom, though before they were in clear error. (62.2) Again God is described as saying to Moses that his mercy will be 'written' for those 'who follow the. messenger, the ummi prophet, whom they find written in the Torah and the Evangel which they have . . .' (7.15 7). In the next verse Muhammad is commanded to address all the people and to conclude with the words: 'so believe in God, his messenger, the urnmi prophet, who believes in God and his words' (7.158 ). Thus the ummi' prophet is the non-Jewish or Gentile prophet, whom Muslims held to be foretold in the Bible, and who was sent by God to his own non-Jewish or heathen people, as well as to the Jews and perhaps the Christians. Thus ummi does not mean 'illiterate' in the strict sense, though it could be rendered 'unscriptured'; but this still means-as is indeed obvious-that Muhammad had no direct knowledge of the Bible. (Muhammad's Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, Chapter 3: Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia, p26-53)
 
Muslims like to say, "how could a man who didn't know how to read or write produce the Koran?

muhammad did not produce the koran. The koran was written by scribes, who supposedly wrote down what muhammad recited. One of the scribes left islam when he discovered that he could edit and improve the koran at will, with muhammad's approval of his editing. muhammad eventually had this scribe killed.

The koran was compiled decades after muhammad was dead. There was no way to confirm 100% that all the compilations were correct or attributed to muhammad. The next best way is to threaten to kill anyone who said otherwise. Besides, even the koran confirmed that itself is not 100% complete. A section of the koran was eaten by goats.
 
Mohamad could have written the Quran, but the original copy was burned and exterminated.
 
I can't understand why Duluxe is so anti-Quran and anti-Muhammad. Hello Duluxe! Should I take your antiism seriously. We all know this is a forum just to let off steam and some random ranting.

Muhammad's life in Arabia from 24 till 63 was well known. How could this simple piece of information about his literacy gone unnoticed. He was also known to the Jews in that region. There never was any instance mentioning the prophet did any reading of any letters or writing himself. It was Omar who was well known as a scribe, a person who lettered in the Arabic script.

Just ask this question. How many of the posters here would show great respect to another man - say Lee Hsien Loong - as a moral teacher. Or Madame Ho Ching. How many man of this age could receive the type of respect Muhammad received from his followers. Bear in mind that the followers of Muhammad are not the usual type of people like you and me of this computer keyboard warrior type. When Jerusalem surrendered to the Muslims, Omar went alone into the city to officially accept the city's surrender - no bodyguards!

Do you assume that the vast numbers of followers of the prophet were somehow delusional and so misguided as to accept a fraud as a prophet. How likely? It was the same with Confucius. He had 72 disciple and it was not without reason the 72 showed the greatest respect to Confucius.

Can Duluxe give a reason why the early Muslims showed the greatest respect for Muhammad or how they could have made great misjudgments.

Best regards,
Chan Rasjid.

"A Gift Of God And Isaac Newton"
"The Relativistic Mechanics of E=mc² Fails"; E=mc² is wrong.
"Is Mass Spectrometry Accurate?"; Penning trap cannot measure atomic mass; our nuclear physics wrong.
http://www.emc2fails.com
 
I can't understand why Duluxe is so anti-Quran and anti-Muhammad. Hello Duluxe! Should I take your antiism seriously. We all know this is a forum just to let off steam and some random ranting.

Muhammad's life in Arabia from 24 till 63 was well known. How could this simple piece of information about his literacy gone unnoticed. He was also known to the Jews in that region. There never was any instance mentioning the prophet did any reading of any letters or writing himself. It was Omar who was well known as a scribe, a person who lettered in the Arabic script.

Just ask this question. How many of the posters here would show great respect to another man - say Lee Hsien Loong - as a moral teacher. Or Madame Ho Ching. How many man of this age could receive the type of respect Muhammad received from his followers. Bear in mind that the followers of Muhammad are not the usual type of people like you and me of this computer keyboard warrior type. When Jerusalem surrendered to the Muslims, Omar went alone into the city to officially accept the city's surrender - no bodyguards!

Do you assume that the vast numbers of followers of the prophet were somehow delusional and so misguided as to accept a fraud as a prophet. How likely? It was the same with Confucius. He had 72 disciple and it was not without reason the 72 showed the greatest respect to Confucius.

Can Duluxe give a reason why the early Muslims showed the greatest respect for Muhammad or how they could have made great misjudgments.

Best regards,
Chan Rasjid.

"A Gift Of God And Isaac Newton"
"The Relativistic Mechanics of E=mc² Fails"; E=mc² is wrong.
"Is Mass Spectrometry Accurate?"; Penning trap cannot measure atomic mass; our nuclear physics wrong.
http://www.emc2fails.com
Hi. Just want to suggest an alternative to the above viewpoints. There seems to be good evidence of Muhammad's existence. How much of what he could read and write I have no idea though. My investigations point to Muhammad dying before the creation of Islam and the Koran. Much like how Jesus died before a bible was ever published.

So I would suggest that evidence points to Islam being like Christianty and was a religion created post mortem without Muhammad's direct involvement.

In fact, I did find a document directly attributable to Muhammad's oversight/authorship and it reads 180 degrees different from the Koran.
 
sama same Bible and Buddhist dramapada scriptures they were written by scholars, the academic.

In the Bible NT, Paul,or Saul, too with him Mark to jotted down what he says and people say about Jesus. The book of Mark was the 1st Book in the NY.

Then Matthew followed Mark contents. But the scholars messed up put Book of Matthew first in the NT.

Then, Luke the scholar, wrote his book based on both Mark and Matthew.

Then the Book of John was written by an anonymous person named John. Not the actual John in one of the 12 appostels.

The English Bible, King James, was translated from German Vulgate Bible.

Kings Jame get Francis Bacon, a scholar, to translate the Bible. Then Francis Bacon hired Shakespeare to write the Bible with his theatre stage performance fairy tale story like the Macbeth book. Those who learn Literature will know...

As such you get shakespears writing style with thou, Ye, thee words in the Bible book.. Then u hv these - It has come to pass, verily verily I say unto thee.. writing style phrases too.

So does it matters Mohhie knows how to read or write. Only scholars write the story.
 
The Bible was not written until late 110 AD.

The Book of Mark was written in AD70. Then Book of Matthew in AD110.... Book of Luke and John in AD130....

So can say these 3 books was written first but not the accurate account of Jesus troubled time with the Romans.

That was becos the Apostles do not want to tell Paul about Jesus troubled time with the Romans. So Paul took Mark to go to Minor Asia with him. They spent 3 years in Minor Asia to ask people what they knew about Jesus. As such is hearsays only, not an accurate account from the apostles mouth.

Read Galatians 1: 17 to 19.

Muslim started from AD425, and was 300 years later after Christ. By now there shd be abundant of written books on Jesus.

Besides, the Arabs met Jesus brother James descendants in the minor asia desert region in AD425 period,, so the Quran maybe have a more accurate account of Jesus. To the James descendants, Jesus was the teacher, not God or Son of God, and the Quran says Jesus was the teacher...

Hope this helps
Psst.... If you like my bullshit click the like button...


Hi. Just want to suggest an alternative to the above viewpoints. There seems to be good evidence of Muhammad's existence. How much of what he could read and write I have no idea though. My investigations point to Muhammad dying before the creation of Islam and the Koran. Much like how Jesus died before a bible was ever published.

So I would suggest that evidence points to Islam being like Christianty and was a religion created post mortem without Muhammad's direct involvement.

In fact, I did find a document directly attributable to Muhammad's oversight/authorship and it reads 180 degrees different from the Koran.
 
I am not sure if he could read or but he could sure fuck since he got four wives.
 
I can't understand why Duluxe is so anti-Quran and anti-Muhammad. Hello Duluxe! Should I take your antiism seriously. We all know this is a forum just to let off steam and some random ranting.


Do you assume that the vast numbers of followers of the prophet were somehow delusional and so misguided as to accept a fraud as a prophet. How likely? It was the same with Confucius. He had 72 disciple and it was not without reason the 72 showed the greatest respect to Confucius.

Can Duluxe give a reason why the early Muslims showed the greatest respect for Muhammad or how they could have made great misjudgments.

Best regards,
Chan Rasjid.
Thank for presenting your arguments and views in a very peaceful manner.

I am merely doing factual reporting on evils things committed by moslems around the world. If you consider that as anti-islam, then those bad moslems who do evil things against fellow muslims, their welcoming host countries and non-believers are supposed to be pro--islam? Or pro-Koran? You did say every race has bad people, I agree. But my context is faith related wrong-doings. By faith related itself , islam has the highest rate. Islam is boasted by its believers as a peaceful religion, it should be the lowest. Can you answer WHY?

Muhammed was a long distance businessman and a very successful one. Those days they don't have GPS to help them navigate, if he can't read how can he be a successful traveling businessman?

Early muslims showed the greatest respect for Muhummed because they have no chance to know of other greatest saints around Muhammed period who don't womanize or have sex with underage girl or kill in the name of religion propagation or loot caravans? Did confucius did all these. Confucius advocated doing good to others including your enemies and those who wronged you.
 
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Early muslims showed the greatest respect for Muhummed because they have no chance to know of other greatest saints around Muhammed period who don't womanize or have sex with underage girl or kill in the name of religion propagation or loot caravans? Did confucius did all these. Confucius advocated doing good to others including your enemies and those who wronged you.

Arabs of muhammad's time wouldn't think of slavery, robbery or rape as a sin because they were also doing it. Having a prophet who took part in such activities made it easy for them to accept him and legitimized their aggression against others. The moslems even gave robbers a religious title like 'ghazi', which all ottoman sultans had when they ascended the throne. Imagine your king or emperor walking around proclaiming proudly that he was a 'holy robber', where acts of robbery against non-believers were treated as acts of piety before God.
 
Thank for presenting your arguments and views in a very peaceful manner.

I am merely doing factual reporting on evils things committed by moslems around the world. If you consider that as anti-islam, then those bad moslems who do evil things against fellow muslims, their welcoming host countries and non-believers are supposed to be pro--islam? Or pro-Koran? You did say every race has bad people, I agree. But my context is faith related wrong-doings. By faith related itself , islam has the highest rate. Islam is boasted by its believers as a peaceful religion, it should be the lowest. Can you answer WHY?

Muhammed was a long distance businessman and a very successful one. Those days they don't have GPS to help them navigate, if he can't read how can he be a successful traveling businessman?

Early muslims showed the greatest respect for Muhummed because they have no chance to know of other greatest saints around Muhammed period who don't womanize or have sex with underage girl or kill in the name of religion propagation or loot caravans? Did confucius did all these. Confucius advocated doing good to others including your enemies and those who wronged you.
The crime committed by non moslems especially in the drugs trade in central America and the US vastly outnumber those committed by Muslims. But nobody bothered to say anything,

n 2012, Mexico had a murder rate of 21.5 per 100,000 population.[15] There were a total of 26,037 murders in Mexico in 2012.[15] Between 2000 and 2013, 215,000 people in Mexico were murdered. By 2013 there were only 30,800 people incarcerated for murder, showing that many murders go unsolved.[16] In October 2017, Mexico suffered its deadliest month since it started keeping such data in 1997, with 2,371 murder investigations
Mexico as we know, is a roman Catholic country.
 
The crime committed by non moslems especially in the drugs trade in central America and the US vastly outnumber those committed by Muslims. But nobody bothered to say anything,

n 2012, Mexico had a murder rate of 21.5 per 100,000 population.[15] There were a total of 26,037 murders in Mexico in 2012.[15] Between 2000 and 2013, 215,000 people in Mexico were murdered. By 2013 there were only 30,800 people incarcerated for murder, showing that many murders go unsolved.[16] In October 2017, Mexico suffered its deadliest month since it started keeping such data in 1997, with 2,371 murder investigations
Mexico as we know, is a roman Catholic country.

Are they related to religion?
 
They probably attend church

Like this scene when biggest US drug dealer was arrested.



no no you are too off. drug dealer is not motivated or inspired by the bible. Whereas jihadism, child sex, raping infidels, honor killing are inspired or related to the Quran and Hadiths. Including hatre from young towards jews and christians. No christian parent teaches their young kids to hate or hate muslims.
 
no no you are too off. drug dealer is not motivated or inspired by the bible. Whereas jihadism, child sex, raping infidels, honor killing are inspired or related to the Quran and Hadiths. Including hatre from young towards jews and christians. No christian parent teaches their young kids to hate or hate muslims.
The hate part you should thank saudis. They have been funding a extreme form of islam across the globe.
 
I can't understand why Duluxe is so anti-Quran and anti-Muhammad.

Best regards,
Chan Rasjid.

'Able to read and write' is normally taken as a merit, compliment and plus point!!! Why does equating 'Able to read and write' with Muhammad, you see it as anti-Muhammad?
 
The crime committed by non moslems especially in the drugs trade in central America and the US vastly outnumber those committed by Muslims. But nobody bothered to say anything,

Are drug cartels imitating the behaviour of Jesus and his 12 Apostles?
 
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