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Is orh mee suah really the only moron here who thinks that F&B establishments are legally REQUIRED to allow guide dogs?

gutpunch

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It's not an option for F&B establishments to allow guide dogs accompanying visually impaired persons to enter its premises. It's permitted by law.
The employers are responsible for educating the staff for their ignorance. Business owners, including the halal ones, have no excuse for not knowing the facts about guide dogs.
The guide dogs are even permitted by law to travel on all modes of transport.
hello, do u even understand the meaning of the word permitted? it does not equal mandated. so WRONG it IS an option. also fyi restaurants are private establishments, which means they reserve the right to refuse customers - no excuse required.
In law(in this case governing service dogs), the key word is not 'permit' but 'may' and 'shall'. This is to prevent ambiguity but can still cause confusion specially to lay persons.
You can go argue in court and with MUIS.
The law (Environmental Public Health (Food Hygiene) Regulations, Chapter 95, Section 113, Regulation 29(3), (4), (13)) states: "the licensee of a food establishment or private market may permit any Guide Dog accompanying a blind or visually impaired person to be brought into the dining or refreshment area or any toilet of the licensed premises".

It does not say "shall" or "must" and there is no ambiguity here. You can therefore shut the fuck up and stop acting like an expert because you are the only idiot who is more confused than any lay person.

You've only quoted part of the regulations. Read them all in context. The F&B establishment can keep the guide dog out of its premises if the conditions specified in para 3, 4 and 13 of the regulation 29 have not been met.
Your fucking reply shows that you don't understand what a regulation is.
You better stick to the word 'permit'. It means 'allow'. No confusion for lay persons.
If you are still not convinced that you are the bigger idiot, go seek clarification from the people who made the regulations and MUIS.
OMFG yes open your bloody eyes and LEARN HOW TO READ you blooming moron, it is NOT "if the conditions...have not been met" - it is MAY PERMIT (the guide dog) if the conditions ARE MET!! Here, I shall paste AGAIN and also give you a free English comprehension lesson just out of pity for your retarded parents who had no brains for you to inherit:

==================
Extract of the Environmental Public Health (Food Hygiene) Regulations, Chapter 95, Section 113, Regulation 29(3), (4), (13)
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (1), the licensee of a food establishment or private market
may permit any Guide Dog accompanying a blind or visually impaired person to be brought into the dining or refreshment area or any toilet of the licensed premises if the Guide Dog is:
  • Kept under proper control.
  • Restrained from straying or causing annoyance or nuisance to any person or animal, or damage to any property.
  • Held in a leash.
[translation for morons like you: IF the 3 conditions are met, THEN the f&b establishment MAY PERMIT/ CAN ALLOW guide dogs]
(4)
Where the licensee of a food establishment or private market permits guide dogs accompanying blind or visually impaired persons to be brought into his licensed premises under paragraph (3), the notice referred to in paragraph (2) shall specify that guide dogs are permitted within the licensed premises.

[translation for morons like you: IF the f&b establishment PERMITS/ ALLOWS guide dogs, THEN their notice SHALL/ MUST say so.]

(13) In this regulation “Guide Dog” means a Dog that is specially trained to aid a particular blind or visually impaired person.
==================

Get it? Or still confused?? Indeed (and again), "permit" means "allow", so "may permit" means "may allow". And as already mentioned, you are the idiot, not me. So the only bigger idiot would be your mother for giving birth to a piece of shit like you. You can make a fool of yourself by asking the authorities and MUIS instead and show me. I will even make the question easier for you, go ask them "MUST F&B establishments allow guide dogs? Are they REQUIRED to do so?" and come back with their answer.

Haiz......why do you explain away may and shall in plain language? I've already suggested that you read the regulation in context. If a word is in a law or regulation, look it up in a legal dictionary.

may
1. To be permitted; to be at liberty; to have the power. 2. Whenever a statute directs the doing of a thing for the sake of justice or the public good, the word may is the same as shall.
For the umpteenth time, yes you moron, learn how to read and indeed I mean including the context! Again, look at the following:

(4)
Where the licensee of a food establishment or private market permits guide dogs accompanying blind or visually impaired persons to be brought into his licensed premises under paragraph (3), the notice referred to in paragraph (2) shall specify that guide dogs are permitted within the licensed premises.

AS ALREADY MENTIONED EARLIER, this means that IF the f&b establishment PERMITS/ ALLOWS guide dogs, THEN their notice SHALL/ MUST say so. Firstly, this is precisely why there is even a "where" which means "if" or "in the event that". Secondly, otherwise this whole green part would be omitted as unnecessary, while the earlier section (3) would have also used the same "shall" instead of "may". Before pretending to understand any legal dictionary, you need to possess adequate common sense first which you clearly do not.

To prove my point further, if F&B establishments are REQUIRED TO (meaning they MUST) allow guide dogs as you insist, then obviously this would be reflected in the news(paper) IN LAYMAN TERMS FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW. But NOWHERE does it ever say so and in fact, it keeps saying "are allowed". You are the only idiot making this retarded claim which is not evidenced anywhere.

No need to ask me to argue in court or with MUIS cos Straits Times already reported that guide dog users here face rejection about 50 to 70 per cent of the time when patronising a new place - if your retarded claim is true then there would be at least one F&B establishment having to explain themselves in court already. Like I said, YOU go ask the authorities/ MUIS and come back with their answer.

Aright, smart alec, you've ridiculed yourself yet again by quoting paragraph 4!
You did not insert the words from paragraph 2 “if so directed by the Director-General or any authorised officer,” to your interpretation of paragraph 4!
You poor bastard you, remember what you yourself said? CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!

(2) Subject to paragraphs (4) and (6), where any premises are licensed as a food establishment or private market, the licensee
shall, if so directed by the Director-General or any authorised officer, cause to be displayed in a conspicuous place at the licensed premises a sufficient number of suitable notices to the effect that live animals are prohibited within the licensed premises.

(4)
Where the licensee of a food establishment or private market permits guide dogs accompanying blind or visually impaired persons to be brought into his licensed premises under paragraph (3), the notice referred to in paragraph (2) shall specify that guide dogs are permitted within the licensed premises.

Translation for morons like you: IF authority directs F&B establishments to display notice that live animals are prohibited, then they SHALL/ MUST display (meaning if not directed then don't even need to display). This is subject to IF the f&b establishment PERMITS/ ALLOWS guide dogs, THEN in this case this notice (which says that live animals are prohibited) SHALL/ MUST however also say that but guide dogs CAN.

Now I am really curious as to whether you are indeed the only one here who is so retarded as to think that F&B establishments are REQUIRED TO (meaning they MUST) allow guide dogs, so I will actually start a new thread on this about you.
 

gutpunch

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Wow!
You can't be serious.
SFA is a statutory Board.
The regulations are made available to the public.
The guide dog regulation cannot be at odds with the rights of a disabled person to have access to places used by the public.
There's no point arguing til the cows come home.
Keep your opinions to yourself.
Firstly, yes indeed SFA's advisory is available to the public and is (therefore) IN LAYMAN TERMS:

1. Are guide dogs allowed into food retail establishments?
Yes, guide dogs are allowed into food retail establishments. Under Regulation 29(3) of Environmental Public Health (Food Hygiene) Regulations, a food establishment may permit any guide dog...

And secondly, precisely because F&B establishments (just like shops/ pubs/ clubs) are private businesses which therefore reserve the right to refuse service or to turn away customers, SFA's circular even says IN A WEAK COAXING (not strong authoritative) MANNER:

5 As operators of food retail establishments, we seek your understanding and encourage you to show your care towards persons with disabilities by allowing guide dogs in your establishment

There is nothing to argue because you are undeniably wrong.
Are you so desperate to save face that you have to resort to insisting on your ridiculous claim despite knowing that you have absolutely nothing to back it up?
Or do you seriously have genuine difficulty grasping the meaning of the above two quoted sentences, which even a primary school kid would have no problems understanding?
If so, then kindly seek professional help for your mental disability.
 

A Singaporean

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Please lah. Singlish is not English how can u expect Sinkies to understand? Laws must be written in Singlish otherwise no use one.
 

Loofydralb

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Why does the disabled impose on the rest of us their demands? If the society or business owner doesn't want your business, go to another one.
Make big hoohaa. That is another disability too.
Die and the angels can entertain your demands.
 

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Cripples who have guide dogs should patronize eateries which explicitly allow guide dogs because the owner decides to. We don't need another law from a tyrannical, overreaching rubberstamp government to pander to a few special crippled snowflakes and their bunch of virtue signallers who wouldn't stop kissing their ass. :rolleyes:

This is a business decision, similar to a restaurant's decision to put halal or vegan food on the menu. Deal with it. :cool:

P.S: It feels wonderful to be an able-bodied normal person who doesn't need a guide dog. :biggrin:
 

LexLuthor

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The crux of the matter is the interpretation of section 29 of the Act.

Screenshot_3.jpg


From the very beginning, it's a "prohibitory provision" AGAINST (live animals in the licensed premises) with a few exceptions if certain conditions are met. However, some animal sympathizers took the exceptions and interpreted the exceptions as a "mandatory provision" FOR (guide dogs to be allowed in the licensed premises).

The exceptions do NOT invalidate the rules. The exceptions exist because there are rules. If the rules did NOT exist, the exceptions would not have been necessary in the first place.
 
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Semaj2357

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Are there only 6 blind people in Singapore?
hanor, actually there's more than six but their dogs have not registered with stb as licensed tourist guides to moonlight their services, since they bring their owners all over sinkieland to suss out restaurants that accommodate their owners. shitskin tourists are discouraged for using these dogs to prevent unnecessary crotch-sniffing! :rolleyes:
 

LexLuthor

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hanor, actually there's more than six but their dogs have not registered with stb as licensed tourist guides to moonlight their services, since they bring their owners all over sinkieland to suss out restaurants that accommodate their owners. shitskin tourists are discouraged for using these dogs to prevent unnecessary crotch-sniffing! :rolleyes:
Guide dogs got FT version or not ?

If got, then Sinkies are truly fucked ! :rolleyes:
 

gutpunch

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Loyal
Why does the disabled impose on the rest of us their demands? If the society or business owner doesn't want your business, go to another one.
Make big hoohaa. That is another disability too.
Die and the angels can entertain your demands.
i would've been abit more sympathetic if she didn't inadvertently reveal that she basically goes around looking for trouble: "practically every time I visit a new restaurant, which is a few times a week".

The crux of the matter is the interpretation of section 29 of the Act.

View attachment 181196

From the very beginning, it's a "prohibitory provision" against (live animals in the licensed premises) with a few exceptions if certain conditions are met. However, some animal sympathizers took the exceptions and interpreted the exceptions as a "mandatory provision" for (guide dogs to be allowed in the licensed premises).

The exceptions do NOT invalidate the rules. The exceptions exist because there are rules. If the rules did NOT exist, the exceptions would not have been necessary in the first place.
EXACTLY!!! But this would probably be even harder for him to understand, seeing how he was already confused by the "words in paragraph 2" that he himself brought up.
 

gutpunch

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hanor, self-entitled ones are wont to take selfies to enable self-sympathising maka-hai moments for others to empathise or share their misery :redface:
sophie soon took over from cassandra chiu who has no more power so now SS is the new CC
 
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