• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Mega Churches revisited.........

Hakka Tiow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Home > Free > Story
Sep 16, 2007
Why church inked Buona Vista mega-property deal
60-year rental: $343m

A place of its own: $280m

By Nur Dianah Suhaimi


AN ARTIST'S IMPRESSION of the $660m complex with its distinctive shape which is likely to be achieved using titanium. When the complex is ready in 2011, church services would be held at the 5,000-seat auditorium. -- PHOTO: NEW CREATION CHURCH

View more photos

TO HEAR Deacon Matthew Kang talk, it makes sense for a church to go into property development.
The church in question is the 23-year-old charismatic New Creation Church. Its Sunday services at Suntec City Mall draw long lines of worshippers that snake round the block.

The property in question, announced last week, is a $660-million lifestyle hub in Buona Vista. The church's business arm, Rock Productions, is partnering property giant CapitaLand to develop the site.

In an interview with The Sunday Times, Mr Kang, one of the directors of Rock Productions, explained why the church decided to turn property developer in such a big way - the company's investment in the project comes up to $280 million.

Every month, the church pays Suntec City $477,000 to rent the 1,400-seat auditorium, where it holds its services, and a convention hall to accommodate the spillover of worshippers. Its congregation is 16,000-strong.

Mr Kang, a full-time director of financial services at insurance company Manulife Financial, said the rental would add up to $343 million in 60 years' time.

It thus makes economic sense to invest $280 million in developing its share of the 60-year lease Buona Vista site, which consists of an auditorium, an amphitheatre, an outdoor theatre, two ballrooms and a rooftop function area.

The restaurants, shops, wine bars and dance clubs will be developed by CapitaLand.

When the complex is ready in 2011, services would be held at the 5,000-seat auditorium.

The amount involved is no small sum but Mr Kang, 47, said the church would have no problems ponying up the money.

Even before the foundation has been laid, it already has $100 million in cash to cover 35 per cent of the project cost.

Since the company is projected to make about $60million in profit over the next three years, it is left with $120 million to raise.

Mr Kang, who is married with three children, said: 'Of course it is possible to raise $120 million. We have faith that people will give.'

According to the church's financial statements, it received $39.3 million in tithe and offerings in its 2007 financial year.

Rock Productions, set up in 1998 with a paid-up capital of $8 million, is fully funded by the church.

The company is run by a six-member board chaired by church pastor Joseph Prince, 44, who started preaching from a four-room flat in Holland Road.

The board members, who do not receive any salary or dividends from the company, make all the business decisions.

One of its shrewdest was the 2001 purchase of Marine Cove at East Coast Park for $10 million, $4 million below its valuation price, after the previous owner had to sell off assets to pay creditors.

Mr Kang, who readily quotes from the Bible to illustrate the virtues of investing, said: 'Marine Cove was a great investment. It came with ready, popular tenants such as McDonald's and the place is always crowded. Even the carpark is making money.'

Profit from Marine Cove came up to $425,388 in the last financial year.

Other religious organisations are also actively involved in business. Sultan Mosque, in Bussorah Street, collects rent from 11 shophouses that were donated to the mosque by members of the public. The Kong Meng San Phor Kark See Monastery earns income from its crematorium.

In 2002, the Methodist Church leased out a 173,800 sqft piece of land in Mount Sophia to Centrepoint Properties for a reported sum of $50 million.

In 2003, the Seventh-Day Adventist Church sold a 13-storey condominium in Irrawady Road for an estimated $21 million.

Mr Kang, referring to the parable about the servant who buried Jesus' money instead of investing it, said: 'In today's context, that is like keeping money under your mattress. Putting money in the bank and earning interest is the last resort.'

[email protected]
 

Hakka Tiow

Alfrescian
Loyal
cKZeeE21-09-2007, 11:29 PM
Link here (http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_158364.html)

Wzierbovsky sent me a PM regarding a discussion thread on the above in STForum, asking for my opinion, so I thought I would post this here.

Before I continue I respectfully ask would be trolls to please stay away from this thread. I would ask the moderators for help, but I do not suppose they are around often, and I doubt I will get as the OP the same treatment and protection for my thread as I would in other forums. Nonetheless this is a fair warning to would be trolls: Please stay away.

Now I did not read through the entirety of the thread in STForum, but from the brief glances I can more or less gather where the discussion there is heading.

Whenever Corporate Christianity comes up as a topic the common objections always appear. The Church should not be so money minded. The Church should be more "spiritual" instead of being so corporate. What's the use of building such a lavish church building? The Church is just cheating tithe money and using those donations to indulge themselves with unnecessary luxury. The Church should spend the money helping the poor and needy instead. And so on, along those lines.

Those against Corporate Christianity even go as far as quoting Bible verses to support their views. Most of them are quoted out of context and are indeed eisegesis in progress. I shall say nothing of them unless it comes up later in the discussion.

While I am not fully in agreement with Corporate Christianity, as in this case of New Creation Church and their property deal, there really is, in my opinion, nothing technically wrong with their actions.

It's not as if this is a new phenomenem, vis-a-vis City Harvest Church and their building. In fact Christianity has been building lavish churches since it began. Churches that took hundreds of people hundreds of years to build. Nobody complains about them, those "traditional" churches, so to speak. What difference is there, spending large amounts of money and effort on constructing a traditional church building, and spending large amounts of money and effort on constructing a modern building for the purpose of worship?

I will be clear. The Bible does not speak against spending money for the purpose of worship. In fact I believe it speaks for it (Not going to dig for the verse unless someone asks for it).

"The Church should use the money to help the needy instead."

The fact is, against the backdrop of an eternal Kingdom of God, the needy pales in comparison. Christianity is not a humanistic religion. We are taught and indeed try our best to help others whenever we can within our limits (I don't think anyone can truthfully accuse Christianity in their charity and humanitarian efforts), but the heavier emphasis is put in the Kingdom of God. Choosing between spending the money helping the needy, and spending the money expanding and glorifying the Kingdom of God, I choose the latter. Simply put, eternity outweighs everything.

The reason why some people are so against the Church spending this kind of money is because they do not see the importance of the Kingdom in Christendom. As long as Christianity operates as a separate entity from people's lives, staying quietly in the background and not interfering with much, people are content to let it exist. But the moment it comes out and starts to do something to show that it is serious in its claims, like in this case, that's when people start to have complaints. They object because they don't believe. The objection is not so much with the issue, but with Christianity as a whole. As Christians we cannot hope to convince them without spending large amounts of time, so instead of trying to do that I shall merely explain the mentality behind it, from Christianity's POV.

Does having larger church building glorify God? I believe it does. It shows the dedication of the believers. It is an outward expression of our Faith. It represents the glory of God in visible, material terms.

I do not like mega-churches at all. I have many misgivings regarding them, but them wanting to spend money on church building is not one of them.

I now invite others to give their thoughts and comments.

P.S. I realise I am not as coherent today as I would have liked to be. Please pardon me for that. I should be glad to clarify anything that I have not been clear on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://forums.fuckwarezone.com.sg/archive/index.php/t-1731793.html
 

exSINgaporean

Alfrescian
Loyal
<<<<Mr Kang, referring to the parable about the servant who buried Jesus' money instead of investing it, said: 'In today's context, that is like keeping money under your mattress. Putting money in the bank and earning interest is the last resort.' >>>>

What this verse is refering to is not building such huge expensive churches and partner with the unequal yolk of Capitalland to do dance halls where eventually drugs will be transacted.

What it means is to invest the money in soul winning. Just imagine just buidling a simple functional church for just $100 million including the land, and use whatever surplus to win souls in Singapore and win the whole of the Muslim countries of Malaysia and Indonesia.


Yea. God has placed all these right churches in Singapore for a reason. Learn to give and help the churches in the rural Indonesia first. With the finance of $100 million they can spread the gospel to more than 100 million Muslim souls in Indonesia and in just 1 year at least 1 million new souls will be converted. This could be multiplied by 2 each year.

So in just 10 years the whole Indonesia will be a Christian nation like the Philiphines. Then next 10 years concentrate on Malaysia.

Isn't this a better alternative that God wants instead of buildling expensive churches like the Roman time?
 

Hakka Tiow

Alfrescian
Loyal
25 October 2008. City Harvest Church (CHC). Sermon by Rev. Kong Hee.

I feel that today’s preach is actually a disguised CHC annual general meeting (AGM). Since Rev. Kong Hee speaks about CHC’s organizational structure, CHC past achievements and the three pillars of CHC (or you could say CHC mission and vision - in terms of organization). Although, I have nothing against attending CHC annual general meeting, which I think is an important thing because it promotes transparency, I suppose Rev. Kong Hee should be more frank and tell the audience that today’s preach is not a preach but it is an AGM. Rev. Kong Hee should have known that not all the audience are teenagers/students who are unable to distinguish between AGM and sermon.Anyway, here is the content of today’s “sermon” or should I say AGM Minutes of Meeting:

Three Pillars of City Harvest Church (CHC):

1. Great Commandment

Matthew 22: 36 - 40 (NKJV)

36“Master, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37Jesus said unto him, “`Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.’ 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it: `Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.’ 40On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Rev. Kong Hee (RKH) said that CHC sought to love God wholeheartedly (as indicated by vertical beam of a cross), and to love people fervently (as indicated by the horizontal beam of a cross).

Rev. Kong Hee mentioned that according to a research, some of the reasons people don’t want to go to church are: (a) Anti-homosexual - 91%; (b) Judgmental - 87%; (c) Hypocritical - 85%; (d) Sheltered. Therefore, Rev. Kong Hee encouraged CHC to be more tolerant, and not quick to judge others who are different from us.

RKH expressed his disappointment that many Christians condemn Oprah Winfrey, who seems to promote New Age belief. (Personal note: see below video)



RKH said that we should rejoice because Oprah is a good person, she is helping the needy. We should not condemn her, not quick to judge her even though she is nonbeliever. RKH added that he is like Jesus, who never condemn nonbelievers but don’t like the religious person, The Pharisees - who quick to condemn nonbelievers.

To emphasize his point, RKH cited a book by Thorn S. Rainer that revealed non-christians shared Christians’ values. And:

95% unbelievers are open people.
80% will attend church if invited
Only 21% active church goers do invite nonbelievers

2. Great Commission

Matthew 28: 18 - 19 (NKJV)

18And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, “All power is given unto Me in Heaven and on earth. 19Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,

This passage suggested that CHC impact should reach all nations, not just Singapore. Rev. Kong Hee informed that one-fifth of CHC funds go to overseas mission; CHC sends average of 6 teams a week to do missionary work. He estimated that CHC influence in Asia has reach $3.3 million.

3. Cultural Mandate

Matthew 5: 13 - 16 (NKJV)

13“Ye are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and to be trodden under foot of men. 14“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. 15Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick, and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.

Look at passage 14, “a City that is set on a hill cannot be hid” this is the inspiration for the church’s name: CITY HARVEST CHURCH.

How to impact the society?…According to Kong Hee, CHC can impact the society through excelling in the marketplace (no 3 - 7 of the seven pillars of society).
7 Pillars of Society: (1)Family; (2)Religion; (3) Business; (4) Education; (5) Government; (6) Arts; (7) Media.

Kong Hee further explained that God wants us, humans, to impact society. We should be the shaper of values through pop culture. The list of influential pop culture (in order of impact) was: (1) Advertising; (2) Celebrities; (3) Music; (4) Movies; (5) Television; (6) Fashion; (7) Sports; (8) Arts.Kong Hee informed the church that he wants CHC to be creative. He further emphasized that creativity requires risk-taking. The most creative work that God did, was when God created the world. When God created Adam –> God is taking risk, since HE fully aware that Adam might fall into sin.
God is the one who planted the Tree of Knowledge. Genesis 2: 9 (NKJV): 9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Should God banned Adam to be near the Tree of Knowledge?….So that Adam will never fall into sin?….Of course NOT. To God innocence is not a virtue, but virtue is innocence that is tested. Rev. Kong Hee cited example from parenting. Should parents lock up their children in a room so that they will never mix with bad company?….Of course NOT because the parents would end up in jail for child abuse. Rev. Kong Hee gave another example when Jesus was tempted, God the father let it happened. Maturity is not about banning a person from doing something, it is about when you give a person choices, that person can say NO to bad choice.
 
Top