Maids and condo pools - a different take

[makapaaa]

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR>Maids and condo pools - a different take
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<!-- START OF : div id="storytext"--><!-- more than 4 paragraphs -->I REFER to the comment by Mr Bob Armstrong ('Maids and pools', Aug 6), who was responding to the Saturday Special Report, 'Trouble in condos' (Aug 1).
Mr Armstrong asserts that the basic rights of a fellow human being are neglected to protect the image of a condominium. He protests that such a ban infringes on maids' rights, and stirs up feelings of 'elitism, racism and plain unfairness'.
While I understand why Mr Armstrong feels his humanity has been offended, it is apparent to me that his argument is myopic. First, he argues that being allowed to use a swimming pool, which most would consider a luxury, is a basic right.
He also argues that since 'the maid lives in the condo, it seems only right that she can use all facilities'. However, while a maid may live in a condominium, it is first and foremost her workplace. Although she lives and works in the same place, a line must be drawn on inappropriate behaviour in the workplace.
My last concern is Mr Armstrong's thoughts on elitism. He mentions it as if it were something foreign and frowned on in Singapore. Without a doubt, elitism exists and is prevalent in Singapore today. With all due respect for maids for the hard labour they provide, there is no argument that they are lower-ranked than the family they serve. Denial of elitism does not work in favour of the situation.
I respect my maid, and am extremely grateful for her help in the household. As a result, I share a friendship with her, balanced by mutual respect, understanding and courtesy. Maids deserve to be treated well, but we do not need to offer them the luxuries of life, as long as the condominium remains their workplace.
Chan Qing Huang

 

[longbow]

But the condo is also her home, the place for her to rest after hours. Or perhaps for Mr Chan there aren't fixed work hours (slavery?).

Best solution would be to allow the maids to use the condo facilities after her working hours. After all the condo is also he place of rest.

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR>Maids and condo pools - a different take
</TR><!-- headline one : end --><!-- show image if available --></TBODY></TABLE>




<!-- START OF : div id="storytext"--><!-- more than 4 paragraphs -->I REFER to the comment by Mr Bob Armstrong ('Maids and pools', Aug 6), who was responding to the Saturday Special Report, 'Trouble in condos' (Aug 1).
Mr Armstrong asserts that the basic rights of a fellow human being are neglected to protect the image of a condominium. He protests that such a ban infringes on maids' rights, and stirs up feelings of 'elitism, racism and plain unfairness'.
While I understand why Mr Armstrong feels his humanity has been offended, it is apparent to me that his argument is myopic. First, he argues that being allowed to use a swimming pool, which most would consider a luxury, is a basic right.
He also argues that since 'the maid lives in the condo, it seems only right that she can use all facilities'. However, while a maid may live in a condominium, it is first and foremost her workplace. Although she lives and works in the same place, a line must be drawn on inappropriate behaviour in the workplace.
My last concern is Mr Armstrong's thoughts on elitism. He mentions it as if it were something foreign and frowned on in Singapore. Without a doubt, elitism exists and is prevalent in Singapore today. With all due respect for maids for the hard labour they provide, there is no argument that they are lower-ranked than the family they serve. Denial of elitism does not work in favour of the situation.
I respect my maid, and am extremely grateful for her help in the household. As a result, I share a friendship with her, balanced by mutual respect, understanding and courtesy. Maids deserve to be treated well, but we do not need to offer them the luxuries of life, as long as the condominium remains their workplace.
Chan Qing Huang

 

[makapaaa]

<TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"> </TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>dragonclaws2 <NOBR></NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>8:11 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>papadom1 <NOBR></NOBR>unread</TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (3 of 7) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>19027.3 in reply to 19027.2 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>He should go back to UK and ask the Queen to let he butler and maid sit with her at the same table for dinner and have a swim with her Majesty!</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msgleft width="1%"> </TD><TD class=msgopt width="24%" noWrap> Options</TD><TD class=msgrde width="50%" noWrap align=middle> Reply</TD><TD class=wintiny width="25%" noWrap align=right> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgbfrbot> </TD><TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Areopagus]

So, this guy is the Queen of England????

 

[takcheksian]

That Ang Moh Kau is in Singapore, so naturally he is FT.

FTs here are gods and kings and elites.

It goes without saying that when you are Angmohkau here, you also have same rights and privileges as Queen of England.

So, this guy is the Queen of England????

 

[mercbenz]

Are all hotel staffs allowed to use all the facilities?

I am against giving them too much freedom, give an inch and they'll take a foot. People who don't employ domestic helps have no idea the amount of headache one gets when a maid turns bad.

 

[scoobyhoo]

even if you allow indo maids to use the facilities, this might not prevent them from squatting over your rice cooker and make some fluid from their cnuts to be mixed with your rice. their reason is after the masters ate this kind of rice, they would not treat them badly.

 

[jw5]

Are all hotel staffs allowed to use all the facilities?

I am against giving them too much freedom, give an inch and they'll take a foot. People who don't employ domestic helps have no idea the amount of headache one gets when a maid turns bad.

No. hotel staff should not be allowed to use all the facilities in the hotel.
Similarly, the condominium staff should not be allowed to use all the facilities in the condominium.
I don't think the maid should be forbidden to use the condo facilities by the condo management. But whether she gets to use the facilities or not is between her employer and herself. Just like when a maid accompanies her employer's family on their holiday, what she does is between her employer and herself.

 

[Leongsam]

But the condo is also her home, the place for her to rest after hours. Or perhaps for Mr Chan there aren't fixed work hours (slavery?).

There's a more basic issue here... why the hell do Sinkies need slave labour in the first place. The rest of the developed world can function just as well (probably better) without having someone at their beck and call 24 hours a day.

 

[Yoshitei]

Firstly, I personally find the term 'maid' rather demeaning.

Why can't we call them domestic helpers or housekeepers? And since they're part of the family, why can they eat the same food at the same table?

And why can they, use the facilities of the premise they reside in? After all, they're humans.

We feel marginalized when foreigners get treated better at work, but don't we marginalize those we entrust our aged, young and homes to?

 

[scroobal]

Interesting conundrum.

I was once asked by an Ang Mo just prior to a meeting commencing in a conference room about the same thing. In return I asked him why there are an executive toilet on the floor. His face turned red immediately. There was absolute silence in the room.

After the meeting he came to see me and was very upset that I made him look like a dork. I actually did not intend for that to happen but he and the rest immediately understood the analogy.

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR>Maids and condo pools - a different take
</TR><!-- headline one : end --><!-- show image if available --></TBODY></TABLE>




<!-- START OF : div id="storytext"--><!-- more than 4 paragraphs -->I REFER to the comment by Mr Bob Armstrong ('Maids and pools', Aug 6), who was responding to the Saturday Special Report, 'Trouble in condos' (Aug 1).
Mr Armstrong asserts that the basic rights of a fellow human being are neglected to protect the image of a condominium. He protests that such a ban infringes on maids' rights, and stirs up feelings of 'elitism, racism and plain unfairness'.
While I understand why Mr Armstrong feels his humanity has been offended, it is apparent to me that his argument is myopic. First, he argues that being allowed to use a swimming pool, which most would consider a luxury, is a basic right.
He also argues that since 'the maid lives in the condo, it seems only right that she can use all facilities'. However, while a maid may live in a condominium, it is first and foremost her workplace. Although she lives and works in the same place, a line must be drawn on inappropriate behaviour in the workplace.
My last concern is Mr Armstrong's thoughts on elitism. He mentions it as if it were something foreign and frowned on in Singapore. Without a doubt, elitism exists and is prevalent in Singapore today. With all due respect for maids for the hard labour they provide, there is no argument that they are lower-ranked than the family they serve. Denial of elitism does not work in favour of the situation.
I respect my maid, and am extremely grateful for her help in the household. As a result, I share a friendship with her, balanced by mutual respect, understanding and courtesy. Maids deserve to be treated well, but we do not need to offer them the luxuries of life, as long as the condominium remains their workplace.
Chan Qing Huang

 

[singveld]

swimming in public swimming pool is call luxury???

what is deal with sinkies?

a private jet is luxury
a private yacht is luxury

a public pool is not.

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR>Maids and condo pools - a different take
</TR><!-- headline one : end --><!-- show image if available --></TBODY></TABLE>

<!-- START OF : div id="storytext"--><!-- more than 4 paragraphs -->I REFER to the comment by Mr Bob Armstrong ('Maids and pools', Aug 6), who was responding to the Saturday Special Report, 'Trouble in condos' (Aug 1).
Mr Armstrong asserts that the basic rights of a fellow human being are neglected to protect the image of a condominium. He protests that such a ban infringes on maids' rights, and stirs up feelings of 'elitism, racism and plain unfairness'.
While I understand why Mr Armstrong feels his humanity has been offended, it is apparent to me that his argument is myopic. First, he argues that being allowed to use a swimming pool, which most would consider a luxury, is a basic right.
He also argues that since 'the maid lives in the condo, it seems only right that she can use all facilities'. However, while a maid may live in a condominium, it is first and foremost her workplace. Although she lives and works in the same place, a line must be drawn on inappropriate behaviour in the workplace.
My last concern is Mr Armstrong's thoughts on elitism. He mentions it as if it were something foreign and frowned on in Singapore. Without a doubt, elitism exists and is prevalent in Singapore today. With all due respect for maids for the hard labour they provide, there is no argument that they are lower-ranked than the family they serve. Denial of elitism does not work in favour of the situation.
I respect my maid, and am extremely grateful for her help in the household. As a result, I share a friendship with her, balanced by mutual respect, understanding and courtesy. Maids deserve to be treated well, but we do not need to offer them the luxuries of life, as long as the condominium remains their workplace.
Chan Qing Huang

 

[jw5]

Firstly, I personally find the term 'maid' rather demeaning.

Why can't we call them domestic helpers or housekeepers? And since they're part of the family, why can they eat the same food at the same table?

And why can they, use the facilities of the premise they reside in? After all, they're humans.

We feel marginalized when foreigners get treated better at work, but don't we marginalize those we entrust our aged, young and homes to?

I don't find the word "maid" demeaning at all. It's just a word, like any other word. Whether it is demeaning or not is how it is used or perceived, based on our inherent bias and experience.
if a maid is treated well and fairly, there is nothing wrong with calling her a maid, or for her to be called a maid.
But I do agree with your other points.

 

[jw5]

Interesting conundrum.

I was once asked by an Ang Mo just prior to a meeting commencing in a conference room about the same thing. In return I asked him why there are an executive toilet on the floor. His face turned red immediately. There was absolute silence in the room.

After the meeting he came to see me and was very upset that I made him look like a dork. I actually did not intend for that to happen but he and the rest immediately understood the analogy.

Why are there executive toilets?
Because the dorks do not want their kar chngs to have any contact with the kar chngs of the commoners and peasants.

 

[SIFU]

There's a more basic issue here... why the hell do Sinkies need slave labour in the first place. The rest of the developed world can function just as well (probably better) without having someone at their beck and call 24 hours a day.

CB Sam,

spore the only developed country that employed maids?? u r an idiot.. period.:oIo:

 

[Meltdown]

Why can't we call them domestic helpers or housekeepers? And since they're part of the family, why can they eat the same food at the same table?

In America, the maids/domestic helpers/housekeepers eat the same food at the same table as their employers. I stayed with a wealthy Chinese-American family the first few weeks after I landed in America while I look for my own accommodation. The maid is also Asian, thus, the employer is treating the maid as equal not bec she's Ang Moh.

In America, every human being is treated equally under law and they all have basic human rights like right to free speech, right against discrimination, right to keep & bear arms, right against unreasonable searches & seizures, right to privacy, etc...

The Chinese-American employer can discriminate the maid by serving inferior food and let her sit at a separate table during meals. But, the employer understands that they are taking a very big risk of being sued by the maid for discrimination!!! The maid has no money to sue isn't a problem. There's plenty of lawyers willing to represent any person, who is being discriminated, by contingency fee basis. This means the lawyers will represent the victims and get paid 1/3 of the monetary reward only if they win the case in court. If they lose the case, the lawyers don't get paid. Thus, it will cost nothing for the maid to sue her employer for discrimination. i.e. If the maid got discriminated and sued her employer for US$ 10-M and win the case, the lawyers will get US$3,333,333 while the maid will get US$6,666,666.

In SG, human beings have rights only on paper. But in practice, discrimination is tolerable and widely accepted. If the employers of the maids or condo managements prohibit the maids from using the swimming pools, there's nothing the maids can do about it under SG law. When maids have no money to hire lawyers, then no lawyers in SG will represent them, period!

If Sinkies believe that maids don't deserve to have the right to use condo pools, then Sinkies themselves don't deserve to have the right to free speech, free assembly, free press, free & fair trial, etc. under PAP.

Western style basic human rights apply to all people equally under law, not double standard like Sinkie or Hongkee styles.

It's a fact that Asians face more discrimination in Asia than in America!!!

 

[shelltox]

<TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"> </TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>dragonclaws2 <NOBR></NOBR> </TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>8:11 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>papadom1 <NOBR></NOBR>unread</TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right> (3 of 7) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"> </TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>19027.3 in reply to 19027.2 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>He should go back to UK and ask the Queen to let he butler and maid sit with her at the same table for dinner and have a swim with her Majesty!</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msgleft width="1%"> </TD><TD class=msgopt width="24%" noWrap> Options</TD><TD class=msgrde width="50%" noWrap align=middle> Reply</TD><TD class=wintiny width="25%" noWrap align=right> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgbfrbot> </TD><TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Hotel staffs are not allow to swim in the hotel pools , does it mean that they are denied basic human rites.

 

[scroobal]

I think you have been misinformed badly. A maid or housekeeper is no different to a gardener, the handyman or anyone employed by a family. They are just that - employees. They cannot demand to sit at the family table. The contract specifies provision of meals and appropriate accommodation which are certainly more superior than Singapore or Asia.

I have worked in the US, UK and the majority do not have maids. Those that do have maids are for the day only. The live-in maids are rare or in many asian household, a relative. In the UK its usually an Au Pair.

There will always be exceptions where the maid are treated as a family members. Even in Singapore I have seen families treat their maids as such.

You must be watching the Brady Bunch too much.

The Chinese-American employer can discriminate the maid by serving inferior food and let her sit at a separate table during meals. But, the employer understands that they are taking a very big risk of being sued by the maid for discrimination!!! The maid has no money to sue isn't a problem. There's plenty of lawyers willing to represent any person, who is being discriminated, by contingency fee basis. This means the lawyers will represent the victims and get paid 1/3 of the monetary reward only if they win the case in court. If they lose the case, the lawyers don't get paid. Thus, it will cost nothing for the maid to sue her employer for discrimination. i.e. If the maid got discriminated and sued her employer for US$ 10-M and win the case, the lawyers will get US$3,333,333 while the maid will get US$6,666,666.

[/COLOR]

 

[Zombie]

In America, every human being is treated equally under law and they all have basic human rights

condo pool and basic human rights.... how to "gel" together?

 

[mercbenz]

even if you allow indo maids to use the facilities, this might not prevent them from squatting over your rice cooker and make some fluid from their cnuts to be mixed with your rice. their reason is after the masters ate this kind of rice, they would not treat them badly.

I thot this one they do to make sure the husband don't go out look for other women? But hey, you never know what kind of mischief they can get into.