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"FM's" Darling Daughter Thio Li-Ann Whacks Militant Secularists/ST

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
i gather mumsy was looking on proudly in the public gallery yesterday:rolleyes:

Straits Times - No 'bright line' between religion and politics - edited excerpt from a speech by NMP Thio Li-ann in Parliament

May 27, 2009
SINGAPORE'S POLITICAL ARENA
No 'bright line' between religion and politics
This is an edited excerpt from a speech by NMP Thio Li-ann in Parliament yesterday during the debate on the President's Address

IN A recent interview, Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng reiterated that religion and politics must not be mixed. This is sound, though there are difficulties of definition as no bright line demarcates 'religion' from 'politics'. We need to understand what 'secularism' entails in Singapore for more specific guidance.

A state's attitude towards religion turns upon its model of constitutional secularism. 'Secularism' is a protean, chameleon-like term: what it means depends on the context and who is using it; it can be a virtue or a vice. It is timely to eschew glibness and examine the Singapore model of secularism with precision.

There are in fact many secularisms or degrees of secularity. This complex term needs to be unpacked.

Historically, 'secularism' originates from the Latin 'saeculum', meaning 'temporal', worldly affairs, rather than 'spiritual', other-worldly matters. The word 'secular' is an emblem of intense historical conflict.

Today, in some circles, 'secularism' connotes systematic hostility towards religion, as a synonym for a politicised form of ideological atheism whose creed is that humanity is destined to wholly shed religious conviction. The atheistic word was made flesh in the atheistic state produced by the Russian Revolution of 1917, devoted to Marx's assumption that religion stupefies the masses and must be eradicated to bring forth the new Communist Man.

The principle of secularity dates back to the Roman Empire. It derived from the teaching of Jesus to 'render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's'. This principle of limited government opposed state absolutism in suggesting Caesar did not wield absolute authority: While a citizen was to obey civil authority, he was to enjoy freedom from state interference in matters pertaining to the worship of God. Religious liberty thus limits state power. America first experimented constitutionally with dividing sacred from secular authority, rejecting the European conflation of civil and religious power.

Senior Minister of State Zainul Abidin Rasheed described Singapore secularism as 'secularism with a soul'. This deft juxtaposing of the material and the metaphysical speaks to the cooperative relation between state and religion.

The Constitution does not forbid the state to lend financial or other support to a religion; thus we have the Islamic Religious Council of Singapore as a statutory government body serving the Muslim community.

In 1989, Foreign Minister George Yeo observed the Government was 'secular but it is certainly not atheistic'. This evinces a rejection of a thick, atheistic version of secularism.

Secular humanism, which posits a morality independent of God, is a comprehensive anti-theistic world view. Some courts recognise it as a religion. It dogmatically asserts the absence of God, without any empirical evidence. We know from elementary logic that it is impossible to prove a universal negative. Whether God exists or not cannot be proved or disproved by evidence or logic.

It takes faith to believe or not to believe in God or gods. A lot of faith is needed to believe there is no divine. As Turkish journalist Mustafa Akyol wrote: 'It is the atheist's opium to regard that unsubstantiated faith as established fact.' Thick secularism is thus an anti-religion religion.

Secular democracies should be neutral not only between traditional religions but also regarding modern religions with atheistic foundations.

What is the situation in Singapore? DPM Wong emphasised the secular nature of the political arena and how keeping 'religion' and 'politics' separate was a key rule of political engagement.

What this means specifically is that laws and policies derive their legitimacy not from divine sanction but from a democratically elected government. Law generally applies to and equally protects all citizens, regardless of race, religion or social status. Clearly, the Singapore model of secularism is anti-theocratic in that religious tenets and secular law are separated, not conflated.

While anti-theocratic, the Singapore secularism is not anti-religious. This is a vital distinction.

DPM Wong welcomed the public service of individuals inspired by their religious convictions; they also 'set' society's 'moral tone'. He affirmed that religious individuals had the same right as other citizens to 'express their views on issues in the public space' guided by their beliefs.

Religion is thus separated from politics, but, religion is not separated from public life and culture. Everyone has values, whether shaped by religious or secular ideologies; all may participate in public discourse to forge an ethical social consensus. While religion is personal, it is not exclusively private and has a social dimension which is not to be trivialised.

Thus, Singapore secularism is 'agnostic' and 'thin'. The Government does not favour or disfavour any particular religion. We practise 'accommodative secularism' described by the Court of Appeal as removing restrictions to one's choice of religious belief. Religious values do have a role in public debate.

Agnostic secularism of this sort is a virtue; it is a 'framework' which facilitates the peaceful co-existence of religions.

Conversely, militant secularism is an illiberal and undemocratic vice in seeking to gag religious views in the public square and so to privilege its atheistic values, as in communist states.

Secular fundamentalists are oppressive where they seek to mute religiously informed convictions in public debate, by demonising a view as religious.

Militant exclusionist secularism is thus a recipe for social disharmony; it feeds the 'culture wars' in the US and provokes those it seeks to exclude. It will not promote unity in diversity.

When it comes to moral disagreements and public policy, the press is powerfully positioned to promote informed debate. However the press may, by biased and selective reporting, misrepresent, distort or obscure an issue. We need to broaden our understanding of responsible journalism in Singapore, which rejects the extremes of an adversarial American watchdog and a Pravda-like lapdog, or running dog.

The feedback I received from friends and strangers on the reporting of the Aware controversy was that much of the reporting, particularly in one paper, was biased. It largely lacked a diversity of views in singing the same chorus that religious groups should not get involved in secular organisations. Some spoke of their new lists of 'fair' and 'unfair' journalists.

Responsible journalism should extend to covering a diversity of views, not a journalist's preferred view. It should include the accurate representation of differing viewpoints, and not paint the fringe as mainstream or the pathological as normal. Readers may then see all sides of an issue and decide what is true.

This is important given the near monopolistic position of Singapore broadsheets. A lawyer recently returned from London wrote to me expressing horror in finding local papers apparently had nothing better to report than the Aware saga, as opposed to the more interesting British papers which offered a lot more variety.

This made me somewhat nostalgic for my student days in Cambridge, where I could, with chocolate croissant and Nescafe coffee in hand, survey a range of perspectives from The Times, Guardian, Independent or Telegraph.
 

shOUTloud

Alfrescian
Loyal
I, for one, is going to be really happy when Thio Li Ann bows out of parliament. Her nonsense about militant secularism conveniently did not mention about militant religious fanatics like her and her mum.

These Christians, macham like those from Cornerstone Church who hanged around Greenridge Secondary to talk to the students, should be all exposed for their fork-tongued messages.
 

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
"Agnostic secularism of this sort is a virtue; it is a 'framework' which facilitates the peaceful co-existence of religions. Conversely, militant secularism is an illiberal and undemocratic vice in seeking to gag religious views in the public square and so to privilege its atheistic values, as in communist states. Secular fundamentalists are oppressive where they seek to mute religiously informed convictions in public debate, by demonising a view as religious. "


My Dear Dr Thio

Half of the US describes themselves as church going, can we say the same for Singapore ? The US culture wars occur because organizations like " Focus on Family" and Frank Dobson Christian Conservatives have chosen to actively support, lobby and become a political force in the US. They have chosen wilfuly to ignore the " Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasar and Render unto God what is Gods principle," Can one inmagine the same forces tearing Singapore apart where the demographics are so different

Who was trying to gag whose voice in the public square ? The fact that Choices and Focus on Family from Dr Thio's church can exists in Singapore is direct evidence to the contrary of her assertion. Secularism does not dispute the right of Dr Thio to argue against AWARE in the public square and to voice her legitimate concerns. Secularism disputes the rights of people of religious faith seeking to suppress the views of individuals very differing from their own.




Locke
 

mscitw

Alfrescian
Loyal
Ugly Thio was not ashamed of her mum's dirty tactics.

For the Thio clan, there is only their way and the wrong way.

Hong is still probably looking the line drawn by his deity. He will spend the rest of his days bashing bapoks ..... from his pulpit.

Poor Hong, exposed as a low end liar. Yang was a opportunist who decided to retreat after intense public speculation over their silly churches. Archbishop Chew had to kowtow to WKS and rubbish their churches' involvement and giving the catholics a good excuse to showcase 'tolerance'. The catholics learnt well since the Marxist Conspiracy.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
May 28, 2009
DECIDING PUBLIC POLICY
Facts outshine faith

I DISAGREE with Nominated Member of Parliament Thio Li-Ann's assertion yesterday ('Secularism practised in S'pore 'does not exclude religion'') that religion is appropriate in the public sphere.
On the contrary, it is precisely because of Singapore's multi-religious nature that pure secularism in the public sphere is essential to ensure that no policies or public debates encroach on the beliefs or disbeliefs of any individual.

By basing an argument on one's religious views, one would essentially alienate the views of other Singaporeans who are of other religions or are non- believers.

Such an argument would be non-inclusive, narrow and, worst of all, belief- specific.

In a country where people of various religions and non-believers alike co- exist, it would be extremely unreasonable and self-centred to assert that a policy be implemented because of the beliefs of a single religion, especially if this policy contradicts the beliefs or principles of another group.

An argument about a policy or social issue should be made based on its own merits.

Instead of appealing to one's faith as the basis of arguing for or against a policy or law, one must instead appeal to the scientific, sociological or economic facts of the issue.

Only then can Singaporeans be confident that the policy was made with each citizen's secular interests in mind, and not as a form of favouritism towards one or a few religions.

In this way, pure secularism, with its clear separation of religion and politics, is the only rational option for a multi-religious country, to ensure every religion is free to practise in its own private space.

Religion-based arguments have no place in public debates about policies. Only logic and reason should dominate discourse in the public sphere.

Felicia Tan (Miss)
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
"The most appropriate way to debate publicly must still be based on a secular platform"
07:40 PM May 27, 2009
Letter from Xue Jianyue

I refer to "A recipe for disharmony" (May 27) where it was reported that Nominated Member of Parliament Thio Li-Ann warned in Parliament against militant secularism and argued that secular fundamentalists are oppressive where they seek to mute religiously-informed convictions.

Given the religiosity of our society, it is understandable that people will be motivated by their religious values to act in public life, and public debates should never shy away from discussing issues regarding religion especially when it concerns the welfare of its citizens.

In that sense, I agree that religion does have its place in public life and politics.

However, some religious views are not entirely rational, logical, or based on scientific facts. Yet, we must also understand that there are many people in society who believe that reason, logic and science are not sufficient to explain their religious experiences.

Furthermore, religious experiences are unique to different individuals and religious traditions, and seeking a consensus on which particular religious experience is true is an impossible task, as we learnt painfully from history.

That explains why the most appropriate way to debate publicly must still be based on a secular platform.

Therefore, even if a person injects faith-based words and religious convictions into public debate, he or she must understand that if their exclusive religious arguments cannot forge a consensus among different faiths and freethinkers in Singapore, it must be dismissed in a favour of a secular one that can reach out to a wider segment of the society.

This should not be interpreted as secularism seeking to mute religiously informed convictions in public debate. Rather, if a person insists that only his or her religious convictions are right to begin with, constructive public debate is no longer possible.

Even if all debates, religiously-motivated or not, is kept in secular terms, we must also guard against religious agendas under the disguise of secular titles and words.

It is a well known tactic of the Religious right in the US to push their religious agendas under the guise of secular names. Examples include the Discovery Institute which promotes the pseudo-science of intelligent design which is widely rejected amongst the scientific community.

If a religious argument under disguise of secular words and titles do not take into account diverse religious sensitivities, scientific facts, and the broader national interest, then it too, should be dismissed.
 

MarrickG

Alfrescian
Loyal
The real problem will start when these regilious fanatics start putting their religious belief above the country. It has happened before and it will happen again.




I, for one, is going to be really happy when Thio Li Ann bows out of parliament. Her nonsense about militant secularism conveniently did not mention about militant religious fanatics like her and her mum.

These Christians, macham like those from Cornerstone Church who hanged around Greenridge Secondary to talk to the students, should be all exposed for their fork-tongued messages.
 
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