Creative accounting at HDB

[makapaaa]

<TABLE id=msgUN border=0 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD id=msgUNsubj vAlign=top>Nice way of saying they earned $2B less than they should if they had not given the 'market subsidies'?

Coffeeshop Chit Chat - Creative accounting at HDB
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Subscribe </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>oscar676 <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>Nov-2 7:30 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>ALL <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right>(1 of 22) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"></TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>23704.1 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>HDB declared that they lost $20billion last financial year.
Goes to show how important a good accountant is.
He will ask you, "How much do you want to declare as your losses?"

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[makapaaa]

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>23704.10 in reply to 23704.8 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=789><TBODY><TR><TD height=26 colSpan=3></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=5></TD><TD vAlign=top width=784 colSpan=2>HDB suffers S$2b deficit
By Joanne Chan, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 02 November 2009 1743 hrs
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SINGAPORE: The Housing and Development Board (HDB) has reported a S$2 billion deficit before government grants in its latest annual report. The figure is more than double the loss reported in the previous financial year.

HDB said the huge deficit for the financial year ending March was due mainly to more flats being sold. These flats are highly subsidised by the government.
Still talking about subsidy, when they cannot show the break down of cost.

Higher construction costs also led to the large deficit. Other reasons that contributed to HDB's loss included upgrading works for lifts and rental flats.

Between April last year and March this year, HDB pushed out 8,000 flats under its Build-To-Order Scheme. That was 2,000 more than what it supplied the year before.

At a media briefing on its latest annual report, HDB also gave an update on the Lease Buyback Scheme which allows low-income elderly Singaporeans to get a portion of cash upfront while HDB buys back the tail-end of the lease of their flat.

HDB has received more than 400 applications since the scheme was launched earlier this year. Some 25,000 households are eligible for the scheme, but the elderly have other options to monetise their flats.

HDB's CEO, Tay Kim Poh, said: "Some of them will sublet their entire flat, and the rental for even a three-room flat is very good nowadays. They can easily get S$1,500 per month from the rental and they (then) move in to stay with their children."

Despite the global downturn, HDB said the mortgage arrears rate has dropped 0.4 percentage point to 7.5 per cent.

Market watchers said this may be due to the high resale prices of HDB flats.

Eugene Lim, associate director of ERA Asia Pacific, said: "There was an upswing in the market since the beginning of this year. And what happens is that those households in arrears probably made use of this opportunity to sell their flat and downgrade to a flat that they can afford."

Moving forward, HDB said it will focus on improving community relations. A new department has been set up within the housing board to look at strengthening social cohesion and integrating newcomers.

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[makapaaa]

<TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>pJUDGE2009 <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>Nov-2 8:35 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>newyorker88 <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right>(11 of 23) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"></TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>23704.11 in reply to 23704.10 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>This so-called "loss" is not real loss.
This "loss" is the amount of money they would have made IF they had sold the flats in the Open Market at market price, using transaction prices in the open market as a benchmark, including prices of condos in the surrounding areas.
But all the costs of building the flats, the land, the environment, and so on associated with the planning and development of these flats including the cost of operating HDB, are fully covered and recovered.
And it's still probable that they did make a profit out of all these flats sold, just not the FULL profits.
They want us to think of them as generous, caring, "good government" that "subsidise" the flats, but they're in reality whining about not be able to rake in the potential profits and that peasants should go down on their knees to thank them for their benevolence.


<HR SIZE=1>Edited 11/2/2009 11:38 pm ET by pJUDGE2009</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[jim007jimmyboy]

<TABLE class=msgtable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="96%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=msg vAlign=top><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgbfr1 width="1%"></TD><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgF width="1%" noWrap align=right>From: </TD><TD class=msgFname width="68%" noWrap>pJUDGE2009 <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgDate width="30%" noWrap align=right>Nov-2 8:35 pm </TD></TR><TR class=msghead><TD class=msgT height=20 width="1%" noWrap align=right>To: </TD><TD class=msgTname width="68%" noWrap>newyorker88 <NOBR></NOBR></TD><TD class=msgNum noWrap align=right>(11 of 23) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgleft rowSpan=4 width="1%"></TD><TD class=wintiny noWrap align=right>23704.11 in reply to 23704.10 </TD></TR><TR><TD height=8></TD></TR><TR><TD class=msgtxt>This so-called "loss" is not real loss.

They want us to think of them as generous, caring, "good government" that "subsidise" the flats, but they're in reality whining about not be able to rake in the potential profits and that peasants should go down on their knees to thank them for their benevolence.


<HR SIZE=1>Edited 11/2/2009 11:38 pm ET by pJUDGE2009</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

FUCK PAP


I knew it when i saw the headlines...knn HDB is so profitable how possible got deficit?

Think we are sinkies are all stupid!

:oIo::oIo:

 

[longbow]

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10221p.nsf/0/d4a0f107613b79944825766200236310/$FILE/Financial%20Report%202009.pdf

1) Accounts ARE audited by Big 4

2) Can finance types assist? Seems like they made a $65 Million profit last year.
2008/09 2007/08
Sale proceeds 1,217,772 2,621,710
Cost of sales (1,151,876) (2,517,738)
Gross profit 65,896 103,972

3)Much of the "losses" mentioned in the ST article are called: Foreseeable Loss (defination from Annual Report). Forumners seem to be correct. They lost money because they take into account avg property price of the location minus selling price of HDB flat.

Foreseeable Losses relating to Properties under Development
Estimated selling price of the location, design and the estimated contract sum of the project are used to determine
the foreseeable loss relating to properties under development.
The carrying amount of properties under development is disclosed in Note 13 to the financial statements.

Development of flats for sale is expected to incur a loss on sale. Provision for foreseeable loss is determined
as the difference between estimated development costs and net realisable value, and charged to operating
expenses in the income and expenditure statement. The provision is reclassified to provision for unrealised loss
of the properties for sale on completion and realised when the flat is sold.

4) I think from accounting point of view HDB is correct they are selling flats at a loss to free market value. But must also factor in sale restrictions for new flats.

 

[longbow]

Flats completed in:


2006 2733 units
2007 5063 units
2008 3154 units Manpower cost (07/08) $443M or $87K per flat
2009 No Info Manpower Cost (08/09) $430M

 

[Watchman]

These loss are if they are sold to FTs instead of peasants ?

 

[longbow]

1) HDB made $65M from selling their flats. So no need to breakdown construction cost etc etc. HDB makes money from each flat they sell.

2) HDB has a pretty high manpower cost. Despite having a very high manpower cost of $430M (staff of close to 5K) a year or $87K per flat sold. So HDB makes $$ from selling their flats. To be fair some of this staff help run the carpark/HDB shop rental business.

3) They have 4755 staff at $430M or $90.5K per staff.


4) They have this "account for foreseeable loss" which is market value of flats in the area minus what they sold the flat to you for. Not the huge increase 2008 to 2009. Part of that is due to more flats sold but part of that is due to prices of property in the surrounding area.


Provision for foreseeable loss/unrealised loss for properties under development/for sale:

2008/2009 2007/2008
1,236,944 783,757

5) HDB is transparent! All the info is there and audited. HDB does not make that much money from the development and sale of flats. I suspect that they pay market rates for the land. Most of the $$ is probably in the land office. It is all a matter of how they spin the info. Cup half full or empty.

 

[scoobyhoo]

why not fire the ceo and get me to be the ceo? i can accept half of his pay, and gain billions dollars in a year time.