• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Latest: Thailand On The Brink Of A Bloody Civil War

clinton666

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thailand, known throughout the world as the Land of Smiles and Cheap Prostitutes, is on the brink of a civil war.

What this means is the Thai economy will be devastated and more Thais will become cheap prostitutes.

This is what happend when you take democracy too far and people do not respect the results of the election.

Thousands of red-clad Thaksin loyalists gather in BangkokPosted: 30 November 2008 2132 hrs

BANGKOK: Thousands of supporters of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra gathered in Bangkok on Sunday to show support for the embattled government, raising fears of clashes with rivals besieging the airports.

Bedecked in bright red shirts to differentiate themselves from their yellow-clad foes in the People's Alliance for Democracy, the pro-government supporters waved Thai flags and wore headbands reading simply "Thaksin".

Others had "No Coup" on their red headbands, as the occupation by PAD supporters of Bangkok's two main airports over the past week has raised fears of military intervention to end the paralysing turmoil.

Police estimated that about 4,000 people had gathered at a plaza in the central government district, while organisers have said they hope to bring out 10,000 people on Sunday.

"We gather here today (Sunday) to protect the democratic system, to say we don't want a coup," said pro-government leader Jatuporn Prompan, adding that they would rally until Thursday and march to the nearby Democracy Monument.

Their hero Thaksin was overthrown in a coup in September 2006 after PAD protests and amid allegations of corruption, and the PAD resuscitated their campaign in May this year after his allies won elections last December.

The pro-government group are rallying about five kilometres (three miles) away from some supporters of the PAD, who have occupied the nearby prime minister's cabinet offices since late August.

The PAD, whose supporters wear yellow shirts and headbands in what they say is a symbol of their desire to protect Thailand's revered monarchy, is locked in a stand-off with police at Bangkok's two main airports.

At the pro-government site, the atmosphere was lively but people were clearly angry about the chaos gripping Thailand. Some held up banners saying "PAD are bandits".

"I came because I worry about the country's situation and support the leaders," said 55-year-old vendor Pradit Siriwarin.

"I will fight until the end for the government and for Thaksin – I will fight for him to return home. I don't fear the clash."

PAD leaders have refused to budge until Thaksin's brother-in-law Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat resigns. He has refused to stand down.

Clashes between the pro- and anti-government groups have broken out sporadically across Thailand recently and people fear a large-scale confrontation between the so-called Red Shirts and the Yellow Shirts.

In early November, Thaksin gave a telephone address to a gathering of about 100,000 supporters on the outskirts of Bangkok, in which he said "the power of people" could bring him back from exile.

He fled Thailand in August as corruption charges mounted against him, and was last month sentenced to two years in jail in absentia for helping his wife buy state-owned land when he was premier.

During his two terms, Thaksin was loved by the rural poor for his policies such as village loans and low-cost healthcare, but the traditional wealthy elite were infuriated that he had usurped their power and influence.

Thailand is still bitterly divided – even though some people appear to be switching sides.

"I was with PAD when they gathered to topple Thaksin, but today I come here because I am afraid the country is facing another coup," said Piyarat Harnkittichai, 52, a businessman.


- AFP/so
 

annexa

Alfrescian
Loyal
Remember what LKY told Deng about Tien An Men?

Switch off the taps and electricity, surround them and not allow logistics in or out. Call their parents.
 

Wobble

Alfrescian
Loyal
they have to try to settle it asap...or at least while the current king is still alive...
 

clinton666

Alfrescian
Loyal
The civil war has started.

Blast kills one, wounds 20 at Bangkok airport
Posted: 02 December 2008 0314 hrs

BANGKOK: One person was killed and 20 anti-government protesters wounded by a bomb blast at Bangkok's domestic airport early Tuesday, in the latest incident targeting the demonstrators, local reports said.

The explosion at Don Muang airport came just hours after the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) ended a three-month sit-in at the prime minister's offices in Bangkok following a series of grenade attacks.

The hundreds of protesters abandoning the premier's offices moved to Don Muang and the main Suvarnabhumi international airport.

"There was a bomb attack at Don Muang just after midnight (1700 GMT)," an emergency services spokesman told AFP.

The Nation newspaper later reported on its website that one person was killed and a further 20 wounded in the latest attack, quoting hospital sources.

It was not immediately clear if the fatality was also an anti-government protester.

A grenade attack early Sunday on Government House, where the premier's cabinet offices are located, wounded around 50 people, while two protesters were killed in similar blasts there last month.

The attacks prompted the PAD to launch a "final battle" with the government, which has developed into an economically crippling week-long siege of the two airports.

PAD leaders said on Monday that protesters would leave Government House and reinforce the airport vigils, while the official premises would be handed back to the government on Tuesday morning. - AFP/de
 

annexa

Alfrescian
Loyal
In politics everything is dirty. We will never know if the granades were planted by the PAD themselves to get support and attention. From what I see the PAD are gangsters who whack police vehicles, fire at others who do not share their opinion, and prevent others to protest when they insist on "democracy" in their name.

I strongly suspect the attacks on PAD is done by PAD.
 

theblackhole

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
now who is in control? the king? the army? the police? or the people?

i think there is complete loss of control...it'll end in anarchy and civil war unless the traditional thai hospitality and smiles return for a peaceful reconciliation for everyone....

don't play a fool with the thais....their smiles can turn to knives if need be!!!
 

hemunkeong

Alfrescian
Loyal
Remember what LKY told Deng about Tien An Men?

Switch off the taps and electricity, surround them and not allow logistics in or out. Call their parents.

I sometimes wonder why the thai govt. don't turn off the utilities and blast
the protesters with filthy pungent liquid. Without water to clean up and power
to find their way they will surely give up.
 

suteerak1099

Alfrescian
Loyal
the yellow shirts claim themselves to be fighters for democracy, but their beliefs already proved that they're not. if democracy is what they preach, then they should shut up & accept the polling results during their elections, by-elections and/or snap elections.

as for the red shirts, for them to join in the fun is not going to solve the problem.

the uniformed corps dun want any part of the chaos, promising of non-violent approaches to the issue at hand. apparently their soft approach is not going anyway as well.

i guess everyone's waiting for HM the king to deliver his bday speech, n if he says enough is enough, orders a decree for the nonsense to stop, the red & yellow shirts wouldnt have anymore reason to continue camping.

2 more days to go, let's wait n see wat happens on the eve of HM's bday.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
Politics airport-style

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Seizing an airport and stranding a reported 90,000 travellers in Bangkok with no way to fly out of the city is certainly headline-grabbing. News media tell the story in many ways, from political moves to inconvenienced-man-in-the-street tales, but I see very little that attempts to explain the bigger picture.


PAD supporters occupy the passenger terminal of Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi airport


Part of the reason why it may be hard, at least for formal media organisations, to tell the story is because it involves the royal family and Thailand's strict lese majesté law makes it a crime to mention royalty in unflattering light. Like Singapore's use of defamation suits and more recently contempt of court laws, the lese majesté law has the effect of creating self-censorship.

What is happening in Thailand this year is really a war of succession. This is a classic kind of conflict that arises when a political era has ended or is coming to an end and various powers jostle to seize the upper hand for the next period. The era that is ending is the reign of King Rama IX (Bhumibol Adulyadej), but apparently, you're not even supposed to insinuate that!

For much of his reign, Thailand has been ruled alternately by military dictatorships and short-lived parliamentary governments. Whether one or the other, generals, politicians and senior civil servants have been drawn from the social elite, who have mostly served the interests of their own class. Thailand is relatively business-friendly because this class owns a lot of businesses. Development is centred on Bangkok, because this class is mostly based in the capital, while much of Thailand remains dirt-poor. The wealth gap between those who live in upscale Suan Phlu condominiums and their maids' families back in a rural village is shocking.




A typical villager's house in Surin province, Thailand

Despite these tensions, social peace has been maintained through a triad of reasons:

Firstly, Thai governments, whatever their ilk, have not done absolutely nothing for the provinces; they have done at least the minimum, such as extending the electrical grid, building roads and providing schools, that provides a semblance of progress.

Secondly, Bhumibol is genuinely popular. He spent many years criss-crossing the country listening to country folk and it is largely through his personal influence that Thai governments have not completely neglected the provinces. (But see also the box at right.)

Thirdly, Thai culture is not yet fully modern. It sees social stratification as normal and people accommodate themselves to this fact of life through a complex system of patronage. Higher-ups are respected for the gifts that they occasionally shower on poorer folk, who return the favour with loyalty; at no time do people question why some chaps are rich and powerful enough to dispense patronage and why others must remain receivers of charity.



While respect for the king is definitely genuine, it should also be noted that there has been a huge amount of propaganda over the decades building up the image of the monarchy. In Thailand, one is frequently struck by the excessive, usually obsequious, display of engineered adulation.





Despite the spread of schools, educational standards are still poor and (I believe) a majority of children in the provinces do not finish middle school. What is produced is a large pool of minimally-educated workers who are able to staff the production lines, restaurants and hotels of booming Bangkok and its industrial estates, but who do not expect the social mobility to ever challenge the place of the elite.

Then came the Asian financial crisis of 1997 and Thaksin Shinawatra. The first felled many rich Thais who had over-extended themselves by borrowing abroad (at fixed exchange rates) to fund their domestic investments. The moment the Thai central bank could not maintain the exchange rate and was forced to devalue the baht, whole swathes of rich Thai society were financially crippled. Large projects in Bangkok stood unfinished. Suddenly, the upper class of Thai society did not look so permanent after all.


Thaksin after an election victory


Into this situation burst Thaksin Shawatra, who was already a tycoon before he entered politics. In 2001, he won the general election -– then considered one of the most open, corruption-free elections ever held -- becoming prime minister. His government promptly instituted a series of populist measures, including the 30-baht healthcare scheme that brought state healthcare within reach of many rural families for the first time.

With his popularity so cemented, he proved he could win successive elections. In 2005, his Thai Rak Thai party swept 374 seats in the 500-seat lower house. This model for winning elections -– appealing to the interests of the provincial masses -– would prove highly threatening to the Bangkok elite. For the first time, they had to contemplate a government that did not depend on them, or on the royal court, for favours.

Accusations were hurled at him about corruption, vote-buying, and so on, and possibly some of the charges may well be true, though in the present charged, partisan atmosphere, it is difficult to get an impartial view as to the real facts.


Sondhi Limthongkul

Before long, Sondhi Limthongkul, a media magnate, emerged as the point man for the anti-Thaksin campaign. From the beginning, Sondhi and his People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) were reputed to enjoy support from not only a cross section of the Bangkok elite, but from the court as well.

Propelling his campiagn was a sense that the political equation in Thailand had changed. The docile masses had tasted the power of their voting rights, and would in time become more and more assertive. Through Thaksin's party, they would become the new permanent majority in Thailand's politics, sidelining the old order.



So came the coup of September 2006 and a short period of military rule. Yet, it changed nothing, for when elections under a new constitution were held again in December 2007, the People Power Party (PPP), the successor to the banned Thai Rak Thai, became the largest party in parliament, and with a few allies, formed the post-coup government.

That's when the PAD changed its tune. From asserting that its campaign was against Thaksin's corrupt politics, it finally came out to say that its aim was to rewrite the constitution to make future parliaments 70 percent appointed. The masses were not to be trusted with the vote because, according to Sondhi, they were "ill-educated" and prone to selling their vote.

This is an admission that one leg of the triad that kept the old order in place has been knocked out. The masses have been empowered through their experience of Thaksin-style populism and they are not likely to go back to their meek selves.

But who would be doing the appointing of the 70 percent? Nobody ever details that.

Another leg is cracking too. King Bhumibol is now frail. He will turn 81 next month. The crown prince enjoys nothing like the same reverence that the old king does. When Bhumibol goes, the second leg of the triad goes too.



That this prospect figures strongly in the PAD's calculations was seen when -- I wish I had kept the quote and reference -- Sondhi let slip that the matter was urgent: The problem had to be solved before the royal succession.

Everybody in Thailand knows, but no one is saying it: The royal court is one of the key parties behind the PAD. Why? They need to institutionalise their grip on power before the informal influence wielded by the old king fades into history. At the same time, this faction has wide support among the Bangkok elite because they too see their interests threatened when future governments are beholden to the provincial masses rather than to them.

This is why I say it's a classic war of succession. Who would hold sway over the future of Thailand post-Bhumibol? As the king's health deteriorates, the battle becomes ever more desperate -- to the extent of seizing the airport and cutting off Bangkok from the rest of the world. The PAD and its backers see it as an existential struggle. That being the case, it hardly matters whether Thailand's economy is destroyed in the process, because if they fail, they'd be destroyed.

Singaporeans might ask the question: when will it be our turn?

© Yawning Bread
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
the yellow shirts claim themselves to be fighters for democracy, but their beliefs already proved that they're not. if democracy is what they preach, then they should shut up & accept the polling results during their elections, by-elections and/or snap elections.

as for the red shirts, for them to join in the fun is not going to solve the problem.

the uniformed corps dun want any part of the chaos, promising of non-violent approaches to the issue at hand. apparently their soft approach is not going anyway as well.

i guess everyone's waiting for HM the king to deliver his bday speech, n if he says enough is enough, orders a decree for the nonsense to stop, the red & yellow shirts wouldnt have anymore reason to continue camping.

2 more days to go, let's wait n see wat happens on the eve of HM's bday.

The king is only stopping short of saying, I want the govt changed. He is the one who created this whole situation today when he endorse the coup to overthrow Thaksin.

Do you seriously think he will say enough is enough and the yellow PAD will stop what they did? If he wanted to speak out, he would have spoken out months ago or even the next 1-2 days after the airport was closed. Waiting for his birthday. What a joke.

Thaksin will make a comeback. Because he is not poor. And furthermore he has support. What the Thai courts did is to try every ways and means to assasinate his political ambition and discredit him. But the more babaric PAD becomes, the more bo chup the King is, the more support Thaksin is getting.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
In politics everything is dirty. We will never know if the granades were planted by the PAD themselves to get support and attention. From what I see the PAD are gangsters who whack police vehicles, fire at others who do not share their opinion, and prevent others to protest when they insist on "democracy" in their name.

I strongly suspect the attacks on PAD is done by PAD.

Done by PAD to stir up more emotions within their own camp. Kidnap police officer somemore. What a joke. :o
 
Top