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China: Caught in a dollar trap

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
" Two years ago, we lived in a world in which China could save much more than it invested and dispose of the excess savings in America. That world is gone. "


China's dollar trap

By PAUL KRUGMAN
NY Times

Back in the early stages of the financial crisis, wags joked that our trade with China had turned out to be fair and balanced after all: They sold us poison toys and tainted seafood; we sold them fraudulent securities.

But these days, both sides of that deal are breaking down. On one side, the world’s appetite for Chinese goods has fallen off sharply. China’s exports have plunged in recent months and are now down 26 percent from a year ago. On the other side, the Chinese are evidently getting anxious about those securities.

But China still seems to have unrealistic expectations. And that’s a problem for all of us.

The big news last week was a speech by Zhou Xiaochuan, the governor of China’s central bank, calling for a new “super-sovereign reserve currency.”

The paranoid wing of the Republican Party promptly warned of a dastardly plot to make America give up the dollar. But Mr. Zhou’s speech was actually an admission of weakness. In effect, he was saying that China had driven itself into a dollar trap, and that it can neither get itself out nor change the policies that put it in that trap in the first place.

Was there a deep strategy behind this vast accumulation of low-yielding assets? Probably not. China acquired its $2 trillion stash — turning the People’s Republic into the T-bills Republic — the same way Britain acquired its empire: in a fit of absence of mind.

And just the other day, it seems, China’s leaders woke up and realized that they had a problem.

So what Mr. Zhou’s proposal actually amounts to is a plea that someone rescue China from the consequences of its own investment mistakes. That’s not going to happen.

And the call for some magical solution to the problem of China’s excess of dollars suggests something else: that China’s leaders haven’t come to grips with the fact that the rules of the game have changed in a fundamental way.

Two years ago, we lived in a world in which China could save much more than it invested and dispose of the excess savings in America. That world is gone.
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
chinaman are dumb, what are there used for 2 trillions of paper money, when you go to US banks to exchange for something useful , you get 2 trillions of paper money.

basically you have just paper.

50 years ago, you can exchange to gold.

now, paper. so gathering so much paper is basically useless, all USA have to do is devalue it or pass law to ban china from using it in USA.
 

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes, you are right.
Now china has lost more than half its savings and
there is no other market or country in the world
that can absorb its savings, in case it want to shift
their dollar holdings to another location outside USA.

BTW- I wrote about this matter, about two years ago when I posted
on a thread, " Who wants a trillion dollars"..in this same forum.
hehehe.
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
borrow money to someone who have enough nukes to vaporise china is a bad idea, if he dun pay, what are you going to do? i have an idea for chinese gov. he can stack a wag of US dollars and go to KTV , give the waitress to have sex with you.
 

chingchong

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Loyal
borrow money to someone who have enough nukes to vaporise china is a bad idea, if he dun pay, what are you going to do? i have an idea for chinese gov. he can stack a wag of US dollars and go to KTV , give the waitress to have sex with you.
You are right. Nuclear arms in the debtor's hands dissuades the chinks from vandalizing the Statue of Liberty with red-painted O$P$.
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You are right. Nuclear arms in the debtor's hands dissuades the chinks from vandalizing the Statue of Liberty with red-painted O$P$.

oh the problem is not they do not pay
the problem the one who own money
is the one who actually print money too


can you imagine you lend money to the one who is doing the printing money too
and he said 1 paper us dollar in bank equal to another 1 paper us dollar.
he can run his printing press all night long
and gave you the paper money back
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Isn't it better for a country to have huge reserves than be a country that do not have such reserves. I would rather be the wealthy guy that worries about gout and high blood pressure than someone who has insufficent food and is dying from starvation.

At least the country has the funds to dump $700B into its economy to stimulate its economy. And much more $ where it came from. So far its banks has not suffered much from the economic crisis pretty much because of this huge reserve. And Chinese banks shares have remained strong.

Just like how they used to discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, much of this discussion of Chinese holdings in US Treasury is academic because of:

US is still most financially secure large country with a AAA rating (Go see UK's rating). And US$ is a better bet than the Euro (I have read about german banks' exposure to billions in loan to Eastern European countries that would make US subprime look AAA bonds).

During the recent crisis in December US Treasury yields dropped to below 1% as the whole world tried to park their money in US Treasuries.

Chinese/US economy is so tightly entwined

Having a huge load of US Treasury also means political clout. Witness Clinton's recent visit to Beijing where there was no mention of Tibet and instead numerous assurances to the Chinese on US financial health.

And should the US goes down, so will the rest of the world. Anyway at the rate that the Chinese are building their reserves, they could lose 50 percent of the value of their reserves and still have over a Trillion left.

Krugman should publish an article on the world being caught in a dollar trap.

Why should oil be priced in $
Why should US $ be the reserve currency
Why should all risk instruments use US Treasuries as a baseline.
Why??
 

cass888

Alfrescian
Loyal
You are right. Except now with your gout and high blood pressure, you now regret not eating more vegetables (Euros maybe) or vitamins (gold).

Isn't it better for a country to have huge reserves than be a country that do not have such reserves. I would rather be the wealthy guy that worries about gout and high blood pressure than someone who has insufficent food and is dying from starvation.

At least the country has the funds to dump $700B into its economy to stimulate its economy. And much more $ where it came from. So far its banks has not suffered much from the economic crisis pretty much because of this huge reserve. And Chinese banks shares have remained strong.

Just like how they used to discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, much of this discussion of Chinese holdings in US Treasury is academic because of:

US is still most financially secure large country with a AAA rating (Go see UK's rating). And US$ is a better bet than the Euro (I have read about german banks' exposure to billions in loan to Eastern European countries that would make US subprime look AAA bonds).

During the recent crisis in December US Treasury yields dropped to below 1% as the whole world tried to park their money in US Treasuries.

Chinese/US economy is so tightly entwined

Having a huge load of US Treasury also means political clout. Witness Clinton's recent visit to Beijing where there was no mention of Tibet and instead numerous assurances to the Chinese on US financial health.

And should the US goes down, so will the rest of the world. Anyway at the rate that the Chinese are building their reserves, they could lose 50 percent of the value of their reserves and still have over a Trillion left.

Krugman should publish an article on the world being caught in a dollar trap.

Why should oil be priced in $
Why should US $ be the reserve currency
Why should all risk instruments use US Treasuries as a baseline.
Why??
 
Z

Zombie

Guest
Why should oil be priced in $
Why should US $ be the reserve currency
Why should all risk instruments use US Treasuries as a baseline.
Why??

Soon, you will get words like true democracy, system of independent jurisdiction, fair and just law, safe haven for your money, free-market economy, fair competition, bla-bla-bla, bla-bla-bla........ :biggrin:
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Euro - EU is in much worse shape than US. UK debt rating just got dowgraded while US is stil AAA. The Eu countries do not have a coordinated action plan for the crisis. Germany does not want to bail the poorer EU members. It is a mess.

Gold - there is not enough gold in this world for China. Just go try and see if you can buy US1 Trillion in gold!

You are right. Except now with your gout and high blood pressure, you now regret not eating more vegetables (Euros maybe) or vitamins (gold).
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Do not care about that. Just talking about world financial system lah.

Biggest sign was in Dec 2008 when world economy was in meltdown, US Treasury was under 1%. Probably everyone was parking their cash in Treasuries - why??



Soon, you will get words like true democracy, system of independent jurisdiction, fair and just law, safe haven for your money, free-market economy, fair competition, bla-bla-bla, bla-bla-bla........ :biggrin:
 

cass888

Alfrescian
Loyal
UK is not on the Euro.

Euro - EU is in much worse shape than US. UK debt rating just got dowgraded while US is stil AAA. The Eu countries do not have a coordinated action plan for the crisis. Germany does not want to bail the poorer EU members. It is a mess.

Gold - there is not enough gold in this world for China. Just go try and see if you can buy US1 Trillion in gold!
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Euro - EU is in much worse shape than US. UK debt rating just got dowgraded while US is stil AAA. The Eu countries do not have a coordinated action plan for the crisis. Germany does not want to bail the poorer EU members. It is a mess.

Gold - there is not enough gold in this world for China. Just go try and see if you can buy US1 Trillion in gold!

the other guy is right UK is using sterling pound, not EURO.

for the name longbow, which was UK super weapon 1000 yrs ago, you do not know the currency of England/Wales/Scotland/NI?
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am aware of that.

But please read EU's dealing with the crisis. Just remember there is no Union. There is no concerted effort. You have stronger nations like Germany and France vs weaker nations like Portugal, Spain, Latvia, Poland. Even the strong nations cannot agree with each other and each country has its own central bank. Total mess. Euro is not as strong as US$ hence Treasury return of 1% during crisis.

UK is not on the Euro.
 

longbow

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Loyal
I am aware of it. I was referring to weakness of Euro WITHOUT a strong member of the EU (UK) in it. In short you basically have Germany and France trying to backstop economies of Latvia, Poland, Portugual, Greece.

Now given the size of UK economy, having it in the economic union might help somewhat although in these days economically the whole EU is basket case.

Do not forget that Germany is the world's largest exporter. And they export premium items compared to China. I think there are less takers of expensive Porsches, top grade factory tooling for leather etc etc versus daily use items like clothing, shoes etc. SO Germany itself is much weaker.
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Who really knows.

UK did not go with the Euro because it wanted want freedom on how to set its monetary policy. This is precisely why I think the Euro is not a strong currency (not talking about strength of Euro in good times) during economic crisis.

How can one effectively use monetary policy to suit such a wide disparity of economies.

The Germans with lots of resources might prefer a strong interest rate to keep inflation low however Poland might want low interest rates to kick start the economy. Then you have Sweden and Finland with their high tax rates but generous social services.


so which way will the sterling pounds go? look low at the moment, good time to keep some now?
 
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