Can you Afford not to Migrate?

[scroobal]

Courtesy of forummer Kelingkia who dug it out from the old SBF. Note the date it was written.

a great post by ravenf4 posted on: 14/05/2004

Can you afford NOT to migrate ??

http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammy...es?msg=47359.1

Can S'poreans survive after migrating is no longer the question but the more pertinent question would be, can you afford not to migrate. The usual issues with the first question are
- the other culture is different
- we w'll be minorities there
- should be abandon our roots
- are you sure the grass is greener
- stories of returnees
I have been travelling to NY amongst other places over 14 yrs practically on a yearly basis and have seen life as it evolves in these cities. Hardly any asians reporting news then, now practically every TV channel has an asian as an anchor. The same with politicians, now you hear of asian mayors, senators, governors and these are people elected by non-asian majority. Every Ivy league college, Brit, OZ, NZ and Canadians Uni is flooded with asians with many graduating in the top grade. Remember Philip Yeo loosing his cool about scholars not returning and paying out their bond. GCT's daughter is PR of Britain albeit married to a British. She certainly has not betrayed her country, she is doing it for her family.

The fact is no one is talking about migrating to an impoverished underdeveloped country, it is about recognising a brighter future. My kids blended into the school system within a week. Some may take longer.

It is not about facing up to Ang Mohs but facing up to your race who dared to cross the ocean and make a difference for themselves. The Ang Mohs were migrants themselves in 4 of the 5 choice destinations.

It's more about calling your home your castle and not a 99 yr lease agreement. It is not about LKY forcing the lease on us but the choices and degree of freedom are limited by the lack of size, resources and the ability to withstand an economic downturn.

As the pressure mounts, crazy things start to happen, like the concentration of talent in one family, Temasek buying UOL, retiring experienced Perm Sec at 50s, relying on FTs to provide critical mess -generating runaway demand, resulting in the rip roaring economy in the late 80s, early and mid 90s.

To repeat the same phenomenon, the country needs another 2 to 3 million FTs, but can the country and its infrasture take it, can the locals take it. High value industries have moved on, shipping lines have moved on, bio tech venture is teethering and we are still grappling with the 2nd language issue. The world does not revolve around Singapore but there was a time, we thought it did and we enjoyed it.

There comes a time when highly paid scholars, administrators, journalist, colonels and Intelligence officers may not be enough to hold the social fabric together. Why take risk or stir the pot and jeopardise the high pay. Why bother starting new airlines in foreign countries when you can buy minority stakes in Virgin Atlantic and Air NZ and pretend that you an entrepreneur. How comes the CEO aged in his 30s of Virgin Blue in Australia that started from scratch make it profitable when SIA did not dare step in. How come a young upstart called Air Asia suddenly cause a change in the nation's transportation strategy to change from SIA first and CAA second to CAA first, any airline wanting to hub in S'pore second and SIA third. Why is Temasek buying UOL instead of starting from scratch. Imagine one of Singapore's foremost entrepreneur having to watch his back in his own backyard while buying a Thai bank. If a government of a developed country raided a local entity that is associated with entrepreneurship and pioneering spirit, it would be sacriligious but for Singapore it is survival as a nation.

Did it it not strike you that the risk takers are from the old guard. They were the ones who started SIA, set up EDB,DBS built JTC, created the zoo, bird park, etc. Occasionally something good comes up like the esplanade but do we have enough George Yeos around.

Why are Filipino maids who have worked in Singapore given PR and jobs in Canada via fast track. Why are British and OZ health entities recruiting FT nurses who have worked in Singapore. Why do FTs leave us and move on to 4 choice emigration countries despite being offered citizenship. How come a PRC National who worked as a nurse in Singapore for 10years , felt that she was more comfortable migrating to Melbourne, buying a home and a Toyota Camry

Why did LKY out of the blue suggest merger with Malaysia in the late 90s and why in the first place did he cry when Tunku kicked us out in 65. Ever wondered why Malaysians who were born studied,grew up and now work with you in Singapore don't want to give up their citizenship. Has this got anything to do with the perception of long term survival.

Why is GCT, whose popularity is high leaving in his prime. The strain must be tremendous.

It is not about quitting or betraying your country. It is about recognising the world is a global place and the opportunities it offers. It is about looking after your family first. Can you afford to provide your kids the best education possible. Can you afford to send them to the best boarding school while in Singapore. Can you afford to spend quality time whilst ferrying your kids for 2nd language tuition. Can you afford to give them the best quality of life that you can possibly achieve. Will the move help you achieve these things.

Don't get swayed about returnees and their negative stories in the local press. Ever read a story about a successful emigrant from Singapore or the wonderful life that retirees who are predominently civil servants are enjoying? Do you honestly believe that none had made it and all had failed.

Ever heard about non-Singaporean asians succeeding in these 5 choice countries.

Finally it is not about food, culture and your roots. 85% of Singaporeans are of migrant stock and their original roots are everywhere. Our forefathers made a difference by making the journey to Singapore and we benefitted from it. We in turn contributed our share via taxes, NS and living a moral and ethical life. 80 years ago, you worked for the company that your father worked in. 30 years ago, you worked for the one company till you retired. Now people move from company to company to upgrade themselves and eke out a future for their family. Even if you wanted to stay, change in business variables will force companies to retrench and relocate. Many years ago, if you worked in Jurong, you stayed in Jurong. Is it the same now.

Complacency, inertia and ignorance are the bane of mankind. High pay maybe the fourth.

 

[ps07857]

I like what you said, but I am sure the PAP will ask you, "If everyone does this for him/herself? Where does it lead in terms of development of Singpaore?"
Philip Yeo (or was it George Yeo... one of those anyways) once mentioned after the PSC scholar bond breaking saga (Hector Yee who currently works for Google in the USA), "If I have 100 scholar that goes overseas, and the last scholar decides not to return, it will make a mockery of the rest of crew that returned obediently..."
Teo Chee Hean also once famously quoted (after the Melvin Tan Esplanade pianist saga), "If every Singaporean decides to pursue what is best for himself and make the priorities of the nation as secondary, who will cry for Singapore in the time of need? Will there still be a Singapore left?"
I guess my point is that it is a universal right for mankind to seek a better life for him/herself and also their descendants, but only in Singapore does the national interest over rule the people's interest. Try talking to residents whose property was unfairly "seized and compensated" (Lorong Chuan area residents whose land overlapped onto the drawing charts of MRT architects) and you will understand how little Singaporean lives are in the eyes of the govt.
Rightfully or not? That is all very subjective depending on who you talk to.

 

[littlefish]

I like what you said, but I am sure the PAP will ask you, "If everyone does this for him/herself? Where does it lead in terms of development of Singpaore?"

You mean the elites are not looking out for themselves first and foremost? That is indeed news to me. If they are not, why do they need to pay themselves million dollar salaries?

It wouldn't be so bad if the State at least looks after you when you are no longer able to contribute to the economy but this is simply not the case in SG. Instead this burden is borne mainly by your children. Better pray that your children can earn big bucks or at least marry into rich families. It wasn't so bad years ago when people have more kids to share the burden but with the two-child policy, good luck to those hoping to depend on their children in their old age.

For those hung up with "Asian Values", please spare me your lecture about how looking after your parents is not a burden. It is undeniable that taking care of your parents exact a toll from you, whether you want to call it a burden or not.

 

[i_am_belle]

It wasn't so bad years ago when people have more kids to share the burden but with the two-child policy, good luck to those hoping to depend on their children in their old age.

also, in the past, there was such a thing called an 'iron rice bowl' ... there were good civil service jobs that did not pay much but were stable like the Div III & IV jobs ... now these jobs are either contracted out at measely salaries without medical benefits, or given to foreign workers ...

bank deposit rates werent high but were ok, acceptable ... our money & savings could grow ... now ? bank deposit rates keep heading south ... if < $500 inside kenna 'fine' ... CPF cannot take out ...

aiya, terrible times ahead ... :(

 

[tonychat]

That is 2004. Now, the title should be .. do you have the balls to migrate.

 

[iamtalkinglah]

Since Sg like to grant PR easily to others, why not we go and be PR of an Ang Mo country & upgrade?

 

[tonychat]

Since Sg like to grant PR easily to others, why not we go and be PR of an Ang Mo country & upgrade?

Well, you got to have balls to do that and according to my experience with sinkies, they dun have any.

 

[bluewolf]

I like what you said, but I am sure the PAP will ask you, "If everyone does this for him/herself? Where does it lead in terms of development of Singpaore?"
Philip Yeo (or was it George Yeo... one of those anyways) once mentioned after the PSC scholar bond breaking saga (Hector Yee who currently works for Google in the USA), "If I have 100 scholar that goes overseas, and the last scholar decides not to return, it will make a mockery of the rest of crew that returned obediently..."
Teo Chee Hean also once famously quoted (after the Melvin Tan Esplanade pianist saga), "If every Singaporean decides to pursue what is best for himself and make the priorities of the nation as secondary, who will cry for Singapore in the time of need? Will there still be a Singapore left?"
I guess my point is that it is a universal right for mankind to seek a better life for him/herself and also their descendants, but only in Singapore does the national interest over rule the people's interest. Try talking to residents whose property was unfairly "seized and compensated" (Lorong Chuan area residents whose land overlapped onto the drawing charts of MRT architects) and you will understand how little Singaporean lives are in the eyes of the govt.
Rightfully or not? That is all very subjective depending on who you talk to.

Then you shall reply, "Will the government look out for me if I do not look out for myself ?"

Philiip Yeo can say what he likes, but look at the current policy for foreigners on Singapore scholarship. They are not really bothered if these foreigners stayed and serve their bond or not. They don't even have a proper system to track them. Now that, is a mockery of the Singapore people by wasting our money. PY should look at the hundreds of foreign students that left after completing their studies here on government money.

Teo should get a grip on reality. Did Singapore put the interest of its people in first place ? How do you expect people to put their country first when the country view foreigners as more important than its own citizens ?

Anyway, these people are like ostriches. They stick their head in the sand whenever there's a problem. Foreigners ain't idiots you know, they know that they'll get the same treatment if they convert to citizenship. So, the only reason why they'll ever become Singapore citizens, is to get out of Singapore, eventually. May sound contradictory, but it makes perfect sense.

 

[iamtalkinglah]

if you cannot change yourself...

you can try to change the system...

One simple solution!

If you cannot migrate, VOTE PAP OUT!!

I do respect you for your perseverance and sales pitch!

 

[iamtalkinglah]

I like what you said, but I am sure the PAP will ask you, "If everyone does this for him/herself? Where does it lead in terms of development of Singpaore?"
Philip Yeo (or was it George Yeo... one of those anyways) once mentioned after the PSC scholar bond breaking saga (Hector Yee who currently works for Google in the USA), "If I have 100 scholar that goes overseas, and the last scholar decides not to return, it will make a mockery of the rest of crew that returned obediently..."
Teo Chee Hean also once famously quoted (after the Melvin Tan Esplanade pianist saga), "If every Singaporean decides to pursue what is best for himself and make the priorities of the nation as secondary, who will cry for Singapore in the time of need? Will there still be a Singapore left?"
I guess my point is that it is a universal right for mankind to seek a better life for him/herself and also their descendants, but only in Singapore does the national interest over rule the people's interest. Try talking to residents whose property was unfairly "seized and compensated" (Lorong Chuan area residents whose land overlapped onto the drawing charts of MRT architects) and you will understand how little Singaporean lives are in the eyes of the govt.
Rightfully or not? That is all very subjective depending on who you talk to.

If he asks me, I will reply - I have always put national interest over my self interest because if there’s no country, there’s no home. But shouldn’t national interest equate to the people’s interest? If you want Singaporeans to suffer for national interest which eventually is to the benefit of its people, then why can’t I see the light at the end of the tunnel? It seems like all the current problems are not to the benefit of the normal Singaporeans. The poor seems to be getting poorer.
If it is so easy to be a PR in Singapore, and their benefits are somewhat on par with Singaporeans then what’s the use of being a Singaporean?

 

[iamtalkinglah]

Well, you got to have balls to do that and according to my experience with sinkies, they dun have any.

Most people here do love their country. It's not about whether they have balls or not.

As I have said, it is developed Ang Mo country not undeveloped lower class country like Thailand.

 

[iamtalkinglah]

Dun yah yah and look down on Thailand...

they made the best dao sha peng i have ever tasted in my entire life!!

YUMMY!! Wait till i try their original and really spicy tom yum gong...hehe

No ma, PRC upgrade come to Sg then we Singaporeans must upgrade and go developed country ma. Cannot lose out to PRC. Easy way out is to go Thailand, M'sia, Cambodia, Burma, etc...

 

[yellow people]

Well, you got to have balls to do that and according to my experience with sinkies, they dun have any.

Thai pimp loser! How does it feels to be assed by me again? Shiok? What are you going to do about it? So far you don't have the balls to ass me back.

 

[ps07857]

At the end of the day, the MIW always want to have the final say and to seem like the know what they are talking about. I am sure everyone remembers the NDP Rally Speech of 2002. Back then, our former PM Goh Chok Tong famously quoted and gave a convincing speech about "quitters vs stayers". Everyone remember that? Guess what, a few weeks later, it was revealed that his own daughter had migrated to the UK! It is this kind of behaviour that irks me a lot. Our leader calling people who migrated as "quitters" but I cannot see him saying that to his own daughter!!!
The bottom line is that the PAP was afraid that our population will dwindle but more importantly, the people that do migrate overseas take their CPF Savings with them.... decreasing the pool of money that our GIC can use to invest.
The next PM...LHL... as everyone can guess what he did to our immigration policy...

 

[eatshitndie]

At the end of the day, the MIW always want to have the final say and to seem like the know what they are talking about. I am sure everyone remembers the NDP Rally Speech of 2002. Back then, our former PM Goh Chok Tong famously quoted and gave a convincing speech about "quitters vs stayers". Everyone remember that? Guess what, a few weeks later, it was revealed that his own daughter had migrated to the UK! It is this kind of behaviour that irks me a lot. Our leader calling people who migrated as "quitters" but I cannot see him saying that to his own daughter!!!
The bottom line is that the PAP was afraid that our population will dwindle but more importantly, the people that do migrate overseas take their CPF Savings with them.... decreasing the pool of money that our GIC can use to invest.
The next PM...LHL... as everyone can guess what he did to our immigration policy...

their job is really easy. at the 11th hour, they scour this website and steal ideas and recommendations (in the form of complaints) from here.

 

[ps07857]

honestly, I am quite-very sure that someone from the govt is monitoring this website. Otherwise, why are there changes not long after some public outcries over certain issues (for instance Govt decreasing the benefits of PR after Zhang Yuan Yuan openly made them a mockery, and also the pricing of HDB flats). It is quite scary at times because you never know if anything taken off this website can be used to bite you in your back (like how Gopalan Nair's words became evidence in court). :o

 

[Ash007]

I thought its just public outcry that is causing this? Whats written here are probably reflections of what the general population is saying as well. Even if its true, it does show the value of this forum. Much better then the "Speakers corner". If only we can get some ministers/PaPees/YPAP to come in here to have some decent debate.

 

[ps07857]

but honestly, where are the public outcry. Everyday in the MRT, I can feel the tension and discomfort of the riders but I don't see or hear anyone openly complain about anything at all. I guess my point is that the only way Singaporeans can vent is via the Internet and there are not too many "hot" sites like this forum or temasek review or online citizen that we can openly say what we want to say.
correct me if I am wrong, maybe I missed something....

 

[Ash007]

You are right, I haven't been back in Singapore for a very long time. I don't even think people will recognise me as Sinkie anymore. I was hopping that things have changed and that there are more people that voice out their displeasure to the government. The last time I took the MRT, I have not felt the tension and discomfort you mentioned. Perhaps things have changed for the worst since I left.

but honestly, where are the public outcry. Everyday in the MRT, I can feel the tension and discomfort of the riders but I don't see or hear anyone openly complain about anything at all. I guess my point is that the only way Singaporeans can vent is via the Internet and there are not too many "hot" sites like this forum or temasek review or online citizen that we can openly say what we want to say.
correct me if I am wrong, maybe I missed something....

 

[pc2009]

For PAP miw, party interest first or national interests first?