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https://navaltoday.com/2017/12/22/germany-returns-lead-f125-frigate-to-builder-report/
Germany returns lead F125 frigate to builder, report
FGS Baden-Württenberg entering its future homeport of Wilhelmshaven in July, 2016. Photo: Bundeswehr/Dennis Kramer
The German defense procurement agency BAAINBw has reportedly returned FGS Baden-Württemberg, the lead ship of German Navy’s new class of F125 frigates, to the Blohm+Voss shipyard.
According to a report in the German Kieler Nachrichten, BAAINBw has requested Blohm+Voss – which is part of the ARGE F125 consortium responsible for delivering the four frigates – to repair all defects identified on the ship during trials.
This is the first time the German defense ministry is returning a ship to the shipbuilder after delivery.
Defects cited in the news report include software and hardware issues, likely the same ones which caused her to miss her commissioning deadline this summer. As Naval Today reported earlier, there are problems with the frigate’s operations room from where the highly-automated ship will be controlled.
This is a complex system as the 7000-tonne frigate (close to the displacement range of a destroyer) will require only half the crew necessary to operate the predecessor Bremen-class frigates.
FGS Baden-Württemberg has been experiencing problems ever since it was delivered to the navy for trials. In addition to hardware and software integration, the frigates have a listing problem. They list 1.3 degrees to starboard and are overweight, an issue that could possibly complicate future upgrade options.
F125 frigates are a new class of ships set to replace the eight Bremen-Class frigates currently in service with the German Navy.
They will be armed with HARPOON and RAM missiles, one 127 mm machine gun, two 27 mm and five 12.7 mm guns. The 150-meter ships will have a complement capacity of 190 persons and a maximum speed of 26 knots.
According to the German Navy, the new frigates will require only half the crew necessary to operate the Bremen-class frigates. They will be able to stay at sea for up to 24 months and thereby reduce the transit times for the crews. The crews will swap in regular intervals directly in the areas of operations which means that the ships will have to make fewer port visits.
Future FGS ‘Rheinland-Pfalz’, the fourth and final frigate in the class, was launched at thyssenkrupp Marine Systems’ Hamburg site on May 24, 2017.
http://www.maritimeherald.com/2017/...-new-fregate-yard-due-technical-shortcomings/
German Navy Refused to Take Over New Fregate From Yard Due to Technical Shortcomings
Maritime Business
December 22, 2017
A+ A-
Email Print
For the first time in history, the German Navy returned a ship to its builders which had already been taken over. The reasons were considerable software and hardware defects on board the “Baden-Württemberg”. The Navy declined the commissioning of the ship, and the competent arms office demanded from the shipyard Blohm + Voss in Hamburg to eliminate the shortcomings. With that, the three-billion-Euro project “F125” faltered again.
The frigate, which was built for six years, will have a longer layover in Hamburg starting on Jan 19, 2017 Extensive functional evidence at sea had not been provided during the trials which took place in the North Sea, off Norway and before Kiel.
The consortium Arge F125 now has the opportunity to correct the faults. The consortium consists of Thyssen Krupp Marine Systems (TKMS/Kiel), which owns the Blohm + Voss Yard, and Lürssen (Bremen).
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-new-frigate-to-the-ship-store-this-christmas
The German Navy Decided To Return Their Bloated New Frigate To The Ship Store This Christmas
It's the first time the German Navy has rejected a ship after it was formally delivered.
By Tyler RogowayDecember 23, 2017
ARGE F125/Lerssen-Defence
SHARE
Tyler RogowayView Tyler Rogoway's Articles
twitter.com/Aviation_Intel
Just weeks ago we told the story of Germany's puzzling Baden-Wurttemberg class Type 125 (F125) frigate program. Not only did we discuss the ship's odd mission and design features, but we also highlighted some of the troubling post-delivery issues with the lead ship in the class. These problems include a persistent list to starboard and the fact that the ship is dramatically overweight, which would limit its performance, increase its cost of operation, and most importantly, negatively impact the Deutsche Marine's ability to add future upgrades to the somewhat sparsely outfitted vessel.
The Curious Case Of Germany's Massive New But Relatively Toothless Type 125 "Frigates"By Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers Have Woefully Inadequate Close-In Air Defense CapabilitiesBy Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Almost All of the UK's Surface Combatants Are in Port While Germany Has No Working SubsBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
The Navy Is Changing Its Plans for its Dumbed-Down Zumwalts and Their Ammoless GunsBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
China's Type 055 Super Destroyer Is A Reality Check For The US And Its AlliesBy Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Now the German Navy has officially declined to commission the vessel and will be returning it to Blohm+Voss shipyard in Hamberg. The decision to do so was based on a number of "software and hardware defects" according to German media reports. The noted software deficiencies are of particular importance because these destroyer-sized vessels will supposedly be operated by a crew of just 120-130 sailors—just half that of the much smaller Bremen class frigates they replace—continuously for months at a time. On top of that, the design's reliability is paramount as the four ships in the class are supposed to deploy far from German shores for up to two years at a time.
According to Navaltoday.com, this is the first time the German Navy has returned a ship to a shipbuilder after delivery. Baden-Wurttenberg had already missed its planned commissioning date last summer.
German Armed Forces via Lurssen Defense
Complicating things further is the fact that the fourth and final F125 frigate, the Rheinland-Pfalz, was already christened last Spring. Because of the concurrent construction and testing procurement strategy, these vessels are likely to suffer from at least some of the same issues as the lead ship in the class.
Aside from this troubling situation, Germany is going through some major tribulations with its naval arm, including the embarrassing reality that the country currently has no operational submarines.
We'll keep you updated as the F125 frigate saga continues to unfold.
Contact the author: [email protected]
Don't forget to sign up
http://www.sohu.com/a/219692651_630241
F-125退船返厂，世界最大护卫舰究竟怎么了？
2018-01-29 20:49 德国
“德国制造的没落，世界国防的警示”
巴登-符腾堡号原订在2017年中旬交舰成军， 然而该舰在试航阶段中陆续发现许多缺失，包括舰体超重178吨、向右倾斜1.3度、自动化控制系统有许多软硬件问题等等，舰上雷达、电子及燃料箱的防火涂层等项目也都出现问题，服役日期一再推迟。其中，舰体超重不仅降低了舰体操纵性能，更减少了船舰在日后服役生涯的升级冗余度。舰上系统发生的问题又以自动化软件最为明显，F-125型护卫舰其设计强调的就是高可靠性低后勤要求，旨在能长期海外远航部署，自动化系统的可靠性极其重要、不容妥协的，这是十分严重的问题。
2017年12月22日，德国国防采购局（BAAINBw）宣布，将巴登-符腾堡号退回博隆·福斯（Blohm + Voss）造船厂来解决这些问题，从2018年1月19日起长期进坞；这是德国海军乃至世界海军中罕有、试航之后无法交舰成军而必须退回船厂返工的纪录。德国许多国防专家指出，巴登-符腾堡级的设计存在诸多棘手问题，凸显出德国军工专业水平下滑。位于柏林的“德国国际与安全事务研究所”武器采购专家迪考夫（Marcel Dickow）表示，巴登符腾堡级最初计划的野心过高、搞得太复杂，项目管理一团糟，并批评德国海军和政府“事前都没考虑，就把钱砸进计划里”。
位于柏林的“德国外交关系协会”国防产业专家莫林（Christian Molling）指出，德国的军事采购已经“彻底成为灾难”，得花好几年才能解决问题；莫林表示，国防采购周期的拖长导致一整代的德国工程师很多没碰过这样重大的国防采购计划，他们并不是失去技能，而是压根就没学过；工程专业的高学历毕业生不愿意进入武器制造业，而是偏好有较高薪资和升职空间的更大民间公司。柏林的“欧洲管理与技术学院”主任盖肯（Sandro Gaycken）也表示，德国国防相关企业吸引不到能研发尖端软件系统所需的毕业生。
一些资深专家认为，德国一如欧洲许多国家，在后冷战时代陷入多兵种融合的迷思中；这种思维是为了节约军事开支，结果是单一兵种的军官职位数量减少、各军种的参谋人员的职权下降，各军种的声音与实际需求在官僚化的“多军种联合”体制下遭到漠视；许多新开发的军事装备也是更多由民间军工企业主导研制、结合多兵种的需求，而缺少了军方用户对武器系统最终成效的直接介入。过去各军种都有相当的专职单位来负责武器系统研制工作，从概念构想、规格制订、技术发展、招标选商、测试交付等阶段全程参与负责，同时也包括介入武器系统在服役期间的后勤支持管理；在冷战时代，德国军方绝对不会将武器的研发采购仅仅当作和一个第三方企业签订的合同。
然而，到了研制F-125巴登-符腾堡级护卫舰的时代，德国军方对研制武器系统的各种项目规划与管理工作都大不如前；军备研制项目被分细分为几个长期阶段，包括前期可行性研究、可行性研究、研究发展、建立工业制造产能、批量生产等合约阶段，账面上看起来似乎精细，然而由于军方减少了以最终效能为导向的管理方式，这样的程序往往会流于形式；这种情况下，F-125绵长复杂的需求制定就发生了前述各种不切实际，或者无法适应威胁环境逐渐变迁的情况。除了极少数在先进领域研究长期大量投资的国家如美国，依照前述程序下所研制产生出来的武器系统，其质量和效能都是取决于当前已有的工艺技术；在大多数情况下，前期可行性研究与可行性研究阶段花费资源，到最后只是将武器系统中的厂商、产品供应关系串连起来，并按照可获得的预算来进行开发，而不是掌握计划最终成本与成效。
结果到最后，研发阶段总是超支了巨额开发经费，最后能够采购的武器数量低于预期，无法满足军队的实际运作需求。此外，由于这些武器系统的后勤保障都由军工产业、承包商垄断，军方的控制力低下，结果就更降低了军方手中作战装备的堪用性与制造性。
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Germany returns lead F125 frigate to builder, report
FGS Baden-Württenberg entering its future homeport of Wilhelmshaven in July, 2016. Photo: Bundeswehr/Dennis Kramer
The German defense procurement agency BAAINBw has reportedly returned FGS Baden-Württemberg, the lead ship of German Navy’s new class of F125 frigates, to the Blohm+Voss shipyard.
According to a report in the German Kieler Nachrichten, BAAINBw has requested Blohm+Voss – which is part of the ARGE F125 consortium responsible for delivering the four frigates – to repair all defects identified on the ship during trials.
This is the first time the German defense ministry is returning a ship to the shipbuilder after delivery.
Defects cited in the news report include software and hardware issues, likely the same ones which caused her to miss her commissioning deadline this summer. As Naval Today reported earlier, there are problems with the frigate’s operations room from where the highly-automated ship will be controlled.
This is a complex system as the 7000-tonne frigate (close to the displacement range of a destroyer) will require only half the crew necessary to operate the predecessor Bremen-class frigates.
FGS Baden-Württemberg has been experiencing problems ever since it was delivered to the navy for trials. In addition to hardware and software integration, the frigates have a listing problem. They list 1.3 degrees to starboard and are overweight, an issue that could possibly complicate future upgrade options.
F125 frigates are a new class of ships set to replace the eight Bremen-Class frigates currently in service with the German Navy.
They will be armed with HARPOON and RAM missiles, one 127 mm machine gun, two 27 mm and five 12.7 mm guns. The 150-meter ships will have a complement capacity of 190 persons and a maximum speed of 26 knots.
According to the German Navy, the new frigates will require only half the crew necessary to operate the Bremen-class frigates. They will be able to stay at sea for up to 24 months and thereby reduce the transit times for the crews. The crews will swap in regular intervals directly in the areas of operations which means that the ships will have to make fewer port visits.
Future FGS ‘Rheinland-Pfalz’, the fourth and final frigate in the class, was launched at thyssenkrupp Marine Systems’ Hamburg site on May 24, 2017.
http://www.maritimeherald.com/2017/...-new-fregate-yard-due-technical-shortcomings/
German Navy Refused to Take Over New Fregate From Yard Due to Technical Shortcomings
Maritime Business
December 22, 2017
A+ A-
Email Print
For the first time in history, the German Navy returned a ship to its builders which had already been taken over. The reasons were considerable software and hardware defects on board the “Baden-Württemberg”. The Navy declined the commissioning of the ship, and the competent arms office demanded from the shipyard Blohm + Voss in Hamburg to eliminate the shortcomings. With that, the three-billion-Euro project “F125” faltered again.
The frigate, which was built for six years, will have a longer layover in Hamburg starting on Jan 19, 2017 Extensive functional evidence at sea had not been provided during the trials which took place in the North Sea, off Norway and before Kiel.
The consortium Arge F125 now has the opportunity to correct the faults. The consortium consists of Thyssen Krupp Marine Systems (TKMS/Kiel), which owns the Blohm + Voss Yard, and Lürssen (Bremen).
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-new-frigate-to-the-ship-store-this-christmas
The German Navy Decided To Return Their Bloated New Frigate To The Ship Store This Christmas
It's the first time the German Navy has rejected a ship after it was formally delivered.
By Tyler RogowayDecember 23, 2017
- The War Zone
- Automation
- Baden-Württemberg class
- Baden-Wurttemberg
- Blohm+Voss
- F125
- Frigate
- german
- German Navy
- list
- Lurssen
- overweight
- Ships
- Software
- trials
ARGE F125/Lerssen-Defence
SHARE
Tyler RogowayView Tyler Rogoway's Articles
twitter.com/Aviation_Intel
Just weeks ago we told the story of Germany's puzzling Baden-Wurttemberg class Type 125 (F125) frigate program. Not only did we discuss the ship's odd mission and design features, but we also highlighted some of the troubling post-delivery issues with the lead ship in the class. These problems include a persistent list to starboard and the fact that the ship is dramatically overweight, which would limit its performance, increase its cost of operation, and most importantly, negatively impact the Deutsche Marine's ability to add future upgrades to the somewhat sparsely outfitted vessel.
The Curious Case Of Germany's Massive New But Relatively Toothless Type 125 "Frigates"By Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers Have Woefully Inadequate Close-In Air Defense CapabilitiesBy Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Almost All of the UK's Surface Combatants Are in Port While Germany Has No Working SubsBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
The Navy Is Changing Its Plans for its Dumbed-Down Zumwalts and Their Ammoless GunsBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
China's Type 055 Super Destroyer Is A Reality Check For The US And Its AlliesBy Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Now the German Navy has officially declined to commission the vessel and will be returning it to Blohm+Voss shipyard in Hamberg. The decision to do so was based on a number of "software and hardware defects" according to German media reports. The noted software deficiencies are of particular importance because these destroyer-sized vessels will supposedly be operated by a crew of just 120-130 sailors—just half that of the much smaller Bremen class frigates they replace—continuously for months at a time. On top of that, the design's reliability is paramount as the four ships in the class are supposed to deploy far from German shores for up to two years at a time.
According to Navaltoday.com, this is the first time the German Navy has returned a ship to a shipbuilder after delivery. Baden-Wurttenberg had already missed its planned commissioning date last summer.
German Armed Forces via Lurssen Defense
Complicating things further is the fact that the fourth and final F125 frigate, the Rheinland-Pfalz, was already christened last Spring. Because of the concurrent construction and testing procurement strategy, these vessels are likely to suffer from at least some of the same issues as the lead ship in the class.
Aside from this troubling situation, Germany is going through some major tribulations with its naval arm, including the embarrassing reality that the country currently has no operational submarines.
We'll keep you updated as the F125 frigate saga continues to unfold.
Contact the author: [email protected]
Don't forget to sign up
http://www.sohu.com/a/219692651_630241
F-125退船返厂，世界最大护卫舰究竟怎么了？
2018-01-29 20:49 德国
“德国制造的没落，世界国防的警示”
巴登-符腾堡号原订在2017年中旬交舰成军， 然而该舰在试航阶段中陆续发现许多缺失，包括舰体超重178吨、向右倾斜1.3度、自动化控制系统有许多软硬件问题等等，舰上雷达、电子及燃料箱的防火涂层等项目也都出现问题，服役日期一再推迟。其中，舰体超重不仅降低了舰体操纵性能，更减少了船舰在日后服役生涯的升级冗余度。舰上系统发生的问题又以自动化软件最为明显，F-125型护卫舰其设计强调的就是高可靠性低后勤要求，旨在能长期海外远航部署，自动化系统的可靠性极其重要、不容妥协的，这是十分严重的问题。
2017年12月22日，德国国防采购局（BAAINBw）宣布，将巴登-符腾堡号退回博隆·福斯（Blohm + Voss）造船厂来解决这些问题，从2018年1月19日起长期进坞；这是德国海军乃至世界海军中罕有、试航之后无法交舰成军而必须退回船厂返工的纪录。德国许多国防专家指出，巴登-符腾堡级的设计存在诸多棘手问题，凸显出德国军工专业水平下滑。位于柏林的“德国国际与安全事务研究所”武器采购专家迪考夫（Marcel Dickow）表示，巴登符腾堡级最初计划的野心过高、搞得太复杂，项目管理一团糟，并批评德国海军和政府“事前都没考虑，就把钱砸进计划里”。
位于柏林的“德国外交关系协会”国防产业专家莫林（Christian Molling）指出，德国的军事采购已经“彻底成为灾难”，得花好几年才能解决问题；莫林表示，国防采购周期的拖长导致一整代的德国工程师很多没碰过这样重大的国防采购计划，他们并不是失去技能，而是压根就没学过；工程专业的高学历毕业生不愿意进入武器制造业，而是偏好有较高薪资和升职空间的更大民间公司。柏林的“欧洲管理与技术学院”主任盖肯（Sandro Gaycken）也表示，德国国防相关企业吸引不到能研发尖端软件系统所需的毕业生。
一些资深专家认为，德国一如欧洲许多国家，在后冷战时代陷入多兵种融合的迷思中；这种思维是为了节约军事开支，结果是单一兵种的军官职位数量减少、各军种的参谋人员的职权下降，各军种的声音与实际需求在官僚化的“多军种联合”体制下遭到漠视；许多新开发的军事装备也是更多由民间军工企业主导研制、结合多兵种的需求，而缺少了军方用户对武器系统最终成效的直接介入。过去各军种都有相当的专职单位来负责武器系统研制工作，从概念构想、规格制订、技术发展、招标选商、测试交付等阶段全程参与负责，同时也包括介入武器系统在服役期间的后勤支持管理；在冷战时代，德国军方绝对不会将武器的研发采购仅仅当作和一个第三方企业签订的合同。
然而，到了研制F-125巴登-符腾堡级护卫舰的时代，德国军方对研制武器系统的各种项目规划与管理工作都大不如前；军备研制项目被分细分为几个长期阶段，包括前期可行性研究、可行性研究、研究发展、建立工业制造产能、批量生产等合约阶段，账面上看起来似乎精细，然而由于军方减少了以最终效能为导向的管理方式，这样的程序往往会流于形式；这种情况下，F-125绵长复杂的需求制定就发生了前述各种不切实际，或者无法适应威胁环境逐渐变迁的情况。除了极少数在先进领域研究长期大量投资的国家如美国，依照前述程序下所研制产生出来的武器系统，其质量和效能都是取决于当前已有的工艺技术；在大多数情况下，前期可行性研究与可行性研究阶段花费资源，到最后只是将武器系统中的厂商、产品供应关系串连起来，并按照可获得的预算来进行开发，而不是掌握计划最终成本与成效。
结果到最后，研发阶段总是超支了巨额开发经费，最后能够采购的武器数量低于预期，无法满足军队的实际运作需求。此外，由于这些武器系统的后勤保障都由军工产业、承包商垄断，军方的控制力低下，结果就更降低了军方手中作战装备的堪用性与制造性。
