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China - bubble and its future

longbow

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This is no biased epochtimes (Falunggong) article. It is from New York Times.




January 13, 2010
Op-Ed Columnist
Is China the Next Enron?
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Taipei, Taiwan

Reading The Herald Tribune over breakfast in Hong Kong harbor last week, my eye went to the front-page story about how James Chanos — reportedly one of America’s most successful short-sellers, the man who bet that Enron was a fraud and made a fortune when that proved true and its stock collapsed — is now warning that China is “Dubai times 1,000 — or worse” and looking for ways to short that country’s economy before its bubbles burst.

China’s markets may be full of bubbles ripe for a short-seller, and if Mr. Chanos can find a way to make money shorting them, God bless him. But after visiting Hong Kong and Taiwan this past week and talking to many people who work and invest their own money in China, I’d offer Mr. Chanos two notes of caution.

First, a simple rule of investing that has always served me well: Never short a country with $2 trillion in foreign currency reserves.

Second, it is easy to look at China today and see its enormous problems and things that it is not getting right. For instance, low interest rates, easy credit, an undervalued currency and hot money flowing in from abroad have led to what the Chinese government Sunday called “excessively rising house prices” in major cities, or what some might call a speculative bubble ripe for the shorting. In the last few days, though, China’s central bank has started edging up interest rates and raising the proportion of deposits that banks must set aside as reserves — precisely to head off inflation and take some air out of any asset bubbles.

And that’s the point. I am reluctant to sell China short, not because I think it has no problems or corruption or bubbles, but because I think it has all those problems in spades — and some will blow up along the way (the most dangerous being pollution). But it also has a political class focused on addressing its real problems, as well as a mountain of savings with which to do so (unlike us).

And here is the other thing to keep in mind. Think about all the hype, all the words, that have been written about China’s economic development since 1979. It’s a lot, right? What if I told you this: “It may be that we haven’t seen anything yet.”

Why do I say that? All the long-term investments that China has made over the last two decades are just blossoming and could really propel the Chinese economy into the 21st-century knowledge age, starting with its massive investment in infrastructure. Ten years ago, China had a lot bridges and roads to nowhere. Well, many of them are now connected. It is also on a crash program of building subways in major cities and high-speed trains to interconnect them. China also now has 400 million Internet users, and 200 million of them have broadband. Check into a motel in any major city and you’ll have broadband access. America has about 80 million broadband users.

Now take all this infrastructure and mix it together with 27 million students in technical colleges and universities — the most in the world. With just the normal distribution of brains, that’s going to bring a lot of brainpower to the market, or, as Bill Gates once said to me: “In China, when you’re one-in-a-million, there are 1,300 other people just like you.”

Equally important, more and more Chinese students educated abroad are returning home to work and start new businesses. I had lunch with a group of professors at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, or HKUST, who told me that this year they will be offering some 50 full scholarships for graduate students in science and technology. Major U.S. universities are sharply cutting back.

Tony Chan, a Hong Kong-born mathematician, recently returned from America after 20 years to become the new president of HKUST. What was his last job in America? Assistant director of the U.S. National Science Foundation in charge of the mathematical and physical sciences. He’s one of many coming home.

One of the biggest problems for China’s manufacturing and financial sectors has been finding capable middle managers. The reverse-brain drain is eliminating that problem as well.

Finally, as Liu Chao-shiuan, Taiwan’s former prime minister, pointed out to me: when Taiwan moved up the value chain from low-end, labor-intensive manufacturing to higher, value-added work, its factories moved to China or Vietnam. It lost them. In China, low-end manufacturing moves from coastal China to the less developed Western part of the country and becomes an engine for development there. In Taiwan, factories go up and out. In China, they go East to West.

“China knows it has problems,” said Liu. “But this is the first time it has a chance to actually solve them.” Taiwanese entrepreneurs now have more than 70,000 factories in China. They know the place. So I asked several Taiwanese businessmen whether they would “short” China. They vigorously shook their heads no as if I’d asked if they’d go one on one with LeBron James.

But, hey, some people said the same about Enron. Still, I’d rather bet against the euro. Shorting China today? Well, good luck with that, Mr. Chanos. Let us know how it works out for you.
 
Is China Really Growing That Fast?
Investors.com
Posted 01/11/2010 07:36 PM ET

Competitiveness: A spate of new reports show China leapfrogging other nations on its way to economic superpower status. Time to concede the global economic lead to the world's most populous nation? Hardly.

ISSchna_100112_345.png


First, let's ask the question that economists often ask but is all but ignored in the media:

Can China's data be trusted? Many economists believe the answer is no. In fact, no one knows for sure what China's GDP is. The communist government simply announces it — there is virtually no transparency.

With reported average GDP growth of 10% (even last year, during a global financial crisis, China reportedly grew at an 8% pace and is predicted to grow 9.5% this year), that's a real possibility. Ten percent growth leads to a doubling of the economy in just seven years. At 2.5%, where the U.S. is now, it takes about 29 years.

In a 2001 study, economist Thomas Rawski of the University of Pittsburgh declared that "recent growth claims defy economic logic and clash with a broad array of credible information from Chinese resources ..."

Last year, Derek Scissors, a fellow at the Heritage Foundation, likewise critiqued China's economic record-keeping — and asserted China's current economic model of high growth based on forced lending by the government is unsustainable.

"In the past, the People's Bank would report loan growth in the 15% range, supporting better-than-10% GDP growth," he wrote. Last year, China's lending surged by a third, thanks to its own $590 billion "stimulus" package. But growth was just 8%.

Sound familiar? In the late 1980s, Japan was set to own the world based on its vast expansion of lending and exports. Some see a similar Chinese bubble in the making — one that would dwarf the financial tsunami that hit Western economies after 2007.

This is not to say China's economy is not growing. It is. It's just not growing as fast as its officials say.

But the real question is — how well do individuals do in China in terms of output? Even using questionable current data and despite decades of rapid growth, the results aren't so impressive.

Per-capita GDP in China isn't even $2,500 a year, in real dollars (see chart). In the U.S., it's $42,000 a year. In short, it'll be decades, if ever, before China closes that gap
 
Problem with using Japan as a comparison is that Japan was already a developed nation with a population a tenth the size and decreasing. The land mass is also a lot smaller.

Given that Japan has a modern infra, any $$ spent on infra for stimulus means lots of useless bridges to nowhere. The Chinese, on the other hand are building a road and rail system that will meet their needs for the next 50 years.

I think to put in a 1st world infra (what China expects they will be in the next 30 years) can easily cost the Chinese tens of trillions. After all China has a land mass the size of US with 5 times the population.

It is tough to argue about China's real gdp growth given the size of the country and its high growth rate. But lets look at figures that one can easily substantiate.

China just overtook Germany as the world's largest exporter. That is a verifiable figure. To come from nowhere just 20 years ago and become the world largest exporter must reflect on lots of added industrial capacity to be able to achieve this. This is even more true given that the Chinese sell lower margin goods vs germany which means lots of quantity of stuff (lot of huge factories)

Chinese reserves of more than 2 trillion - again easily verifiable. Not easy to accumulate so much reserves without that export machine that they have built.

Internal consumption - cars (GM reporting stellar sales - figures are true since it is GM), To afford cars, it means people are being paid well, or at least well enough to afford a car. and we are not talking about the $2500 micro car they have in india but pretty decent sized mid size cars. That is a sign of affluence - per capita GDP.

Investment in infra - just take a look at the rail and road system they are building. Cannot run away - theses are 1st world roads and better than 1st world rail - maglev trains, high speed trains spanning long distances.

Ability of the country - just take a look at the Olympics - the buildings, the facilities, their sportsmen, the quality of the facilities. It does not reflect some trumped up figures like N Korea. It shows an efficient gov, Compare this to india's commonwealth games (a much smaller event) - apparently there is lots of cost overrun, corruption, and poor quality.

So even if we ignore beijing figures and just look at ancillary, we can get a very good picture that something dynamic is happening in China.
 
in the 1980s' there was so much hype over the book "Japan as N0 1" by a guy call vorgel and where is Japan now.
The present hype regarding China overtaking USA is another , China would collapse under super property bubbles just like japan did.
 
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