Serious Fake doctors in S'pore from 3rd world countries, SMC will not enforce any action

[Papsmearer]

A little bird told me the following:

Singapore Medical Council has been letting in these fake and unqualified doctors for years now. Apparently in direct defiance of their own rules and regulations. In the case of the lawsuit regarding the fake Myanmar doctor who was recently acquitted of using fake documents for her medical verification, SMC should not even have let her in this country because no medicine university in Myanmar is on their list of approved schools.

Furthermore, SMC is a govt stat board, much like HDB. In any other country, a huge public outcry would have ensued if it was discovered that the govt had allowed in to practice, unqualified and substandard doctors, that jeopardize the citizen's health. My source told me that many people inside SMC were not happy with these developments. But at that time, Lee Suan Yew, Lee Hsien Loong's uncle, was the President of SMC. How then do you fight him? The doctors that elected him were all either PAP porlumpars, or doctors that are too afraid to jeopardize their own positions. Under his watch, the bulk of unqualified doctors came in. Its only recently, with Tan Ser Kiat being the President, more diligence is placed on vetting foreign doctors. But my insiders told me, even if you dare to go to MOH and complain that Freddie Lee was not doing his job, would they do anything against him? And it would be tantamount to committing career hari kiri.

Furthermore, my sources told me that MOH will not initiate any investigations into SMC, because any investigations would involve the questioning of Lee Suan Yew and that's a taboo topic. LHL would never allow his uncle to be hauled in front of a MOH investigating committee into the lapses of SMC. Therefore, everything will be covered up and buried. SMC has now quietly tightened up its admission process for FT doctors. But nothing can be done to look into the past in order not to besmirch Lee Suan Yew.

I asked my source why did it even happen in the first place. He mentioned 2 reasons. 1) Many doctors, the top 10% want to expand their practices, and they need to add doctors to their offices. Overseas unqualified doctors are the cheapest and fastest to get. That is why SMC does not have an entrance exam requirement for doctors to practice here. Just a job offer from a local office is enough. Each doctor is supposed to bring in $X in billings. And they pay them a lot less. SO, each doctor is a profit money printing machine for them. Many of the richest doctors are on the SMC elected members list. Its in their interest to earn as much as possible from each foreign doctor. 2) The PAP want to turn singapore into a larger medical tourist hub, and that requires doctors. So, the MOH turned a blind eye while SMC green lighted and fastracked shit useless FT doctors to work here.

Anyway, this is just my little bird saying. Not sure how true.

 

[Leongsam]

How reliable is your bird?

 

[shittypore]

This whole Island belongs to the Familee, in every Ministry you get a Familee member in a high ranking position, what is there to complaint.

 

[JohnTan]

Stop talking to your kuku bird!! The Lee family got their positions by meritoracy, not nepotism. You should not make baseless accusations regarding the incompetence of the esteemed Mr. Lee Suan Yew.

 

[shittypore]

Stop talking to your kuku bird!! The Lee family got their positions by meritoracy, not nepotism. You should not make baseless accusations regarding the incompetence of the esteemed Mr. Lee Suan Yew.

You re really an idiot, do you tink there are no Sinkies with higher qualification and much capable to fill their position.

 

[nayr69sg]

It has less to do with SMC than it is with MOH. SMC is like a shell company where they "separated" certains duties to the Council.

But in general MOH decides on all these. I heard that around 2010 there was a circular sent from SMC to all departments in the govt restructured hospitals stating that no dept should have more than 50% of their doctors as foreign trained doctors. You can have an idea how bad the situation was becoming.

Those foreign doctors were allowed to work and earn a wage right from the get go. But it was always with a provisional licence with conditions. There are no exams for them to qualify to start working. However they were encouraged to sit for equivalent exams eg grad dip family med, MMed in the various specialties etc to gain equivalent qualifications as the locals. If they did so then they would be allowed to practice independently with full registration.

So what you are seeing now is probably those IMGs who got in back before 2010 who have now passed their exams probably GDFM and can now work as GP in the public and private sector.

If they have indeed passed the exams by merit they should be ok actually. I personally think it might be some of the anti foreigner sentiment that shows up as bias in opinion on the foreign doctors.

Believe it or not but the Chinese patients I see in Canada believe more in their "zhong guo yi shen" than white Canadian doctors. Oh and indian and african ethnic Canadian doctors are highly discriminated against. The Chinese are very racist. I am Chinese so I heat a lot of this because they think I agree with them. It was the same in Singapore maybe a bit better with regards to Indian doctors and ang moh doctors are highly revered. But in Canada it is Chinese doctors are best.

 

[nayr69sg]

Singapore has had FTs for a very very long time even back in the early 1990s. Who built all those HDB flats and downtown skyscrapers? Roads? MRT tunnels? Bangladeshi workers. Thai workers.

It has always been a bit of an issue where language and cultural barriers between locally trained Singaporeans doctors and these FTs who could not speak English, Chinese (or Hokkien), Tamil and Malay lowered the standards of medical care for them. I remember seeing lot of bangla and thai workers go to the Orthopedics wards in Alexandra Hospital. Orthopedics is not so bad cos there are really only a few words needed. "Pain?" "Got feeling?" "More Pain?" "Pain many many?" "Finger we cut off ok?" You get the picture. (It is for another whole discussion but during on of our grand ward rounds I recall a senior consultant saying that it is pretty sad that these young workers come to Singapore, get injured, get fingers amuptated, severe limb fractures and then they get sent back to their home countries with some money and become a burden to their already struggling health care systems)

When Singapore embarked on the no holds barred importation of FTs (highly skilled/lowly skilled) this language and cultural barrier issue become bigger.

So the idea was that bringing in foreign trained doctors would help the situation. I guess it was to justify the ends.

Have a look at this article from SGH

http://www.sgh.com.sg/about-us/news...ports/Pages/china-docs-learn-local-pulse.aspx

Look at the date - 30 Sept 2011. That's 5 years ago. Where do you think those doctors who signed a 3 year contract are now? Probably passed their exams and either accepted into a specialist training program or out as independent GPs.

“In China, the patient would probably have just shouted at me, saying, ‘I want to see the senior doctor!’” said Dr Feng in fluent English.

He noted that Singaporeans are less direct than Chinese nationals in saying what is on their minds, and it is cultural differences like this that he has had to cope with in dealing with patients.

Chinese patients are very different from Singaporean chinese patients. I know this very well now because 90% of my patients are from China.

I had a discussion with eatshitndie in another thread where I told him that patients from 3rd world countries deserve doctors from 3rd world countries. You can see imagine why.

So you can bet that those foreign trained doctors actually have a big clientele of foreign patients. Whether those patients can pay though (and bargain like crazy) is another matter.

It is the same in Canada. The patients from China only want to see "Chinese doctors".

What is a "Fake" doctor really? The problem is that most patients have no idea what good medicine is.

Is good medicine having the doctor do everything you want? Telling what you want to hear?

Or is a good doctor one who does what is warranted and evidence based? Tells you the truth?

Most patients would point to the former. Patients know nuts about what good medicine is. They only want to hear what they want to hear, get told the diagnoses they think they have, and get the treatment plan that they want eg investigations, medications and referrals.

In a patient pay out of pocket system like Singapore the above is difficult because at the end of that conversation you still argue about costs. And you end up compromising. Oh I really want that ultrasound but I don't really want to pay for it. So you hope the doctor then tells you that you really don't need it. Sometimes if the doctor was strong in selling the ultrasound so well that you were convinced you needed the ultrasound and then he flip flops when you cannot pay then you say this doctor is not trustworthy. But if you encountered a doctor who said no need ultrasound in the first place you would say the doctor is hopeless. Medicine is a lot about reading people's minds and figuring out what they want.

Anyway, in the long run, a Singapore that is more and more successful would attract more immigrants. and the entire above will continue to repeat itself. A Singapore that does not attract immigrants anymore means that serious problems have affected Singapore. There is no win.

Get out if you can.

 

[scroobal]

It was indeed under Dr Lee Suan Yew and SMC that these short sighted policies are introduced. There was actually genuine fear that there would be an oversupply of doctors as many new doctors who set up practices in HDB neighbourhoods had to close down. SMC was very influential during that period. However MOH failed to in carrying out the appropriate research such as longitudinal studies to work out demand and supply. It was only in 1998 someone woke up to find out the ministries were not talking. They made immediate changes to accept foreign trained doctors but very selective in terms of quality. But it was too late. I believe in 2003, they then released the list of universities whose qualifications were accepted. GCT's population expansion which was kept very quiet in the mid 90s did not help and showed that the ministries were not taking. Remember Singaporeans were shocked to find out that they pop jumped form 2.3 to over 5m. when it appeared in the press.

The Law society also had a similar role but after Francis Seow's and the committees bitter fight with old man, it was largely ignored.

 

[scroobal]

The issue has never been FT per se. There will be gaps both in specialist talent and labour that has to be filled by foreigners every now and then. Most countries have it and after the demise of Communism nearly all have it. That is not the issue.

Those who talk about Singaporean families becoming distraught if there are no maids are rather simplistic in their analysis. We have had maids for nearly 20 over years before FT policies became an issue. I do agree that some families engage maids when they have no means to do so or there is simply no need to do so and again it down to poor policies and enforcement.

The issue is the mismanagement of policies when it comes to admission of foreigners for employment is the crux of the matter. Here are the main issues;
1. Displacement of locals for cheaper foreign workers leading to loss of job and income. Tell me a country that allows it.
2. Rushing to meet unexpected demand by reducing the qualification thresholds due to poor planning.
3. Poor or lack of appropriate vetting of qualifications across the board.

Comments that Singaporeans are the problem, complain a lot, do not know how to complain, they deserve what they get etc is does not help any discussion nor does it address the issue. Singaporeans are no different to people around the world. Like anyone else many will not accept comparatively lower standards when they clearly know what good looks like and had it in the past. There has been 1 death attributed to a Filipino doctor, and one death attributed to PRC with a Myanmar qualification, one court case involving a Myanmar doctor. People are concerned with due diligence and vetting. I am sure the Canadians would feel exactly the same like Singaporeans if they were to see similar FT policies implemented in Canada.

The issue is the Govt and its hold on power which has led to these policies. We welcome foreigners who complement us and contribute to the country. No different to citizens of other countries. They can be IT engineers, doctors, lawyers etc but they need to be adequately qualified and fill a gap that locals can't. Just like any other country.

Singapore has had FTs for a very very long time even back in the early 1990s. Who built all those HDB flats and downtown skyscrapers? Roads? MRT tunnels? Bangladeshi workers. Thai workers.

It has always been a bit of an issue where language and cultural barriers between locally trained Singaporeans doctors and these FTs who could not speak English, Chinese (or Hokkien), Tamil and Malay lowered the standards of medical care for them. I remember seeing lot of bangla and thai workers go to the Orthopedics wards in Alexandra Hospital. Orthopedics is not so bad cos there are really only a few words needed. "Pain?" "Got feeling?" "More Pain?" "Pain many many?" "Finger we cut off ok?" You get the picture. (It is for another whole discussion but during on of our grand ward rounds I recall a senior consultant saying that it is pretty sad that these young workers come to Singapore, get injured, get fingers amuptated, severe limb fractures and then they get sent back to their home countries with some money and become a burden to their already struggling health care systems)

When Singapore embarked on the no holds barred importation of FTs (highly skilled/lowly skilled) this language and cultural barrier issue become bigger.

So the idea was that bringing in foreign trained doctors would help the situation. I guess it was to justify the ends.

Have a look at this article from SGH

http://www.sgh.com.sg/about-us/news...ports/Pages/china-docs-learn-local-pulse.aspx

Look at the date - 30 Sept 2011. That's 5 years ago. Where do you think those doctors who signed a 3 year contract are now? Probably passed their exams and either accepted into a specialist training program or out as independent GPs.

“In China, the patient would probably have just shouted at me, saying, ‘I want to see the senior doctor!’” said Dr Feng in fluent English.

He noted that Singaporeans are less direct than Chinese nationals in saying what is on their minds, and it is cultural differences like this that he has had to cope with in dealing with patients.

Chinese patients are very different from Singaporean chinese patients. I know this very well now because 90% of my patients are from China.

I had a discussion with eatshitndie in another thread where I told him that patients from 3rd world countries deserve doctors from 3rd world countries. You can see imagine why.

So you can bet that those foreign trained doctors actually have a big clientele of foreign patients. Whether those patients can pay though (and bargain like crazy) is another matter.

It is the same in Canada. The patients from China only want to see "Chinese doctors".

What is a "Fake" doctor really? The problem is that most patients have no idea what good medicine is.

Is good medicine having the doctor do everything you want? Telling what you want to hear?

Or is a good doctor one who does what is warranted and evidence based? Tells you the truth?

Most patients would point to the former. Patients know nuts about what good medicine is. They only want to hear what they want to hear, get told the diagnoses they think they have, and get the treatment plan that they want eg investigations, medications and referrals.

In a patient pay out of pocket system like Singapore the above is difficult because at the end of that conversation you still argue about costs. And you end up compromising. Oh I really want that ultrasound but I don't really want to pay for it. So you hope the doctor then tells you that you really don't need it. Sometimes if the doctor was strong in selling the ultrasound so well that you were convinced you needed the ultrasound and then he flip flops when you cannot pay then you say this doctor is not trustworthy. But if you encountered a doctor who said no need ultrasound in the first place you would say the doctor is hopeless. Medicine is a lot about reading people's minds and figuring out what they want.

Anyway, in the long run, a Singapore that is more and more successful would attract more immigrants. and the entire above will continue to repeat itself. A Singapore that does not attract immigrants anymore means that serious problems have affected Singapore. There is no win.

Get out if you can.

 

[FangSinGuek]

A little bird told me the following:

Singapore Medical Council has been letting in these fake and unqualified doctors for years now. Apparently in direct defiance of their own rules and regulations. In the case of the lawsuit regarding the fake Myanmar doctor who was recently acquitted of using fake documents for her medical verification, SMC should not even have let her in this country because no medicine university in Myanmar is on their list of approved schools.

Furthermore, SMC is a govt stat board, much like HDB. In any other country, a huge public outcry would have ensued if it was discovered that the govt had allowed in to practice, unqualified and substandard doctors, that jeopardize the citizen's health. My source told me that many people inside SMC were not happy with these developments. But at that time, Lee Suan Yew, Lee Hsien Loong's uncle, was the President of SMC. How then do you fight him? The doctors that elected him were all either PAP porlumpars, or doctors that are too afraid to jeopardize their own positions. Under his watch, the bulk of unqualified doctors came in. Its only recently, with Tan Ser Kiat being the President, more diligence is placed on vetting foreign doctors. But my insiders told me, even if you dare to go to MOH and complain that Freddie Lee was not doing his job, would they do anything against him? And it would be tantamount to committing career hari kiri.

Furthermore, my sources told me that MOH will not initiate any investigations into SMC, because any investigations would involve the questioning of Lee Suan Yew and that's a taboo topic. LHL would never allow his uncle to be hauled in front of a MOH investigating committee into the lapses of SMC. Therefore, everything will be covered up and buried. SMC has now quietly tightened up its admission process for FT doctors. But nothing can be done to look into the past in order not to besmirch Lee Suan Yew.

I asked my source why did it even happen in the first place. He mentioned 2 reasons. 1) Many doctors, the top 10% want to expand their practices, and they need to add doctors to their offices. Overseas unqualified doctors are the cheapest and fastest to get. That is why SMC does not have an entrance exam requirement for doctors to practice here. Just a job offer from a local office is enough. Each doctor is supposed to bring in $X in billings. And they pay them a lot less. SO, each doctor is a profit money printing machine for them. Many of the richest doctors are on the SMC elected members list. Its in their interest to earn as much as possible from each foreign doctor. 2) The PAP want to turn singapore into a larger medical tourist hub, and that requires doctors. So, the MOH turned a blind eye while SMC green lighted and fastracked shit useless FT doctors to work here.

Anyway, this is just my little bird saying. Not sure how true.

datz a terrible can of Mongolian killer worms..............

 

[Drath]

datz a terrible can of Mongolian killer worms..............

That's a terrible can of number one shameless Malaysian mistress mandy lieu can of worms.....................

 

[Papsmearer]

How reliable is your bird?

Seems like scroobal is confirming some of it further down this thread. But like I said, its not me, but my source.

 

[Papsmearer]

It has less to do with SMC than it is with MOH. SMC is like a shell company where they "separated" certains duties to the Council.

But in general MOH decides on all these. I heard that around 2010 there was a circular sent from SMC to all departments in the govt restructured hospitals stating that no dept should have more than 50% of their doctors as foreign trained doctors. You can have an idea how bad the situation was becoming.

Those foreign doctors were allowed to work and earn a wage right from the get go. But it was always with a provisional licence with conditions. There are no exams for them to qualify to start working. However they were encouraged to sit for equivalent exams eg grad dip family med, MMed in the various specialties etc to gain equivalent qualifications as the locals. If they did so then they would be allowed to practice independently with full registration.

So what you are seeing now is probably those IMGs who got in back before 2010 who have now passed their exams probably GDFM and can now work as GP in the public and private sector.

If they have indeed passed the exams by merit they should be ok actually. I personally think it might be some of the anti foreigner sentiment that shows up as bias in opinion on the foreign doctors.

Believe it or not but the Chinese patients I see in Canada believe more in their "zhong guo yi shen" than white Canadian doctors. Oh and indian and african ethnic Canadian doctors are highly discriminated against. The Chinese are very racist. I am Chinese so I heat a lot of this because they think I agree with them. It was the same in Singapore maybe a bit better with regards to Indian doctors and ang moh doctors are highly revered. But in Canada it is Chinese doctors are best.

Yes, I understand the theory on this, that the SMC is more functionary then an actual licensing body. And that MOH holds all the power. What I am saying is that how can they even be granted a provisional license to these 3rd world doctors to practice here when their unis that they graduated from don't even meet the SMC standards? If the unis that these 3rd world countries graduate from are not on the SMC approved list, then should not the foreign doctors at least sit for a board exam to determine their ability to practice? None of this happened. The bottom line is this. MOH has delegated the licensing of doctors to the SMC. Yes, MOH has some criteria that it wants SMC to follow to grant these licenses, provisional or otherwise. In normal circumstances, if SMC fails in its responsibility, then MOH puts pressure on it or arranges to remove the president and board members. now ask yourself, who at MOH has the balls to do it knowing the President of SMC is the Prime Minister's uncle and the brother of Lee Kuan Yew? The tail is wagging the dog. MOH has in other words, lost complete control over who can practice medicine in Singapore. Its different now that Lee Suan Yew is not there anymore. But this is the bottom line as I see it.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Nothing wrong with all this,this is perfectly in line and compliant with PAP's cheaper better faster policy.if u trust ur life to a $1200 tiong bus driver,why not a$3000 Myanmar doctor?

 

[scroobal]

Your source is right. SMC even began advising not only MOH but the Educational Ministry as well. They were the ones that recommended the pre-entry vocational training which is highly subjective and conducted by doctors who obviously knew whose sons and daughters they were assessing.

In the mid 90s, NUH had introduced the Executive Health Check Programme and many from the diplomatic corp and MNCS began sending their senior executives. It was highly rated as it began with Assoc Profs conducting the examination. From that, medical tourism was mooted and the private sector doctors wanted the pie. These doctors if they served high valued foreigners there were not enough doctors to serve locals and thats when the flood gates open. And we ended up with Doctors whose initial qualifications were not in the recognised list began looking after the heartlanders in polyclinics.

For instance its well known fact that our PAP doctor who lost to the young lady in Punggol East handled only foreigners in his case Indonesians. There would be the odd local referred by his friends.

Seems like scroobal is confirming some of it further down this thread. But like I said, its not me, but my source.

 

[songsongjurong]

could be junta related..you know Pap lah...cases like this,someone knows someone

 

[virus]

could be junta related..you know Pap lah...cases like this,someone knows someone

Pls lor. You r talking abt smc support myanmar council. Take what action? Make him chief surgeon?

 

[LukaModric]

Stop talking to your kuku bird!! The Lee family got their positions by meritoracy, not nepotism. You should not make baseless accusations regarding the incompetence of the esteemed Mr. Lee Suan Yew.

Huh? What? Sure..

 

[Hans168]

Pls lor. You r talking abt smc support myanmar council. Take what action? Make him chief surgeon?

Do you know that in Singtel there is a job title......... Group Chief Human Resource Officer?????????? Huat Ah!!!
Simple personnel mgr when stayed long enuf becomes GCHRO..........!!! Same job but pay 10 fold more

 

[Papsmearer]

could be junta related..you know Pap lah...cases like this,someone knows someone

Its definitely one military Junta scratch the other military junta's back. In this case, the Burma military Junta receiving favour from the sinkie military junta.