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LTK and SL score an own goal for opposition

yellow_people

Alfrescian
Loyal
There is a difference between being a moderate political party and an unwitting supporter of the PAP system. It is most unfortunate; the Worker’s Party under the leadership of Low Thia Kiang and Sylvia Lim has fallen into the trap of being an unwitting supporter of the PAP system, which involves tweaking your message so as not to offend, or so as to dilute or conceal the true facts, or even worse, to explicitly agree with the PAP on certain points (the rule of unjust laws being one example) just so as to pass under their radar safely.

By publicly agreeing with the PAP, that the opposition is weak and with insufficient talent, both Low and Lim have admitted the Worker’s Party is not ready to form the government and have explicitly agreed the PAP are at present the best suited to form the government for the foreseeable future.

The Worker’s Party by its leadership’s own admission needs experience managing town councils and improving debating skills in parliament. The Worker’s Party also claim to provide “check and balance” in parliament, even though there is little evidence that has been the case since Low has been an MP for over 20 years and Lim an NCMP since 2006.

Lee Hsien Loong, made his point crystal clear, no doubt emboldened by Low and Lim’s admission last evening, when law student, Edmund Koh Joo Peng posed a question. “Isn’t it unfair to really divide us because we live in Potong Pasir?” Potong Pasir, Mr. Koh said, “has been left out of the upgrading twice.”

Lee replied, “If you ask the people of Potong Pasir who do they want to make the Government of Singapore, I think they would say they want the Government to be PAP, so too in Hougang … In other words, they are depending on somebody else to vote for the PAP so that they can have the luxury of voting for Mr. Chiam or Mr. Low. Now, if everybody in Singapore does that we’re in trouble. So there has to be an incentive to vote for the Government and going first or second, that’s just that little bit of difference.”

Lee was made to look magnanimous when he reiterated national programs, like education, healthcare and defence covers everyone.

The Worker’s Party philosophy is that the best chance of being elected into parliament is to give what they think the people want — something resembling the PAP in terms of political vision, but being able to disagree with the PAP on policy issues and debate accordingly. There is evidence of Worker’s Party doing so just 2 days ago when replying to a question from The Online Citizen on whether the party supported the death penalty, Mr. Singh said the social barometer as far as Singaporeans are concerned is not leaning towards the removal of the death penalty. Worker’s Party’s alternatively to HDB, where median income is used, is another such example, which leaves many unanswered questions.

So what does the WP really believe in and stand for?

How does one know if elected, they will deliver what they say they would, if they base their ideology not on sound principles but on whatever happens to be the political mood of the day?


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Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
sadly n unfortunately isn't that a "hard truth" based on the present status quo amongst both pap n the opposition as it now stands?...do u actually believe any oppo party is in a reasonaly capable position to take the reins of government in the here n now?...even wif a unity collaborative coalition oppo?...

By publicly agreeing with the PAP, that the opposition is weak and with insufficient talent, both Low and Lim have admitted the Worker’s Party is not ready to form the government and have explicitly agreed the PAP are at present the best suited to form the government for the foreseeable future.

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seebaysong

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think WP is trying to consolidate its position rather than going all out aggressive like SDP... It's really a question of strategy and perception on the ground.. Remembering how CSJ was "crucified" when he try to use hardcore tactics by both the fellow politicians and regular man on the street. As such, WP needs to walk the fine line of trying to create a differentiating factor while at the same time maintaining its integrity as the opposition of choice in Spore.
 
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Forvendet

Alfrescian
Loyal
By publicly agreeing with the PAP, that the opposition is weak and with insufficient talent, both Low and Lim have admitted the Worker’s Party is not ready to form the government and have explicitly agreed the PAP are at present the best suited to form the government for the foreseeable future.

Pray tell, which opposition party have numbers enough to form the next government. Hard truth is, all opposition parties combined also cannot. Harder truth is, look at the party jumping and jumpers, so many can't agree with each other.
 

Khun Ying Pojaman

Alfrescian
Loyal
The point is not whether opposition are able to form the government. It's something that we all know, but it's quite another thing to openly admit in the face of your opponent that you're not good enough. It's GE we're talking about, and we're not here to win the Most Honest prize.

If PAP were honest, and if PAP were to go around saying they were not good enough for the salaries they received; that they were not managerial enough to control the spending on YOG; that they were sleeping on their job when MSK fled....mind you, all these are truths, and we all know how true they are....PAP would surely lose more votes for being honest.
 

Forvendet

Alfrescian
Loyal
There's a difference between not good enough and numbers not enough. If you expect any opposition or coalition to suddenly be able to field enough candidates to challenge for government before you're willing to vote opposition, you can wait for generations in your grave or urn and it'll never happen. If you start voting for opposition candidates good enough to be MPs, then it's possible that their numbers can increase till they're enough to form alternative government.
 
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IR123

Alfrescian
Loyal
(1) The many diverse opinions here, in a single forum, is proof that there are many myraid shades to the oppositions' identity. That they cannot agree on fundamental issues, do not have leadership capabilities, is a given and is evident to the impartial. To ask Sylvia Lim and Low Thia Kiang not to admit this, is construed as 'politically astute' by one, 'dishonest' by another and 'evasive' by others.

(2) To keep on harping on Low Thia Kiang when you do not consider the other Chiam See Tong is an exercise in dishonesty and evasiveness.

(3) The question by the Potong Pasir resident implies to the eyes of the general public that this person is a Chiam See Tong supporter. Yet, he may well have been a PAP supporter residing in Potong Pasir. The vote is after all, secret but the motivation in asking that question will be different. The airing of views shows PM LHL to be an open man in the eyes of the public. It would have been much better if PM LHL holds an live televised meeting with LTK, CST and perhaps KJ. CSJ has proven himself uncouth in his actions to GCT and should not be given a chance to show his ill-manners.

Granted that there is a possibility that LTK is a man who sticks his finger in the air to gauge the strength of the wind blowing against him, but that is far better than being a man who sleep his way through Parliament only to wake up during election time.

No matter what is levied against LTK, there is no party capable of engendering public opinion than the WP. Twice I heard acquaintances telling me that perhaps it is time to vote for the WP.

The SDP has some strong qualities but their persistence in thinking that theirs is the only way, is something that is attractive only to themselves.

Besides, why spend time pulling down the WP? Are you not like crabs who are jealous of a successful crab who can now finally climb out of the basket? Besides your hatred of chinks is quite off-putting. It reflects on you as a person. It also reflects on the party SDP which you support. At the end of the day, it only makes me feel that the PAP is right in their treatment of SDP.

I say, give WP a chance. Let them emerge as a party who wins all their GRC and SMC seats. Though I am not confident of LTK and even Sylvia Lim, I am sure there are others in the elected team whose capabilities will shine forth in the next five years.

If SDP feels they are good, then behave like a capable opposition team, focusing on your own strengths instead of tearing others down.
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
There is a difference between being a moderate political party and an unwitting supporter of the PAP system. It is most unfortunate; the Worker’s Party under the leadership of Low Thia Kiang and Sylvia Lim has fallen into the trap of being an unwitting supporter of the PAP system, which involves tweaking your message so as not to offend, or so as to dilute or conceal the true facts, or even worse, to explicitly agree with the PAP on certain points (the rule of unjust laws being one example) just so as to pass under their radar safely.

By publicly agreeing with the PAP, that the opposition is weak and with insufficient talent, both Low and Lim have admitted the Worker’s Party is not ready to form the government and have explicitly agreed the PAP are at present the best suited to form the government for the foreseeable future.

The Worker’s Party by its leadership’s own admission needs experience managing town councils and improving debating skills in parliament. The Worker’s Party also claim to provide “check and balance” in parliament, even though there is little evidence that has been the case since Low has been an MP for over 20 years and Lim an NCMP since 2006.

Lee Hsien Loong, made his point crystal clear, no doubt emboldened by Low and Lim’s admission last evening, when law student, Edmund Koh Joo Peng posed a question. “Isn’t it unfair to really divide us because we live in Potong Pasir?” Potong Pasir, Mr. Koh said, “has been left out of the upgrading twice.”

Lee replied, “If you ask the people of Potong Pasir who do they want to make the Government of Singapore, I think they would say they want the Government to be PAP, so too in Hougang … In other words, they are depending on somebody else to vote for the PAP so that they can have the luxury of voting for Mr. Chiam or Mr. Low. Now, if everybody in Singapore does that we’re in trouble. So there has to be an incentive to vote for the Government and going first or second, that’s just that little bit of difference.”

Lee was made to look magnanimous when he reiterated national programs, like education, healthcare and defence covers everyone.

The Worker’s Party philosophy is that the best chance of being elected into parliament is to give what they think the people want — something resembling the PAP in terms of political vision, but being able to disagree with the PAP on policy issues and debate accordingly. There is evidence of Worker’s Party doing so just 2 days ago when replying to a question from The Online Citizen on whether the party supported the death penalty, Mr. Singh said the social barometer as far as Singaporeans are concerned is not leaning towards the removal of the death penalty. Worker’s Party’s alternatively to HDB, where median income is used, is another such example, which leaves many unanswered questions.

So what does the WP really believe in and stand for?

How does one know if elected, they will deliver what they say they would, if they base their ideology not on sound principles but on whatever happens to be the political mood of the day?


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It is not an own goal. It is just being realistic and offers great credibility.
NOBODY and I mean NOBODY will ever think that any party can form any government. BUT we just have to chisel away and hopefully, the tide will turn a bit higher this time.
 

peterpan777

Alfrescian
Loyal
There's a difference between not good enough and numbers not enough. If you expect any opposition or coalition to suddenly be able to field enough candidates to challenge for government before you're willing to vote opposition, you can wait for generations in your grave or urn and it'll never happen. If you start voting for opposition candidates good enough to be MPs, then it's possible that their numbers can increase till they're enough to form alternative government.

No need to wait till they're enough to form alternative government. PAP will wake up and put in place policy that is favorable to Singaporean in order for them to remain in power. See what GCT did after 1991 election.
 

yellow_people

Alfrescian
Loyal
This is a classic example of "group-think", in this case to "think like the PAP", that has inflicted the WP leadership as I've pointed out to the gullible Ah Beng numerous times. Just because the PAP says so, does not make it so.

If for some reason, however unlikely it may be, should the PAP decides to boycott the elections, like what Barisan Socialist had done, does that mean then that Singapore is doomed? Is Worker's Party then going to claim it lacks sufficient talent, or it is going to take the opportunity to seize the keys to the kingdom as what Lee himself had done?

All it takes is a few good people to manage the government. Singapore is after all an island state with 5 million people. For instance, you certainly do not need 87 MPs with 1 MM, 2 SM, 2 DMP in the PMO office. 87 is not the a number from the high heaven. People really need to wake up and kick their brains into gear.

By admitting as such, we are also sowing the seeds to the claim that Singapore does indeed have a dreath of talented people and as such we need Foreign Talents by the plane load.


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sadly n unfortunately isn't that a "hard truth" based on the present status quo amongst both pap n the opposition as it now stands?...do u actually believe any oppo party is in a reasonaly capable position to take the reins of government in the here n now?...even wif a unity collaborative coalition oppo?...

It is not an own goal. It is just being realistic and offers great credibility.
NOBODY and I mean NOBODY will ever think that any party can form any government. BUT we just have to chisel away and hopefully, the tide will turn a bit higher this time.

Pray tell, which opposition party have numbers enough to form the next government. Hard truth is, all opposition parties combined also cannot. Harder truth is, look at the party jumping and jumpers, so many can't agree with each other.
 
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yellow_people

Alfrescian
Loyal
No need to wait till they're enough to form alternative government. PAP will wake up and put in place policy that is favorable to Singaporean in order for them to remain in power. See what GCT did after 1991 election.

Unfortunately this is the misconception the man-in-the-street holds. "If we vote enough opposition into parliament, PAP will "zhun-zhun" make policies favorable to us". Even if say 20 opposition MPs are voted to parliament, the PAP will devise new and cleverer schemes to stymie political change and at the same time teach Ah Beng a lesson. Autocratic regimes do not waver, they send in their tanks and armies with machine guns and water cannons.

This is why the WP tactic will fail miserably in the end. If you truly want change, throw the PAP out by any means necessary.


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yellow_people

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think WP is trying to consolidate its position rather than going all out aggressive like SDP... It's really a question of strategy and perception on the ground.. Remembering how CSJ was "crucified" when he try to use hardcore tactics by both the fellow politicians and regular man on the street. As such, WP needs to walk the fine line of trying to create a differentiating factor while at the same time maintaining its integrity as the opposition of choice in Spore.

This is akin to a Courtesan kneeling at the Emperor's feet and asking for change.


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yellow_people

Alfrescian
Loyal
The point is not whether opposition are able to form the government. It's something that we all know, but it's quite another thing to openly admit in the face of your opponent that you're not good enough. It's GE we're talking about, and we're not here to win the Most Honest prize.

In political speak, this is known as dog-whistling. By conceding victory to the PAP before the fight has even begun, the WP is harboring hope that in exchange, the PAP will go "easy" on them and let them "win" a few parliamentary seats.

Is this the kind of change Ah Beng is dreaming of?


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Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
flawed logic...my statement is based on my own reading of the grd realities as it now stands...nothing to do wif what pap or u for that matter has to say...

in any event, the fact that u hv to rely on such an absurd hypothetical assumption to try n prove yr flawed n illogical claim speaks volumes...somewhat similar to CSJ n sdp's wild brash claim that it is ready to take the reins of govt here n now...someone pls tell CSJ that u need to learn how to walk before u can run...


This is a classic example of "group-think", in this case to "think like the PAP", that has inflicted the WP leadership as I've pointed out to the gullible Ah Beng numerous times. Just because the PAP says so, does not make it so.

If for some reason, however unlikely it may be, should the PAP decides to boycott the elections, like what Barisan Socialist had done, does that mean then that Singapore is doomed? Is Worker's Party then going to claim it lacks sufficient talent, or it is going to take the opportunity to seize the keys to the kingdom as what Lee himself had done?

All it takes is a few good people to manage the government. Singapore is after all an island state with 5 million people. For instance, you certainly do not need 87 MPs with 1 MM, 2 SM, 2 DMP in the PMO office. 87 is not the a number from the high heaven. People really need to wake up and kick their brains into gear.

By admitting as such, we are also sowing the seeds to the claim that Singapore does indeed have a dreath of talented people and as such we need Foreign Talents by the plane load.


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Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
there is such a thing as political evolution...not just political revolution...
Unfortunately this is the misconception the man-in-the-street holds. "If we vote enough opposition into parliament, PAP will "zhun-zhun" make policies favorable to us". Even if say 20 opposition MPs are voted to parliament, the PAP will devise new and cleverer schemes to stymie political change and at the same time teach Ah Beng a lesson. Autocratic regimes do not waver, they send in their tanks and armies with machine guns and water cannons.

This is why the WP tactic will fail miserably in the end. If you truly want change, throw the PAP out by any means necessary.


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kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
There is no shame or loss of pride in admitting you are not ready to govern.

PAP's LKY no least, had to concede in 1955 that he and his Party were not ready to take the reins, adn were content to wait it out on the Opp bench to gain experience and wait for his opponents to falter and fumble which they did.

I think that is realpolitik. False bravado isn;t going to get one very far.

By publicly agreeing with the PAP, that the opposition is weak and with insufficient talent, both Low and Lim have admitted the Worker’s Party is not ready to form the government and have explicitly agreed the PAP are at present the best suited to form the government for the foreseeable future.
 
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