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Investing in US properties

neddy

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With the strong AUD$ and cheap US properties, this may be a good time to invest in US properties.

But there appears to be a shortage of professional property managers in the US.

More details from AFR to follow ... with calculations
 
With the strong AUD$ and cheap US properties, this may be a good time to invest in US properties.

But there appears to be a shortage of professional property managers in the US.

More details from AFR to follow ... with calculations

yes, please keep us updated. which properties web portal can we follow?
 
yes, please keep us updated. which properties web portal can we follow?

I sm finding out as well.

Meanwhile, if you have a property settlement clerk that looks like the dumb blonde in the middle, expect spelling mistakes, settlement delays and lies to get out of trouble!!! Mr TAN becomes Mr TON. Who own the house again? Mr TON.

pic.php
 
With the strong AUD$ and cheap US properties, this may be a good time to invest in US properties.

But there appears to be a shortage of professional property managers in the US.

More details from AFR to follow ... with calculations

There are plenty of turnkey solutions. These typically nett a yield of 15% but if you are looking for a 20-30% return then you need to purchase, renovate yourself and then engage prop management which will charge 7-10% of rent revenue all inclusive. Outgoings include content insurance, property tax and whatever maintenance or vacancies you will encounter.

For more information visit fatwallet.com-forums-finance-rental properties. There is alot of information there. For a listing of prop management co just research the area you intend to purchase in. There are many online resources such as craigslist, postlets, etc.
 
Trying to start the ball rolling.

Let's start with the cons ... to understand the risk appetite.

Investing in US property is still risky.
In general, we do not want to touch the central USA like Cleveland, Ohio.
Neither is Nevada (down 50%) a good place.
We want to buy in surburbs where the working locals are living in.

The are big differences in buying properties in the US.
- tax : Property tax stays with the property, not the owner. So, if you buy a property, make sure you know how much unpaid tax the last owner left behind.

- rental. Even though the rental laws sides the landlords, the many renters cannot and we do not want a full-time job kicking out tenents. So we need to find good property managers.

- good property managers are hard to find in the US.

Maybe I should take a US tour that includes property hunting. Unfortunately, they also include visiting universities - because of China customers requirements.

... more to come. I am still trying to get the reports.

see also my post
http://www.singsupplies.com/showthread.php?t=78597
 
Trying to start the ball rolling.

Let's start with the cons ... to understand the risk appetite.

Investing in US property is still risky.
In general, we do not want to touch the central USA like Cleveland, Ohio.
Neither is Nevada (down 50%) a good place.
We want to buy in surburbs where the working locals are living in.

The are big differences in buying properties in the US.
- tax : Property tax stays with the property, not the owner. So, if you buy a property, make sure you know how much unpaid tax the last owner left behind.

- rental. Even though the rental laws sides the landlords, the many renters cannot and we do not want a full-time job kicking out tenents. So we need to find good property managers.

- good property managers are hard to find in the US.

Maybe I should take a US tour that includes property hunting. Unfortunately, they also include visiting universities - because of China customers requirements.

... more to come. I am still trying to get the reports.

see also my post
http://www.singsupplies.com/showthread.php?t=78597

We still dont see the bottom of the US housing market. The recent foreclosure "robosigning" scandal will weigh on markets for some time. Additionally the market is entering its slowest time of the year.

When the unemployment rate begins to recover, the short sale situation ends, AND less foreclosures are filed -only then we will see some improvement. There is still plenty of shadow inventory taken off the books so we are years away from any upturn in property prices in the US - except maybe California which currently has 6 months inventory on the MLS vs 11 months for Nevada for example.

Property taxes are prorated. Usually banks who take houses back pay the prop tax bill every year. Short sales taxes are prorated at closing so when title is passed the tax bill is paid. There are cases where the owner does not pay and the county government sells the tax bond to investors who then place a lien which must be satisfied before title is passed.

I think this is what you are looking for.

http://www.meridianpacificproperties.com/?gclid=CPi63_y3-KQCFQm87QodV0Uxhw
 
is there any independent real estate portal similar to realestate.com.au in US?

we got to be careful with all these companies that promote these foreign investment properties. one of my friend bought an "investment" properties in sg when a oz company came over to sg to promote their house sale. He bought it with a couple of his friends combine together for a house $310k at greenbank in brisbane. Now that was in mid 1990s, the house was at least 20km away from the city and most cost just below 120k back then. yes, he was fleeced badly.

same goes to my african friend. based on his finance "advisor", build new house to amortize and recommend him to buy a townhouse that is 42km away from the city at $240k in 2006! now he is stucked with it and the tenants there, mostly bogan aussies, wont pay the rent now.

these are big ticket items and we MUST exercise diligence and cautions. read the canadian thread that is in this forum, how can that forumers buy a house costing hundreds of thousands based on a person's recommendation whom he had met over the net? you would compare the cars among the carshops before buying, right? whats more of an item that is hundreds of Ks? unbelieveable.
 
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any other properties that are near major cities like manhattan NY or san francisco?

if it is so cheap, the gringos would have bought them in the first place.
 
any other properties that are near major cities like manhattan NY or san francisco?

if it is so cheap, the gringos would have bought them in the first place.

The figures are taken from AFR. http://afr.com/p/national/the_land_of_opportunity_KyS21x88nNKKYvkUC1XIrJ

Those properties in <$100k in employed blue-collar workers are in high demand basically these people cannot get bank loans but are able to rent. Have to fine-tune the rental as well because these people are one-step away from bankruptcy.

The number of poor Americans can fill 3 Australias. So, there are a lot of broken-down suburbs. What we do not want are tenants who disappear with windows, doors and water heaters. Also, the suburbs are changing all the time, with the on-going unemployment in US, beautiful suburbs are either turning eerily quiet or renting for close to nothing to wrong tenants.

Also, property management is not well-developed. We cannot expect Aussie standard of property management in the US. I would rather have pay a relative to look after the property, win-win since it creates side income for him in the process.


Still, I am very tempted to take a property hunting tour to America.

Global house prices
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/10/global_house_prices
 
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Wonderful. Noone here is actually buying but we see ALOT of rich PRCs coming in and buying 50K houses and renting them out. And they buy 10 houses at a time.

I wonder what their exit plan is gonna be cause they sure cant sell em anytime soon.
 
The figures are taken from AFR. http://afr.com/p/national/the_land_of_opportunity_KyS21x88nNKKYvkUC1XIrJ

Those properties in <$100k in employed blue-collar workers are in high demand basically these people cannot get bank loans but are able to rent. Have to fine-tune the rental as well because these people are one-step away from bankruptcy.

The number of poor Americans can fill 3 Australias. So, there are a lot of broken-down suburbs. What we do not want are tenants who disappear with windows, doors and water heaters. Also, the suburbs are changing all the time, with the on-going unemployment in US, beautiful suburbs are either turning eerily quiet or renting for close to nothing to wrong tenants.

Also, property management is not well-developed. We cannot expect Aussie standard of property management in the US. I would rather have pay a relative to look after the property, win-win since it creates side income for him in the process.


Still, I am very tempted to take a property hunting tour to America.

Global house prices
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/10/global_house_prices

thanks for the info. it is good to do our homework and be cautious. even if we want to give 10cent to a street beggar, we need to see what kind of beggar he is. although the properties are cheap there, there is little or no incentive for the economy there to pick up. manufacturing, engineering etc are all in the decline and unless the properties are near to industries like film, technology or finance, how much will the returns be like?

having said that, both mining industries in WA and QLD are booming in the ulu area and as what the saying goes; when there is a gold rush, the folks that made the most are the shops and motels. we should think of ways to exploit this advantage. a bird in hand is always worth two in the bush.

what is your thought on this?
 
forget texas. the only tenant who would be in desperate need to rent your place is either an illegal immigrant or a drug cartel gangbanger from across the border. when the housing market cycle peaks again in 8 to 10 years, value appreciation is a mere 10 to 15%.

if you have usd50k as a down payment, it would be better to plunk it down on a house under foreclosure in the sf bay area. a typical foreclosed 4 bedroom single family home in pittsburg, antioch or brentwood in the east bay sells for usd280k on average. pre-bust, it would have sold for usd650k. in 8 to 10 years, the same property would sell for about usd550k.
 
if you have usd50k as a down payment, it would be better to plunk it down on a house under foreclosure in the sf bay area. a typical foreclosed 4 bedroom single family home in pittsburg, antioch or brentwood in the east bay sells for usd280k on average. pre-bust, it would have sold for usd650k. in 8 to 10 years, the same property would sell for about usd550k.

There are a few thoughts on this.

"I am reminded again that buying US property at this time is more a lifestyle choice. There is no investment returns. We are looking at a repeat of the Japanese experience."

"Stay away from the Bible belt. They are living on a prayer. So, stick to the coastal states."

"We been though this before. in the early 1980s. If a $280k property were to sell for $550k in a decade, it is probably die to hyperinflation (similar to the double digit inflation during that period) pushing up prices."
 
having said that, both mining industries in WA and QLD are booming in the ulu area and as what the saying goes; when there is a gold rush, the folks that made the most are the shops and motels. we should think of ways to exploit this advantage. a bird in hand is always worth two in the bush.

what is your thought on this?

We are hearing more stories of broken marriages and illicit drug uses from the miners. We are working with the government educating and distributing drug information to the miners. We are also making sure they have some idea of financial management.

A lot of bees are heading for WA honey pot.
The bothels, drug bikie gangs, politicians and the usual con men.
We have a record number of murders last year!!!

We are too late. hahaha.

Just see Darwin property price!


I was in the ghost town of Gwalia last year to see the re-opened open-pit gold mine. US President Hoover used to work here before.
http://www.stbarbara.com.au/our-operations/leonora/

A bit of history
In its heydays, there used to be a tram line running here, the mining town bustling with shops, etc. Now, with FIFO workers, many from the eastern states, there is not much left.
http://www.gwalia.org.au/gwalia.html

There are great expectation that Americans hot money from QE2 will find its why here - but will history repeat itself? Remember the TomYum crisis of 1997?

The Dinkum in "Fair Dinkum" comes from a Cantonese word. hahaha
 
There are a few thoughts on this.

"I am reminded again that buying US property at this time is more a lifestyle choice. There is no investment returns. We are looking at a repeat of the Japanese experience."

"Stay away from the Bible belt. They are living on a prayer. So, stick to the coastal states."

"We been though this before. in the early 1980s. If a $280k property were to sell for $550k in a decade, it is probably die to hyperinflation (similar to the double digit inflation during that period) pushing up prices."

the bay area is different from busted areas, especially on the peninsula. homes are still expensive and prices unreachable for average folks, even after the downturn. if there is any hyperinflation, this area will super inflate. there are very few foreclosures and inventory is low on the peninsula. this is because stock option millionaires are produced every week due to the success of many tech companies from sf down to sj. we practically don't see any recession here. this is in a bad economy. imagine in a good economy. the only risk on the peninsula is a 7.0 earthquake. it will take 5 years to overcome the correction after a major earthquake, but 10 years have been very predictable for the next hyperinflation bubble. and in every cycle, prices go up more than the last peak.
 
the bay area is different from busted areas, especially on the peninsula. homes are still expensive and prices unreachable for average folks, even after the downturn. if there is any hyperinflation, this area will super inflate. there are very few foreclosures and inventory is low on the peninsula. this is because stock option millionaires are produced every week due to the success of many tech companies from sf down to sj. we practically don't see any recession here. this is in a bad economy. imagine in a good economy. the only risk on the peninsula is a 7.0 earthquake. it will take 5 years to overcome the correction after a major earthquake, but 10 years have been very predictable for the next hyperinflation bubble. and in every cycle, prices go up more than the last peak.

Thanks for the info. Sometimes we forget that America is a big country of 400mil people and 50 states.
 
the bay area is different from busted areas, especially on the peninsula. homes are still expensive and prices unreachable for average folks, even after the downturn. if there is any hyperinflation, this area will super inflate. there are very few foreclosures and inventory is low on the peninsula. this is because stock option millionaires are produced every week due to the success of many tech companies from sf down to sj. we practically don't see any recession here. this is in a bad economy. imagine in a good economy. the only risk on the peninsula is a 7.0 earthquake. it will take 5 years to overcome the correction after a major earthquake, but 10 years have been very predictable for the next hyperinflation bubble. and in every cycle, prices go up more than the last peak.

Well said.. this is why I have recommended the prestige eastern suburbs in Melbourne to our fellow sinkie mates.. but sadly no takers.. most would prefer new developments that are >25km away.. it is NEW but the travelling can kill their sex drive when they get home..

"if there is any hyperinflation, this area will super inflate.." I totally agree. My mates dont believe me.. only time will tell ;)
 
Your US property primer
By Nicole Navarro
November 3, 2010
Australian Property Investor


PORTFOLIO POINT: Yields can be strong, and cheap properties can be poised for capital growth, but buying in the US can hold traps for the unwary.


Depressed US property prices and a pumped-up Australian dollar are making many investors consider doing something they never have before: buying an overseas property.

But for every person brave enough to buy a property in the US, there are plenty more just that little bit hesitant to get involved in the very same market that kicked off one of the biggest financial crises in history.


Is now the right time to buy US property?

But as the dollar continues to hover around parity, we can only assume that the prospect of buying into one of the biggest property markets in the world is only going to grow as more and more investors return with tales of positive cash flow properties and capital growth plays.

Depending on who you listen to, the US property market is about to fall off a cliff thanks to the foreclosure scandal, or has reached rock bottom and is building a base for recovery.

It certainly doesn’t seem possible that the US Federal Reserve could cut the official interest rate further from its already close-to-zero rate. On top of that, job growth is weakening and property owners know just how dependent property prices are on the jobs market.

So what do you listen to and what do you ignore? Do you monitor the housing market indicators closely or do you just rely on your own research and due diligence in the market? And what does this doom and gloom mean for Australian investors who are considering entering this market?

“If the economy was good in the US then we wouldn’t be buying there,” says Eddie Borg, a property investor in Australia and the US.


The pursuit of yield

Those entering the market now are generally fearless investors picking up properties for $30,000 or less, shutting out thoughts of what may be below the surface and instead focusing on the pursuit of yields (which can be as high as 30%) and a potential recovery in prices.

“The opportunity is right now,” says Australian-based buyer advocate Andrew Allan, the chief executive of My USA Property. He adds, however, that “some are saying there’s a 12-month to two-year window for buying at these prices. Obviously if the Australian dollar drops down to US70¢ then the deal won’t be as attractive.”

With the Australian dollar almost back at parity with the greenback, the attraction of US property deteriorates with every cent we slide back. And with many economists divided over where exchange rates will be in 10 months, let alone 10 years, investors will have to consider the arguments and take a position.

Allan believes jobs growth in the US will eventually improve, at which point the housing market may begin to recover. But he admits that pinpointing when the recovery will come is anyone’s guess.

What he does reveal, though, is that while US property prices in some places are still dropping “the reality is the rental figures haven’t really dropped. The rental income many houses were getting pre-GFC is no different to now.”

Due to many home owners losing their houses in foreclosures, the rental demand is strong. This pursuit of yield is what is driving the decisions of many Australian investors.

“When the tide turns and people start buying in the US again, it means you’ll then be receiving even higher yields, with the capital gains as a bonus. I’m acquiring properties I can pay off within 10 years … but you need to have a five to 10-year holding strategy.”


Hidden traps

Two of the major risks faced by Australian investors who adopt the DIY approach are buying a property with a “lien” (an encumbrance or debt) against the title; and failing to find a good property manager and tenant.

“It’s common that some investors might see a $US10 property and think, ‘Wow, I’m getting a bargain’, but it’s later that they find out they’ve also inherited a tax lien of $US40,000 or more on the property,” Allan says.

He explains that unlike in Australia, where banks won’t transfer titles if there’s an encumbrance on that title, in the US the transfer will go ahead, particularly when investors are paying cash.

“People can buy property cheap then notice there’s a lien against the property to pay back,” says Property Women director Rachel Barnes, who recently experienced this first-hand on one of her properties in Columbus, Ohio. “It could mean just the rates due prior to settlement and it goes against the title.”

Allan adds there are independent title search companies in the US (like a conveyancer) that can tell you what lien might exist on a property. But he adds that it’s a good idea to additionally pay a small price for an insurance policy that covers you if a lien isn’t picked up in the initial search due to related paperwork still being processed by the government.

The risk of not finding a decent property manager and winding up with disastrous or even no tenants is “the biggest frustration”, he says.

Allan says that communication is the single most critical and challenging issue faced when dealing with property managers in the US. “Our expectations (of property managers) are high here … but over there, property investors generally buy near where they live and manage their own properties, so we have to educate the property managers there.”

Commonly experienced property management problems relate to the provision of statements, an absence of regular inspections and difficulty in finding quality tenants.

Property managers in the US generally charge commissions of 8–10%, he says. “While it sounds high, rents are generally lower in the US than in Australia, so you need to put it into perspective. On average, rents can be about $US500 a month.”


How to find the hotspots

Imagine asking an investor, ‘What are the hotspots for investment in Australia?’ and multiplying that by a 100 or more. That’s what it’s like when you ask about hotspots in America. The answer is endless because while the geographic size of the US is roughly the same as Australia, there are a hundreds more cities to navigate.

Also, unlike Australia, many parts of the US are oversupplied with housing. Allan says that because the oversupply of housing varies from area to area, the vacancy rate indicators don’t offer an accurate gauge of what’s happening.

Before entering the US market, investors need to understand one more important issue. Unlike in Australia where the closer to the CBD the better, the US is decentralised, meaning the infrastructure and amenities are often better further out into the suburbs. The same applies to employment.

He adds that US cities are often pocketed with ghettos.

So before flying into Los Angeles and scanning the destination list wondering where to head next, Allan suggests looking at areas where the migration rate is healthy and where future job growth is on the cards.

In an economic climate where jobs and house prices have plummeted across the country, there are some areas that have held up a little better than others.

Allan places areas into three categories:

1. Pure cash flow (about $US20,000–35,000). Cleveland, Ohio and Toledo, Ohio. Allan says these areas were hit significantly as these cities generally rely on heavy industry. “In certain areas there’s higher unemployment than in other areas but the infrastructure and amenities in suburbs outside both cities are good.”

2. Medium cash flow but greater potential for capital growth (about $US40,000–65,000). Kansas City, Kansas; St Louis, Missouri; Atlanta, Georgia; and Memphis, Tennessee. “These cities generally still have good fundamentals,” Allan says.

3. Higher capital growth potential and decent cash flow (about $US75,000 plus). Charlotte, North Carolina; San Antonio, Texas; Dallas, Texas. Allan says many of the Fortune 500 companies are based in these cities, along with three military bases in San Antonio.

He adds that in places like San Antonio, as the military force returns from Afghanistan over the next three years (or more), the areas close to the bases are worth watching as there’ll be a boost of income to the areas and demand for housing and amenities.

Other areas he considers to have potential are the Florida tourist hotspots of Orlando and Miami.

“However it still does come down to a street-by-street situation,” he says. “That’s why you need someone you can trust on the ground to tell you how it really is.”

As an example, you could be standing at the Chinese Kodak Theatre in Los Angeles where the rich parade with their Gucci handbags and Jimmy Choo stilettos, then walk 400 metres in one direction where you end up in a virtual ghetto.


Taking the plunge

Apart from seeing the market first-hand and getting a feel for the areas you might consider investing in, knowledge of the US tax system is the crucial first step, according to Michael Jones, a director of business advisors McHenry Partners.

“Many Australian investors have considered taking advantage of the post-GFC US housing market, but have felt the economic and legal differences between Australia and America confronting,” he says.

He says there are a number of safeguards to ensure that a venture into the US property market comes with both security and profitability. “Essentially there’s no restriction on property ownership in the US; you can acquire as a foreigner or what is referred to as an ‘alien’, but depending on the way you shape that investment, and how you deal with the variables involved, you could see a very different return.”

The variables Jones refers to include:

  • Registration with Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
  • Adherence to US federal tax conditions.
  • Differing tax conditions between the 50 US states.
  • Mitigation against potential liens.
  • Asset protection.
  • Insurance.
  • The Australian
tax environment.

Depending on the individual’s circumstances, the proper navigation of these variables can be sorted out from Australia first for maximum tax flexibility, Jones says.

While various structures can be used for acquiring US property, the most common is a Limited Liability Company (LLC), he says – a US-based state entity that has similar characteristics to an Australian company.

Jones says that once the appropriate acquisition structure is identified, the accountant will facilitate the appropriate registrations at federal level with the IRS and then with the state in which the property is situated.

“If appropriate registrations aren’t carried out, the investors can incur taxes of 30% on gross rent received. That’s 30% of gross, not net rent received, on their properties.”

Due to America’s highly litigious environment, Jones encourages investors to safeguard their investment by obtaining public liability insurance and landlord insurance, and having their titles and contracts reviewed for the presence of liens, which could pass debts and taxes incurred by the previous title holders on to them.

“There are a number of differences between the American and Australian tax systems and it’s good to have some guidance when dealing with them,” he says.

“Lodging annual federal and state tax returns, adjusting the US tax year to correspond with Australia’s tax year, and utilising the US/Australia Tax Treaty are all important steps an investor should consider,” he says.

Investor Eddie Borg says that where his tax deductions are concerned, the following applies:
A property can only
  • be depreciated for the first 40 years of its life.
  • The interest paid on US finance and the Australian loan against the equity on the Australian property is tax-deductible.
  • If the Australian portfolio is negatively geared, a cash flow positive property portfolio in the US will reduce the claimable amount on the negatively geared properties.
  • Regular expenses like maintenance, rates, insurance and property management fees are tax-deductible each financial year.
  • Purchase costs are tax-deductible against the capital gains tax when selling the property.
  • Renovation (or “rehab” in American speak) expenses such as a new kitchen are depreciated.
  • One trip to the US each year is tax-deductible, along with associated costs, such as car rental and hotel accommodation for that specific time period of looking at your property. Borg says you must have signed a contract prior to leaving Australia or already
own properties there.


Financing the property

Borg says there are three main options he considered for financing US properties:
Through a self-managed
  • superannuation fund.
  • Using equity from existing Australian properties.
  • Borrowing from a US lender – a bank
or private lender.

Borg personally financed his first three properties in Florida using the first option, his self-managed super fund. “I just set up a self-managed super account though my own accountant and rolled over the balance into a cash management account,” he says.

He then set up an LLC to protect his assets, through an Australian-based accounting firm specialising in the US taxation system. Following this, he set up his US bank account remotely and flew over to inspect the properties emailed to him from an Australian-based buyers advocate service.

On selecting the properties, Borg would then transfer the relevant amount of money through a money exchange business to his US account where the cash would be made available.

He explains that the benefit of this is that he’s only taxed 15¢ in the US dollar on his net income, compared to 30¢ if he just bought it through a company, or up to 46.5¢ for individuals.

On his fourth investment, in Ohio, Borg used the equity from his one-bedroom apartment in St Kilda, a property he bought two years ago for $260,000 and now is valued at $410,000.

While you can borrow against the equity in your Australian property to buy a US property, you can’t easily borrow against the equity in your US property to buy an additional US property. “It is possible, but don’t expect to get low interest rates.”

However, because Australians (or “aliens”) are non-residents, lenders do consider them a higher risk so they’ll charge them higher interest rates and the minimum loan size is about $50,000.

Lenders won’t just lend on any property, he says – another good tip for the investor when deciding on a property type and location. The least risky property type is a single family home valued at $150,000 or more, but in some areas lenders are more cautious, such as Detroit in Michigan and Phoenix in Arizona.
 
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