• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

China: Why the stimulus packages might still not work

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
China: Why the stimulus packages might still not work - Victor Shih


While some might see some positive economic signs in China, assistant-professor Victor Shih sticks to his gun and does not see a real recovery. In his weblog he points at all those important signals that are still not well and not encouraged by the 5 trillion renminbi stimulus package:

1. First of all, export and FDI continue to fall at a pretty fast pace, which can't be helped.

2. More alarming, inventory for many industrial goods continue to build UP! According to a recent note by Stephen Green's team, refined oil inventory is up over 35% YoY as of the end of February.

3. Coal inventory seems to have gone down, but that's because many coal mines have ceased to operate. The 21st Century Business Herald reported that 50-70% of mines are "resting" for the moment. Iron ore mines are facing the same problem as international iron ore now costs less than domestic ore.

4. Electricity usage continues to be in negative territory.

http://www.chinaherald.net/2009/04/why-stimulus-packages-might-still-not.html


Stimulus only positive for headlines
- Victor Shih

China boast about its US$ 588 billion stimulus package at the G20, but assistant professor Victor Shih has very serious misgivings about the effects of the package, he writes in the Wall Street Journal . It might create positive headline numbers but has no effect on employment and private consumption.

More than three-quarters of the stimulus package will be spent on construction, including transportation infrastructure, earthquake reconstruction, welfare housing and rural infrastructure. Much of the money spent on earthquake reconstruction may prove productive, assuming local officials don't allocate the money to pet projects. After more than a decade of intensive infrastructure building elsewhere in China, however, it is dubious that additional construction on such a massive scale can generate economic returns beyond boosting short-term employment for a few months.

Most of the capital is not coming from the central government, Shih warns, but from Chinese banks and an additional US$ 3 trillion in local projects might have serious problems in getting funding to start with. Local government might just not be interested in handing out land for almost no compensation. Shih: "Local governments do not want to "waste" this land on public projects, especially when the central government has set a strict limit on the amount of farmland that can be developed."

The stimulus is thus legless: It looks impressive at the top, full of grandiose plans and ample financing from state banks, but lacks a solid foundation. The epic scale of central expenditure and state bank lending will generate some positive investment and GDP figures. Its impact at the grassroots level, however, is dubious. Beyond the short-term boost in employment and relatively small sums spent on social welfare and health, ordinary Chinese will see few benefits, limiting their capacity to spend in the midst of the global demand slump.
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
All stimulus plans are just basically throwing money into to system and hoping that it will work. Just look at US stimulus plan - pretty much same thing. A bunch of infra projects and bailing out failing companies like GM and banks , incentive to scarp cars to buy a new one.

This is no different than the Chinese dumping money into infra projects which they really need. Only differecne is that Chinese banks are strong as reflected in the stock prices and none of the large Chinese companies are going belly up like the Americans.

Anyway the person that wrote the article is an assistant professor in political science at Northwestern U. He is not an economist so what does he know. Not to say that economists know much.

Economic stimulus is at best an art. No one really knows what will happen. The main idea behind it is to dump money into the financial system and hope that the multiplier effect multiply that stimulus amount. You could build infra, write checks to citizens (Bernenke dropping money from a helicopter), build a bridge to nowhere.

I suggests that for a better read on the Chinese or US stimulus plan look at reports from Goldman Sachs and the likes. At least they do have people that know a little more. BTW how in the world did you manage to find this joker?

Your posting on Krugman's Chinese US$ addiction was much better. At least it is Krugman.
 

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
The facts mentioned are data..and those data will be the same whether it is Krugman or Shih.

It all depends on who interprets the data and write the analysis.

Krugman, Shih or maybe any other academic.
 

2lanu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Basically the leaders are trying to spin up their respective economies. But I dun understand why China want to invest so much globally rather than putting these money develope the own economy. :rolleyes:
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Anyway the person that wrote the article is an assistant professor in political science at Northwestern U. He is not an economist so what does he know. Not to say that economists know much.

I would discount most that he says in his Apr 23 article.

Example
3. Coal inventory seems to have gone down, but that's because many coal mines have ceased to operate. The 21st Century Business Herald reported that 50-70% of mines are "resting" for the moment.

Read this http://www.fxstreet.com/news/forex-news/article.aspx?StoryId=5b2a89dd-c17a-425b-952e-98d7289d2c9e

Wed, May 13 2009, 02:27 GMT
BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China produced 230 million metric tons of coal in April, up 7.9% from the same month last year, the National Bureau of Statistics said Wednesday.
Coal output in the January-April period totaled 828 million tons, up 6.8% compared with the previous year, the data showed.

So how can production output goes up, when many coal mines have ceased to operate (that 50-70% mines are resting)?


Also read this http://www.fxstreet.com/news/forex-news/article.aspx?StoryId=9cca72a9-8c1e-44eb-8cc8-06d9c7a59055

Coal Data: Table Of China's Coal Imports, Exports For March
Wed, Apr 22 2009, 05:04 GMT

China's Coal Import data for March:
Countries Mar Change Jan-Mar Change
of Origin in Tons on Year in Tons on Year
Total 5,720,796 37.44% 13,590,987 21.13%

China's Coal Export data for March:
Countries Mar Change Jan-Mar Change
in Tons on Year in Tons on Year
Total 2,268,853 +57% 7,376,761 -27.65%

Why was there an increase in net import of coal?

In general, (over the first 3-4 months of this year)
He says Inventory = down because "expected production" = down.
Reports say actual production = up , and net import = up.

He must be missing something. :biggrin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top