Human Rights - Minimum Wage & Modern Slavery

[Goh Meng Seng]

I spoke about minimum wage on 13 Dec 2008 at Hong Lim Park, in conjunction with U60 group which is there to speak about Labour Rights.

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<span style="font-weight:bold;">Against Exploitation and modern Slavery</span>

This topic about Labour Rights and minimum wage is not a very "HOT Topic" politically and any politicians can figure out that in a society which is dominated by a huge middle class citizens, there is really little "political points" to be gained, but potentially lots to lose in talking about it. But I believe in speaking up of what I believe as a social-political activist.

However, I feel that for a self-proclaimed 1st world country, we will have to re-examine ourselves in the policies that we set for our country. Singapore is a Republic, not some ancient feudal state where <span style="font-weight:bold;">SLAVERY</span> is the norm. As a modern society, we need to uphold a certain basic values of human decency.
<span style="font-weight:bold;">
The failure of Free Market Principles</span>

The basis of our society should be built upon certain principles against EXPLOITATION and even modern slavery. All economist of free market believes that in a FREE MARKET, pricing would be determined efficiently by the market itself. Thus, they believe that minimum wage should be avoided. They also believe in fiscal distortions imposed by taxes and levies are also bad.

But the basic principles of a Free market is based on some fundamental assumptions that there are free and efficient flow of market information, labour mobility and such. It basically implies that both the employers and employees have equal standing, negotiation power and freedom of choices. This would apply to most of the middle class workers who have the power of modern information technology and mobility not only within the country's industries, but also global markets.

But for those of "Vulnerable group", such as manual labourers, cleaners and low wage earners, they lack such equal standing against employers. They lack bargaining power basically because they lack labour mobility, in both depth and scope. Thus, Free market principles could not be applied to such group of workers and the industries that they are in.

Most of the time, these people are being exploited, almost as modern slaves. Be it local or foreign workers, they are always the ones being exploited by employers.

<span style="font-weight:bold;">The absurd wage comparisons</span>

The most common reason I gather on why local fellow citizen cleaners are paid so lowly is that their employers will claim that they could employ foreign workers at "lower wages". For example, they would cite foreign maids' wage as an example, they were only paid $400 or less, thus paying cleaners $400 is "comparable".

However they did not mention that the total cost of employing a foreign maid includes Government levy ($190), lodging and meals. It could easily add up to $700 or $800 per month. Thus, taking the $400 maid's salary as a gauge to a cleaner's take home pay is totally unfair, because the cleaners have to pay for his or her own food, transport and lodging!

<span style="font-weight:bold;">Maids/Workers' levies - Government Exploitation</span>

At this juncture, I would like to talk about government levies imposed on foreign maids and workers. It is totally unacceptable to me that such high levies are applied to these foreign maids and workers.

Take maid levy for example. $190 maid levy on a maid who only earns $400! That is almost half of what the maid earns! That is ridiculous and obscene. Basically, it means Exorbitant EXPLOITATION by our very own government on other people's labour! How could a FIRST WORLD government allowed to exploit other people's labour?

Someone who favor government maid levy argued that these foreign workers should be "taxed". However, I would like to ask, even million dollar ministers are not taxed more than 22%! How could the government tax a maid that earn a miserable wage 30% of the total potential wage ($400 + $190)? Besides, maids are basically taxed through GST, 7% when they consume in Singapore.

Some argue that such levies are to ""protect local workers". But the truth is, it protects nobody as cleaners are still being exploited by their employers and their employers are not paying $590 but only $400 or slightly more than that to their cleaners.

Such high maid levy is basically a "Modern Slavery TAX", an exploitation by the government on other people's labour.

<span style="font-weight:bold;">
Implications of Government levies on Maid Employers</span>

Most of the middle class maid employers would think that this issue about maid levy is none of their business. But the truth is, they are being reaped off. Let me explain using Hong Kong as an example.

In Hong Kong, there is a minimum wage policy for maids. It amounts to about S$670. They used to have maid levy about S$80 but it has been waived lately. (Contrary to Singapore, the levies collected were put into a fund to help local workers in job training.) But with such a wage, the Hong Kongers are employing more experienced and higher quality maids. Most of the time, the basic requirement is at least 3 years of working experience in Singapore.

But in Singapore, what we get are new, inexperienced and young recruits from the countries of original. And most of the time, they used Singapore as a stepping board or training ground to gain enough experience to get themselves employed in other places like Hong Kong, Taiwan or even Middle East. This is basically why Singapore maid employers always have so much problems with their maids and frequent changing of maids.

<span style="font-weight:bold;">Waive the Maid/Worker Levy and set minimum wage</span>

Some people who oppose minimum would use the common propaganda reasoning that minimum wage would increase business cost and cost of living.

First of all, not many MAIN businesses are affected by minimum wages. Most probably only construction sector and the cleaning industry would be affected. But the impace may not be big as the cost of employing foreign workers could be maintained as the same when the workers levy is being cut or waived after the minimum wage is set. Those who exploit local workers from the vulnerable group would have to up their wage accordingly and this is for the cause of prevention of labour exploitation or basically modern slavery. They should not exploit another human being of their fair wage in the very first place.

Some argue that if minimum wage is set for maids, for example, then the middle class would have to suffer higher cost of employing a maid. This may not true at all in Singapore context.

My objective is to eradicate modern slavery, not only by the employers but also the government. Cut down the maid/worker levy to the minimum (maybe $20) or even waive it totally. At the same time, set the minimum wage at the total cost of employing a maid, i.e. $590.

This would mean that the total cost of employing maids would be the same for the middle class employers. And it not only prevent the government of modern slavery but it further prevents exploitation from other employers.

Who gain the most? Not only the maids or low wage foreign workers gain, but local citizens who fall in the vulnerable group will gain too. On top of that, the middle class maid employers would gain by using the increased maid's wage without increasing their cost of employment, to employ more experienced maids. They could demand maids that have worked in places like Malaysia or other places for at least 3 years.

Who would be the loser? The government. Well, if the government is unfair in applying such taxes or levies without diverting such money for the benefits of local workers, then it deserved to be cut from such <span style="font-weight:bold;">UNFAIR and IMMORAL</span> revenues.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[lockeliberal]

I will have to disagree strongly on the points you have raised and the fact that for whatever reason you have chosen to link together issues which have no relevance at all using hyperbolic rhetoric.

A quick search on " Slavery" or " Modern Day Slavery" will give one definition and scope of abuses as done in the modern world as well as its historical antecedents.

You are against low pay for cleaners. They I agree should be paid more, but the amounts you have stated make no economic sense. Even if one raises the pay of maids in SG to $600 which in turn raises the pay of cleaners to $600, this falls far short of the living minimum wage as argued for by TKL and whose argument I believe you support.

I would like to argue for expanded workfare, and lower costs health care, and more easily accessible rental flats for this particular group and if possible subsidized education and scholarships bond free for both poly and uni.

You have yet to make a case why the option as listed above does not make as much sense as a min wage.

Btw the fact that the HK government has chosen to remove the tax does not mean that in fact IT did not to benefit from immoral and unfair revenues in the years prior.

The fact is that low wages have existed globally across the world, because low wages go hand in hand with poverty LDCs. Income and Economic inequality exist globally and nationally and the last group of economist who believed that they could errrr wave a wand and make it go ahead have gone out of fashion with nearly everyone else but you.

That income inequality between countries coupled with the increasing mobility of labor unskilled means that there will ALWAYS be someone willing to work for a lot less in a rich country because net net he earns more than he ever could in a lifetime in his village.

As someone stated , your name is goh meng seng and not god meng seng and it would be good to remember that sometimes our moral wishes or moral imperatives are not bigger than the world we live in.



Cheers

Locke

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Locke,

Living wage, so how much do you think living wage should be? I have no issue of setting higher minimum wage but you will disagree again.

I would say that setting the minimum wage is just the first step. First, I do not agree with government subsidizing those employers who exploit workers by workfare or whatever. In the end, they will be the ones who benefits from such scheme.

Setting the minimum wage as such, will only be the first step, then you can carry on with your text book answers of subsidizing utilities, education, food ration whatever.

The truth is, without fixing a minimum wage, these employers who exploit workers will have all the reasons to lower wage further for their workers.

You may have very stringent definition for Modern Day Slavery, but to me, exploitation of workers for their labour is the most fundamental basis of slavery. Putting a hefty levy tax amounting to half of what the maids get is Slavery tax. You take money off without doing anything from somebody's else labour. You may disagree, but that's how I see it.

I do not need to make a case that subsidies make no sense. In fact, I prefer to have BOTH implemented together. You need to prove to me that with your text book answers of workfare and such will not entice employers to lower wages for this vulnerable group further!

Goh Meng Seng

I will have to disagree strongly on the points you have raised and the fact that for whatever reason you have chosen to link together issues which have no relevance at all using hyperbolic rhetoric.

A quick search on " Slavery" or " Modern Day Slavery" will give one definition and scope of abuses as done in the modern world as well as its historical antecedents.

You are against low pay for cleaners. They I agree should be paid more, but the amounts you have stated make no economic sense. Even if one raises the pay of maids in SG to $600 which in turn raises the pay of cleaners to $600, this falls far short of the living minimum wage as argued for by TKL and whose argument I believe you support.

I would like to argue for expanded workfare, and lower costs health care, and more easily accessible rental flats for this particular group and if possible subsidized education and scholarships bond free for both poly and uni.

You have yet to make a case why the option as listed above does not make as much sense as a min wage.

Btw the fact that the HK government has chosen to remove the tax does not mean that in fact IT did not to benefit from immoral and unfair revenues in the years prior.

The fact is that low wages have existed globally across the world, because low wages go hand in hand with poverty LDCs. Income and Economic inequality exist globally and nationally and the last group of economist who believed that they could errrr wave a wand and make it go ahead have gone out of fashion with nearly everyone else but you.

That income inequality between countries coupled with the increasing mobility of labor unskilled means that there will ALWAYS be someone willing to work for a lot less in a rich country because net net he earns more than he ever could in a lifetime in his village.

As someone stated , your name is goh meng seng and not god meng seng and it would be good to remember that sometimes our moral wishes or moral imperatives are not bigger than the world we live in.



Cheers

Locke

 

[Ramseth]

National soverign rights override human rights. Otherwise, there's no need for passport, visa and custom clearance before entry, no need for work permit or employment pass before seeking employment, no need for PR before simply staying. This is nothing peculiar to Singapore.

Every sovereign nation or even subsidiary territory has this system (to varying degrees according to own national interests, not foreign interests) of differentiating between locals and foreigners in place. If not, then I worry.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

National soverign rights override human rights. Otherwise, there's no need for passport, visa and custom clearance before entry, no need for work permit or employment pass before seeking employment, no need for PR before simply staying. This is nothing peculiar to Singapore.

Every sovereign nation or even subsidiary territory has this system (to varying degrees according to own national interests, not foreign interests) of differentiating between locals and foreigners in place. If not, then I worry.

If you want to believe in that, that's fine. Facist Germany under Hilter also think that way.

But if you want to level it up, on top of the minimum wage, you could give Singaporeans, citizens, additional benefits like Utility subsidies, rental subsidies, food ration and such. I have no problem with that.

The only problem is people thought merely by providing such things would solve the problem of low income earners. That will not be the case as exploitation will continue; the more you give, those who exploit will be happier as they could exploit further!

Thus, setting the minimum wage is a necessary process to curb that. Of course, curbing exploitation must start with the Government first. Putting a Levy tax as much as fifty percent of what the maid take home, that's ridiculous; I would even consider that as Modern Slavery Tax. Not only the maids suffer, Singaporean Employers suffer too.

As you have mentioned in MSN, by raising wages, there will be more "supply"; but this increment of supply would include those who are more experienced in providing maid services. Who benefits? Singaporeans.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

You still haven't answer the question. Why all countries have passport controls and foreign worker controls? All countries are facist? Surely not. Hitler's ideology was euphemistically known as nationalism. In actual fact, it was bigotry and genocide. I'm not confused with the difference. Hope you're not too.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You still haven't answer the question. Why all countries have passport controls and foreign worker controls? All countries are facist? Surely not. Hitler's ideology was euphemistically known as nationalism. In actual fact, it was bigotry and genocide. I'm not confused with the difference. Hope you're not too.

Dear Ramseth,

The essence is still the same. Simple thinking develops into complex ideology like Facism.

I am not even talking about passport and foreign worker controls, but you are talking as if it is in place in Singapore?

No matter who works on this land, they should be treated fairly as to their labour. Whether there is control over foreign workers, that's another issue altogether. I hope you are not confused.

Maybe you are referring to having hefty levies to "CONTROL" foreign workers in flow. That has been proven that this is a flawed logic in Singapore. The only eminent result from imposing levy is that we are getting lower quality with no experience workers into our foreign work force!

If you want to "CONTROL" foreign workers in flow, the only effective way is to deny entries. Else, if you want to meddle with demand and supply of foreign workers, increase the minimum wage to curb demand. You may think increasing levy will do the trick, nope, it does not. Employers will just decrease the wage in response! Exploitation carries on!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[leetahbar]

if they are underpaid, they wouldn't be here. they are conserving S$ to bring it back to their families in their own countries where S$ converted into their local currency is many times multiplied. their costs of living there are also lower which means with the S$ earned here, they could be quite well-off when they returned home with all the S$ earnings saved.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Marxist Madcow

Please do define a min wage which you believe will benefit both maids and "cleaners" which is as you profess the group you seek to help.

By your argument if the market price for a cleaner is $600 and there are gov income supplements to the tune of $600, evil capitalist like me will exploit cleaners and thus end up paying zero dollars in the absence of a min wage because of the gov subsidy. Absurdim infinitum, I leave it to readers to judge.

The reason the market price for a cleaner is $600 is because of the existence of unskilled foreign workers in SG willing to do basic dirty jobs for a lot less because $600 or $300 in Singapore is a fortune once sent back home. Min wage or not nothing changes that equation and the best way to help Singaporeans is wage supplements and getting them out of cleaning jobs and into something else.

Are we exploiting these workers in modern slavery ? No because that is the market price for unskilled labor and the price for that is falling because of a huge supply from poor countries with excess labor.

Btw the gov taxes ur income and my income. Is that unfair of them to errrr get something for doing nothing of my labor ? The UK imposes an income tax of 50% is that errrr slavery to ? The SG less at 22% but is that slavery to ?



Capitalistic and Proud

Locke

 

[leetahbar]

it all boil down to willing buyer, willing seller. the sins of the economic...how to argue??

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

LOL! Sorry, I am no Marxist. I am just Democratic Socialist.

But Ultra-Capitalist Locke must always remember that the Free Market Principles cannot be applied to the cleaners' market!

Goh Meng Seng

Dear Marxist Madcow

Please do define a min wage which you believe will benefit both maids and "cleaners" which is as you profess the group you seek to help.

By your argument if the market price for a cleaner is $600 and there are gov income supplements to the tune of $600, evil capitalist like me will exploit cleaners and thus end up paying zero dollars in the absence of a min wage because of the gov subsidy. Absurdim infinitum, I leave it to readers to judge.

The reason the market price for a cleaner is $600 is because of the existence of unskilled foreign workers in SG willing to do basic dirty jobs for a lot less because $600 or $300 in Singapore is a fortune once sent back home. Min wage or not nothing changes that equation and the best way to help Singaporeans is wage supplements and getting them out of cleaning jobs and into something else.

Are we exploiting these workers in modern slavery ? No because that is the market price for unskilled labor and the price for that is falling because of a huge supply from poor countries with excess labor.

Btw the gov taxes ur income and my income. Is that unfair of them to errrr get something for doing nothing of my labor ? The UK imposes an income tax of 50% is that errrr slavery to ? The SG less at 22% but is that slavery to ?



Capitalistic and Proud

Locke

 

[guavatree]

if they are underpaid, they wouldn't be here. they are conserving S$ to bring it back to their families in their own countries where S$ converted into their local currency is many times multiplied. their costs of living there are also lower which means with the S$ earned here, they could be quite well-off when they returned home with all the S$ earnings saved.

bapok fake monk PAP dog

you're just fcuking jealous!

why don't you go and get a job instead of stealing temple money cheating and conning frenz!

those foreign workers are not like you they work to get money

they don't steal money from temples or cheat and con their frenz!

they don't bash their fathers or call their mothers LAU-CHEE-BYE!

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Locke,

This one just for you

Brazilian Bishop Dom Helder Camara said ‘When I feed the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor are poor they call me a communist’.

Dear Marxist Madcow

Please do define a min wage which you believe will benefit both maids and "cleaners" which is as you profess the group you seek to help.

By your argument if the market price for a cleaner is $600 and there are gov income supplements to the tune of $600, evil capitalist like me will exploit cleaners and thus end up paying zero dollars in the absence of a min wage because of the gov subsidy. Absurdim infinitum, I leave it to readers to judge.

The reason the market price for a cleaner is $600 is because of the existence of unskilled foreign workers in SG willing to do basic dirty jobs for a lot less because $600 or $300 in Singapore is a fortune once sent back home. Min wage or not nothing changes that equation and the best way to help Singaporeans is wage supplements and getting them out of cleaning jobs and into something else.

Are we exploiting these workers in modern slavery ? No because that is the market price for unskilled labor and the price for that is falling because of a huge supply from poor countries with excess labor.

Btw the gov taxes ur income and my income. Is that unfair of them to errrr get something for doing nothing of my labor ? The UK imposes an income tax of 50% is that errrr slavery to ? The SG less at 22% but is that slavery to ?



Capitalistic and Proud

Locke

 

[Wisely]

Dear Marxist Madcow

Please do define a min wage which you believe will benefit both maids and "cleaners" which is as you profess the group you seek to help.

By your argument if the market price for a cleaner is $600 and there are gov income supplements to the tune of $600, evil capitalist like me will exploit cleaners and thus end up paying zero dollars in the absence of a min wage because of the gov subsidy. Absurdim infinitum, I leave it to readers to judge.

The reason the market price for a cleaner is $600 is because of the existence of unskilled foreign workers in SG willing to do basic dirty jobs for a lot less because $600 or $300 in Singapore is a fortune once sent back home. Min wage or not nothing changes that equation and the best way to help Singaporeans is wage supplements and getting them out of cleaning jobs and into something else.

Are we exploiting these workers in modern slavery ? No because that is the market price for unskilled labor and the price for that is falling because of a huge supply from poor countries with excess labor.

Btw the gov taxes ur income and my income. Is that unfair of them to errrr get something for doing nothing of my labor ? The UK imposes an income tax of 50% is that errrr slavery to ? The SG less at 22% but is that slavery to ?



Capitalistic and Proud

Locke

You're Capitalistic and Proud. PAP welcomes you.