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General Election: PAP Splitting?

SneeringTree

Alfrescian
Loyal
Alot of mixed signels about the GE. It seems that LKY does not trust his son to do the right thing (i.e. to not call for snap elections) and has enlisted his prostitute press to carry his message.

I'll be worried too if I were him, considering his son has completely misread the tide against PAP in the 2006 elections.
 

TeeKee

Alfrescian
Loyal
Alot of mixed signels about the GE. It seems that LKY does not trust his son to do the right thing (i.e. to not call for snap elections) and has enlisted his prostitute press to carry his message.

I'll be worried too if I were him, considering his son has completely misread the tide against PAP in the 2006 elections.

so got election or not?
 

commoner

Alfrescian
Loyal
maybe Pinkie is trying to break away from his evil's father hold,,,,,,,,

with so many miniskirts and MPs spewing rubbish for past many months, time to weed the poison ivy, Shit say, WKS, LBH, Charles, Raymond,,,,,,

economic not likely to improve in next 24 months, great time to have GE to have the next mandate for million dollar salaries,,,,,

LKY being LKY, is good at sleight of hand, and slit your neck unprepared
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Dear Sneering Tree,

You see that too? :wink:

But I would say, the PM being a Mathematician, believes more in statistical findings rather than some gut feelings or instincts. There must be compelling reasons for the PM to consider a snap election instead to wait out for 2011 or even over stretch it to 2012.

Yes, the ground may not be sweet now but it is still within the knowing. The economy has not slumped till 8% or 10% recession just yet. Do anyone here remember what was it like to have 8% or 10% recession in the past? Even that, with the pressure of cheap Foreign labour as local jobs substitution, the pressure of a 5% recession would be all unbearable, needless to say a 8% or even 10% recession!

In this respect, betting on a speedy recovery in 2010 or even 2011 so to call for the GE is rather a bigger risk than having a snap poll now. There are a few reasons for this one:

1) Even if the economy does recover in 2010 or even 2011, the pain of the 10% recession would be so much unbearable that widespread discontent might have built up so much to a boiling point.

2) The MYTH of PAP's supreme Elites' ability that justify their TOP million dollars pay would be completely wash out. This is especially so IF the economic recession drags on longer than it should. And by the look of it, the probability of such happening is pretty high.

I think if GIC under the old man could make a poor judgment on the timing of buying into troubled financial institutions, I really doubt the old man's political judgment as well. With due respect, it seems that he has made not only one poor judgment so far, but so many in a short period of time, from Golden Period, US$200 per barrel to GIC investment in the foreign banks, it really demonstrates that age does catch up with him after all.

Thus, in contrary, I think if the PM really calls for the snap poll even with the expectation of losing more seats (10 or 15 maybe), it would be a better judgment call at the end of the day. The risk of having a GE in 2011 or even 2012 may have even worse outcome for PAP.

Goh Meng Seng




Alot of mixed signels about the GE. It seems that LKY does not trust his son to do the right thing (i.e. to not call for snap elections) and has enlisted his prostitute press to carry his message.

I'll be worried too if I were him, considering his son has completely misread the tide against PAP in the 2006 elections.
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
His partying son has failed him and the country miserably ever since he took office as PM. GCT is worried too and sometime he would come out to clarify matter as to hint to LHL not to commit any wrong "act".
 

TeeKee

Alfrescian
Loyal
so how much debts govt. bonds have been issued?

will generations of sinkies need to pay in future?
 

snrcitizen

Alfrescian
Loyal
Alot of mixed signels about the GE. It seems that LKY does not trust his son to do the right thing (i.e. to not call for snap elections) and has enlisted his prostitute press to carry his message.

I am surprised that you still believe the old fart when he farts.

The old devil has bought over the souls of all the PAP members, from dogs to cockroaches, so your thread title question of "PAP Splitting" will neber happen while the old devil is still around, even when he has turned ghost.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
maybe Pinkie is trying to break away from his evil's father hold,,,,,,,,

with so many miniskirts and MPs spewing rubbish for past many months, time to weed the poison ivy, Shit say, WKS, LBH, Charles, Raymond,,,,,,

economic not likely to improve in next 24 months, great time to have GE to have the next mandate for million dollar salaries,,,,,

LKY being LKY, is good at sleight of hand, and slit your neck unprepared


plus hairdo lim, cry baby lim...seems their ar so many, limping limps, in the cabinet:biggrin:
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You sound very sure. You have insider's information?

Actually, why should we sorry, if they decided to hol elections, tomorrow on a Sunday or a Monday or... I really do not care!

If you have a conscience, given the chance to vote...vote with your conscience..what is good for you now, tomorrow & your children future, you think the same goons, that had brought you so far & is now mired in misery; can still bring you forward...why not!?

Your conscience..less the money etc..dished out!:eek:
 

Frankiestine

Alfrescian
Loyal
Elections or no elections, what difference is it going to make? What can those useless opposition do to take the situation round to their own advantage? Have we heard anything from them with regards to this down turn? End of the day, they still going to get their ass whopped by those scums.


:oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:
 

goldenmonkey

Alfrescian
Loyal
Elections or no elections, what difference is it going to make? What can those useless opposition do to take the situation round to their own advantage? Have we heard anything from them with regards to this down turn? End of the day, they still going to get their ass whopped by those scums.
:oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:


The oppositions are "useless", for now, because we/they do not know how useful they are.
Who was there to bring down the house when the utilities went up more than 20%? Who was there to make noise when public transport raised relentlessly - and then "e shi e shi" (meekly) cut a 0.2cents when oil tumbled to the lowest point in history?

We do not need scholars. We need whiners, not in cyberspace but in parliment. I say get at least 6 nominated into parliment. Tell PAP it is actually to better them for doing so. No Shit.
 

StinkaporeFlyer

Alfrescian
Loyal
judging by the performance of the opposition, i doubt many sinkies trust them.
better the devil you know than the devil you don't!
 

newyorker88

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Sneering Tree,


In this respect, betting on a speedy recovery in 2010 or even 2011 so to call for the GE is rather a bigger risk than having a snap poll now. There are a few reasons for this one
Goh Meng Seng

There is always the fear factor in chilling the peasents who are always ready to believe that if PAP is out, they will lose more jobs.

Or the crap about a strong govenment to tide over crisis.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1
Monday, 09 February 2009
Chee Soon Juan

In what has become a landmark speech Minister Mentor pointed out in July 2007 that, thanks to his party, the economy was headed skywards: Tourism, consumer confidence, job creation, inflow of wealth, etc were all at an all time high. Not only was the economy going great guns, social development was apparently also doing swimmingly.

In fact things were so rosy then that Mr Lee couldn't hide his excitement: "If there are no wars or oil crises, this golden period can stretch out over many years."

Barely one, let alone many, later Singapore's economy started to go into a tailspin – and, might it be pointed out, there were no wars or oil crises.

In other words, the MM's prediction was spectacularly wrong – not that there is anything surprising with that, Mr Lee had been wildly off the mark many times before:

In January 1998 Mr Lee predicted: "I don't think you're going to get a significant or dramatic political change in Indonesia." Four months later, Suharto was toppled.

In 1995, the then Senior Minister proclaimed: "Both the Suzhou and Singapore sides recognise that they need to work as a team for the Suzhou Industrial Park to compete successfully..." Three years later, the project collapsed.

In 1997 just prior to the general elections, Mr Lee told HDB residents that upgrading would lead to a "40 to 50 percent increase in the value of your HDB property." Before the year was over, property prices plunged with the advent of the Asian financial crises.

There's nothing wrong, of course, about making bad predictions. Let's be fair, everyone at some point has made calls that have turned out embarrassingly wrong. Mr Lee has made, and will make, his fair share.

The difference with the MM's words is that they drive policy formulation which involves spending of billions of dollars of public monies. Once spoken, these words precipitate PAP groupthink; few dare to tell the Mr Lee that he is wrong, let alone hold him accountable for his errors in judgement which have catastrophic consequences.

Oracle of the East he is not but you wouldn't know that if you spoke to the servants with whom the MM surrounds himself and on whom he lavishes made-in-heaven salaries. These highly intelligent individuals apparently go into a synaptic short-circuit when they are in his presence and suspend all form of independent thinking. (See also Tearing Down the Facade).

Herein lies the danger, which is that of allowing one man to call the shots and of accepting Mr Lee's propaganda that he and the people he has anointed are the only one's who have the answers to our future. This danger must be highlighted, and highlighted again and again until it drenches our national psyche.

In the beginning...

It is clear from his utterances in that fateful 2007 speech how little Mr Lee understood of the economic world. Just months before the crash of the global financial labyrinth, at a time when the system was at its bursting point, the MM told us all:

We have drawn in many professionals, especially in financial services, which has expanded to its highest ever levels. Many financial institutions have moved their top people and their regional headquarters to Singapore...

Indeed, Mr Lee and his ministers had gone into overdrive to push Singapore to be the financial capital of the world, regardless of whether our national infrastructure was equipped to handle such a brutal and risky transformation or not. He did not see, nor did he understand, the decadence that had enveloped Wall Street and that the corruption was already driving the world's financial system to its knees. He was still telling Singaporeans that the boom could go on for years.

Here's what had happened: Banks in the US were hedging on the housing mortgage market through financial instruments they called "credit default swaps".

These fancily named derivatives were really nothing more than side bets -- not unlike the kind that avid football fans place when they watch two teams play each other. The bettors need not buy a direct stake in the teams but stood to gain or lose depending on the outcome of the game.

This was what happened at the banks: Essentially, bets were taken on how the mortgage-loans performed. If mortgagees defaulted on their loans, insurance would be paid out through the credit swaps that investors purchased.

Missing the signs
Of course, the financial institutions raked in the money when the US housing market was on a roll between 1996 and 2006, with much of activity fueled, unfortunately, by unscrupulous lending. Housing loans were given to people, called subprime borrowers, who did not meet the criteria for borrowing at the prevailing interest rate. This was a recipe for trouble because as soon as the US economy and the housing market started to wobble, many of these borrowers were unable to keep up with their loan payments.

Then someone screamed “Subprime!" and all of a sudden the housing industry pancaked. Mortgage delinquencies and foreclosures escalated as Americans defaulted on their housing loans and banks were left high and dry.

But as bad as the debacle was, it still wasn't the worst thing that happened to the banks. On the side, investors came a calling and wanted to be paid because they had bought the credit default swaps. The problem was that the banks and investment houses had sold so much of these instruments that they were simply overwhelmed by the amounts they owed (estimates have it in the trillions of dollars). Unbelievable as it may seem, these financial institutions did not set aside any funds to make these payouts. The scheme was really nothing more than legalised gambling run by over-leveraged bookies. Hence the banking meltdown.

Of course, hind-sight suffers not from astigmatism. But there were many signs that all was not right within the financial world. Billionaire investor Mr Warren Buffet had repeatedly warned of the scourge of the derivatives market, calling them “weapons of mass financial destruction”.

As early as 2002, Mr Buffet was already warning: “I view derivatives as time bombs, both for the parties that deal in them and the economic system.”

Warren Buffet
In 2003, he repeated his message that derivatives can push companies onto a "spiral that can lead to a corporate meltdown" and didn't mince words saying that these financial schemes have been devised by "madmen".

Mr Buffet rang the warning bell again in May 2007: "There is an electronic herd of people around the world managing an amazing amount of money...I think it's a fool's game."

As prescient as he was, Mr Buffet was not the first to sound the alarm against the Wall Street whiz kids. Dr Frank Partnoy, an investment banker himself before he became a professor at the University of San Diego, had written a book back in 1997 entitled F.I.A.S.C.O. in which he warned about the shenanigans that were going on in the financial houses.

He authored another book in 2003, Infectious Greed, where he again called attention to the marketing of derivatives and how this was destabilising the financial market.

Another academic, New York University's Dr Nouriel Roubini, had warned at the World Economic Forum in 2007 that a “hard landing” was about to come with the bubbles created by the financial system. (Were any of our ministers there?) He predicted that all the unbridled wheeling and dealing would end in “painful consequences for the U.S. and the global economy.”

Note that these red flags were all raised before Mr Lee Kuan Yew made his “golden period” speech (Mr Buffet's "fools' game" warning came just two months before).

In fact, just before the MM's speech, Bear Stearns, then the fifth largest investment bank in the US, was breathing its last breaths. Two of its hedge funds were up to their eyeballs in the mortgage derivatives market and they were bleeding funds. The bank was losing so much money that shortly thereafter it filed for bankruptcy.

If the Buffets and Partnoys were screaming about the risks, and if Bear Stearns had collapsed in such a stunning fashion, why did Mr Lee and his cabinet ministers not note these danger signals and adopt a more cautionary tone in his speech? Were they all asleep at the wheel?

But not only was there no circumspection, Mr Lee was urging everyone to “maximise our opportunities in this golden period”!


I think if GIC under the old man could make a poor judgment on the timing of buying into troubled financial institutions, I really doubt the old man's political judgment as well. With due respect, it seems that he has made not only one poor judgment so far, but so many in a short period of time, from Golden Period, US$200 per barrel to GIC investment in the foreign banks, it really demonstrates that age does catch up with him after all.
 
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