K Shanmugam will cite Indian cases to pass Singapore laws

[Rogue Trader]

S'pore to use Delhi gang-rape case to defend death penalty: FM

Press Trust of India / Singapore December 30, 2012, 18:15

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Singapore today said it would cite the "heartbreaking case" of the 23-year-old Delhi gang- rape victim as an example to reject demands for abolition of death penalty in the city state. In a Facebook post, Singapore's Minister for Law and Foreign Affairs K Shanmugam said people were "sickened" by the horrific gang-rape and her subsequent death here. Describing the attack on the Delhi girl as a "heartbreaking case", Shanmugam said he would often cite cases like these as examples when he discusses with people who want the death penalty in Singapore to be abolished.

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"Many would agree that this is a type of case where, if the injuries inflicted were of a nature sufficient to cause death, then the abusers should face the death penalty," he wrote.
The Delhi girl, who has never been named, died at Mount Elizabeth Hospital here yesterday after doctors battled in vain to stabilise her condition.

She was air-dashed from Delhi's Safdarjung Hospital to Singapore on Thursday for further medical treatment.

Meanwhile, Shanmugam's comments sparked hundreds of responses on his Facebook page. Some supported his stance on the death penalty, such as a netizen who went by the name OC Yeo, who said: "The death penalty must remain - otherwise justice cannot be served."

Others, however, said the punishment remains unjustifiable, the Straits Times reported.

A user called Joshua Chiang said the death penalty is "an arcane law that cannot be intellectually justified on any grounds".

In response, Shanmugam, an Indian-origin minister, said he sees the punishment as "a necessary evil".

"Having the death penalty alone is not going to stop violent crimes - it didn't stop this young lady from being grossly violated," he wrote.

Human rights groups have called for the total abolition of capital punishment in Singapore but the government says death sentences for the most serious cases will remain as a deterrent.

In November, the Singapore parliament had passed legal reforms abolishing mandatory death sentences in some drug trafficking and murder cases.

Before the reforms, judges had no choice but to impose the death penalty on anyone convicted of murder or trafficking in drugs above specific volumes.

 

[kingrant]

His will be the most stupid statement of the year. hanging will not extract the maximum suffering or contrition from these bastards. Dying this way is too quick and painless and not commensurate with the suffering of the victims.

My prescription: Cane them starting with 20 strokes of the rotan, and when healed, cane again the same number for as long as they live. Give maximum publicity to their wounds and put it on public video or leak it to youtube. That will deter these dick-sticking fucking Indians! Let us hear them begging to be hanged or gassed or electric chaired.

Or release them for public lynching. Street justice a la the punishment given by the girl to the man in "The Girl with the Dragon tattoo"

 

[Kohliantye]

I don't understand why The Indian example should be used by Shanmugam to justify the retention of the Death Penalty.

Make them into eunuchs via castration.

Make these people impotent.

Shame them in public via the mass media.

But for God sake, keep them alive for that is the worst punishment for such animals.

I am sure the Learned Shanmugam can think of all these methods rather then depending on the Indian case as an example to cite.

Death penalties should be mandatory for anyone who allow a poor citizen to die of hunger, lack of medical attention or creating a situation so unbearable that one commits suicide just like the self-immolation cases in Tibet and India.

Maybe we should take a leaf from China and have mandatory death penalty for corruption while holding a public office of trust, mismanagement of government and criminal misappropriation of state monies.

These will surely do our Nation a greatest favour.

 

[loneshark]

My prescription: Cane them starting with 20 strokes of the rotan, and when healed, cane again the same number for as long as they live. Give maximum publicity to their wounds and put it on public video or leak it to youtube. That will deter these dick-sticking fucking Indians! Let us hear them begging to be hanged or gassed or electric chaired.

Or release them for public lynching. Street justice a la the punishment given by the girl to the man in "The Girl with the Dragon tattoo"

Will any of these punishment work?
When do people commit these crimes? Is it when the basic animalistic urge is so strong that it overpowers their logical thoughts?
If that is the case, in the heat of the moment, would they stop and think about consequences?
I am just thinking if punishments are effective as deterents in this case.

 

[kingrant]

Why do you think caning has worked for armed robberies, kidnapping, drug trafficking etc?

Rapes such as those are clearly done becos - in the words of Bill Clinton - "I can". Carrying an iron bar onto a bus with intent to use it to threaten or kill to get what they want can hardly be considered as an act done on a spur of the moment. The system also allows them ease in getting away with it due to their lowly respect on a broader cultural, national level for their women. Nobody until now in India took their women seriously and even less after a rape. That is the cancer in India.

Will any of these punishment work?
When do people commit these crimes? Is it when the basic animalistic urge is so strong that it overpowers their logical thoughts?
If that is the case, in the heat of the moment, would they stop and think about consequences?
I am just thinking if punishments are effective as deterents in this case.

 

[laksaboy]

The punishment should fit the crime. Rape in itself, though atrocious, does not constitute murder and should not mandate the death penalty.

The rape victim's death is a result of manslaughter.

Furthermore, it is very hard to prove rape. Countless men have been falsely accused of rape and been thrown into prison, only to be found not guilty after many years. It is no secret that some women lie about rape as 'revenge', to get attention, or to cover up their own infidelities.

 

[jw5]

The punishment should fit the crime. Rape in itself, though atrocious, does not constitute murder and should not mandate the death penalty.

The rape victim's death is a result of manslaughter.

I disagree with this.
Peoples' idea of what constitutes murder is usually with pre-meditation, which usually means that the perpetuators have to go home and think or discuss about it for a few days and then act on it.
You can argue that those monsters did not have the pre-meditation to kill, but they certainly had the pre-meditation to rape, hurt and torture without bothering to consider the consequences. And even if it didn't take a few days of thinking or discussion, it was certainly pre-meditated and should constitute murder.
The same should apply to gang beatings which result in deaths.

 

[loneshark]

. The system also allows them ease in getting away with it due to their lowly respect on a broader cultural, national level for their women. Nobody until now in India took their women seriously and even less after a rape. That is the cancer in India.

Yes, agree with you. The roots of the cancer go very deep. Where can we even start? Culture, education?

 

[loneshark]

You can argue that those monsters did not have the pre-meditation to kill, but they certainly had the pre-meditation to rape, hurt and torture without bothering to consider the consequences. And even if it didn't take a few days of thinking or discussion, it was certainly pre-meditated and should constitute murder.
The same should apply to gang beatings which result in deaths.

I am not familiar with what defines "pre-meditation".
Bros who are familiar, please share what is commonly accepted as pre-meditated, and what is "spur of the moment". Kum sia.

 

[kingrant]

Dont be so blur. Did you read what actually transpired? The rapists inserted the iron rod into her body which damaged most of her internal organs. This is intended to cause grievous hurt that can lead to permanent injury or death. It was not a banana, you dickhead. Not only that, the boyfriend was also critically beaten up. Did the victim beat her boyfren up to lie about rape, get attention or cover her infidelities?

The punishment should fit the crime. Rape in itself, though atrocious, does not constitute murder and should not mandate the death penalty.

The rape victim's death is a result of manslaughter.

Furthermore, it is very hard to prove rape. Countless men have been falsely accused of rape and been thrown into prison, only to be found not guilty after many years. It is no secret that some women lie about rape as 'revenge', to get attention, or to cover up their own infidelities.

 

[Rumpole]

I am not familiar with what defines "pre-meditation".
Bros who are familiar, please share what is commonly accepted as pre-meditated, and what is "spur of the moment". Kum sia.

In People v Harris, Madam Caro Corrigan of the Supreme Court of California wrote:

"A verdict of deliberate and premeditated first degree murder requires more than a showing of intent to kill. Deliberation refers to careful weighing of considerations in forming a course of action; premeditation means thought over in advance. The process of premeditation and deliberation does not require any extended period of time. The true test is not the duration of time as much as it is the extent of the reflection. Thoughts may follow each other with great rapidity and cold, calculated judgment may be arrived at quickly."

Similarly, in Berube v State, the District Court of Appeal of Florida with Justice Douglas Wallace presiding defined pre-meditation as:

“ … more than a mere intent to kill; it is a fully formed conscious purpose to kill. This purpose to kill may be formed a moment before the act but must exist for a sufficient length of time to permit reflection as to the nature of the act to be committed and the probable result of that act."

The concept of "pre-meditation" can be applied to crimes other than murder e.g. rape, assault, etc.

 

[Semaj2357]

If Shan wants to emulate incidents of other countries, look no further than HKG where the ICAC is really independent and the bldg authorities takes on the chief minister for illegal A&A works to his residence. No quarter given, no inch taken :*:

 

[tanakow]

What they like to do is always to use some exceptional instances and then use that to justify their agenda.

His will be the most stupid statement of the year. hanging will not extract the maximum suffering or contrition from these bastards. Dying this way is too quick and painless and not commensurate with the suffering of the victims.

 

[jw5]

I am not familiar with what defines "pre-meditation".
Bros who are familiar, please share what is commonly accepted as pre-meditated, and what is "spur of the moment". Kum sia.

Just hope that the courts worldwide including SG will not continue to interpret it as requiring a few hours or a few days to "think about it".

It should be pre-meditated as long as there was the intention to kill rape, hurt, assault, torture, etc, even if it took seconds.
And if it resulted in someone dying, it should be considered murder.

 

[jw5]

If Shan wants to emulate incidents of other countries, look no further than HKG where the ICAC is really independent and the bldg authorities takes on the chief minister for illegal A&A works to his residence. No quarter given, no inch taken :*:

Still find it amazing that the CPIB reports to the PM.
So who then is allowed to investigate the PM? His wife?

 

[TuaGow]

Ah neh explioting the the tragedy of another an neh for personal gain.

These stinking ah neh are stinking sick.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Still find it amazing that the CPIB reports to the PM.
So who then is allowed to investigate the PM? His wife?

Protocol wise, ISD reports to minister HA. In reality, it reports to PM.

 

[jw5]

Protocol wise, ISD reports to minister HA. In reality, it reports to PM.

But the PM may not even know what papa knows.......................

 

[laksaboy]

Protocol wise, ISD reports to minister HA. In reality, it reports to PM.

And good luck to everyone if the PM is corrupt.

 

[LeMans2011]

Not appropriate to use Indian cases to justify passing local laws... no one in the world behaves like Indians other than Indians themselves.