Lim Swee Say - how many times must I say no to miminum wage

[†††††]

Minimum wage policy won't work: Employers, labour chief
By Kor Kian Beng

SINGAPORE'S labour chief and employers have come out strongly against the idea of a minimum wage and debunked recent claims it would be effective in helping the country's low-wage workers.

National Trades Union Congress (NTUC) secretary-general Lim Swee Say and the Singapore National Employers Federation (SNEF) marshalled arguments to show that a minimum wage is hard to implement effectively and failure to do so would trigger negative effects on workers and bosses alike.

The nasty consequences include raising business costs, driving up joblessness, pushing up costs of living and eroding Singapore's competitive edge, while doing little to lessen income inequality.

Mr Lim, who leads 60 affiliated unions with more than 530,000 members, made it clear in an interview with The Straits Times last week that a minimum wage has no place in Singapore - now or in the near future, because 'it will not work'.

He said there was no way to get it right: If the wage was set too low, it would serve no purpose as low-wage workers would continue to earn little. If set too high, it would trigger higher unemployment as companies would cut demand for labour or their investments.

Based on Singapore's workforce of two million, every one percentage point increase in the unemployment rate would mean 20,000 low-wage workers losing their jobs, cautioned Mr Lim, who is also Minister in the Prime Minister's Office.

He dismissed as well the idea of setting different minimum wages for each sector, depending on the type of work done by low-wage workers, as it would be hard to justify why workers in a certain sector should be paid a higher wage.

In response to media queries, the SNEF said a minimum wage would raise costs and force bosses to respond in ways 'none of which are beneficial'.

These include cutting headcount and trimming workers' benefits and training.

Ultimately, a minimum wage would eat away at the competitiveness of the Singapore workforce, said the SNEF, which has 2,000 members employing more than 600,000 workers in total.

It said: 'Jobs will be lost and fewer new jobs will be created as new businesses find the minimum wage an impediment and choose to start up elsewhere.'

SNEF also cited research findings that showed a causal link between a minimum wage and negative effects on employment in countries like the United States.

The robust response from the labour movement and the employers follows a debate on minimum wage last month.

It began with opinion pieces by National University of Singapore economists Lim Chin and Hui Weng Tat - the former opposing, and the latter supporting the idea.

This was shortly after Hong Kong, an economy often compared to Singapore, legislated a minimum wage in July, paving the way for its implementation by next year.

A minimum wage sets a salary floor employers cannot breach. Its key aims are two-fold: Protect low-wage workers from potential exploitation and help them earn higher wages to cope with rising costs of living.

In the latest debate, the idea of a minimum wage appeared to gain more support because of a widening income gap here. Official figures showed top managers earned four times more than cleaners and labourers at the bottom in 1998. It grew to 5.12 times in 2008.

Lending support this time were Ambassador-at-Large Tommy Koh and Mr K. Kesavapany, director of the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.

Disagreeing, Mr Lim and SNEF believe the better way to help low-wage workers is to raise their skills through what Mr Lim calls a 'minimum skills' approach.

Developed since the mid-1990s, this includes a training infrastructure with 46 centres islandwide, and a nationally recognised skills certification system.

Over time, higher skills and productivity would lead to higher wages, instead of compelling employers to cough up the extra money through a minimum wage law, said Mr Lim.

'We believe the most effective wage ladder for low-wage workers is the skills ladder,' he said.

Responding to Straits Times queries, the International Labour Organisation said a carefully articulated set of wide-ranging policies is needed to secure 'minimum income' for low-wage workers.

It believes this holistic approach is 'at least implicitly reflected' in Singapore's recent policy measures. But this does not mean there is no need for a minimum wage here because it can help prevent abusive wage practices, it added.

 

[metalslug]

http://singaporemind.blogspot.com/2010/10/lim-swee-say-minimum-wage-has-no-place.html

Lim Swee Say : Minimum wage has no place in Singapore....
Having a union chief that believes minimum wage has no place in Singapore says a lot about what kind of system we have in Singapore. Minimum wage policy wherever it is implemented, whether in Europe long time ago or Hong Kong more recently, has always generates plenty of debate. However, you will never find a labor union chief in any other country that will speak out against paying workers a minimum decent living wage. Lim Swee Say speaking against minimum wage just shows us how lopsided and unbalanced the system is ....even more so than the absence of a minimum wage itself. Lim Swee Say, as labor chief, also urge workers to be "cheaper, better, faster" at a time when Singapore has the highest income inequality among developed countries.

Lets get it clear, the debate on minimum wage in Singapore gained momentum because income gap has widened so much in the past decade and an significant underclass consisting of the bottom 20-30% of resident workforce has emerged. If the PAP govt had not pursued policies that caused the income gap to widen such as allowing the influx of cheap imported labor, regressive taxation policies and erosion of labor rights and benefits, the reasons for having minimum wage would be less compelling.

Lim Swee Say recycles old arguments against minimum wage. He says it will erode competitiveness by raising business costs and cause unemployment. Labor is only one component of costs - rent, utilities, govt charges etc. You never hear Lim Swee Say urging landlords to keep rentals low or reducing CEO pay or suggesting that electricity tariffs which is 2nd highest in the world should be reduced to keep Singapore competitive - he believes in making workers "cheaper" to stay competitive as part of his CBF (Cheaper, better faster) strategy. Higher wages will actually provide businesses with incentives to automate and increase productivity which has been falling forthe past few years. Minimum wage only causes unemployment in economies that are highly dependent on cheap labor. We should restructure our economy and move away these industries otherwise we will have workers locked in a 3rd world wage structure coping with a 1st world world cost of living.

If we believe a person working full time in Singapore should be paid decent wages , we have to make it happen with leadership that is determined to put in place the economic pre-conditions that make it possible. All developed countries other than Singapore have done it. Hong Kong has gone ahead and Malaysia is likely to implement it by next year. We, in Singapore, have a "cannot do" leadership that seeks to maintain the status quo because it best preserve its own interests and the interests of the large network of businesses to which it is linked. In such a system, inequalities can only expand....

 

[myfoot123]

Can't blame him. He is employer chief labour but disguised as Singapore worker labour chief. Such double headed snake is dangerous to ordinary workers of Singapore. Cheaper, better and faster. Better, Best and Betterest - all these sound like employers quote and echoed by Lim Swee Say for whose beneifts? You guess.

 

[Kid278]

This up down turner dont know what he's up against. He just wont help workers, he supports exploitations of worker.

With out minimum wage what good will minimum skills do when employers continue to pay low wages.

 

[silliporean]

How our "labor system" works is based on what we call "The Tripartite Agreement". Its not a common system used in the world.

What it means is there must be a mutual agreement between The Workers (UNION or NTUC), The Employers (SNEF) and The Ministry (Min Of Manpower)

You take a look at our labor laws, it does not promote any forms of fines towards errant Employers hence the way they enforce it is through persuasion, persuading the Company to be a responsible Corporate citizen.

There are many Employers whom are playing around in between the guidelines, breaking the laws here and there, they are not worried because they will not be fined. For example, overtime pay, instead of paying 1.5 times basic rate for extra hours work, there are companies that pay 1.2 times only or even at flat rate. They dare to do it because they know they wont be fined.

Hence coming back to minimum wages, how is it going to work? If it states that the employer should pay the worker at least $x per hour, is there a mechanism strong enough to enforce it in the first place? Maybe there is and I dont see it.

The minimum wage problem, is more complex than what we all see it. Lim is right, price it too low, the workers die because corporate giants will it against the workers, price it too high the corporates will start to hurt.

An example : If minimum wages is set at say $3 per hour for a standard 44 hour work week you get $132 and in a month $529. This is the minimum standard of wages being set. Look at the numbers, does it look meaningful to you? Can you survive with $529 per month before CPF deductions?

That being said, during labor mediation, a guy making $2500 per month having labor disputes with the employer goes into settlement and the employer may use the minimum wages against him/her.

Unless we set a minimum wage on all levels of job position, which is pure nonsense as I am very sure that none of us will ever say that we are being overpaid and your employer will always say that they are overpaying you.

In summary its L P P L

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

How our "labor system" works is based on what we call "The Tripartite Agreement". Its not a common system used in the world.

What it means is there must be a mutual agreement between The Workers (UNION or NTUC), The Employers (SNEF) and The Ministry (Min Of Manpower)

....................

Tripartism is a cornerstone of fascism used by fascists to promote corporatism. Tripartism occurs when unions, businesses and government are all controlled by a political party in power.

The PAPs actions and programmes and legislations shows that it is trough and through a fascist politcal party. Singaporeans must be made known of this. Fascism is a dangerous and evil system of governance usually supported by a group of self-serving individuals who call themselves elite and belive that governance must be done through a smal group of people for the bettermnet of the country. In other words, one party rule by a small group without regard for the majority of the people.

 

[annexa]

According to Nobel Prize winners, higher wages decrease unemployment. So here is your international "fuck you".

 

[saratogas]

Minimum wages will only benefit the FTs working here...
Sinkapore model of exploiting them will only work if they continue to do their job at the cheapest price... So that bosses can earn the maximum profit n pay my salary.

 

[yuelao]

These include cutting headcount and trimming workers' benefits and training.

And I suppose they are not trying their hardest to do the same even without minimum wage.

The only reason the employers do not want minimum wage is because it will eat into their profits if there is demand elasticity and they are unable to pass all the costs onto the consumers. If they can only afford to pay third world wages then these businesses should just move their operations to these countries and not continue to enjoy the first world infrastructure in Sinkieland protected by NSmen.

 

[Capano2020]

Let's proposed a minimum wage system for ministers then!

Must draw minimum wage of 1k per hour with a mandatory pay out of 12hrs minimum and on top of that 4k per day for lodging, 3k for transportation & 20k for medical benefits & 200k for family welfare per day basis. And there must be at least 2000 other portfolios in the quasi private sectors where he sits in the board of directors drawing 15k per day per company. Along with that, Republic of Singapore as a employer must ceed 12 monopolies of business sector for the better growth of the company, and yes, such positions & holdings must be legislated as hereditary so that the next generation of blue blood elite can take over & better the performance of the father! Now if that is proposed, Do You Think "LIM SWEE" will "SAY" NO?

 

[congo9]

raise the minimum wage to $7 to 10 per hour for all jobs ! Why only $3 ? If you cannot raise salary , just don raise the cost of living without thinking of the common people.



=========================================================

How our "labor system" works is based on what we call "The Tripartite Agreement". Its not a common system used in the world.

What it means is there must be a mutual agreement between The Workers (UNION or NTUC), The Employers (SNEF) and The Ministry (Min Of Manpower)

You take a look at our labor laws, it does not promote any forms of fines towards errant Employers hence the way they enforce it is through persuasion, persuading the Company to be a responsible Corporate citizen.

There are many Employers whom are playing around in between the guidelines, breaking the laws here and there, they are not worried because they will not be fined. For example, overtime pay, instead of paying 1.5 times basic rate for extra hours work, there are companies that pay 1.2 times only or even at flat rate. They dare to do it because they know they wont be fined.

Hence coming back to minimum wages, how is it going to work? If it states that the employer should pay the worker at least $x per hour, is there a mechanism strong enough to enforce it in the first place? Maybe there is and I dont see it.

The minimum wage problem, is more complex than what we all see it. Lim is right, price it too low, the workers die because corporate giants will it against the workers, price it too high the corporates will start to hurt.

An example : If minimum wages is set at say $3 per hour for a standard 44 hour work week you get $132 and in a month $529. This is the minimum standard of wages being set. Look at the numbers, does it look meaningful to you? Can you survive with $529 per month before CPF deductions?

That being said, during labor mediation, a guy making $2500 per month having labor disputes with the employer goes into settlement and the employer may use the minimum wages against him/her.

Unless we set a minimum wage on all levels of job position, which is pure nonsense as I am very sure that none of us will ever say that we are being overpaid and your employer will always say that they are overpaying you.

In summary its L P P L

 

[streetsmart73]

Can't blame him. He is employer chief labour but disguised as Singapore worker labour chief. Such double headed snake is dangerous to ordinary workers of Singapore. Cheaper, better and faster. Better, Best and Betterest - all these sound like employers quote and echoed by Lim Swee Say for whose beneifts? You guess.

hi there

1. aiyoh! still listen to the crap from zorro!
2. no substance, no material but just continue to blah, blah and more blah.
3. daft sheep, erh! daft zorro!

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Seldom will you find a problem being solved or lessened by employing a single procedure or programme. This is especially so in the case of complex issues such as Minimum Wage.

What is the rationale for Minimum Wage?

Minimum Wage is employed to ensure that workers are paid sufficiently to earn a decent living in their country. In terms of Singapore, our ideals for home ownership coupled with other necessities of living in a first world country within a Singapore context will help us come up with a minimum wage to reach our goal which is to earn a salary to allow for a decent live.

Foreign Workers
By and large low salaried foreign workers are provided with housing and there is no incentive nor intention on our part for them to own properties here. As such, their minimum wage levels should not be on par to that of Singaporeans. However, their wages, working conditions and contractual obligations should be such that they are not exploited and are able to return to their country of origin and be able to afford a lifestyle congruent with or better than those their countrymen.

Hence, a Minimum Wage law properly effected will not drastically increase the wage costs of Singaporean businesses that employ a large number of these migrant foreign workers.

Protection Singaporean Workers
To protect low-salaried Singaporean workers from having to compete with migrant workers, with salaries below the minimum wage, a "hire Singaporean first" policy must also be implemented.

A "hire Singaporean first" policy must be implemented to buttress the ideals for Minimum Wage so as to allow us to achieve its intended goals.

This "hire Singaporean first" policy should be implemented across the board and not just in the industries and job specifications where minimum wage is effected. Such a policy will ensure that Singaporeans are not disaffected by minimum wage laws, ensure that Singaporean workers earning just above the minimum wage do not get sucked into being part of the minimum wage laws and to allow Singaporeans to truly be the best that they can be.

With the world being more competitive today than ever before and with economic slowdowns becoming more frequent it is imperative that all governments initiate policies to ensure that their citizens get first bite of the cherry.

Any government that doesn't believe in its workers but wants to rely on cheap foreign workers and allows guanxi of expat communities to continue unabated should not be allowed to govern!